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Warrick Holdman - Washington LB (1 Viewer)

pretender

Footballguy
Redskins | Holdman Moving InsideWed, 18 May 2005 22:27:26 -0700--------------------------------------------------------------------------------David Elfin, reports for the Washington Times, the Washington Redskins are moving LB Warrick Holdman to the middle. He has played his entire college and pro career on the outside. "The way a lot of teams are going now the [middle] linebacker has a lot of freedom where you just kind of run to the ball," Holdman said. "I think any guy can play any position, especially at linebacker. I really don't know what position [i'll play], but I'm trying to learn all of them." Having never played at middle linebacker will his supporting cast help make this a good position for him? It doesn't say he will be the starter but I believe that he will be. Does he have perhaps a couple of good years with Washington at this position? Does anybody know what kind of contract he signed - length etc.?For what it's worth.

 

Beaumont

Footballguy
Redskins | Holdman Moving Inside

Wed, 18 May 2005 22:27:26 -0700

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Elfin, reports for the Washington Times, the Washington Redskins are moving LB Warrick Holdman to the middle. He has played his entire college and pro career on the outside. "The way a lot of teams are going now the [middle] linebacker has a lot of freedom where you just kind of run to the ball," Holdman said. "I think any guy can play any position, especially at linebacker. I really don't know what position [i'll play], but I'm trying to learn all of them."

Having never played at middle linebacker will his supporting cast help make this a good position for him? It doesn't say he will be the starter but I believe that he will be. Does he have perhaps a couple of good years with Washington at this position? Does anybody know what kind of contract he signed - length etc.?

For what it's worth.
Lemar Marshall's value just took a dive ... and McCune wont be stepping into that spot over Marshall and Holdman anytime soon ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bloom

Moderator
Redskins | Holdman Moving Inside

Wed, 18 May 2005 22:27:26 -0700

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Elfin, reports for the Washington Times, the Washington Redskins are moving LB Warrick Holdman to the middle. He has played his entire college and pro career on the outside. "The way a lot of teams are going now the [middle] linebacker has a lot of freedom where you just kind of run to the ball," Holdman said. "I think any guy can play any position, especially at linebacker. I really don't know what position [i'll play], but I'm trying to learn all of them."

Having never played at middle linebacker will his supporting cast help make this a good position for him? It doesn't say he will be the starter but I believe that he will be. Does he have perhaps a couple of good years with Washington at this position? Does anybody know what kind of contract he signed - length etc.?

For what it's worth.
Lemar Marshall's value just took a dive ... and McCune wont be stepping into that spot over Marshall and Holdman anytime soon ...
what does "anytime soon" mean? I could easily see McCune taking over next year if he develops well - he's a stout run stopper, very similar to trotter - mccune is only getting day 2 rookie pay and will be a ton cheaper than holdman next season - the only thing in mccune's way for that job long term is himself - neither holdman or marshall are talented enough to block him if he plays up to his potential.
 

Beaumont

Footballguy
Anytime soon to me means not 2005 ... we are talking about a 5th round pick with 3 vets (maybe really 2 subtracting Barrow) in front of him ... although Holdman's contract is a one year contract ...

 

Bloom

Moderator
Anytime soon to me means not 2005 ... we are talking about a 5th round pick with 3 vets (maybe really 2 subtracting Barrow) in front of him ... although Holdman's contract is a one year contract ...
i totally agree with that - i wouldnt expect anything from mccune this year.
 

redman

Footballguy
Anytime soon to me means not 2005 ... we are talking about a 5th round pick with 3 vets (maybe really 2 subtracting Barrow) in front of him ... although Holdman's contract is a one year contract ...
i totally agree with that - i wouldnt expect anything from mccune this year.
Here's the thing. In a redraft you're absolutely correct. In a dynasty situation, however, I think McCune's the most valuable 'Skins LB to have on your squad long term IMHO, especially given Arrington's uncertain health situation. He's a workout maniac, is mature, and is an aggressive tackler. The team loves him. He's a virtual lock to be the long term MLB, and in that system that's gold. If things go well for him in terms of learning the system, and Barrow doesn't recover, I could see him starting by the end of the year. Remember this: aside from Barrow, McCune is the only true MLB on the roster.

 
Remember this: aside from Barrow, McCune is the only true MLB on the roster.
And that's why I targeted him (and got him) in all three of my dynasty rookie IDP drafts. If Antonio Pierce can do what he did in the middle of that D, McCune could be golden.The Holdman signing, IMHO, is an indictment on Barrow AND Arringotn's health. The FO simply doesnt think much of that situation. McCune could be a very, very nice surprise. Holdman provides a body to put inside or outside. He could struggle mightily moving inside though. That's not the easiest of moves.

 

redman

Footballguy
Holdman provides a body to put inside or outside. He could struggle mightily moving inside though. That's not the easiest of moves.
The local Washington media and the team website have been discussing how Holdman could be an option in the middle. Considering he's never started there and has apparently only played sparsely there besides, I'll believe it when I see it. OTOH, Pierce as of one year ago hadn't played MLB either, although Pierce was notorious last year for being a step or two ahead of the coaches on the field in terms of lining up guys and making adjustments. Truly a bright guy who will be missed.

Whatever happens this year, McCune figures to be the starting MLB in 2006 onward.

 

mario8723

Footballguy
The big problem with McCune is that he doesn't possess the pass coverage skills at this point. To me, even if he does wind up in the middle, he almost definitely will not be a 2-down LB thus diminishing his FF value. He has nice speed, and nice power but doesn't really have the change of direction you want in a MLB. Which, of course, is why he never got drafted until the 154th pick.So while there is an opening there, ready for the taking, let's not annoint this guy the next Antonio Pierce just yet.

 

Bloom

Moderator
The big problem with McCune is that he doesn't possess the pass coverage skills at this point. To me, even if he does wind up in the middle, he almost definitely will not be a 2-down LB thus diminishing his FF value.

He has nice speed, and nice power but doesn't really have the change of direction you want in a MLB. Which, of course, is why he never got drafted until the 154th pick.

So while there is an opening there, ready for the taking, let's not annoint this guy the next Antonio Pierce just yet.
i assume you meant 3 down, and i totally agree. however, that just makes him another trotter type - run stuffer on 1st and 2nd - take trotters value in your IDP league, and thats mccune's most likely upside.
 

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
this is an important clarification, bloom...obviously a three down LB is desireable... ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL... but at a certain point a stud two down MLB is better than fringe three down LB.trotter excellent example... if you project what he did last eight games over a full season, in some scoring systems you get very nice numbers (top 10-20?).hartwell is reportedly a two down LB... yet he is expected to compile monster tackle numbers as the falcons new MLB, finally out from the long shadow cast by best LB of his generation ray lewis.it should be pointed out that not all third downs are third & long & obvious passing situations, so supposed "two down" LB actually do get in on some third down action, upping their stats further.this might be a logical springboard to a discussion of top two down MLBs... ones that might be expected to outscore many of their three down brethren.earl holmes used to put up some good numbers in PIT, but he is on the downside of his career.

 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
McCune is a very old rookie at 26 years old after having served in the military for a few years. I think that's important to keep in mind when evaluating his dynasty value.I also think Pierce is a better player than McCune, so I don't think it's fair to compare the two.As for Holdman, I thought he was playing MLB during preseason of Urlacher's rookie year, but Urlacher eventually beat him out. He's a very good tackler who could be a stop-gap measure for the Skins if Barrow doesn't make it back.

 

Rovers

Footballguy
this is an important clarification, bloom...

obviously a three down LB is desireable... ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL... but at a certain point a stud two down MLB is better than fringe three down LB.

trotter excellent example... if you project what he did last eight games over a full season, in some scoring systems you get very nice numbers (top 10-20?).

hartwell is reportedly a two down LB... yet he is expected to compile monster tackle numbers as the falcons new MLB, finally out from the long shadow cast by best LB of his generation ray lewis.

it should be pointed out that not all third downs are third & long & obvious passing situations, so supposed "two down" LB actually do get in on some third down action, upping their stats further.

this might be a logical springboard to a discussion of top two down MLBs... ones that might be expected to outscore many of their three down brethren.

earl holmes used to put up some good numbers in PIT, but he is on the downside of his career.
Is it fair to say, in general, that it's the MLB who usually gets pulled in the nickel and dime from teams that use a base 4-3? Of the following, Vilma, Quarles, Hartwell, and Cowart, only Vilma plays (projected) in the passing D alignments. Who does Pitt play in thier nickel? Farrior and.....? Porter? I would think Pierce is an MLB who stays in. But then, which LB gets pulled when the G-Men are in a nickel or dime? It sure would be interesting to see some sort of chart combined with points from last year. I would have no clue as to how to do that myself. :confused:
 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
Is it fair to say, in general, that it's the MLB who usually gets pulled in the nickel and dime from teams that use a base 4-3?
no, not really. It all depends on their coverage ability. In addition to being the best run defender on their team, MLBs like Ray Lewis, London Fletcher, Zach Thomas, Al Wilson, and Brian Urlacher are also often the best cover LBs as well.
 

Tick

Footballguy
this is an important clarification, bloom...

obviously a three down LB is desireable... ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL... but at a certain point a stud two down MLB is better than fringe three down LB.

trotter excellent example... if you project what he did last eight games over a full season, in some scoring systems you get very nice numbers (top 10-20?).

hartwell is reportedly a two down LB... yet he is expected to compile monster tackle numbers as the falcons new MLB, finally out from the long shadow cast by best LB of his generation ray lewis.

it should be pointed out that not all third downs are third & long & obvious passing situations, so supposed "two down" LB actually do get in on some third down action, upping their stats further.

this might be a logical springboard to a discussion of top two down MLBs... ones that might be expected to outscore many of their three down brethren.

earl holmes used to put up some good numbers in PIT, but he is on the downside of his career.
Hey, Truth...I love this discussion - I was headed in this direction soon in my 3-down MLB thread, but don't have the player and scheme knowledge to fill out the list of 3-down guys before moving on to 2-down guys.

Aaron, thanks for mentioning Al Wilson - I'll add him to the list of 3-down guys.

 

redman

Footballguy
The big problem with McCune is that he doesn't possess the pass coverage skills at this point. To me, even if he does wind up in the middle, he almost definitely will not be a 2-down LB thus diminishing his FF value.

He has nice speed, and nice power but doesn't really have the change of direction you want in a MLB. Which, of course, is why he never got drafted until the 154th pick.

So while there is an opening there, ready for the taking, let's not annoint this guy the next Antonio Pierce just yet.
The irony of this statement is that on year ago Antonio Pierce wasn't "the next Antonio Pierce" either. I grant you, Pierce had some good coverage skills given that he began in the league as an WLB, but to say outright that McCune does not seems a bit premature. He may not, but we haven't seen him play yet.

Either way, I've touted him based upon scheme and as someone else said Trotter as a two-down MLB still puts up very solid numbers. The key here to remember is that we're discussing potential. The fantasy LB "market" tends to be pretty sparse when it comes to valuable finds, so the point is that McCune holds a lot of value given his potential.

 

Bloom

Moderator
The big problem with McCune is that he doesn't possess the pass coverage skills at this point.  To me, even if he does wind up in the middle, he almost definitely will not be a 2-down LB thus diminishing his FF value.

He has nice speed, and nice power but doesn't really have the change of direction you want in a MLB. Which, of course, is why he never got drafted until the 154th pick.

So while there is an opening there,  ready for the taking, let's not annoint this guy the next Antonio Pierce just yet.
The irony of this statement is that on year ago Antonio Pierce wasn't "the next Antonio Pierce" either. I grant you, Pierce had some good coverage skills given that he began in the league as an WLB, but to say outright that McCune does not seems a bit premature. He may not, but we haven't seen him play yet.

Either way, I've touted him based upon scheme and as someone else said Trotter as a two-down MLB still puts up very solid numbers. The key here to remember is that we're discussing potential. The fantasy LB "market" tends to be pretty sparse when it comes to valuable finds, so the point is that McCune holds a lot of value given his potential.
exactly, you have to keep in mind that mccune is going in the 2nd half of dynasty rookie drafts - if you can unearth another trotter there, you are doing well. no one is claiming that mccune will be a ray lewis/urlacher kind of force, just that he represents value in rookie drafts.
 

John Norton

Moderator
Don't make the mistake of expecting Holdman to have much impact on the Skins LB situation. He's had 1 decent season in his entire career and that was 5 years ago. Heck the guy couldn't even start for the talent poor Browns last year. He an insurance policy that the club is counting on as a backup to all three positions and nothing more. Barrow is old and will never be completely healthy again and Marshall is an average backup linebacker. If you think McCune has no chance of making an impact this season I suggest you reconsider. He won't play in passing situations but he is a big physical guy who is tough against the run. IMO It will be no surprise at all to see him become a starter by if not before mid season.

 

John Norton

Moderator
this is an important clarification, bloom...

obviously a three down LB is desireable... ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL... but at a certain point a stud two down MLB is better than fringe three down LB.

trotter excellent example... if you project what he did last eight games over a full season, in some scoring systems you get very nice numbers (top 10-20?).

hartwell is reportedly a two down LB... yet he is expected to compile monster tackle numbers as the falcons new MLB, finally out from the long shadow cast by best LB of his generation ray lewis.

it should be pointed out that not all third downs are third & long & obvious passing situations, so supposed "two down" LB actually do get in on some third down action, upping their stats further.

this might be a logical springboard to a discussion of top two down MLBs... ones that might be expected to outscore many of their three down brethren.

earl holmes used to put up some good numbers in PIT, but he is on the downside of his career.
Is it fair to say, in general, that it's the MLB who usually gets pulled in the nickel and dime from teams that use a base 4-3? Of the following, Vilma, Quarles, Hartwell, and Cowart, only Vilma plays (projected) in the passing D alignments. Who does Pitt play in thier nickel? Farrior and.....? Porter? I would think Pierce is an MLB who stays in. But then, which LB gets pulled when the G-Men are in a nickel or dime? It sure would be interesting to see some sort of chart combined with points from last year. I would have no clue as to how to do that myself. :confused:
Actually in a lot of schemes its not the MLB who is pulled on passing downs. It all depends on who has the cover skills. Often its the SLB who comes off. In fact all of the guys you have listed there will remain on the field in most nickel situations when 2 linebackers are still in play. Vilma and Cowart will even be there in the dime package when there is 1 LB and 6 DBs. In the Steelers 3-4 one or the other of the outside backers becomes pass rusher so they actually have 3 LBs on the field in the nickel. Part of their scheme is keeping the offense off balance by not knowing which of the OLBs will rush and which will drop. Pierce will likely be an every down player for the Giants as well. Dhani Jones is first off the field and Barrett Green is likely to be next when they go dime.
 

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