What makes Cliff Lee so dominant? (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

He doesn't have a Randy Johnson fastball. He doesn't have a Bert Blyleven curveball. He doesn't have a Johan Santana change-up. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't appear as if he has any one devastating pitch.

Is it entirely a matter of keeping batters off balance combined with elite command?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

First pitch strikes and nibbling on the corners with very above average stuff.

 

[Darth Cheney]

FWIW, Mitch Williams, on the Jim Rome show today, said that Lee's dominance came from his ability to locate his fastball; that he does that sooo much better than anyone else in the Majors.

 

[RnR]

Is it entirely a matter of keeping batters off balance combined with elite command?

 

[Hoos First]

Is it entirely a matter of keeping batters off balance combined with elite command?

Greg Maddux

 

[Raider Nation]

Is it entirely a matter of keeping batters off balance combined with elite command?

Greg Maddux

Glavine came to mind for me, but with more giddyup on the heater.

 

[Raider Nation]

Right on cue.... he's getting knocked around like he's Chan Ho Park.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Hopefully he's headed for his first playoff loss tonight.

And he's no Maddux, let's not get crazy.

 

[coolnerd]

Is it entirely a matter of keeping batters off balance combined with elite command?

Other thing is that he has no "tells" in his motion to the plate. As close to exact same delevery, arm slot that I can remember.

 

[coolnerd]

Hopefully he's headed for his first playoff loss tonight.

And he's no Maddux, let's not get crazy.

His total career won't be Maddox or Glavine, but for relative short three year stretch he is at that level. And I lived in ATL when those guys turned that franchise around. Honestly, I am little scared of the Rangers giving him a long-term deal since as little as three years ago he could be easily had in trade for a Brad Lidge. Think he is a guy having a dominate phase of his career versus a true dominate career. If he stays Ranger of course I will hope that I am wrong.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7265709.html

Yeah, and tonight he is just another guy.

 

[Raider Nation]

Wow, what an epic beatdown. That legendary playoff ERA took a pounding.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Hopefully he's headed for his first playoff loss tonight.

 

[Eephus]

Dibs on the "what makes C.J. Wilson so dominant?" thread for tomorrow

 

[coolnerd]

Dibs on the "what makes C.J. Wilson so dominant?" thread for tomorrow

You guys stop with the negative karma stuff.

 

[Detroit Fan 365]

Dibs on the "what makes C.J. Wilson so dominant?" thread for tomorrow

You guys stop with the negative karma stuff.

Giants have already won the series the high all-mighty baseball genius never gets this wrong(Dr. D for those of you who didn't know better call somebody.)

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Dibs on the "what makes C.J. Wilson so dominant?" thread for tomorrow

You guys stop with the negative karma stuff.

Giants have already won the series the high all-mighty baseball genius never gets this wrong(Dr. D for those of you who didn't know better call somebody.)

No jinxing please.

 

[Jambi]

Variance is going to catchup with him. He's just having a hot 3 years. I drafted him in the 34th round in 2008...when he was 28 going on 29. What was more of a head-scratcher, Lee in 2008 or Bautista this year?

 

[whoknew]

He doesn't have a Randy Johnson fastball. He doesn't have a Bert Blyleven curveball. He doesn't have a Johan Santana change-up. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't appear as if he has any one devastating pitch.

Is it entirely a matter of keeping batters off balance combined with elite command?

Incorrect. He developed a cutter that is devastating.

"I think what is separating him from any other pitcher right now is really his cutter, how late it is," Pettitte said. "Maybe people talk about him that he doesn't have dominating stuff, that cutter has to be dominating. It has to be moving extremely well for guys to have such a hard time handling it. I think at this stage right now that's what's separating him from everyone else is to be able to cut that ball like he's doing to both sides of the plate. It has to be moving extremely late for guys not to be able to get their barrel on it the way they're not doing."

 

[Genedoc]

Dominating <> overpowering. Greg Maddux never overpowered anyone, but he dominated the game for more than a decade by hitting his location with astounding frequency, and late movement. When you have the command/movement that Maddux had, and Lee and Halladay have in today's game, you don't walk people. Look at Maddux, Lee, and Halladay's K/BB ratios. They're silly. 5, 6, 7, 8, to 1 for Maddux and Halladay, and an utterly ridiculous 7, 10, 14, and 8 to 1 for Lee over the last 4 years. Furthermore, you can always pitch directly to a hitter's weakness. If a dude can't hit low and in but kills middle in, guys like Maddux, Lee and Halladay will hit that low and in spot every time they want to. Average pitchers will hit that spot two-thirds, maybe half of the time they aim for it. And when those average pitchers miss that spot, it's at best a ball, at worst a HR. On the rare occasion that Maddux/Lee/Halladay miss, it's almost always a "safe" miss. Maddux/Lee/Halladay will go weeks without missing their spots and subsequently leaving the ball in a dangerous place. When they do have a game where they miss in the strike zone, they get slapped around just like anyone else.

Also, I mostly agree with coolnerd. Neither Lee nor Halladay will have Maddux's career. But for the last 3-4 years, Lee has been as good as Maddux's "good" years, but not close to Maddux's "great" years. Maddux's "great" years of 1992-1998 were as dominant of a 6 year stretch as you've ever seen in baseball. But I think Lee over the last 3-4 years is an apt comparison to the bulk of Maddux's career. Halladay over the last 6 years has been closer to Maddux's peak, though still a notch below.

 

[Glaven]

Lee's a scrub.