US economy thread (7 Viewers)

[Grahamburn]

Still think it’s a tale of two economies. The top 20% or so are doing very well, house prices are up, stock prices are up, inflation doesn’t affect them as much because it’s such a small percentage of their spending. The bottom 40% are flat out struggling or worse. That middle 40% are a case by case basis depending on job, debt load, whether you own your home etc.

For sure but I think those percentages are way off. The top 20% have always done well. The top 20% can't smash through new records for travel, concerts, ballpark tickets, restaurant spend, iphones, and basically every other non-essential item in existence. That requires the combined work of the entire populace.

Yes it blows for the bottom 20%, no doubt. But this is America and that's always the case, it's the system. Though I do still contend that we've all (including the bottom percentile) become accustomed to having more to the point where we spend on non-essential luxuries that people in the same socio-economic class of prior generations would have never even considered.

People under 25 spent over 40% as much on travel as boomers last year, which is an insanely high amount of spend for people that haven't even come close to entering their prime earning years yet. Anecdotally my sister in law is a single mom, kindergarten teacher that has seen Taylor Swift 4 times in the last few years, one of them in Rio as part of a big international trip. I honestly have no idea how she can afford that, but she's gonna spend on it anyway.

I linked to a podcast earlier, and an analyst was discussing the fortunes of Uber/Lyft. They were discussing it in terms of their outlook, but he mentioned offhand that their revenue continues to grow. I looked it up, Uber is up 16% from '22 to '23.

Anyhow, it seems to me that Uber may be a pretty decent measure on middle America economy.

It's everywhere, it's a luxury that a lot of people use, no one really needs, and Uber Eats and Uber rides would be among the first things many people wI ageee but with a bit of a caveat. The

Still think it’s a tale of two economies. The top 20% or so are doing very well, house prices are up, stock prices are up, inflation doesn’t affect them as much because it’s such a small percentage of their spending. The bottom 40% are flat out struggling or worse. That middle 40% are a case by case basis depending on job, debt load, whether you own your home etc.

For sure but I think those percentages are way off. The top 20% have always done well. The top 20% can't smash through new records for travel, concerts, ballpark tickets, restaurant spend, iphones, and basically every other non-essential item in existence. That requires the combined work of the entire populace.

Yes it blows for the bottom 20%, no doubt. But this is America and that's always the case, it's the system. Though I do still contend that we've all (including the bottom percentile) become accustomed to having more to the point where we spend on non-essential luxuries that people in the same socio-economic class of prior generations would have never even considered.

People under 25 spent over 40% as much on travel as boomers last year, which is an insanely high amount of spend for people that haven't even come close to entering their prime earning years yet. Anecdotally my sister in law is a single mom, kindergarten teacher that has seen Taylor Swift 4 times in the last few years, one of them in Rio as part of a big international trip. I honestly have no idea how she can afford that, but she's gonna spend on it anyway.

I linked to a podcast earlier, and an analyst was discussing the fortunes of Uber/Lyft. They were discussing it in terms of their outlook, but he mentioned offhand that their revenue continues to grow. I looked it up, Uber is up 16% from '22 to '23.

Anyhow, it seems to me that Uber may be a pretty decent measure on middle America economy.

It's everywhere, it's a luxury that a lot of people use, no one really needs, and Uber Eats and Uber rides would be among the first things many people would give up. Just a thought

I agree with a lot of this but with a caveat.
I’ve ubered once in my life. I have the Ap but never used it personally (wife’s account one time). I’ve never used Uber eats. If I want something I go pick it up.
They said, my 27 year old daughter ( who makes more than me) uses both Uber and Uber eats/door dash multiple times per week. My eldest son uses each a few times a month and my 19 year old users Uber eats 2-3/month
I can well afford it but I’m cheap. And old. With younger generation I think this is a stickier service and it will take a lot of economic shock for it to be affected. That to me will make it a more difficult barometer of the economy. Kids love it. They’ll give up other things before having someone bring food to their door. I’d need to be unbelievably rich, or disabled to use this service. It’s a mindset.

I would say we all blew our money on dumb stuff when we were kids. Me? CDs. I’d go to Best Buy and drop my entire paycheck on CDs.

I was never in debt though. And I think a lot of these kids are going straight into bad debt very early in their lives.

 

[Battersbox]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

what's the reckoning? honest question as i don't understand the insurance biz even a little.

I have no idea. My gut tells me something has to give. I'm actually quite surprised there hasn't been a greater push from politicians going after the industry. Seems like low-hanging fruit if you're running for office.

 

[eoMMan]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

what's the reckoning? honest question as i don't understand the insurance biz even a little.

I have no idea. My gut tells me something has to give. I'm actually quite surprised there hasn't been a greater push from politicians going after the industry. Seems like low-hanging fruit if you're running for office.

Depends from state to state but the reasoning for high insurance costs isn’t always the insurance companies simply overcharging and making more profit. In Florida, for example, litigation/lawsuits is a huge reason why auto/home insurance is so expensive (aside from catastrophic weather events of course).

 

[Grahamburn]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

what's the reckoning? honest question as i don't understand the insurance biz even a little.

I have no idea. My gut tells me something has to give. I'm actually quite surprised there hasn't been a greater push from politicians going after the industry. Seems like low-hanging fruit if you're running for office.

Depends from state to state but the reasoning for high insurance costs isn’t always the insurance companies simply overcharging and making more profit. In Florida, for example, litigation/lawsuits is a huge reason why auto/home insurance is so expensive (aside from catastrophic weather events of course).

Florida needs a completely different system.

 

[BrutalPenguin]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

what's the reckoning? honest question as i don't understand the insurance biz even a little.

I have no idea. My gut tells me something has to give. I'm actually quite surprised there hasn't been a greater push from politicians going after the industry. Seems like low-hanging fruit if you're running for office.

The politicians have been the cause. It's doubtful that they'll be the solution.

 

[bcat01]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

Insurance rates will go down when the constant weather events stop and the price of fixing cars goes down. Also lawsuits stop.

 

[Grahamburn]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

Insurance rates will go down when the constant weather events stop and the price of fixing cars goes down. Also lawsuits stop.

So, never?

 

[Battersbox]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

Insurance rates will go down when the constant weather events stop and the price of fixing cars goes down. Also lawsuits stop.

Rates have surged well past the rate of increased weather events and auto repair inflation. By quite a large margin.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

what's the reckoning? honest question as i don't understand the insurance biz even a little.

I have no idea. My gut tells me something has to give. I'm actually quite surprised there hasn't been a greater push from politicians going after the industry. Seems like low-hanging fruit if you're running for office.

The politicians have been the cause. It's doubtful that they'll be the solution.

That would imply relying on a private solution. What is it?

 

[BrutalPenguin]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

what's the reckoning? honest question as i don't understand the insurance biz even a little.

I have no idea. My gut tells me something has to give. I'm actually quite surprised there hasn't been a greater push from politicians going after the industry. Seems like low-hanging fruit if you're running for office.

The politicians have been the cause. It's doubtful that they'll be the solution.

That would imply relying on a private solution. What is it?

No, it relys on politicians not decriminalizing car theft. Or propety theft. Both of which have happened here in Colorado.

 

[BrutalPenguin]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

what's the reckoning? honest question as i don't understand the insurance biz even a little.

I have no idea. My gut tells me something has to give. I'm actually quite surprised there hasn't been a greater push from politicians going after the industry. Seems like low-hanging fruit if you're running for office.

The politicians have been the cause. It's doubtful that they'll be the solution.

That would imply relying on a private solution. What is it?

No, it relys on politicians not decriminalizing car theft. Or propety theft. Both of which have happened here in Colorado.

But to keep from getting a timeout, I'm going to refrain from more discussion here

 

[culdeus]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

Insurance rates will go down when the constant weather events stop and the price of fixing cars goes down. Also lawsuits stop.

Rates have surged well past the rate of increased weather events and auto repair inflation. By quite a large margin.

Source for this? I mean we have insurance bros in other threads saying the opposite

 

[GreenNGold]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

what's the reckoning? honest question as i don't understand the insurance biz even a little.

I have no idea. My gut tells me something has to give. I'm actually quite surprised there hasn't been a greater push from politicians going after the industry. Seems like low-hanging fruit if you're running for office.

I know this won't work for everyone, but since my car is paid off I'm just dropping the collision part of my insurance, I'm going to save the difference and consider myself self-insured going forward. The amount I have spent and would continue to spend on insurance compared to the amount I'd ever have to pay just doesn't make sense over the long-run. I'm keeping liability, comprehensive, and underinsured motorist coverage as those seem cheap enough to pay off if I ever needed them, as well as more likely to be needed than collision, as I'm confident enough I'm not going to cause a crash I'm at fault for.

Also, I've mostly stayed out of this thread due to the title, but the economy has been, is, and will continue to be really good (overall).

 

[Sand]

Still think it’s a tale of two economies. The top 20% or so are doing very well, house prices are up, stock prices are up, inflation doesn’t affect them as much because it’s such a small percentage of their spending. The bottom 40% are flat out struggling or worse. That middle 40% are a case by case basis depending on job, debt load, whether you own your home etc.

For sure but I think those percentages are way off. The top 20% have always done well. The top 20% can't smash through new records for travel, concerts, ballpark tickets, restaurant spend, iphones, and basically every other non-essential item in existence. That requires the combined work of the entire populace.

Yes it blows for the bottom 20%, no doubt. But this is America and that's always the case, it's the system. Though I do still contend that we've all (including the bottom percentile) become accustomed to having more to the point where we spend on non-essential luxuries that people in the same socio-economic class of prior generations would have never even considered.

People under 25 spent over 40% as much on travel as boomers last year, which is an insanely high amount of spend for people that haven't even come close to entering their prime earning years yet. Anecdotally my sister in law is a single mom, kindergarten teacher that has seen Taylor Swift 4 times in the last few years, one of them in Rio as part of a big international trip. I honestly have no idea how she can afford that, but she's gonna spend on it anyway.

She can’t afford it. She put it on a credit card. But, who cares? Right?

At what point do these credit card companies fold when their customers default? I don’t know. They’re pretty flush. But, it’s coming, eventually.

It's never coming. They make so much money off the interest they can withstand a ton of bad debt. Right now, with the economy humming along, the average consumer has a $6,300 balance. Average - that's kind of crazy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/08/credit-card-debt-and-delinquencies-are-on-the-rise-reports-finds.html

 

[The Z Machine]

savvy customers can easily get 10-20% off their services via gift cards.

Hookers take gift cards???

 

[DA RAIDERS]

It's never coming. They make so much money off the interest they can withstand a ton of bad debt. Right now, with the economy humming along, the average consumer has a $6,300 balance. Average - that's kind of crazy.

eliminate those that pay in full, and I’d bet it’s well north of 10k

 

[Mitchie]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

I've heard insurance rates are up quite a bit so not doubting you but where do you live? Seems like this must vary quite a bit based on state/region. My home insurance was up a bit but my car insurance actually went down slightly.

 

[Grahamburn]

Still think it’s a tale of two economies. The top 20% or so are doing very well, house prices are up, stock prices are up, inflation doesn’t affect them as much because it’s such a small percentage of their spending. The bottom 40% are flat out struggling or worse. That middle 40% are a case by case basis depending on job, debt load, whether you own your home etc.

For sure but I think those percentages are way off. The top 20% have always done well. The top 20% can't smash through new records for travel, concerts, ballpark tickets, restaurant spend, iphones, and basically every other non-essential item in existence. That requires the combined work of the entire populace.

Yes it blows for the bottom 20%, no doubt. But this is America and that's always the case, it's the system. Though I do still contend that we've all (including the bottom percentile) become accustomed to having more to the point where we spend on non-essential luxuries that people in the same socio-economic class of prior generations would have never even considered.

People under 25 spent over 40% as much on travel as boomers last year, which is an insanely high amount of spend for people that haven't even come close to entering their prime earning years yet. Anecdotally my sister in law is a single mom, kindergarten teacher that has seen Taylor Swift 4 times in the last few years, one of them in Rio as part of a big international trip. I honestly have no idea how she can afford that, but she's gonna spend on it anyway.

She can’t afford it. She put it on a credit card. But, who cares? Right?

At what point do these credit card companies fold when their customers default? I don’t know. They’re pretty flush. But, it’s coming, eventually.

It's never coming. They make so much money off the interest they can withstand a ton of bad debt. Right now, with the economy humming along, the average consumer has a $6,300 balance. Average - that's kind of crazy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/08/credit-card-debt-and-delinquencies-are-on-the-rise-reports-finds.html

Too big to fail anyway.

 

[culdeus]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

I've heard insurance rates are up quite a bit so not doubting you but where do you live? Seems like this must vary quite a bit based on state/region. My home insurance was up a bit but my car insurance actually went down slightly.

It's very region dependent. Anywhere near weather risk or fire risk is up bigly.

Car rates are up in most cities mostly because cars are more expensive.

There's a reason the government took over flood insurance. They may have to take over wildfire and wind/hail also if things keep going.

 

[Grahamburn]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

I've heard insurance rates are up quite a bit so not doubting you but where do you live? Seems like this must vary quite a bit based on state/region. My home insurance was up a bit but my car insurance actually went down slightly.

It's very region dependent. Anywhere near weather risk or fire risk is up bigly.

Car rates are up in most cities mostly because cars are more expensive.

There's a reason the government took over flood insurance. They may have to take over wildfire and wind/hail also if things keep going.

Bunch of homes still under water in Florida right now.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

I've heard insurance rates are up quite a bit so not doubting you but where do you live? Seems like this must vary quite a bit based on state/region. My home insurance was up a bit but my car insurance actually went down slightly.

Our home insurance has about doubled over the last few years. I'm in the upper Midwest, with no hurricanes, fires, or other destructive weather events to worry about, so it isn't that. I assume it's the cost of building supplies but I don't honestly know.

 

[Battersbox]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

Insurance rates will go down when the constant weather events stop and the price of fixing cars goes down. Also lawsuits stop.

Rates have surged well past the rate of increased weather events and auto repair inflation. By quite a large margin.

Source for this? I mean we have insurance bros in other threads saying the opposite

No source, just my own experience. If I take my car in to be repaired, it doesn't cost 80% more than it did a few years ago. My auto rates are up 80%. And my area hasn't seen any natural disasters and likely won't outside of wind/hail possibly (northern Illinois). Everyone I know has seen their homeowners insurance go up 30-40% in just the past year...that's on top of the increases for the few years prior to that.

I know the standard line from the insurance industry is simply that 'things cost more to fix & replace'. I'm positing that it's partly b.s. I think there is fertile ground for some hungry pols to go after the industry for possible collusion. And no, I don't have proof they're colluding, but it sure feels like it. The market feels broken in this industry.

Do we really need to see 35 Progressive/Geico/Allstate/State Farm/Nationwide etc. commercials every time we watch a game? Seems there should be an avenue for a company to undercut these companies by NOT spending billions on needless advertising and passing the savings into their rates.

 

[AAABatteries]

And then some people are happy to ruin to their credit score for free money...

As someone who is admittedly a financial idiot - is this a bad thing? I’ve never really understood the need for a great credit score if you already own a home and don’t plan on using credit to purchase things.

 

[NutterButter]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

I've heard insurance rates are up quite a bit so not doubting you but where do you live? Seems like this must vary quite a bit based on state/region. My home insurance was up a bit but my car insurance actually went down slightly.

Same. Home insurance up about 30% over the last 4 years but car insurance is down slightly here in NJ. I'm actually more surprised about the car insurance being down than the home insurance being up.

 

[bcat01]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

Insurance rates will go down when the constant weather events stop and the price of fixing cars goes down. Also lawsuits stop.

Rates have surged well past the rate of increased weather events and auto repair inflation. By quite a large margin.

Source for this? I mean we have insurance bros in other threads saying the opposite

No source, just my own experience. If I take my car in to be repaired, it doesn't cost 80% more than it did a few years ago. My auto rates are up 80%. And my area hasn't seen any natural disasters and likely won't outside of wind/hail possibly (northern Illinois). Everyone I know has seen their homeowners insurance go up 30-40% in just the past year...that's on top of the increases for the few years prior to that.

I know the standard line from the insurance industry is simply that 'things cost more to fix & replace'. I'm positing that it's partly b.s. I think there is fertile ground for some hungry pols to go after the industry for possible collusion. And no, I don't have proof they're colluding, but it sure feels like it. The market feels broken in this industry.

Do we really need to see 35 Progressive/Geico/Allstate/State Farm/Nationwide etc. commercials every time we watch a game? Seems there should be an avenue for a company to undercut these companies by NOT spending billions on needless advertising and passing the savings into their rates.

Which insurance company?

 

[Battersbox]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

Insurance rates will go down when the constant weather events stop and the price of fixing cars goes down. Also lawsuits stop.

Rates have surged well past the rate of increased weather events and auto repair inflation. By quite a large margin.

Source for this? I mean we have insurance bros in other threads saying the opposite

No source, just my own experience. If I take my car in to be repaired, it doesn't cost 80% more than it did a few years ago. My auto rates are up 80%. And my area hasn't seen any natural disasters and likely won't outside of wind/hail possibly (northern Illinois). Everyone I know has seen their homeowners insurance go up 30-40% in just the past year...that's on top of the increases for the few years prior to that.

I know the standard line from the insurance industry is simply that 'things cost more to fix & replace'. I'm positing that it's partly b.s. I think there is fertile ground for some hungry pols to go after the industry for possible collusion. And no, I don't have proof they're colluding, but it sure feels like it. The market feels broken in this industry.

Do we really need to see 35 Progressive/Geico/Allstate/State Farm/Nationwide etc. commercials every time we watch a game? Seems there should be an avenue for a company to undercut these companies by NOT spending billions on needless advertising and passing the savings into their rates.

Which insurance company?

Over the past few years a combo of Allstate, Farmers, and Geico. It's a given in my circle that you have to jump around to try to hold the line as much as possible. Especially with homeowners insurance.

 

[Buckna]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

I've heard insurance rates are up quite a bit so not doubting you but where do you live? Seems like this must vary quite a bit based on state/region. My home insurance was up a bit but my car insurance actually went down slightly.

Our home insurance has about doubled over the last few years. I'm in the upper Midwest, with no hurricanes, fires, or other destructive weather events to worry about, so it isn't that. I assume it's the cost of building supplies but I don't honestly know.

I believe the standard insurance line is that those areas not experiencing extreme weather are subsidizing those areas that do. Whether one believes that or not…

I know in my neck of the woods (Colorado) homeowners has gone nuts and reasons pointed to are wildfires and hail storms. If the roof on your house is 15 years old or more, many carriers will outright refuse to insure you. I went with Allstate on my new house and two months later they informed me they were cancelling my coverage because a) my roof turned 15 even though it has no hail damage, (b) i have a couple of very tall trees near one side of the house (I live in a freaking forest!) Had to scramble to find coverage, most of the majors refused to insure for the same reasons. Had to go with some company i never heard of for twice what i was paying before. Honestly considering replacing the roof in the next year just to save a few thousand on homeowners every year.

 

[bcat01]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

Insurance rates will go down when the constant weather events stop and the price of fixing cars goes down. Also lawsuits stop.

Rates have surged well past the rate of increased weather events and auto repair inflation. By quite a large margin.

Source for this? I mean we have insurance bros in other threads saying the opposite

No source, just my own experience. If I take my car in to be repaired, it doesn't cost 80% more than it did a few years ago. My auto rates are up 80%. And my area hasn't seen any natural disasters and likely won't outside of wind/hail possibly (northern Illinois). Everyone I know has seen their homeowners insurance go up 30-40% in just the past year...that's on top of the increases for the few years prior to that.

I know the standard line from the insurance industry is simply that 'things cost more to fix & replace'. I'm positing that it's partly b.s. I think there is fertile ground for some hungry pols to go after the industry for possible collusion. And no, I don't have proof they're colluding, but it sure feels like it. The market feels broken in this industry.

Do we really need to see 35 Progressive/Geico/Allstate/State Farm/Nationwide etc. commercials every time we watch a game? Seems there should be an avenue for a company to undercut these companies by NOT spending billions on needless advertising and passing the savings into their rates.

Which insurance company?

Over the past few years a combo of Allstate, Farmers, and Geico. It's a given in my circle that you have to jump around to try to hold the line as much as possible. Especially with homeowners insurance.

Farmers and Nationwide have had Underwriting losses the last 4 years. Allstate the past 2 years. Geico lost in 2022.

 

[bcat01]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

I've heard insurance rates are up quite a bit so not doubting you but where do you live? Seems like this must vary quite a bit based on state/region. My home insurance was up a bit but my car insurance actually went down slightly.

Our home insurance has about doubled over the last few years. I'm in the upper Midwest, with no hurricanes, fires, or other destructive weather events to worry about, so it isn't that. I assume it's the cost of building supplies but I don't honestly know.

I believe the standard insurance line is that those areas not experiencing extreme weather are subsidizing those areas that do. Whether one believes that or not…

I know in my neck of the woods (Colorado) homeowners has gone nuts and reasons pointed to are wildfires and hail storms. If the roof on your house is 15 years old or more, many carriers will outright refuse to insure you. I went with Allstate on my new house and two months later they informed me they were cancelling my coverage because a) my roof turned 15 even though it has no hail damage, (b) i have a couple of very tall trees near one side of the house (I live in a freaking forest!) Had to scramble to find coverage, most of the majors refused to insure for the same reasons. Had to go with some company i never heard of for twice what i was paying before. Honestly considering replacing the roof in the next year just to save a few thousand on homeowners every year.

We pulled out of Colorado due to weather and fires. We never made a dime.

 

[Battersbox]

Regarding inflation, I still think a reckoning must come for the insurance industry. Prices for both home and auto are absolutely out of control for much, or even most, of the country.

My homeowners insurance is up 100% in two years (no claims), and my auto insurance for my family is up 80% (no claims). This is unsustainable and affects even the top 10% of earners because we're talking about several hundred dollars a month combined for most folks. For me it's over $1k/month now where it was very recently sub $500/month.
Grocery inflation isn't always super painful for the well-to-do, but I think insurance inflation is more keenly felt even amongst the highest earners.

Insurance rates will go down when the constant weather events stop and the price of fixing cars goes down. Also lawsuits stop.

Rates have surged well past the rate of increased weather events and auto repair inflation. By quite a large margin.

Source for this? I mean we have insurance bros in other threads saying the opposite

No source, just my own experience. If I take my car in to be repaired, it doesn't cost 80% more than it did a few years ago. My auto rates are up 80%. And my area hasn't seen any natural disasters and likely won't outside of wind/hail possibly (northern Illinois). Everyone I know has seen their homeowners insurance go up 30-40% in just the past year...that's on top of the increases for the few years prior to that.

I know the standard line from the insurance industry is simply that 'things cost more to fix & replace'. I'm positing that it's partly b.s. I think there is fertile ground for some hungry pols to go after the industry for possible collusion. And no, I don't have proof they're colluding, but it sure feels like it. The market feels broken in this industry.

Do we really need to see 35 Progressive/Geico/Allstate/State Farm/Nationwide etc. commercials every time we watch a game? Seems there should be an avenue for a company to undercut these companies by NOT spending billions on needless advertising and passing the savings into their rates.

Which insurance company?

Over the past few years a combo of Allstate, Farmers, and Geico. It's a given in my circle that you have to jump around to try to hold the line as much as possible. Especially with homeowners insurance.

Farmers and Nationwide have had Underwriting losses the last 4 years. Allstate the past 2 years. Geico lost in 2022.

I hear you. I'm aware of their positions and what they've said. But there are 'earnings' and there are 'earnings'.

It's quite interesting that Allstate stock is up 250% since the March 2020 lows, which dovetails pretty closely with these sky high rate increases. And taking out the oversold conditions of march 2020, the stock is still up nearly 50% since mid-2021. They're doing just fine.

I'm simply stating there should be an opportunity in this industry. There should be regional carriers who can offer coverage to Midwesterners who don't have to cover the losses of coastal areas and their hurricane risks. I don't know if there are too many barriers to entry, but there shouldn't be.

 

[Terminalxylem]

And then some people are happy to ruin to their credit score for free money...

As someone who is admittedly a financial idiot - is this a bad thing? I’ve never really understood the need for a great credit score if you already own a home and don’t plan on using credit to purchase things.

I agree with you, but think the percentage of people who own their home outright and never use credit for big purchases is very small.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Haves and have nots imo.

The haves are spending like crazy and keep driving a prices up because they can, creating a larger chasm between the have nots.

:notanoriginaltake:

 

[beer 30]

Along with the Scottsdale Ladies of the Night Economic Indicator I reported on earlier, I checked the In-N-Out Economic Indicator today on my drive from PDX back to Eugene as I passed Keizer, OR. Had to be at least 100 cars in the two lanes for the drive through (you can see it from I-5) at 2:30 in the afternoon. So while I didn't get to have my Double Double Protein style, I'd say the consumer is strong to quite strong in small town Oregon.

This "man on the street reporting" schtick is solid

 

[culdeus]

CNBC thoughts on the topics

Why Car Insurance Rates Are Skyrocketing In The U.S.

Car insurance has gotten expensive. In the U.S. the average annual premium for full coverage car insurance rose 26% to $2,543 compared to last year, accordin...

youtu.be

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[Instinctive]

Some of the home insurance bits are also home value and rebuild costs going way up. Which is pretty logical.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

We pulled out of Colorado due to weather and fires. We never made a dime.

Are you an Insurance Guy?

I'm curious about the argument that people who live in a "safe" areas (to speak very loosely) are subsidizing people in hurricane-prone, fire-prone, wind-prone etc. areas. How accurate is that? I'm asking because I genuinely don't know how "national" the market for homeowners insurance is. I always sort of assumed that risk pricing was more regional/local but I could easily be wrong about that. Obviously I understand that the insurance industry relies on non-claimants subsidizing claimants.

 

[Desert_Power]

savvy customers can easily get 10-20% off their services via gift cards.

Hookers take gift cards???

Modern problems require modern solutions.

 

[massraider]

Bunch of homes still under water in Florida right now.

I saw some video from Sarasota that was really really bad.

CNBC thoughts on the topics

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

4:14 of that video lists 12 states that have seen average rate more than double. Wow.

New Hampshire on that list seems odd.

 

[Raging weasel]

And then some people are happy to ruin to their credit score for free money...

As someone who is admittedly a financial idiot - is this a bad thing? I’ve never really understood the need for a great credit score if you already own a home and don’t plan on using credit to purchase things.

At least in Michigan, 30% of your car insurance rate is based on your credit score .

 

[jwb]

Still think it’s a tale of two economies. The top 20% or so are doing very well, house prices are up, stock prices are up, inflation doesn’t affect them as much because it’s such a small percentage of their spending. The bottom 40% are flat out struggling or worse. That middle 40% are a case by case basis depending on job, debt load, whether you own your home etc.

For sure but I think those percentages are way off. The top 20% have always done well. The top 20% can't smash through new records for travel, concerts, ballpark tickets, restaurant spend, iphones, and basically every other non-essential item in existence. That requires the combined work of the entire populace.

Yes it blows for the bottom 20%, no doubt. But this is America and that's always the case, it's the system. Though I do still contend that we've all (including the bottom percentile) become accustomed to having more to the point where we spend on non-essential luxuries that people in the same socio-economic class of prior generations would have never even considered.

People under 25 spent over 40% as much on travel as boomers last year, which is an insanely high amount of spend for people that haven't even come close to entering their prime earning years yet. Anecdotally my sister in law is a single mom, kindergarten teacher that has seen Taylor Swift 4 times in the last few years, one of them in Rio as part of a big international trip. I honestly have no idea how she can afford that, but she's gonna spend on it anyway.

I linked to a podcast earlier, and an analyst was discussing the fortunes of Uber/Lyft. They were discussing it in terms of their outlook, but he mentioned offhand that their revenue continues to grow. I looked it up, Uber is up 16% from '22 to '23.

Anyhow, it seems to me that Uber may be a pretty decent measure on middle America economy.

It's everywhere, it's a luxury that a lot of people use, no one really needs, and Uber Eats and Uber rides would be among the first things many people wI ageee but with a bit of a caveat. The

Still think it’s a tale of two economies. The top 20% or so are doing very well, house prices are up, stock prices are up, inflation doesn’t affect them as much because it’s such a small percentage of their spending. The bottom 40% are flat out struggling or worse. That middle 40% are a case by case basis depending on job, debt load, whether you own your home etc.

For sure but I think those percentages are way off. The top 20% have always done well. The top 20% can't smash through new records for travel, concerts, ballpark tickets, restaurant spend, iphones, and basically every other non-essential item in existence. That requires the combined work of the entire populace.

Yes it blows for the bottom 20%, no doubt. But this is America and that's always the case, it's the system. Though I do still contend that we've all (including the bottom percentile) become accustomed to having more to the point where we spend on non-essential luxuries that people in the same socio-economic class of prior generations would have never even considered.

People under 25 spent over 40% as much on travel as boomers last year, which is an insanely high amount of spend for people that haven't even come close to entering their prime earning years yet. Anecdotally my sister in law is a single mom, kindergarten teacher that has seen Taylor Swift 4 times in the last few years, one of them in Rio as part of a big international trip. I honestly have no idea how she can afford that, but she's gonna spend on it anyway.

I linked to a podcast earlier, and an analyst was discussing the fortunes of Uber/Lyft. They were discussing it in terms of their outlook, but he mentioned offhand that their revenue continues to grow. I looked it up, Uber is up 16% from '22 to '23.

Anyhow, it seems to me that Uber may be a pretty decent measure on middle America economy.

It's everywhere, it's a luxury that a lot of people use, no one really needs, and Uber Eats and Uber rides would be among the first things many people would give up. Just a thought

I agree with a lot of this but with a caveat.
I’ve ubered once in my life. I have the Ap but never used it personally (wife’s account one time). I’ve never used Uber eats. If I want something I go pick it up.
That said, my 27 year old daughter ( who makes more than me) uses both Uber and Uber eats/door dash multiple times per week. My eldest son uses each a few times a month and my 19 year old users Uber eats 2-3/month
I can well afford it, but I’m cheap. And old. With younger generation I think this is a stickier service and it will take a lot of economic shock for it to be affected. That to me will make it a more difficult barometer of the economy. Kids love it. They’ll give up other things before having someone bring food to their door. I’d need to be unbelievably rich, or disabled to use this service. It’s a mindset.

This is interesting. I have a niece who is 28 and dead broke. A $500 car repair is beyond her. Her checking account is under $0 often. She makes $22/hr and lives at home. She does doordash/uber eats several times a week, and easily spends $10/day on coffee drinks. She smokes weed daily. This is all normal for her, and the thought of giving these things up is... it's not doable for her. She actually doesn't see how this hurts her. "I work - how am I supposed to eat?" she'll say. As if making soup and grilled cheese at home is 100% not an option.

It's so odd to me. I was young and irresponsible once too. But I always knew where I was irresponsible, and when it came time to pay the piper (about 23-24 years old), it was pretty easy to pivot. It's not as easy for younger people now for whatever reason. Maybe I'm looking at it with the "hindsight is 20/20" glasses, but I definitely do not remember being so stubborn when I went underwater financially.

 

[bcat01]

We pulled out of Colorado due to weather and fires. We never made a dime.

Are you an Insurance Guy?

I'm curious about the argument that people who live in a "safe" areas (to speak very loosely) are subsidizing people in hurricane-prone, fire-prone, wind-prone etc. areas. How accurate is that? I'm asking because I genuinely don't know how "national" the market for homeowners insurance is. I always sort of assumed that risk pricing was more regional/local but I could easily be wrong about that. Obviously I understand that the insurance industry relies on non-claimants subsidizing claimants.

I work for a small regional company. Rates are based on your state. We can't raise rates in one state to make up for losses in another. The state insurance department would not allow that. We have to provide tons of data to justify any rate changes.

 

[Sand]

Bunch of homes still under water in Florida right now.

I saw some video from Sarasota that was really really bad.

All homes in Florida should be on stilts.

 

[Battersbox]

I understand there are multiple moving parts to insurance rates and how they're rising. I think it's extremely relevant to how we feel about the economy though.

I agree with the notion that grocery escalation is really not a factor for many of us. And even when it is, it's more insidious because we pay for groceries in drips and drabs. If you run to Wal-Mart 3 times a week and spend an extra $15 each time it's sort of easy to not dwell on how that adds up. But insurance rates are more easily top of mind when you cut a check for your premiums either monthly, or worse yet, once or twice a year. That's a bigger chunk all at once. Even if you can easily afford it, people who tend to be smart about money don't like writing bigger checks for a service that for all intents and purposes is rarely needed.

 

[SFBayDuck]

If you run to Wal-Mart 3 times a week

This sounds horrible. I think I've been to a Walmart under a dozen times, total.

 

[Battersbox]

If you run to Wal-Mart 3 times a week

This sounds horrible. I think I've been to a Walmart under a dozen times, total.

It's a smart place to grocery shop. I've never understood the hate, but to be fair I am part West Virginian.

 

[beer 30]

Still think it’s a tale of two economies. The top 20% or so are doing very well, house prices are up, stock prices are up, inflation doesn’t affect them as much because it’s such a small percentage of their spending. The bottom 40% are flat out struggling or worse. That middle 40% are a case by case basis depending on job, debt load, whether you own your home etc.

For sure but I think those percentages are way off. The top 20% have always done well. The top 20% can't smash through new records for travel, concerts, ballpark tickets, restaurant spend, iphones, and basically every other non-essential item in existence. That requires the combined work of the entire populace.

Yes it blows for the bottom 20%, no doubt. But this is America and that's always the case, it's the system. Though I do still contend that we've all (including the bottom percentile) become accustomed to having more to the point where we spend on non-essential luxuries that people in the same socio-economic class of prior generations would have never even considered.

People under 25 spent over 40% as much on travel as boomers last year, which is an insanely high amount of spend for people that haven't even come close to entering their prime earning years yet. Anecdotally my sister in law is a single mom, kindergarten teacher that has seen Taylor Swift 4 times in the last few years, one of them in Rio as part of a big international trip. I honestly have no idea how she can afford that, but she's gonna spend on it anyway.

I linked to a podcast earlier, and an analyst was discussing the fortunes of Uber/Lyft. They were discussing it in terms of their outlook, but he mentioned offhand that their revenue continues to grow. I looked it up, Uber is up 16% from '22 to '23.

Anyhow, it seems to me that Uber may be a pretty decent measure on middle America economy.

It's everywhere, it's a luxury that a lot of people use, no one really needs, and Uber Eats and Uber rides would be among the first things many people wI ageee but with a bit of a caveat. The

Still think it’s a tale of two economies. The top 20% or so are doing very well, house prices are up, stock prices are up, inflation doesn’t affect them as much because it’s such a small percentage of their spending. The bottom 40% are flat out struggling or worse. That middle 40% are a case by case basis depending on job, debt load, whether you own your home etc.

For sure but I think those percentages are way off. The top 20% have always done well. The top 20% can't smash through new records for travel, concerts, ballpark tickets, restaurant spend, iphones, and basically every other non-essential item in existence. That requires the combined work of the entire populace.

Yes it blows for the bottom 20%, no doubt. But this is America and that's always the case, it's the system. Though I do still contend that we've all (including the bottom percentile) become accustomed to having more to the point where we spend on non-essential luxuries that people in the same socio-economic class of prior generations would have never even considered.

People under 25 spent over 40% as much on travel as boomers last year, which is an insanely high amount of spend for people that haven't even come close to entering their prime earning years yet. Anecdotally my sister in law is a single mom, kindergarten teacher that has seen Taylor Swift 4 times in the last few years, one of them in Rio as part of a big international trip. I honestly have no idea how she can afford that, but she's gonna spend on it anyway.

I linked to a podcast earlier, and an analyst was discussing the fortunes of Uber/Lyft. They were discussing it in terms of their outlook, but he mentioned offhand that their revenue continues to grow. I looked it up, Uber is up 16% from '22 to '23.

Anyhow, it seems to me that Uber may be a pretty decent measure on middle America economy.

It's everywhere, it's a luxury that a lot of people use, no one really needs, and Uber Eats and Uber rides would be among the first things many people would give up. Just a thought

I agree with a lot of this but with a caveat.
I’ve ubered once in my life. I have the Ap but never used it personally (wife’s account one time). I’ve never used Uber eats. If I want something I go pick it up.
That said, my 27 year old daughter ( who makes more than me) uses both Uber and Uber eats/door dash multiple times per week. My eldest son uses each a few times a month and my 19 year old users Uber eats 2-3/month
I can well afford it, but I’m cheap. And old. With younger generation I think this is a stickier service and it will take a lot of economic shock for it to be affected. That to me will make it a more difficult barometer of the economy. Kids love it. They’ll give up other things before having someone bring food to their door. I’d need to be unbelievably rich, or disabled to use this service. It’s a mindset.

This is interesting. I have a niece who is 28 and dead broke. A $500 car repair is beyond her. Her checking account is under $0 often. She makes $22/hr and lives at home. She does doordash/uber eats several times a week, and easily spends $10/day on coffee drinks. She smokes weed daily. This is all normal for her, and the thought of giving these things up is... it's not doable for her. She actually doesn't see how this hurts her. "I work - how am I supposed to eat?" she'll say. As if making soup and grilled cheese at home is 100% not an option.

It's so odd to me. I was young and irresponsible once too. But I always knew where I was irresponsible, and when it came time to pay the piper (about 23-24 years old), it was pretty easy to pivot. It's not as easy for younger people now for whatever reason. Maybe I'm looking at it with the "hindsight is 20/20" glasses, but I definitely do not remember being so stubborn when I went underwater financially.

I'm older but have two girls in their 20's. It's a tale of two cities, they are 5 years apart. The oldest is similar to above although we instilled in her that she pays her bills first, anything left over you do whatever with. The youngest is complete opposite, won't spend a dime if someone has a gun to her head. She covers her bills as well and has a decent sized savings account, oldest spends anything leftover as soon as possible. She is getting better now and starting to build a savings.

My point is, I was like @jwb growing up. I paid my bills and had a good time but when it came time to adult, I adulted and left behind the stupid. It was just the expectation I guess. I don't know that holds true today? I mean I know there are plenty of responsible younger folks out there but I also see a lot that are dependent on either family or have a sense of entitlement that I don't recall when I was growing up. Maybe it's just the boomer in me coming out

 

[beer 30]

If you run to Wal-Mart 3 times a week

This sounds horrible. I think I've been to a Walmart under a dozen times, total.

We live 1 1/2 miles from Walmart, it used to be our go to for about everything so 2-3 trips a week were kinda normal. It's down to probably once a week now unless there is an emergency becasue their quality of vegetables are deplorable these days and we shop smarter that we used to.

 

[Sand]

Haves and have nots imo.

The haves are spending like crazy and keep driving a prices up because they can, creating a larger chasm between the have nots.

:notanoriginaltake:

The chasm growing (if it is) is largely the result of inflation, for which you can thank the flood of printed money over the last few years spiking that metric. Real wages have been negative over the last few years - that's the effect of a diluted currency and a job market awash, particularly at the low end, with massive amounts of immigrant labor.

When you have negative real wages and rent, groceries, insurance, utilities, gasoline, etc. increasing 20+% over the last few years it is absolutely going to crush the low end more than the high end.

 

[SFBayDuck]

If you run to Wal-Mart 3 times a week

This sounds horrible. I think I've been to a Walmart under a dozen times, total.

It's a smart place to grocery shop. I've never understood the hate, but to be fair I am part West Virginian.

I have one near me where I live now, but for 25 years I was one of the very few in America that didn't have one within 10 miles (which according to Walmart themselves, 90% of the population does).

I also don't have a kid at home anymore, so I may go 2-3 weeks without stepping foot in any kind of grocery store. And, to tie it into the recent conversation here, it's not because we order delivery, we only do that maybe 1-2 times a month. We just buy in bulk and load up the freezer and the pantry. It's usually the need for salad/veggies/produce that gets me to go to the store. Or wine, can't run out of wine.

 

[Max Power]

If you run to Wal-Mart 3 times a week

This sounds horrible. I think I've been to a Walmart under a dozen times, total.

We live 1 1/2 miles from Walmart, it used to be our go to for about everything so 2-3 trips a week were kinda normal. It's down to probably once a week now unless there is an emergency becasue their quality of vegetables are deplorable these days and we shop smarter that we used to.

We won't buy fruits or vegetables there either. I'm still blown away other people will let walmart employees pick their fruits, veggies and meat for them. That time savings is not worth it for the "fresh" stuff.