billjohnson
Footballguy
My league is considering moving from a 12 team league....up to a 14 team league. Was wondering if any of you play play 14 or even 16 team leagues...and what is considered the ideal number??
Bill
Bill
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What is the ideal number of teams in a fantasy football league? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter billjohnson
- Start date
comfortably numb
Footballguy
I do 16 and love it.It is however IDP.If non IDP, I think 14 is ideal.
12 Team leagues is the majority that I am entered in, and seems to suit me best. I don't think there is a really a sure answer here because it goes off your preference. The nice thing about a 12 team is it has nice balance of players from team to team and usually prevents one team from loading up, but also allows poor teams to pick up players on WW.
I personally do not care for 16 team leagues. Keep in mind there are only 32 teams in NFL. So when some team drafts three starting QBs, that means one team is not going to have a second QB. Or someone takes 3 defenses, or kickers. It makes it very challenging and those leagues if you encounter an injury it is very tough to come back from that unless you hold the handcuffs.
I personally do not care for 16 team leagues. Keep in mind there are only 32 teams in NFL. So when some team drafts three starting QBs, that means one team is not going to have a second QB. Or someone takes 3 defenses, or kickers. It makes it very challenging and those leagues if you encounter an injury it is very tough to come back from that unless you hold the handcuffs.
Captain Hook
Footballguy
12 teamers have been the standard (less are just all star leagues), but 14 team leagues are really better because you are deeper into the player pool so there are more different draft strategies and more complexity
sinatravolta
Footballguy
One problem to me with a 14 or 16 team league is the problems of the serpentine draft are multiplied. If you are on one of the ends of the snake - you have a really long time to wait between half of your picks - and therefore there are many players you just realistically don't have access to. Now - if you are an auction league - this problem goes away.
Also, I find that 12 is nice in terms of what is available on the waiver wire - there are guys you can pick up there who can contribute, especially at D, K, and just barely at RB and WR (other than when there's a major injury and suddenly a backup becomes valuable). I think when you go to 14 or 16 - there's really not much on the waiver wire which practically eliminates one more aspect of the game (using the WW wisely).
Agree with others that below 12 it's too much of an all-star game unless you have artificially large starting pools (e.g. start 2 QBs or 4 WRs, etc.).
Also, I find that 12 is nice in terms of what is available on the waiver wire - there are guys you can pick up there who can contribute, especially at D, K, and just barely at RB and WR (other than when there's a major injury and suddenly a backup becomes valuable). I think when you go to 14 or 16 - there's really not much on the waiver wire which practically eliminates one more aspect of the game (using the WW wisely).
Agree with others that below 12 it's too much of an all-star game unless you have artificially large starting pools (e.g. start 2 QBs or 4 WRs, etc.).
parrot
Footballguy
I'm in a 14 teamer. My only real problem with it is unbalanced divisions, we have 2 with 5 teams and 1 with 4 teams.
One way we deal with the problem mentioned above - i.e. no one available on WR - is to have minimum roster requirements at each position. We have 18 man rosters but you are required to carry a minimum of two at every position, including TE, PK, and DEF.
One way we deal with the problem mentioned above - i.e. no one available on WR - is to have minimum roster requirements at each position. We have 18 man rosters but you are required to carry a minimum of two at every position, including TE, PK, and DEF.
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Stay away from players who get hurt a lot.That's all I have to say.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
I'm in a 14 team Dynasty and we don't have divisions.
billjohnson
Footballguy
Yeah, I was in 10 team league last year and pick up DeAngelo Williams, etc off the waiver wire.....and there were always some really solid guys to be had.
Bill
Bill
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think the reason 12 teams is the most common format is because it has the most balance between starters and depth compared to the other options.
As already mentioned any less than 12 teams turns into a stud shuffler where picking your starting lineup becomes more important than anything else. Your best player gets injured you still will probably have another guy who you would start over him in some match ups anyways. And the WW will have decent players available for replacement.
14-16 team leagues are more challenging to draft and manage. So I like that about them. However these leagues also spread the starting talent more thinly across the league. For example instead of having 4-6 core players on your team like in a 12 team league you instead will likely only have 3-4 stars on your team. So the 14-16 team leagues become dominated by having that 1-2 stars who are better than everyone else. As the depth of stars on other teams is not enough to make up the difference when each team only has 2-3 of them.
Another way to look at is typicaly every season there is a drop off of starting caliber talent somewhere around pick 50. So this means in a 12 team league every team has a fair chance to get 4 of those 50 players. In a 14 team league only half of the teams have a chance at those top 50. So half will have 4 top 50 picks and the other half will have only 3. In a 16 team league the 1st 3 rounds = 48 players.
I have played in all of these formats. But because I like competitive parity above all else I prefer 12 team leagues. Especially if you are playing dynasty.. I found I do not like the disparity between the have and the have nots in 14-16 team dynasty leagues. Even when I was one of the haves. I do have teams in 12 team leagues where I consider myself a have. But the dynamics have more parity imo and the have nots can quickly turn things around still with some decent moves. It is next to impossible to get someone to trade a top 50 player in a 14-16 team league because they only have 2-3 of them. Or 4-5 if they are lucky.. then obviously at MUCH greater advantage than everyone else if they do. But again what are you going to give for a top 50 player in these leagues? When you only have 2-3 top 50 players yourself. And if you can swing a deal will that actualy really help you?
Anyhow..
Then ppl will tailor the scoring systems using PPR and high scoring IDP as a way to fabricate more depth of parity. And those ideas do have merit. I however have pet peeves against doctoring scoring systems when 9 times out of 10 I prefer all players to get rewarded the same points for the same accomplishment regardless of thier poisition.
So 12 team leagues for me. Except for Anarchy league which is 16 teams. But it is redraft and total points with doctored scoring system to create parity between positions. It being a total points league makes these things I normaly find bad good. But I would hate it playing head to head.
As already mentioned any less than 12 teams turns into a stud shuffler where picking your starting lineup becomes more important than anything else. Your best player gets injured you still will probably have another guy who you would start over him in some match ups anyways. And the WW will have decent players available for replacement.
14-16 team leagues are more challenging to draft and manage. So I like that about them. However these leagues also spread the starting talent more thinly across the league. For example instead of having 4-6 core players on your team like in a 12 team league you instead will likely only have 3-4 stars on your team. So the 14-16 team leagues become dominated by having that 1-2 stars who are better than everyone else. As the depth of stars on other teams is not enough to make up the difference when each team only has 2-3 of them.
Another way to look at is typicaly every season there is a drop off of starting caliber talent somewhere around pick 50. So this means in a 12 team league every team has a fair chance to get 4 of those 50 players. In a 14 team league only half of the teams have a chance at those top 50. So half will have 4 top 50 picks and the other half will have only 3. In a 16 team league the 1st 3 rounds = 48 players.
I have played in all of these formats. But because I like competitive parity above all else I prefer 12 team leagues. Especially if you are playing dynasty.. I found I do not like the disparity between the have and the have nots in 14-16 team dynasty leagues. Even when I was one of the haves. I do have teams in 12 team leagues where I consider myself a have. But the dynamics have more parity imo and the have nots can quickly turn things around still with some decent moves. It is next to impossible to get someone to trade a top 50 player in a 14-16 team league because they only have 2-3 of them. Or 4-5 if they are lucky.. then obviously at MUCH greater advantage than everyone else if they do. But again what are you going to give for a top 50 player in these leagues? When you only have 2-3 top 50 players yourself. And if you can swing a deal will that actualy really help you?
Anyhow..
Then ppl will tailor the scoring systems using PPR and high scoring IDP as a way to fabricate more depth of parity. And those ideas do have merit. I however have pet peeves against doctoring scoring systems when 9 times out of 10 I prefer all players to get rewarded the same points for the same accomplishment regardless of thier poisition.
So 12 team leagues for me. Except for Anarchy league which is 16 teams. But it is redraft and total points with doctored scoring system to create parity between positions. It being a total points league makes these things I normaly find bad good. But I would hate it playing head to head.
two_dollars
Footballguy
I am playing 1 league this year. It is a 10 team PPR.
I would not at all mind if it were expanded to 12, I would support it.
I would not at all mind if it were expanded to 12, I would support it.
billjohnson
Footballguy
I think the reason 12 teams is the most common format is because it has the most balance between starters and depth compared to the other options.As already mentioned any less than 12 teams turns into a stud shuffler where picking your starting lineup becomes more important than anything else. Your best player gets injured you still will probably have another guy who you would start over him in some match ups anyways. And the WW will have decent players available for replacement.14-16 team leagues are more challenging to draft and manage. So I like that about them. However these leagues also spread the starting talent more thinly across the league. For example instead of having 4-6 core players on your team like in a 12 team league you instead will likely only have 3-4 stars on your team. So the 14-16 team leagues become dominated by having that 1-2 stars who are better than everyone else. As the depth of stars on other teams is not enough to make up the difference when each team only has 2-3 of them.Another way to look at is typicaly every season there is a drop off of starting caliber talent somewhere around pick 50. So this means in a 12 team league every team has a fair chance to get 4 of those 50 players. In a 14 team league only half of the teams have a chance at those top 50. So half will have 4 top 50 picks and the other half will have only 3. In a 16 team league the 1st 3 rounds = 48 players.I have played in all of these formats. But because I like competitive parity above all else I prefer 12 team leagues. Especially if you are playing dynasty.. I found I do not like the disparity between the have and the have nots in 14-16 team dynasty leagues. Even when I was one of the haves. I do have teams in 12 team leagues where I consider myself a have. But the dynamics have more parity imo and the have nots can quickly turn things around still with some decent moves. It is next to impossible to get someone to trade a top 50 player in a 14-16 team league because they only have 2-3 of them. Or 4-5 if they are lucky.. then obviously at MUCH greater advantage than everyone else if they do. But again what are you going to give for a top 50 player in these leagues? When you only have 2-3 top 50 players yourself. And if you can swing a deal will that actualy really help you?Anyhow..Then ppl will tailor the scoring systems using PPR and high scoring IDP as a way to fabricate more depth of parity. And those ideas do have merit. I however have pet peeves against doctoring scoring systems when 9 times out of 10 I prefer all players to get rewarded the same points for the same accomplishment regardless of thier poisition.So 12 team leagues for me. Except for Anarchy league which is 16 teams. But it is redraft and total points with doctored scoring system to create parity between positions. It being a total points league makes these things I normaly find bad good. But I would hate it playing head to head.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
In my opinion, the number of teams matters a lot less than the percentage of quality owners. An eight team league with 100 percent active, interested ownership is much, much better than a 12-teamer with 75 percent active owners.
I think leagues do themselves a disservice when they try to find a set number of owners instead of getting quality ownership and seeing how many you end up with. If you have 10 awesome owners...you don't have to find two warm bodies. Just play with 10.
I'm not sure any size has more luck than another, except to say that bad luck could hurt you more in a larger league because your Plan B options are usually worse. So luck might play a bigger role there, but you have to really pay attention to succeed on your later selections, so maybe it balances out.
I've even seen some really interesting six-team formats that bring out good competition. But once you get larger than 16 teams, I'm not sure the 32-team NFL can sustain it-- unless you do separate conferences or something.
I think leagues do themselves a disservice when they try to find a set number of owners instead of getting quality ownership and seeing how many you end up with. If you have 10 awesome owners...you don't have to find two warm bodies. Just play with 10.
I'm not sure any size has more luck than another, except to say that bad luck could hurt you more in a larger league because your Plan B options are usually worse. So luck might play a bigger role there, but you have to really pay attention to succeed on your later selections, so maybe it balances out.
I've even seen some really interesting six-team formats that bring out good competition. But once you get larger than 16 teams, I'm not sure the 32-team NFL can sustain it-- unless you do separate conferences or something.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I think the reason 12 teams is the most common format is because it has the most balance between starters and depth compared to the other options.As already mentioned any less than 12 teams turns into a stud shuffler where picking your starting lineup becomes more important than anything else. Your best player gets injured you still will probably have another guy who you would start over him in some match ups anyways. And the WW will have decent players available for replacement.14-16 team leagues are more challenging to draft and manage. So I like that about them. However these leagues also spread the starting talent more thinly across the league. For example instead of having 4-6 core players on your team like in a 12 team league you instead will likely only have 3-4 stars on your team. So the 14-16 team leagues become dominated by having that 1-2 stars who are better than everyone else. As the depth of stars on other teams is not enough to make up the difference when each team only has 2-3 of them.Another way to look at is typicaly every season there is a drop off of starting caliber talent somewhere around pick 50. So this means in a 12 team league every team has a fair chance to get 4 of those 50 players. In a 14 team league only half of the teams have a chance at those top 50. So half will have 4 top 50 picks and the other half will have only 3. In a 16 team league the 1st 3 rounds = 48 players.I have played in all of these formats. But because I like competitive parity above all else I prefer 12 team leagues. Especially if you are playing dynasty.. I found I do not like the disparity between the have and the have nots in 14-16 team dynasty leagues. Even when I was one of the haves. I do have teams in 12 team leagues where I consider myself a have. But the dynamics have more parity imo and the have nots can quickly turn things around still with some decent moves. It is next to impossible to get someone to trade a top 50 player in a 14-16 team league because they only have 2-3 of them. Or 4-5 if they are lucky.. then obviously at MUCH greater advantage than everyone else if they do. But again what are you going to give for a top 50 player in these leagues? When you only have 2-3 top 50 players yourself. And if you can swing a deal will that actualy really help you?Anyhow..Then ppl will tailor the scoring systems using PPR and high scoring IDP as a way to fabricate more depth of parity. And those ideas do have merit. I however have pet peeves against doctoring scoring systems when 9 times out of 10 I prefer all players to get rewarded the same points for the same accomplishment regardless of thier poisition.So 12 team leagues for me. Except for Anarchy league which is 16 teams. But it is redraft and total points with doctored scoring system to create parity between positions. It being a total points league makes these things I normaly find bad good. But I would hate it playing head to head.
I think you hit on the major points although I've found trading to be much easier to work in 16 team leagues vs. 8 or 10 team leagues.Disparity can be an issue in the larger leagues, although I've seen the bad teams get good through a couple picks or trades, it's rare. IMO, this all comes down to what you want - If you favor waiver wire and balance year to year, the smaller leagues are usually best.If you love finding that hidden gem, drafting him and others to complete your lineup, larger leagues are better.I find if I'm playing with other knowledgeable owners, larger is more fun, but for work type leagues or casual fans, smaller will be better. Not only only because you have to know what you're doing to fill out a competitive team but if you have a large league with owners who may lose interest, your league is going to have trouble. It's easier to keep casual fans active when they are able to start players they know better than asking them to dig into the Jerome Harrison / Ladell Betts / Maurice Morris level.
ace_spaid
Footballguy
i think in the bigger leagues it is more about luck. if you have the texans backup RB and one week he just happens to get 100 yards and a TD then thats luck. if everybodys team is stacked with starters and you truely have to decide what is the better play from week to week then its not luck....
Riffraff
Footballguy
I like 14 teams.
One division where each team plays each other team once.
Easy head-to-head tie-breakers for the play-offs.
13 week regular season. Weeks 14 - 16 are play-offs.
No complaining about an easy division.
Less than half the teams make the play-offs, not watered down.
Good for rivalries as you are guaranteed to play your arch nemesis every year.
Digs a little deeper for players, less startable ones on the waiver wire.
Two more potential trade partners than 12 team leagues.
One division where each team plays each other team once.
Easy head-to-head tie-breakers for the play-offs.
13 week regular season. Weeks 14 - 16 are play-offs.
No complaining about an easy division.
Less than half the teams make the play-offs, not watered down.
Good for rivalries as you are guaranteed to play your arch nemesis every year.
Digs a little deeper for players, less startable ones on the waiver wire.
Two more potential trade partners than 12 team leagues.
Here is the correct answer folks. Seriously. And when you find that high quality league, hold on to it like a Seinfeld mechanic. LAfan68
billjohnson
Footballguy
I do very much agree...but the deal with my league is that we have 12 very active, interested, and competitive owners. Now, two more guys--who are also very interested, active, and competitive--have been lobbying hard to bump the league up to 14 teams. Don't want to throw off what has been a very balanced and fun league for multiple years. Looks like the majority here think that 12 teams is just right. Maybe should apply the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule in my league's case. Thanks again for all the great posts...I appreciate the insight.Bill
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Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
There is no 'ideal' number --- it's just whatever you prefer.
One thing, however, that a lot of people overlook, is the connection between roster size and league size.
What should be happening is that the roster grows as the league shrinks, which helps eliminate some of the complaints people mentioned above.
If you expand your league by a couple teams, put a lot of thought into what the 'ideal' roster configuration is, both in size and composition, rather than the 'ideal' league size.
Try your best to moderate the scarcity at each position.
One thing, however, that a lot of people overlook, is the connection between roster size and league size.
What should be happening is that the roster grows as the league shrinks, which helps eliminate some of the complaints people mentioned above.
If you expand your league by a couple teams, put a lot of thought into what the 'ideal' roster configuration is, both in size and composition, rather than the 'ideal' league size.
Try your best to moderate the scarcity at each position.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This is a good point.For example I would rather play in a league that requires you start 3-4 WR than to have the league give PPR. And I think the starting requirements have more influence on scarcity and therefore player value than a scoring system does.The deeper your rosters the less that is available on WW. So that should be tailored to the leagues owners or the commishioners goals for the league as well. For example in dynasty I prefer DEEP rosters. If your league is more of a work pool redfraft type than shallow rosters might be a better option so those who didn't draft as well are better able to recover.
FUBAR
Footballguy
starters too. If I happen to get into a 10 team league, I want 2 QB, 2-3 RB, 4-5 WRs and 1-2 TEs starting. Total of 11 on offense. 20 QB, 24-32 RBs, 40-50 WRs, I want players beyond the studs to have value. I prefer IDP but don't need it to enjoy the league.
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bentley
Footballguy
This should end the thread.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
After expanding to 16 teams 5 or 6 years ago, we're now looking to reduce back to 14. Fourteen seems to be ideal in terms of scheduling and player apportionment. The only downside is giving up divisional structure, which doesn't mean much to me but does to some of my fellow owners.
And yeah, bigger leagues should oughta do auctions.
And yeah, bigger leagues should oughta do auctions.
AutoMattek
Footballguy
This is why I play in two 16 team leagues only. I drafted him (deangelo) in round 5 last year in one of my leagues (missed out on himi n other). I can see that small leagues take research every week determining which of your pro bowlers to plug in your line up. but 16 teamers have to really prep for the draft. I do mock drafts for smaller leagues but so far if we lose an owner there is always another owner (all local) to take his place.
billjohnson
Footballguy
Seems in bigger leagues it's all about the draft......smaller leagues it's all about the waiver wire. And maybe the 12 team leagues strikes the perfect balance between both...??
Bill
Bill
Manster
Footballguy
my favorite league is 10 teams. it's a bunch of high school/college buddies. it's by far the most fun league i'm in. the number is irrelevent. it's the personalities.
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