Weirdness in Buffalo: CJ Spiller vs Fred Jackson (1 Viewer)

[Touchdown There]

In July, it was widely assumed that Fred Jackson would see most of the carries in Buffalo. Here is a press clipping from the local beat writer:

Beat writer Chris Brown suggests that Fred Jackson could have his best season as a rusher in 2011.

Jackson has been an afterthought heading into previous seasons, stuck behind Marshawn Lynch or the hype of C.J. Spiller. But he comes into this season with the backing of coach Chan Gailey and is the clear starter as we get set for camp. We're expecting something around 250 touches for the 30-year-old Jackson, but touchdowns figure to be tough to come by.

Source: BuffaloBills.com Jul 25 - 9:45 AM

It appears that Fred Jackson was abruptly demoted for the second preseason game. CJ Spiller starts and performs terribly. There appears to be some fallout.

Fred Jackson expressed frustration Monday that the Bills are trying to demote him out of the starting lineup for C.J. Spiller. Jackson is a much, much better back than Spiller, so it's hard to fault him. "I feel like a No. 1 back," Jackson said. "I feel like I should be treated like one, know what's going on, know where I stand and what the situation is." Coach Chan Gailey said Monday that he feels Jackson and Spiller are "both starters," but F-Jax is "a little hit ahead." Based on the ability to create positive gains and be effective in the passing game, Jackson should be "a lot ahead."

Source: Associated Press Aug 22 - 10:15 PM

Here is where it gets interesting. This does not seem to be an issue of Fred Jackson being out of line. Other players are backing him up.

F-Jax still Bills' starter: One day after voicing his concerns about the prospect of losing his starting job to C.J. Spiller, Bills RB Fred Jackson said he spoke with offensive coordinator Curtis Modkins about the matter. "We had a productive talk," Jackson said. "He told me that I was a starter and we can go from there. But we'll see how things pan out." Jackson has the support of his veteran teammates in his battle with Spiller. While the media spoke with Jackson, CB Drayton Florence made it a point to speak loudly nearby. "Respect is earned, not given, Fred. And you've earned it, my friend. You've earned it," Florence said. Coach Chan Gailey said on Monday after Jackson spoke out that he regards both players to be starters, while adding Jackson is "a little bit ahead" of Spiller. CBSsports.com (Updated 08/23/2011)

It seems that CJ Spiller is not respected in the locker room. Maybe he does not practice hard. Maybe he has an "entitled punk" attitude. Who knows? The only thing that I know is that the Buffalo Bills locker room does not want CJ Spiller in the huddle. That makes him fantasy kryptonite.

Fred Jackson has been re-named the starter and he is demanding a long term contract extension. The Bills do not want to give him one. They have a good chance at being the worst team in the NFL with an unpredictable RBBC situation. Are you sure you want these guys on your 2011 roster?

 

[rjv]

I grabbed Jackson in the 8th round in a ppr league for my 4th RB.

 

[glong989]

I don't really see how not being very liked makes you fantasy kryptonite. If he produces on the field he won't be disliked nearly as much.

Either way I still look for Jackson to get the majority of the carries here.

 

[Mike]

Florence was the Bills traded Evans, so not surprising he would speak up in this situation.

 

[Touchdown There]

I don't really see how not being very liked makes you fantasy kryptonite. If he produces on the field he won't be disliked nearly as much.

Are you saying that CJ Spiller should be given the starting role if he is lazy and no one wants to block for him?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Jackson is criminally underrated. Once the season starts, he'll see 80% of the carries in Buffalo and churn out 1100 yards and 6+ TDs. The Bills spent a high pick on Spiller and still like his ability to create explosive plays, but it's clear that he destroys them in pass protection and has no patience to wait for blocks to develop on the NFL level. The cream will rise to the top and once the season gets rolling, Jackson will be THE guy in Buffalo.

Gailey isn't a guy that's going to play guys just because. He's going to try to use the players that can make the biggest impact and help the team win.

FWIW, I bet Spiller ends up lining up as a WR a whole lot more than he does as a RB this season.

 

[doowain]

The only thing that I know is that the Buffalo Bills locker room does not want CJ Spiller in the huddle. That makes him fantasy kryptonite.

Then I would venture to say you know nothing. Why are you trying to pass off conjecture as fact?

Are you saying that CJ Spiller should be given the starting role if he is lazy and no one wants to block for him?

What? Where are you getting that Spiller is lazy and no one wants to block for him?

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Jackson is criminally underrated. Once the season starts, he'll see 80% of the carries in Buffalo and churn out 1100 yards and 6+ TDs. The Bills spent a high pick on Spiller and still like his ability to create explosive plays, but it's clear that he destroys them in pass protection and has no patience to wait for blocks to develop on the NFL level. The cream will rise to the top and once the season gets rolling, Jackson will be THE guy in Buffalo. Gailey isn't a guy that's going to play guys just because. He's going to try to use the players that can make the biggest impact and help the team win.FWIW, I bet Spiller ends up lining up as a WR a whole lot more than he does as a RB this season.

I think you maybe going to far calling out Spiller to be mostly a WR. He is probably the COP back at the very least. Since you are closer to this situation than most, is there any sense that Management is just busting Fred Jackson's balls in advance of his expected contract extension. And why would they even they even be interested if he just turned 30?

 

[bigmarc27]

It seems that CJ Spiller is not respected in the locker room. Maybe he does not practice hard. Maybe he has an "entitled punk" attitude. Who knows? The only thing that I know is that the Buffalo Bills locker room does not want CJ Spiller in the huddle. That makes him fantasy kryptonite.

This is complete garbage.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

The Bills look like they are going to make screen passes a big part of the offense this year, so I think there will be enough receptions for both to be useful in PPR leagues. But, I think a potential problem that people are overlooking here is the addition of Brad Smith. He might actually become the primary goalline option out of the Wildcat.

Given where Jackson is being drafted though, I think he's pretty valuable. Spiller is more of a wildcard at this point. He'll definitely get more than the 100 touches he got last year, but who knows what he will do with them as he hasn't shown much yet.

 

[Touchdown There]

The only thing that I know is that the Buffalo Bills locker room does not want CJ Spiller in the huddle. That makes him fantasy kryptonite.

Then I would venture to say you know nothing.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Jackson is criminally underrated. Once the season starts, he'll see 80% of the carries in Buffalo and churn out 1100 yards and 6+ TDs. The Bills spent a high pick on Spiller and still like his ability to create explosive plays, but it's clear that he destroys them in pass protection and has no patience to wait for blocks to develop on the NFL level. The cream will rise to the top and once the season gets rolling, Jackson will be THE guy in Buffalo. Gailey isn't a guy that's going to play guys just because. He's going to try to use the players that can make the biggest impact and help the team win.FWIW, I bet Spiller ends up lining up as a WR a whole lot more than he does as a RB this season.

I think you maybe going to far calling out Spiller to be mostly a WR. He is probably the COP back at the very least. Since you are closer to this situation than most, is there any sense that Management is just busting Fred Jackson's balls in advance of his expected contract extension. And why would they even they even be interested if he just turned 30?

I honestly think management was just surprised by Jackson's reaction. The Bills desperately want Spiller to be more of an impact player and were/are hoping that he has advanced in the offseason. Unfortunately for both the Bills and Spiller, the offseason stuff where he would really have gotten better was all scrapped due to the lockout and he's essentially the same player he was last year. But the Bills really wanted to see exactly what he was capable of and in what ways they could use him in their offense this year. So they gave him a lot more reps with the first team offense this past preseason game in order to find that stuff out. But then Tim Graham's "report" was put out there saying that the starting job was Spiller's to lose right before the game. (I believe the report to be totally wrong). I think Jackson heard the report and then the team went and gave a bunch of touches to Spiller in the preseason game to see what he can do and Jackson got nervous and upset. Gailey screwed up by not heading things off as soon as the report came out and letting Freddie know that he was still the #1 guy. So I don't think that the Bills really intended anything to be an indication that they're making Spiller the #1 or were trying to send a message to Jackson. I think they simply screwed up (since they seem to like to do that in general) and now created an issue with Jackson where there shouldn't be one. Although, I think Tim Graham's errant report is to blame as well.I honestly haven't heard from ANY other source that the Bills have any plans at all of making Jackson anything other than the primary RB.

 

[GroveDiesel]

The Bills look like they are going to make screen passes a big part of the offense this year, so I think there will be enough receptions for both to be useful in PPR leagues. But, I think a potential problem that people are overlooking here is the addition of Brad Smith. He might actually become the primary goalline option out of the Wildcat.

Given where Jackson is being drafted though, I think he's pretty valuable. Spiller is more of a wildcard at this point. He'll definitely get more than the 100 touches he got last year, but who knows what he will do with them as he hasn't shown much yet.

The crazy thing is that I was screaming at them to use more screens last year and they never did. Or they just continued to throw really terrible screen passes instead of nifty little bubble screens or quick slants. I'm not sure that they have any other option but to use more screens and quick passes anyway. Even with all of the screens and short passes they ran last game, the defense was still getting to the QB. 7 step drops are a thing of fantasy with the current offensive line.

 

[Touchdown There]

Jackson owners are in here pimping Jackson. Spiller owners in here think he has too much talent to sit. Non-owners are smart enough to stay away.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I like the chances of Johnny White if he gets a chance.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I like the chances of Johnny White if he gets a chance.

he was concussed on his first carry Saturday night and carted off the field on a stretcher. he'll sit out the rest of the preseason. not good for a rookie RB who had no minicamps and is still learning the offense.

 

[doowain]

The only thing that I know is that the Buffalo Bills locker room does not want CJ Spiller in the huddle. That makes him fantasy kryptonite.

Then I would venture to say you know nothing.

Hmmm...I'm afraid not. You said "The only thing that I know is that the Buffalo Bills locker room does not want CJ Spiller in the huddle." You follow that up with no factual evidence to support that statement. And THEN you go as far as to imply that Spiller is lazy and that his teammates won't block for him.

So, if that's "The only thing" you know, it's fair to say you know nothing.

It's funny you post that. Considering how far off your assessment of the situation is, considering the evidence at hand, I was beginning to wonder if this thread was a fishing expedition myself.

ETA: Way to gloss over my question. Why are you trying to pass off conjecture as fact?

 

[doowain]

Jackson owners are in here pimping Jackson. Spiller owners in here think he has too much talent to sit. Non-owners are smart enough to stay away.

FWIW, I own both.

 

[Touchdown There]

Jackson owners are in here pimping Jackson. Spiller owners in here think he has too much talent to sit. Non-owners are smart enough to stay away.

FWIW, I own both.

Therein lies your problem with the good information I posted in this thread for smart owners.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Jackson owners are in here pimping Jackson. Spiller owners in here think he has too much talent to sit. Non-owners are smart enough to stay away.

Actually, if you pay any attention, you'll notice that the people "pimping" Jackson are Bills fans. Maybe you should be a little more humble and learn when to shut up and listen to people that know a lot more about a situation than you do.

 

[glong989]

Jackson owners are in here pimping Jackson. Spiller owners in here think he has too much talent to sit. Non-owners are smart enough to stay away.

I own neither and would happily take Jackson. I missed him in my first draft. Hopefully people thinking he's not really the starter will allow him to fall farther and I can scoop him up later than expected.

 

[Sweet Love]

It reminds me a bit of the Chicago situation a few years back between Benson and T Jones. Benson was not trying and did not endear himself to his teammates (ala Spiller) and Jones was not the the type of veteran to "grin an bear it"...certainly not a great combo together. Jackson and Spiller fell very far in the one draft I did in the 7th round (behind Lynch, Benson, Thomas and even Tolbert) and Spiller was snatched in the 9th...

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Being picked as late as 90th overall, Jackson is certainly going to outscore a lot of RBs picked earlier despite his limited TD opportunities.

 

[glong989]

Jackson owners are in here pimping Jackson. Spiller owners in here think he has too much talent to sit. Non-owners are smart enough to stay away.

Actually, if you pay any attention, you'll notice that the people "pimping" Jackson are Bills fans. Maybe you should be a little more humble and learn when to shut up and listen to people that know a lot more about a situation than you do.

He obviously knows what's going on inside the locker room though - no one likes Spiller, he's kryptonite.

 

[doowain]

Jackson owners are in here pimping Jackson. Spiller owners in here think he has too much talent to sit. Non-owners are smart enough to stay away.

Actually, if you pay any attention, you'll notice that the people "pimping" Jackson are Bills fans. Maybe you should be a little more humble and learn when to shut up and listen to people that know a lot more about a situation than you do.

Not sure why anyone would expect the OP to add anything useful to the conversation. He continues to spew info that is not based in any sense of reality and won't answer anyone that questions where he's getting his info.This thread had potential as there is definitely merit to the idea of avoiding both players, but I liken it to a child being given the keys to an expensive sports car. The problem is...that child is 7 years old. He can't reach the peddles, the car is a manual, and he's driving in a foreign land where he neither speaks the language or knows how to get where he is going. You feel bad for the kid, because he's trying so hard. He just doesn't have the means to make it happen. You try to help, but, again, he doesn't speak the language. Maybe in 10 years. Maybe.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I like the chances of Johnny White if he gets a chance.

he was concussed on his first carry Saturday night and carted off the field on a stretcher. he'll sit out the rest of the preseason. not good for a rookie RB who had no minicamps and is still learning the offense.

Patience is a virtue.

 

[moderated]

Maybe you should be a little more humble and learn when to shut up and listen to people that know a lot more about a situation than you do.

You mean people like Fred Jackson, who is actually on the team and complaining that he feels his role is being reduced?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Maybe you should be a little more humble and learn when to shut up and listen to people that know a lot more about a situation than you do.

You mean people like Fred Jackson, who is actually on the team and complaining that he feels his role is being reduced?

Or the coach, who actually coaches the team and controls who plays how much? You know, the guy who has said that Jackson is his #1 and ahead of Spiller?

 

[Touchdown There]

Maybe you should be a little more humble and learn when to shut up and listen to people that know a lot more about a situation than you do.

You mean people like Fred Jackson, who is actually on the team and complaining that he feels his role is being reduced?

The homers are on the attack. They do not want to hear that this team will be a bottom 5 rushing unit. This is an RBBC nightmare with a td vulture in Brad Smith. Sorry to anyone that expect a fantasy football opinion to be "humble". Especially an opinion that differs from homers/owners. I should be ashamed. The Bills have no chemistry. Many players and fans are at odds with the Lee Evans trade. They are low on talent with locker room issues. This will be a painful year for Bills fans.If you like running backs in volatile, low scoring situations, pick these guys up. If you like to select running backs with less risk, in better offenses and higher scoring situations, then pass on these two.

 

[moderated]

Maybe you should be a little more humble and learn when to shut up and listen to people that know a lot more about a situation than you do.

You mean people like Fred Jackson, who is actually on the team and complaining that he feels his role is being reduced?

Or the coach, who actually coaches the team and controls who plays how much? You know, the guy who has said that Jackson is his #1 and ahead of Spiller?

Not saying Fred isn't the starter, i think he is with a reduced role so what the coach is saying is right, but there is definitely concern that Fred Jackson himself feels his role is being altered.Why would you ignore what Fred Jackson was thinking? Is he just someone who is overly sensitive?Maybe he is really paranoid and there is nothing to it, but more likely something isn't sitting right with him for good reason.ignore what's coming out of the horses mouth at your own risk.

 

[moderated]

Maybe you should be a little more humble and learn when to shut up and listen to people that know a lot more about a situation than you do.

You mean people like Fred Jackson, who is actually on the team and complaining that he feels his role is being reduced?

The homers are on the attack. They do not want to hear that this team will be a bottom 5 rushing unit. This is an RBBC nightmare with a td vulture in Brad Smith. Sorry to anyone that expect a fantasy football opinion to be "humble". Especially an opinion that differs from homers/owners. I should be ashamed. The Bills have no chemistry. Many players and fans are at odds with the Lee Evans trade. They are low on talent with locker room issues. This will be a painful year for Bills fans.If you like running backs in volatile, low scoring situations, pick these guys up. If you like to select running backs with less risk, in better offenses and higher scoring situations, then pass on these two.

No offense to Bills homers, but i've found homers are actually the worst to listen to as they have extreme biases about their team that influence all their opinions. Paralysis by analysis. I do it with the teams i follow closely, and i miss on the teams i'm a "homer" of a lot more then the teams i don't hold strong biases about.

 

[Touchdown There]

Jackson owners are in here pimping Jackson. Spiller owners in here think he has too much talent to sit. Non-owners are smart enough to stay away.

Actually, if you pay any attention, you'll notice that the people "pimping" Jackson are Bills fans. Maybe you should be a little more humble and learn when to shut up and listen to people that know a lot more about a situation than you do.

Not sure why anyone would expect the OP to add anything useful to the conversation. He continues to spew info that is not based in any sense of reality and won't answer anyone that questions where he's getting his info.

This thread had potential as there is definitely merit to the idea of avoiding both players, but I liken it to a child being given the keys to an expensive sports car. The problem is...that child is 7 years old. He can't reach the peddles, the car is a manual, and he's driving in a foreign land where he neither speaks the language or knows how to get where he is going. You feel bad for the kid, because he's trying so hard. He just doesn't have the means to make it happen. You try to help, but, again, he doesn't speak the language.

Maybe in 10 years. Maybe.

Don't

Doowain.

 

[doowain]

Jackson owners are in here pimping Jackson. Spiller owners in here think he has too much talent to sit. Non-owners are smart enough to stay away.

Actually, if you pay any attention, you'll notice that the people "pimping" Jackson are Bills fans. Maybe you should be a little more humble and learn when to shut up and listen to people that know a lot more about a situation than you do.

Not sure why anyone would expect the OP to add anything useful to the conversation. He continues to spew info that is not based in any sense of reality and won't answer anyone that questions where he's getting his info.

This thread had potential as there is definitely merit to the idea of avoiding both players, but I liken it to a child being given the keys to an expensive sports car. The problem is...that child is 7 years old. He can't reach the peddles, the car is a manual, and he's driving in a foreign land where he neither speaks the language or knows how to get where he is going. You feel bad for the kid, because he's trying so hard. He just doesn't have the means to make it happen. You try to help, but, again, he doesn't speak the language.

Maybe in 10 years. Maybe.

Don't

I couldn't be mad at you. You gave me the keys to Trent Richardson with this gem. I am in your debt.

 

[doowain]

The only thing that I know is that the Buffalo Bills locker room does not want CJ Spiller in the huddle. That makes him fantasy kryptonite.

Then I would venture to say you know nothing. Why are you trying to pass off conjecture as fact?

Are you saying that CJ Spiller should be given the starting role if he is lazy and no one wants to block for him?

What? Where are you getting that Spiller is lazy and no one wants to block for him?

Still awaiting answers here.

 

[alg]

It seems that CJ Spiller is not respected in the locker room. Maybe he does not practice hard. Maybe he has an "entitled punk" attitude. Who knows? The only thing that I know is that the Buffalo Bills locker room does not want CJ Spiller in the huddle. That makes him fantasy kryptonite.

Agree with doowain, this is speculation - not fact. Spiller does not seem like the kind of guy to alienate a locker room. I think it would be the exact opposite. He has also been relegated to backup duty in the past. Vets always support vets with skill and loyalty. This paragraph, however, is speculative. Extrapolating concepts like "punk" and "lazy" are speculative...or more. More like irresponsible.

 

[bigmarc27]

I'm not saying Spiller will be the greatest RB or that Jackson shouldn't have the starting job.

I am saying though, anyone implying that Spiller isn't working hard or is becoming a locker room disturbance is completely incorrect and talking out their ###.

 

[Touchdown There]

Any supporting info to make your point?

 

[doowain]

Any supporting info to make your point?

OK, now it's clear to everyone (if it wasn't before), that you aren't interested in a productive discussion.You are asking for supporting info, when you haven't supplied any yourself? Impressive.On a side note: The team you drafted in our league together makes so much more sense now.

 

[Rick James]

as a Georgia Tech fan I can't help but laugh that a NFL team hired Curtis Modkins as Offensive Coordinator.

 

[Joseph]

as a Georgia Tech fan I can't help but laugh that a NFL team hired Curtis Modkins as Offensive Coordinator.

In practice, Gailey is the OC and Modkins is the RBs coach.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

as a Georgia Tech fan I can't help but laugh that a NFL team hired Curtis Modkins as Offensive Coordinator.

Gailey calls all the plays from what I understand.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Im in agreement that Fred Jackson is undervalued at this point, but I wouldnt be surprised to see a 100-200yd and 1-2TD dip in his numbers from last year.

I also am intrigued by Spiller this year. He went from having huge hype in the preseason last year, to sometimes going undrafted this year. I expect bigger numbers from Jackson, but Spiller could have decent value late, and this is coming from someone that he burned last year.

 

[Touchdown There]

Any supporting info to make your point?

OK, now it's clear to everyone (if it wasn't before), that you aren't interested in a productive discussion.You are asking for supporting info, when you haven't supplied any yourself? Impressive.

On a side note: The team you drafted in our league together makes so much more sense now.

ya stalker.

 

[Phish Brigade]

This whole Jackson/Spiller thing really shouldn't be that hard to diagnose.

- Fred Jackson has done nothing but become the best RB option we've had in recent years.

- Spiller gets drafted with a top 10 pick. It's only natural for the incumbent to feel a little threatened... but nothing came of it last year.

- Spiller gets reps with the 1st team offense in week 2 of pre-season. On a night where nuthin went right... again.

- Gailey and Nix obviously want to see what they've got with Spiller right now. You don't use a top 10 pick to be a perennial backup/3rd down back.

- Jackson was likely frustrated about many things that happened in the Broncos game. I'm not saying that he was misquoted or that anything was taken out of context... but the full transcript of that interview might help.

Ultimately, this will go away. Jackson will get the lions share of the touches again this year. And the OLine will continue to be our "kryptonite". Jackson could outperform his ADP, Spiller probably won't. Even as a long time Bills fan, I don't own Spiller on any of my teams. (including 7 dynasty teams)

Just like Aaron mentioned, I too was screaming for more screens last year. The problem is, our OLine just isn't good enough to be effective on those plays. To make matters worse, we are now moving Levitre around, not using Geoff Hangartner, and toying with the idea that Urbik and Rinehart are better options for us. I've seen what happens when you trot out the "biggest OLine" in the NFL littered with career backup talent. It definitely wasn't conducive to successful screen passes. It sounds like Gailey has been moving guys around to find a spark, find something that works. He's since essentially declared Levitre the LG starter ( link ) assuming Bell stops being a schmuck so hopefully Wood and Hangartner fill up the middle.

My 0.02

 

[Garts]

So is Jackson the starter?

I expect to see a lot of Spiller regardless.

 

[GroveDiesel]

According to the Toronto Star, Jackson is the starter. Which is what every Bills fan has said all along.

http://t.co/94m1GE3

 

[zamboni]

I would be a bit hesitant about Jackson in the early part of the season, as team brass clearly (and understandably) wants to see what they have with Spiller.

But as the season progresses and the weather gets colder - particularly if Spiller doesn't show a whole lot - Fred could be a very valuable player for many fantasy squads.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

So is Jackson the starter?

yes

 

[Hoya]

Jackson will be the starter. He will do what he's done the past few years. His biggest problems will be....

-The Bills WANT Spiller to be the guy, but they want him to earn it. They will give him as many chances as he needs plus

-Brad Smith will steal the goal line carries as part of the wildcat offense.

I would stay away from all Bills not named Stevie Johnson.

 

[glong989]

It was obvious the OP had an agenda from the start..