What is wrong with the Jets defense (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

Going into this season, most people assumed that the Jets defense would be stronger than the Jets offense. After all, the Jets best player is on defense (Vilma), and in 2004 this unit posted 7 second half shutouts.

The Jets haven't had their bye yet like most teams, but here are some rankings to chew on:

30th in points allowed

32nd in yards allowed

30th in passing yards allowed

31st in rushing yards allowed

32nd in rushing TDs allowed

24th in rushing yards per attempt allowed

22nd in passing yards per attempt allowed

The defense has arguably been the worst in the league this year. The 49ers are the only real competition there.

This, of course, is a bit surprising when you consider the personnel from the 2004 team that 4th in points allowed and 7th in yards allowed. A defense that allowed 10 points through 59 minutes against the Chargers (and would have allowed 10 if not for the late hit 4th down call on Eric Barton) in a road playoff game, and only 10 net points (D scored a TD) against the Steelers in regulation in another road playoff game. The Jets D was excellent in 2004.

DE: John Abraham - GONE

DE: Shaun Ellis - still a starter

DT: Jason Ferguson - GONE

DT: DeWayne Robertson - still a starter

OLB: Victor Hobson - still a starter

MLB: Jonathon Vilma - still a starter

OLB: Eric Barton - still a starter

CB: Donnie Abraham - GONE

CB: David Barrett - still there, but injured; has played 5 games

FS: Eric Coleman - still a starter

SS: Reggie Tongue - GONE

The Jets upgraded by replacing Tongue with Kerry Rhodes. The Jets replaced Donnie Abraham with Kevin Dyson/Justin Miller, and replaced Barrett with Barrett/Miller. The Jets rotate the three corners, when healthy. Abraham was very good, and Barrett had a great year in 2004, but Dyson and Miller aren't too shabby either. Overall, I'd consider the secondaries a wash at worst.

The LBs all remain, with Bryan Thomas joining as a 4th LB. Thomas was a backup DE for the '04 Jets team. Kimo von Oelhoffen was supposed to be a very good addition, and was probably considered on par with Jason Ferguson before this year. The loss of Abraham has been huge, especially because of the Jets failure to get to the quarterback. The Jets have 13 sacks in 8 games, and their 10 sacks through 7 games would have ranked tied for last in the league. They're currently last among teams with 8 games played.

8 of the Jets 11 starters were on the 2004 team (Rhodes, Miller and von Oelhoffen), and seven of them were starters (Thomas). The team was pretty young too -- Vilma, Hobson, Coleman were very young, and Robertson, Barton and Ellis should be in the primes of their careers.

Unless Abraham is the difference between an excellent defense and a terrible one -- and I don't think you can legitimately say that -- I'm left with the conclusion that it's not personnel. Yes, Abraham was a huge loss, magnified by the Jets failure to generate a pass rush. But take away Brian Urlacher and put him on the 49ers, and the 49ers don't have an excellent defense and the Bears sure don't have a terrible one. And Abraham's not as good or valuable a player as Urlacher.

Lots of Jets fans have been piling on the big 800 lb gorilla I've avoided naming, the 3-4 scheme. I think fans have overreacted to the impact the 3-4 should have had, and people were very nervous about it in the pre-season. In general, 3-4 defenses have had more success in recent years than 4-3 defenses. Four of the last five defenses to win a Super Bowl had used the 3-4, despite it clearly being in the minority of base packages for most teams.

But something's not working for the Jets. I don't believe that Donnie Henderson was an excellent DC (he wasn't) or that Eric Mangini/Bob Sutton don't know anything about defense (they do). But it's hard to know where else to point to when a defense has looked as bad as this one has looked, which is exactly what the numbers portray. I've avoided mentioning 2005 because of all the injuries that struck the team, but this was a very good defense two years ago. Now it's the pits. Thoughts?

 

[Bri]

I think Mangini had a bend but don't break mentality with the Pats D and that's come over with him. Think back to last year or some of those Supe Ds, they weren't ranked very high.

I think these type Ds(BB and BP brethren) need a top passrushing OLB to bring the knockout punch. Seymour's great games aside, I often feel that way about the Pats too.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I think Mangini had a bend but don't break mentality with the Pats D and that's come over with him. Think back to last year or some of those Supe Ds, they weren't ranked very high.I think these type Ds(BB and BP brethren) need a top passrushing OLB to bring the knockout punch. Seymour's great games aside, I often feel that way about the Pats too.

In 2001, when the Patriots weren't that good, yes their D wasn't highly ranked. But when New England was excellent, during the two 14-2 years, they ranked 1st and 2nd in points allowed. They ranked a bit lower in yards allowed (but still top ten), and the 2003 pass D led the league in TDs allowed, INTs forced and yards per attempt. The 2006 Jets pass D is horrible -- it allowed 199 yards to Harrington in the 4th quarter, and about 170 to Kitna in the 4th quarter.

 

[Jene Bramel]

It's all about the personnel within the scheme, IMO.

Starts up front. Kimo and Ellis are reasonable 3-4 ends, but the Jets don't have a NT. That allows teams to get bodies on their two ILB, Vilma and Barton, who are among the best players on the unit. As a result, teams gash the Jets up the middle a great majority of the time on simple rushes up the middle. The OLB, Hobson and Thomas, bring very little pressure and allow opposing teams to torch the poor (and injured) Jet corners. One of the few playmakers, Kerry Rhodes, is easily gameplanned against (rolling protection his way) or neutralized when needed in two deep coverage to help the corners out.

They'll grow into the scheme, but even that improved comfort level won't improve the results much until they find a consistent pass rush, NT, and improve their corner play.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Going into this season, most people assumed that the Jets defense would be stronger than the Jets offense. After all, the Jets best player is on defense (Vilma), and in 2004 this unit posted 7 second half shutouts.

The Jets haven't had their bye yet like most teams, but here are some rankings to chew on:

30th in points allowed

32nd in yards allowed

30th in passing yards allowed

31st in rushing yards allowed

32nd in rushing TDs allowed

24th in rushing yards per attempt allowed

22nd in passing yards per attempt allowed

The defense has arguably been the worst in the league this year. The 49ers are the only real competition there.

This, of course, is a bit surprising when you consider the personnel from the 2004 team that 4th in points allowed and 7th in yards allowed. A defense that allowed 10 points through 59 minutes against the Chargers (and would have allowed 10 if not for the late hit 4th down call on Eric Barton) in a road playoff game, and only 10 net points (D scored a TD) against the Steelers in regulation in another road playoff game. The Jets D was excellent in 2004.

DE: John Abraham - GONE

DE: Shaun Ellis - still a starter

DT: Jason Ferguson - GONE

DT: DeWayne Robertson - still a starter

OLB: Victor Hobson - still a starter

MLB: Jonathon Vilma - still a starter

OLB: Eric Barton - still a starter

CB: Donnie Abraham - GONE

CB: David Barrett - still there, but injured; has played 5 games

FS: Eric Coleman - still a starter

SS: Reggie Tongue - GONE

The Jets upgraded by replacing Tongue with Kerry Rhodes. The Jets replaced Donnie Abraham with Kevin Dyson/Justin Miller, and replaced Barrett with Barrett/Miller. The Jets rotate the three corners, when healthy. Abraham was very good, and Barrett had a great year in 2004, but Dyson and Miller aren't too shabby either. Overall, I'd consider the secondaries a wash at worst.

The LBs all remain, with Bryan Thomas joining as a 4th LB. Thomas was a backup DE for the '04 Jets team. Kimo von Oelhoffen was supposed to be a very good addition, and was probably considered on par with Jason Ferguson before this year. The loss of Abraham has been huge, especially because of the Jets failure to get to the quarterback. The Jets have 13 sacks in 8 games, and their 10 sacks through 7 games would have ranked tied for last in the league. They're currently last among teams with 8 games played.

8 of the Jets 11 starters were on the 2004 team (Rhodes, Miller and von Oelhoffen), and seven of them were starters (Thomas). The team was pretty young too -- Vilma, Hobson, Coleman were very young, and Robertson, Barton and Ellis should be in the primes of their careers.

Unless Abraham is the difference between an excellent defense and a terrible one -- and I don't think you can legitimately say that -- I'm left with the conclusion that it's not personnel. Yes, Abraham was a huge loss, magnified by the Jets failure to generate a pass rush. But take away Brian Urlacher and put him on the 49ers, and the 49ers don't have an excellent defense and the Bears sure don't have a terrible one. And Abraham's not as good or valuable a player as Urlacher.

Lots of Jets fans have been piling on the big 800 lb gorilla I've avoided naming, the 3-4 scheme. I think fans have overreacted to the impact the 3-4 should have had, and people were very nervous about it in the pre-season. In general, 3-4 defenses have had more success in recent years than 4-3 defenses. Four of the last five defenses to win a Super Bowl had used the 3-4, despite it clearly being in the minority of base packages for most teams.

But something's not working for the Jets. I don't believe that Donnie Henderson was an excellent DC (he wasn't) or that Eric Mangini/Bob Sutton don't know anything about defense (they do). But it's hard to know where else to point to when a defense has looked as bad as this one has looked, which is exactly what the numbers portray. I've avoided mentioning 2005 because of all the injuries that struck the team, but this was a very good defense two years ago. Now it's the pits. Thoughts?

JAbraham = Best Pass RusherFerguson = Best Run Stopper (on the line)

DAbraham = Best Pass Defender (arguably)

Add them together and you take one big hit to the Jets D...

I don't see it as that simple. They didn't lose Shaun Ellis (Best overall DL), Jonathon Vilma (best overall IDP) or Eric Coleman (best playmaking DB). They lost three out of 11 players, but they added Kimo (guy who won a SB and was supposed to be pretty good at eating up blocks), Dyson/Miller (two pretty good pass defenders, although a downgrade from Abraham) and Rhodes (way better than Tongue).The defense didn't go from excellent to good, or good to bad, but from excellent to horrible. That's a big, big drop. Bryan Thomas has been a big dissapointment, as he could have been the big time pass rusher the Jets needed. Of course, [Herm] his father worked in the coal mines so I'm sure Thomas will become a good NFL player [/Herm]. I think a majority of the blame has to go on the 3-4.

The Jets aren't stopping anyone on the ground, which is backwards. With three lineman eating up blocks and two OLBs pushing back those Ts, the two ILBs are supposed to be free to roam. Barton and Vilma are very good, but they're not the problem.

Robertson hasn't been great, but not bad. CJ Mosley has been pretty decent in spurts. But at NT, the Jets are weak. Ellis has been nonexistent, but that's not unusual if he's a 3-4 DE eating up lots of blockers -- I don't know if he's doing that, but I doubt it. But the blame has to fall on one of Robertson/Ellis/von Oelhoffen/Hobson/Thomas. Most people will be quick to blame Robertson and Thomas (and maybe even Ellis) because they were first round picks, but when you're getting run over like this, none of them are doing their jobs well.

I think it's a scheme thing, because these guys are not bad players. Thomas is garbage, but Robertson and Ellis played like pro bowlers in 2004.

The Jets need a pass rushing 3-4 backer in the worst way, but it's equally important to add a NT and/or DE. I actually think Robertson has the agility to play as a 3-4 DE -- remember he's "baby Sapp", and Sapp played a 3-4 DE in Oakland -- but the Jets personnel right now just doesn't match the system.

Everyone predicted this would happen, so you know Mangini was aware of this. The question I have, is whether or not Mangini just thought they were wrong, or if it was something else. The Jets have also avoided the blitz like the plague, but blitzed effectively (for the first time in several weeks) in the latter stages of the game this weekend.

 

[Chase Stuart]

It's all about the personnel within the scheme, IMO. Starts up front. Kimo and Ellis are reasonable 3-4 ends, but the Jets don't have a NT. That allows teams to get bodies on their two ILB, Vilma and Barton, who are among the best players on the unit. As a result, teams gash the Jets up the middle a great majority of the time on simple rushes up the middle. The OLB, Hobson and Thomas, bring very little pressure and allow opposing teams to torch the poor (and injured) Jet corners. One of the few playmakers, Kerry Rhodes, is easily gameplanned against (rolling protection his way) or neutralized when needed in two deep coverage to help the corners out.They'll grow into the scheme, but even that improved comfort level won't improve the results much until they find a consistent pass rush, NT, and improve their corner play.

The Jets have definitely had some issues stopping runs up the gut. I'll disagree with you about the corner play, though, because I think Dyson and Miller are pretty good. If you make them cover for three seconds instead of five, they'll be more than good enough.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

It's all about the personnel within the scheme, IMO. Starts up front. Kimo and Ellis are reasonable 3-4 ends, but the Jets don't have a NT. That allows teams to get bodies on their two ILB, Vilma and Barton, who are among the best players on the unit. As a result, teams gash the Jets up the middle a great majority of the time on simple rushes up the middle. The OLB, Hobson and Thomas, bring very little pressure and allow opposing teams to torch the poor (and injured) Jet corners. One of the few playmakers, Kerry Rhodes, is easily gameplanned against (rolling protection his way) or neutralized when needed in two deep coverage to help the corners out.They'll grow into the scheme, but even that improved comfort level won't improve the results much until they find a consistent pass rush, NT, and improve their corner play.

The Jets have definitely had some issues stopping runs up the gut. I'll disagree with you about the corner play, though, because I think Dyson and Miller are pretty good. If you make them cover for three seconds instead of five, they'll be more than good enough.

I think Jene hit it. If Mangini was in for the quick fix, he would adapt his system to fit his players. My guess is that Mangini is taking the long view. He will try to implement a flexible system that can flip between a 3-4 and a 4-3, emphasizing intelligent versatile players. Right now, he is still figuring out who is in his long term plans and who isn't. However, just because a player was effective iin his old system, doesn't mean he will be in the future.As to stopping the run- or not stopping the run- take a look a NE. They had problems stopping the run after their first title defense and also in the first half of last year. The 3-4 really needs an extremely powerful NT to shut down the run.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Going into this season, most people assumed that the Jets defense would be stronger than the Jets offense. After all, the Jets best player is on defense (Vilma), and in 2004 this unit posted 7 second half shutouts.

The Jets haven't had their bye yet like most teams, but here are some rankings to chew on:

30th in points allowed

32nd in yards allowed

30th in passing yards allowed

31st in rushing yards allowed

32nd in rushing TDs allowed

24th in rushing yards per attempt allowed

22nd in passing yards per attempt allowed

The defense has arguably been the worst in the league this year. The 49ers are the only real competition there.

This, of course, is a bit surprising when you consider the personnel from the 2004 team that 4th in points allowed and 7th in yards allowed. A defense that allowed 10 points through 59 minutes against the Chargers (and would have allowed 10 if not for the late hit 4th down call on Eric Barton) in a road playoff game, and only 10 net points (D scored a TD) against the Steelers in regulation in another road playoff game. The Jets D was excellent in 2004.

DE: John Abraham - GONE

DE: Shaun Ellis - still a starter

DT: Jason Ferguson - GONE

DT: DeWayne Robertson - still a starter

OLB: Victor Hobson - still a starter

MLB: Jonathon Vilma - still a starter

OLB: Eric Barton - still a starter

CB: Donnie Abraham - GONE

CB: David Barrett - still there, but injured; has played 5 games

FS: Eric Coleman - still a starter

SS: Reggie Tongue - GONE

The Jets upgraded by replacing Tongue with Kerry Rhodes. The Jets replaced Donnie Abraham with Kevin Dyson/Justin Miller, and replaced Barrett with Barrett/Miller. The Jets rotate the three corners, when healthy. Abraham was very good, and Barrett had a great year in 2004, but Dyson and Miller aren't too shabby either. Overall, I'd consider the secondaries a wash at worst.

The LBs all remain, with Bryan Thomas joining as a 4th LB. Thomas was a backup DE for the '04 Jets team. Kimo von Oelhoffen was supposed to be a very good addition, and was probably considered on par with Jason Ferguson before this year. The loss of Abraham has been huge, especially because of the Jets failure to get to the quarterback. The Jets have 13 sacks in 8 games, and their 10 sacks through 7 games would have ranked tied for last in the league. They're currently last among teams with 8 games played.

8 of the Jets 11 starters were on the 2004 team (Rhodes, Miller and von Oelhoffen), and seven of them were starters (Thomas). The team was pretty young too -- Vilma, Hobson, Coleman were very young, and Robertson, Barton and Ellis should be in the primes of their careers.

Unless Abraham is the difference between an excellent defense and a terrible one -- and I don't think you can legitimately say that -- I'm left with the conclusion that it's not personnel. Yes, Abraham was a huge loss, magnified by the Jets failure to generate a pass rush. But take away Brian Urlacher and put him on the 49ers, and the 49ers don't have an excellent defense and the Bears sure don't have a terrible one. And Abraham's not as good or valuable a player as Urlacher.

Lots of Jets fans have been piling on the big 800 lb gorilla I've avoided naming, the 3-4 scheme. I think fans have overreacted to the impact the 3-4 should have had, and people were very nervous about it in the pre-season. In general, 3-4 defenses have had more success in recent years than 4-3 defenses. Four of the last five defenses to win a Super Bowl had used the 3-4, despite it clearly being in the minority of base packages for most teams.

But something's not working for the Jets. I don't believe that Donnie Henderson was an excellent DC (he wasn't) or that Eric Mangini/Bob Sutton don't know anything about defense (they do). But it's hard to know where else to point to when a defense has looked as bad as this one has looked, which is exactly what the numbers portray. I've avoided mentioning 2005 because of all the injuries that struck the team, but this was a very good defense two years ago. Now it's the pits. Thoughts?

JAbraham = Best Pass RusherFerguson = Best Run Stopper (on the line)

DAbraham = Best Pass Defender (arguably)

Add them together and you take one big hit to the Jets D...

I don't see it as that simple. They didn't lose Shaun Ellis (Best overall DL), Jonathon Vilma (best overall IDP) or Eric Coleman (best playmaking DB). They lost three out of 11 players, but they added Kimo (guy who won a SB and was supposed to be pretty good at eating up blocks), Dyson/Miller (two pretty good pass defenders, although a downgrade from Abraham) and Rhodes (way better than Tongue).The defense didn't go from excellent to good, or good to bad, but from excellent to horrible.

I would have to disagree that the Jets defense was excellent last year. They were more a middle of the pack defense last year, and their stats appear to support this. This is why those losses were such a big hit to the D, they didn't have the talent to give away on D. The Jets went from giving up 3.9 YPC to opposing runners in 2005, to giving up 4.4 YPC to opposing runners in 2006. We all know it starts with stopping the run. Jason Ferguson's loss, has been Dallas gain. As the Cowboys have went from giving up 4.2 YPC in 2005, down to giving up just 3.3 YPC in 2006. A run clogging nose tackle is gold in the NFL...which is why guys like Ted Washington, Grady Jackson and Sam Adams continue to hang around. While Vilma may still be there, ask Ray Lewis how important that big body playing in front of him is. Lewis screamed enough about this in the offseason til the Ravens drafted Haloti Ngata of Oregon. Which made a huge difference this year...

I'm comparing the team to the one from 2004, not 2005. The 2004 Jets allowed 3.6 YPC to opposing runners in 2004, fourth best in the league. Dallas added Jason Ferguson after the 2004 season, and allowed 4.15 YPC in 2005 (with Ferguson) and 3.45 YPC in 2004 (without Ferguson).

 

[Chase Stuart]

Going into this season, most people assumed that the Jets defense would be stronger than the Jets offense. After all, the Jets best player is on defense (Vilma), and in 2004 this unit posted 7 second half shutouts.

The Jets haven't had their bye yet like most teams, but here are some rankings to chew on:

30th in points allowed

32nd in yards allowed

30th in passing yards allowed

31st in rushing yards allowed

32nd in rushing TDs allowed

24th in rushing yards per attempt allowed

22nd in passing yards per attempt allowed

The defense has arguably been the worst in the league this year. The 49ers are the only real competition there.

This, of course, is a bit surprising when you consider the personnel from the 2004 team that 4th in points allowed and 7th in yards allowed. A defense that allowed 10 points through 59 minutes against the Chargers (and would have allowed 10 if not for the late hit 4th down call on Eric Barton) in a road playoff game, and only 10 net points (D scored a TD) against the Steelers in regulation in another road playoff game. The Jets D was excellent in 2004.

DE: John Abraham - GONE

DE: Shaun Ellis - still a starter

DT: Jason Ferguson - GONE

DT: DeWayne Robertson - still a starter

OLB: Victor Hobson - still a starter

MLB: Jonathon Vilma - still a starter

OLB: Eric Barton - still a starter

CB: Donnie Abraham - GONE

CB: David Barrett - still there, but injured; has played 5 games

FS: Eric Coleman - still a starter

SS: Reggie Tongue - GONE

The Jets upgraded by replacing Tongue with Kerry Rhodes. The Jets replaced Donnie Abraham with Kevin Dyson/Justin Miller, and replaced Barrett with Barrett/Miller. The Jets rotate the three corners, when healthy. Abraham was very good, and Barrett had a great year in 2004, but Dyson and Miller aren't too shabby either. Overall, I'd consider the secondaries a wash at worst.

The LBs all remain, with Bryan Thomas joining as a 4th LB. Thomas was a backup DE for the '04 Jets team. Kimo von Oelhoffen was supposed to be a very good addition, and was probably considered on par with Jason Ferguson before this year. The loss of Abraham has been huge, especially because of the Jets failure to get to the quarterback. The Jets have 13 sacks in 8 games, and their 10 sacks through 7 games would have ranked tied for last in the league. They're currently last among teams with 8 games played.

8 of the Jets 11 starters were on the 2004 team (Rhodes, Miller and von Oelhoffen), and seven of them were starters (Thomas). The team was pretty young too -- Vilma, Hobson, Coleman were very young, and Robertson, Barton and Ellis should be in the primes of their careers.

Unless Abraham is the difference between an excellent defense and a terrible one -- and I don't think you can legitimately say that -- I'm left with the conclusion that it's not personnel. Yes, Abraham was a huge loss, magnified by the Jets failure to generate a pass rush. But take away Brian Urlacher and put him on the 49ers, and the 49ers don't have an excellent defense and the Bears sure don't have a terrible one. And Abraham's not as good or valuable a player as Urlacher.

Lots of Jets fans have been piling on the big 800 lb gorilla I've avoided naming, the 3-4 scheme. I think fans have overreacted to the impact the 3-4 should have had, and people were very nervous about it in the pre-season. In general, 3-4 defenses have had more success in recent years than 4-3 defenses. Four of the last five defenses to win a Super Bowl had used the 3-4, despite it clearly being in the minority of base packages for most teams.

But something's not working for the Jets. I don't believe that Donnie Henderson was an excellent DC (he wasn't) or that Eric Mangini/Bob Sutton don't know anything about defense (they do). But it's hard to know where else to point to when a defense has looked as bad as this one has looked, which is exactly what the numbers portray. I've avoided mentioning 2005 because of all the injuries that struck the team, but this was a very good defense two years ago. Now it's the pits. Thoughts?

JAbraham = Best Pass RusherFerguson = Best Run Stopper (on the line)

DAbraham = Best Pass Defender (arguably)

Add them together and you take one big hit to the Jets D...

I don't see it as that simple. They didn't lose Shaun Ellis (Best overall DL), Jonathon Vilma (best overall IDP) or Eric Coleman (best playmaking DB). They lost three out of 11 players, but they added Kimo (guy who won a SB and was supposed to be pretty good at eating up blocks), Dyson/Miller (two pretty good pass defenders, although a downgrade from Abraham) and Rhodes (way better than Tongue).The defense didn't go from excellent to good, or good to bad, but from excellent to horrible.

I would have to disagree that the Jets defense was excellent last year. They were more a middle of the pack defense last year, and their stats appear to support this. This is why those losses were such a big hit to the D, they didn't have the talent to give away on D. The Jets went from giving up 3.9 YPC to opposing runners in 2005, to giving up 4.4 YPC to opposing runners in 2006. We all know it starts with stopping the run. Jason Ferguson's loss, has been Dallas gain. As the Cowboys have went from giving up 4.2 YPC in 2005, down to giving up just 3.3 YPC in 2006. A run clogging nose tackle is gold in the NFL...which is why guys like Ted Washington, Grady Jackson and Sam Adams continue to hang around. While Vilma may still be there, ask Ray Lewis how important that big body playing in front of him is. Lewis screamed enough about this in the offseason til the Ravens drafted Haloti Ngata of Oregon. Which made a huge difference this year...

I'm comparing the team to the one from 2004, not 2005. The 2004 Jets allowed 3.6 YPC to opposing runners in 2004, fourth best in the league. Dallas added Jason Ferguson after the 2004 season, and allowed 4.15 YPC in 2005 (with Ferguson) and 3.45 YPC in 2004 (without Ferguson).

OIC...Just taking a quick guess, I would bet not having Pennington and Martin for large portions of the '05 year had alot to do with this. In that the D was spending a much larger time on the playing field than they did in '04. The longer you keep them on the field, the less effective they are.

Yes, that's largely what happened. I also think the effort wasn't there in some games, because of the dismal outlook on the season.

 

[Mordraken]

Just a quick note... you compare their defense to 2004, but neglected to mention in 2005 they were absolultey horrible too. Yes, they were ranked 12th overall, but that was due to their pass defense being ranked #2 (allowing only 172 yards/game). The reason it was so good was because their run defense was ranked #29 allowing 137 yards per game (only 7 yards less than the league's worst). For passing attempts, their opponents threw an average of 29 times a game (3rd fewest in the NFL).

From a takeaway perspective, they were in the middle of the league with a decent 21 interceptions (top 5) but only 7 fumbles (worst in the league).

I'm about as surprised that the Jets have a bad defense as I am that the Packers have a bad defense... which is to say not that surprised. 2004 was the abberation, not the trend.

 

[Reaper]

Just a quick note... you compare their defense to 2004, but neglected to mention in 2005 they were absolultey horrible too. Yes, they were ranked 12th overall, but that was due to their pass defense being ranked #2 (allowing only 172 yards/game). The reason it was so good was because their run defense was ranked #29 allowing 137 yards per game (only 7 yards less than the league's worst). For passing attempts, their opponents threw an average of 29 times a game (3rd fewest in the NFL).From a takeaway perspective, they were in the middle of the league with a decent 21 interceptions (top 5) but only 7 fumbles (worst in the league).I'm about as surprised that the Jets have a bad defense as I am that the Packers have a bad defense... which is to say not that surprised. 2004 was the abberation, not the trend.

The obvious answer is a small DT and a small ILB for now as well as installing a new system in a rebuilding year......Question - Anyone know if Bellichik installed the 3-4 in his 1st year with the Pats or did he wait till he had better pieces? What about with the Browns?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Just a quick note... you compare their defense to 2004, but neglected to mention in 2005 they were absolultey horrible too. Yes, they were ranked 12th overall, but that was due to their pass defense being ranked #2 (allowing only 172 yards/game). The reason it was so good was because their run defense was ranked #29 allowing 137 yards per game (only 7 yards less than the league's worst). For passing attempts, their opponents threw an average of 29 times a game (3rd fewest in the NFL).From a takeaway perspective, they were in the middle of the league with a decent 21 interceptions (top 5) but only 7 fumbles (worst in the league).I'm about as surprised that the Jets have a bad defense as I am that the Packers have a bad defense... which is to say not that surprised. 2004 was the abberation, not the trend.

2005 doesn't serve as a useful comparison, for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Just a quick note... you compare their defense to 2004, but neglected to mention in 2005 they were absolultey horrible too. Yes, they were ranked 12th overall, but that was due to their pass defense being ranked #2 (allowing only 172 yards/game). The reason it was so good was because their run defense was ranked #29 allowing 137 yards per game (only 7 yards less than the league's worst). For passing attempts, their opponents threw an average of 29 times a game (3rd fewest in the NFL).From a takeaway perspective, they were in the middle of the league with a decent 21 interceptions (top 5) but only 7 fumbles (worst in the league).I'm about as surprised that the Jets have a bad defense as I am that the Packers have a bad defense... which is to say not that surprised. 2004 was the abberation, not the trend.

The obvious answer is a small DT and a small ILB for now as well as installing a new system in a rebuilding year......Question - Anyone know if Bellichik installed the 3-4 in his 1st year with the Pats or did he wait till he had better pieces? What about with the Browns?

I don't think the ILB position is a problem at all. Vilma's an excellent linebacker, and more than makes up for his relatively lack of size with other abilities. I know you don't think the Jets would be better with Marvin Jones instead of Vilma right now.Anyway, I think there's more to it than the small DT. If the Jets got a big DT, I don't think they'd move up from bottom five to top five. This defense is missing quite a few parts, but it's tough to put my finger on it.I think Bryan Thomas and/or Ellis need to be replaced.

 

[Mordraken]

Last year a fantasy football mag said that for the Jets defense to succeed they would need to generate a pass rush with their front four. That didn't happen. Perhaps it's the same this year.

 

[Reaper]

Just a quick note... you compare their defense to 2004, but neglected to mention in 2005 they were absolultey horrible too. Yes, they were ranked 12th overall, but that was due to their pass defense being ranked #2 (allowing only 172 yards/game). The reason it was so good was because their run defense was ranked #29 allowing 137 yards per game (only 7 yards less than the league's worst). For passing attempts, their opponents threw an average of 29 times a game (3rd fewest in the NFL).From a takeaway perspective, they were in the middle of the league with a decent 21 interceptions (top 5) but only 7 fumbles (worst in the league).I'm about as surprised that the Jets have a bad defense as I am that the Packers have a bad defense... which is to say not that surprised. 2004 was the abberation, not the trend.

The obvious answer is a small DT and a small ILB for now as well as installing a new system in a rebuilding year......Question - Anyone know if Bellichik installed the 3-4 in his 1st year with the Pats or did he wait till he had better pieces? What about with the Browns?

I don't think the ILB position is a problem at all. Vilma's an excellent linebacker, and more than makes up for his relatively lack of size with other abilities. I know you don't think the Jets would be better with Marvin Jones instead of Vilma right now.Anyway, I think there's more to it than the small DT. If the Jets got a big DT, I don't think they'd move up from bottom five to top five. This defense is missing quite a few parts, but it's tough to put my finger on it.I think Bryan Thomas and/or Ellis need to be replaced.

Sure. Offseason has to bring a Big DT AND a real good OLB. I'll change my avatar then.It's rebuilding. See what you got now and change the parts for next season.They're also out of position at times and I'm sure Crennel knew the best ways to attack this week.Of course the offense was no help at all.

 

[Judge Smails]

Nothing, according to Joe Jurevicious