What would happen if low skill workers (fast food, retail, etc) were.. (1 Viewer)

[MaxThreshold]

Opinions mean nothing

These are the facts...

If this entire system, planet wide, doesnt change so that everyones right to happiness is respected by sharing the resources then violent class warfare is inevitable.

The technology and resources exist so that suffering due to poverty can be significantly reduced if not nearly eradicated.

The only thing preventing that is blind greed and selfishness, the driving force behind all of the problems in society be they economical, religious or cultural. We as a species should be way beyond all this petty BS.

Im going to get blasted for these statements and it will usually go something like this....

"Blah blah blah lazy people yakkity yakkity I work harder than anyone yadda yadda yadda entitlement pffft pffft pfft I dont like helping people"

Didn't you just start your own business? Hoping to take on any employees soon?

No, not any time soon at least. I am the sole proprietor abd employee.Why?

Just wondering if you're going to change your mind about this whole thing when you have to take on your first employee(s).

I dont need the government to tell me to treat my employees well.

I already know to do that.

But it sounds like you're advocating just the opposite of that - that the government has to intervene to pay everyone at least, according to the original post, 50K a year.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Look it's easy to pile on here but what Gachi raises is the issue of mechanization and the increasing lack of utility human labor contributes to cheap commodity goods and services. This is an issue many renowned economists have studied for years. Google the BIG.

Having said that yeah, raising minimum salaries to 50k ain't exactly the way to fight this.

Personally I think there should be a combination of increased wages (although not to the tune of 50k), price control of necessities for life and a profit sharing corporate structure to make up the difference.Wages should be at least somewhat commensurate with performance.

That doesn't sound like a very progressive/enlightened position. That's never going to fly.

What are you trying to say?

That wages based on performance go against every progressive thought every made.

 

[MC Gas Money]

Opinions mean nothing

These are the facts...

If this entire system, planet wide, doesnt change so that everyones right to happiness is respected by sharing the resources then violent class warfare is inevitable.

The technology and resources exist so that suffering due to poverty can be significantly reduced if not nearly eradicated.

The only thing preventing that is blind greed and selfishness, the driving force behind all of the problems in society be they economical, religious or cultural. We as a species should be way beyond all this petty BS.

Im going to get blasted for these statements and it will usually go something like this....

"Blah blah blah lazy people yakkity yakkity I work harder than anyone yadda yadda yadda entitlement pffft pffft pfft I dont like helping people"

Didn't you just start your own business? Hoping to take on any employees soon?

No, not any time soon at least. I am the sole proprietor abd employee.Why?

Just wondering if you're going to change your mind about this whole thing when you have to take on your first employee(s).

I dont need the government to tell me to treat my employees well.I already know to do that.

But it sounds like you're advocating just the opposite of that - that the government has to intervene to pay everyone at least, according to the original post, 50K a year.

No, because that wouldnt fix the system. The enture system needs an overhaul.

Im just adressing the idea that something needs to be done.

 

[MC Gas Money]

Look it's easy to pile on here but what Gachi raises is the issue of mechanization and the increasing lack of utility human labor contributes to cheap commodity goods and services. This is an issue many renowned economists have studied for years. Google the BIG.

Having said that yeah, raising minimum salaries to 50k ain't exactly the way to fight this.

Personally I think there should be a combination of increased wages (although not to the tune of 50k), price control of necessities for life and a profit sharing corporate structure to make up the difference.Wages should be at least somewhat commensurate with performance.

That doesn't sound like a very progressive/enlightened position. That's never going to fly.

What are you trying to say?

That wages based on performance go against every progressive thought every made.

Im not trying to be progressive. Im confused by your response.

 

[MC Gas Money]

Im not saying all wages should be based on performance. There should be a minimum to maintain a fair and decent quality of life and beyond that everyone shoulf be able to earn more by doing a better job.

In our current system nobody has incentive to be aby more productive than what they need to keep their job.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Im not saying all wages should be based on performance. There should be a minimum to maintain a fair and decent quality of life and beyond that everyone shoulf be able to earn more by doing a better job.

In our current system nobody has incentive to be aby more productive than what they need to keep their job.

Why would anyone work any harder if we're going to give them a wage for doing the minimum? And a wage, according to you, that already gives them a "fair and decent quality of life". Where is the incentive to work harder in that?

IMO, giving people #### only makes them MORE dependent on YOU and less dependent upon themselves.

 

[MC Gas Money]

Im not saying all wages should be based on performance. There should be a minimum to maintain a fair and decent quality of life and beyond that everyone shoulf be able to earn more by doing a better job.

In our current system nobody has incentive to be aby more productive than what they need to keep their job.

Why would anyone work any harder if we're going to give them a wage for doing the minimum? And a wage, according to you, that already gives them a "fair and decent quality of life". Where is the incentive to work harder in that?

IMO, giving people #### only makes them MORE dependent on YOU and less dependent upon themselves.

No most people dont get a fair wage.

No the system does not work the way you think.

If it doesnt change then we will never evolve as a species. People are still barbarians.

 

[DaVinci]

Let's give everybody a million bucks. Then nobody will be poor.

Then everybody would be 1%ers.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

What would happen if low skill workers (fast food, retail, etc) were paid 50k a year?

It depends on where the money would come from. Is this a tax-and-spend program (funded by the government), or a minimum-wage program (funded by employers)? The results would be quite different in each case. (Or did you have something else in mind?)

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

If this entire system, planet wide, doesnt change so that everyones right to happiness is respected by sharing the resources then violent class warfare is inevitable.

I don't know that it's inevitable. Suppose the rich people who own all the technology therefore also own all the decent weapons. The poor wouldn't be able to revolt very well. You'd end up with something like feudalism, which was a pretty stable system for a long time (until technology was such that the common folk had access to decent weapons).

(I'm not suggesting that futuristic feudalism would be a good system. It would suck. I'm just suggesting that it might not involve violent class warfare.)

The technology and resources exist so that suffering due to poverty can be significantly reduced if not nearly eradicated.

Poverty will always exist in the sense that around 10% of the population will always be in the bottom decile. You're right, though, that we have the technology and resources to prevent starvation-level poverty. The problem is that we're not set up (i.e., incentivized) to distribute enough resources to the people who are starving. This seems like a difficult problem to fix. If anyone comes up with a fix within the next decade or two, my money is on the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation or a similar charity. Which isn't to say that governments should ignore the problem -- but I think they're at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to implementing effective solutions, at least for now.

The only thing preventing that is blind greed and selfishness, the driving force behind all of the problems in society be they economical, religious or cultural. We as a species should be way beyond all this petty BS.

Greed isn't going anywhere. What we need is a system that allows people to climb out of poverty even given that humans are generally greedy. Capitalism has been the most effective solution that we as a species have come up with so far, but it's not perfect, and it may not work nearly as well in the future as it has over the past few hundred years.

Other solutions should be put on the table. Minimum wage laws like the one suggested in the OP might be worth considering within a given nation like the U.S. (though there are perhaps better alternatives). But they're not going to work in Cambodia anytime soon. Raising the minimum wage to $50,000 annually will cause a lot of unemployment, and we'd need an extensive welfare program to help those whose labor is displaced. That might be an option in the U.S., but it's not feasible in Cambodia or other third-world countries. They simply can't afford extensive welfare programs.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

You raise the minimum wage to 50k a year, you will certainly see hyper-inflation. The cost of living will adjust to the new wage and nothing changes. Stupid premise.

If this were true, greedy corporations would not bother opposing minimum wage laws, and unions would not bother supporting them. If nothing changes, who cares?

Things would change. Inflation probably would not be significant because inflation is largely about the price (and indirectly, therefore, the quantity) of money in circulation, not just the price of labor relative to other inputs.

The likely result would be a transfer of wealth from capital to labor (from shareholders to employees), a reduction in employment, and an increase in the price of certain goods that are particularly labor-intensive to produce, but not an increase in prices across the board.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Look it's easy to pile on here but what Gachi raises is the issue of mechanization and the increasing lack of utility human labor contributes to cheap commodity goods and services. This is an issue many renowned economists have studied for years. Google the BIG.

Having said that yeah, raising minimum salaries to 50k ain't exactly the way to fight this.

Personally I think there should be a combination of increased wages (although not to the tune of 50k), price control of necessities for life and a profit sharing corporate structure to make up the difference.Wages should be at least somewhat commensurate with performance.

The bold sounds like a very bad idea that would result in necessities for life being underproduced, resulting in lots of death.

The price mechanism is one thing that free-market capitalism generally gets right -- i.e., uses to society's great advantage. If you think certain necessities are too expensive right now (which generally means that they're too scarce), consider encouraging their production via subsidies rather than discouraging their production via price controls.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Im not saying all wages should be based on performance. There should be a minimum to maintain a fair and decent quality of life and beyond that everyone shoulf be able to earn more by doing a better job.

In our current system nobody has incentive to be aby more productive than what they need to keep their job.

mr roboto told you to google "Basic Income Guarantee".

I'll save you a bit of googling and point you to this essay arguing that a Basic Income Guarantee might indeed work better than a combination of minimum wage plus means-tested welfare. It fits in with your first paragraph above.

 

[MC Gas Money]

MT

Im going to try to adress all your replies at one time as best I can by jumping to where I eventually believe we would arrive if we continued the discussion to save time.

Overall I believe a large amount of people are rotton to the core and its ruining us and our world.Things are backwards because sociopaths are motivated to manipulate the world around them and there is no other path to the salvation of the species except to eliminate the genetic pollution that proliferates these "people" that are ruining the world.

They have been violently attacking normal people sincebthe dawn of civilization and rising up is a defensive measure that will happen eventually.

The world will not get better until it is tipped in to an apocalypse and we can be cleansed of these defectives.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

That's rather pessimistic.

 

[MC Gas Money]

That's rather pessimistic.

Why?

 

[Ilov80s]

If this entire system, planet wide, doesnt change so that everyones right to happiness is respected by sharing the resources then violent class warfare is inevitable.

I don't know that it's inevitable. Suppose the rich people who own all the technology therefore also own all the decent weapons. The poor wouldn't be able to revolt very well. You'd end up with something like feudalism, which was a pretty stable system for a long time (until technology was such that the common folk had access to decent weapons).

(I'm not suggesting that futuristic feudalism would be a good system. It would suck. I'm just suggesting that it might not involve violent class warfare.)

As long as the wealthy now can hold control over the military, there is no fight to be had. No militia could be assembled that could contend with the fire power of drones, stealth bombers, tanks, etc. The only options the poor would have would be what the guerrilla methods used by Islamic terrorists. It would never be able to actually seize control of the country and the wealth. As for Eurooean feudalism, it didn't end due to improved weapons being made available to the masses. It ended because the Black Death killed half the population which created huge opportunities and newfound value for the survivors, Europe moved towards a money based economy and governments became more centralized.

 

[Zow]

Don't these corporations net billions in profits a year?

The price of goods & services shouldn't be

affected.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Reeled in some prize catches.

 

[Jack White]

Overall I believe a large amount of people are rotton to the core and its ruining us and our world.Things are backwards because sociopaths are motivated to manipulate the world around them and there is no other path to the salvation of the species except to eliminate the genetic pollution that proliferates these "people" that are ruining the world.

They have been violently attacking normal people sincebthe dawn of civilization and rising up is a defensive measure that will happen eventually.

The world will not get better until it is tipped in to an apocalypse and we can be cleansed of these defectives.

Not sure if this was intentional, but do you realize you just described all states throughout history?

 

[MC Gas Money]

Overall I believe a large amount of people are rotton to the core and its ruining us and our world.Things are backwards because sociopaths are motivated to manipulate the world around them and there is no other path to the salvation of the species except to eliminate the genetic pollution that proliferates these "people" that are ruining the world.

They have been violently attacking normal people sincebthe dawn of civilization and rising up is a defensive measure that will happen eventually.

The world will not get better until it is tipped in to an apocalypse and we can be cleansed of these defectives.

Not sure if this was intentional, but do you realize you just described all states throughout history?

Yes. The war has been constant.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Overall I believe a large amount of people are rotton to the core and its ruining us and our world.Things are backwards because sociopaths are motivated to manipulate the world around them and there is no other path to the salvation of the species except to eliminate the genetic pollution that proliferates these "people" that are ruining the world.

They have been violently attacking normal people sincebthe dawn of civilization and rising up is a defensive measure that will happen eventually.

The world will not get better until it is tipped in to an apocalypse and we can be cleansed of these defectives.

Not sure if this was intentional, but do you realize you just described all states throughout history?

Yes. The war has been constant.

This is all rather dark and unnecessary. People are by and large good, mankind's progress has indeed largely been progress since the Dark Ages, we are free, we live in a free country, and we openly debate the nature of our government all the time but that is largely what it is. No reason we can't all be more positive about things.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Overall I believe a large amount of people are rotton to the core and its ruining us and our world.Things are backwards because sociopaths are motivated to manipulate the world around them and there is no other path to the salvation of the species except to eliminate the genetic pollution that proliferates these "people" that are ruining the world.

You're actually insane.

 

[ROCKET]

This would be a death blow for many companies in the construction industry and other industries like it. Legit construction companies

pay their employees a livable wage, pay wc insurance,unemployment insurance,ss, taxes etc. and compete against hordes of companies who use subcontractors who pay illegal immigrants cash under the table thus avoiding the overhead of hiring a legit employee. They also contribute nothing into the coffers of wc, unemployment, state/federal taxes, ss etc.

Now I have to pay my employees 50K at minimum? My actual cost at 50K would be closer to 70K after the overhead I listed above.I'm fine with this as long as the government will put in force tons of labor law enforcement officials who show up at job sites to enforce the laws we have and jail/fine companies who are breaking them. The lack of oversight of labor laws is already putting many legit companies out of business. Wake me up when the enforcement starts.

 

[DocHolliday]

This would be a death blow for many companies in the construction industry and other industries like it. Legit construction companies

pay their employees a livable wage, pay wc insurance,unemployment insurance,ss, taxes etc. and compete against hordes of companies who use subcontractors who pay illegal immigrants cash under the table thus avoiding the overhead of hiring a legit employee. They also contribute nothing into the coffers of wc, unemployment, state/federal taxes, ss etc.

Now I have to pay my employees 50K at minimum? My actual cost at 50K would be closer to 70K after the overhead I listed above.I'm fine with this as long as the government will put in force tons of labor law enforcement officials who show up at job sites to enforce the laws we have and jail/fine companies who are breaking them. The lack of oversight of labor laws is already putting many legit companies out of business. Wake me up when the enforcement starts.

This has been going on for many, many years and does not seem to be improving. I cannot imagine it ever does improve. There are too many powerful people making a lot of money by skirting the labor laws.

 

[Dentist]

Didn't read the thread, but they would probably be able to afford their dental work more, so that would benefit me... but given that the companies that employ these people are going to have their stocks collapse, i stand to probably lose anything i might gain.

 

[humpback]

Opinions mean nothing

These are the facts...

If this entire system, planet wide, doesnt change so that everyones right to happiness is respected by sharing the resources then violent class warfare is inevitable.

The technology and resources exist so that suffering due to poverty can be significantly reduced if not nearly eradicated.

The only thing preventing that is blind greed and selfishness, the driving force behind all of the problems in society be they economical, religious or cultural. We as a species should be way beyond all this petty BS.

Im going to get blasted for these statements and it will usually go something like this....

"Blah blah blah lazy people yakkity yakkity I work harder than anyone yadda yadda yadda entitlement pffft pffft pfft I dont like helping people"

Just to clarify

Are you laughing at me or the last part in quotations?

Not at you, but at more than just the last part. Most of your post is silly.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

They might be less inclined to spit in your food.

 

[Clifford]

50K might be about right for fast-food jobs in the near future. Keeping a bunch of robots operating requires some skill.

I would boycott any business that did that and I hope most people would too

You're going to boycott any business that eliminates manual labor because of automation? Enjoy your cave...

 

[Clifford]

Overall I believe a large amount of people are rotton to the core and its ruining us and our world.Things are backwards because sociopaths are motivated to manipulate the world around them and there is no other path to the salvation of the species except to eliminate the genetic pollution that proliferates these "people" that are ruining the world.

They have been violently attacking normal people sincebthe dawn of civilization and rising up is a defensive measure that will happen eventually.

The world will not get better until it is tipped in to an apocalypse and we can be cleansed of these defectives.

Not sure if this was intentional, but do you realize you just described all states throughout history?

Yes. The war has been constant.

Soooo are you joining ISIS? Cause this is exactly what they are all about.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I can tell you one thing that would change, I'd make my wife get a job.

 

[fdas2]

So MC is going to debate MT?

It'll be Lincoln vs Douglas all over again!

Except this time, Douglas will be replaced by a potato.

 

[CBusAlex]

Warren Buffet's six year old granddaughter is tainted by "genetic pollution" and must be eliminated for the "salvation of our species". But yes, it's other people who are the sociopaths.

 

[fantasycurse42]

So MC is going to debate MT?

It'll be Lincoln vs Douglas all over again!

Except this time, Douglas will be replaced by a potato.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

So MC is going to debate MT?

It'll be Lincoln vs Douglas all over again!

Except this time, Douglas will be replaced by a potato.

I have been retained by the American Association of Potato Farmers, and the Friends of Tubers International. My clients demand you rescind your libelous remarks. They in no manner which to be associated with MC Gas Monkey in anyone's thoughts. They suggest if you care to libel a food that you take on the lima bean as it is without supporters of any kind.

 

[Clifford]

If we have a minimum wage at the very least it should keep pace with inflation. It has not been raised in how long?

If you're going to have it update it every year. Otherwise do away with it altogether.

Easy peasy.

 

[Sand]

MT

Im going to try to adress all your replies at one time as best I can by jumping to where I eventually believe we would arrive if we continued the discussion to save time.

Overall I believe a large amount of people are rotton to the core and its ruining us and our world.Things are backwards because sociopaths are motivated to manipulate the world around them and there is no other path to the salvation of the species except to eliminate the genetic pollution that proliferates these "people" that are ruining the world.

They have been violently attacking normal people sincebthe dawn of civilization and rising up is a defensive measure that will happen eventually.

The world will not get better until it is tipped in to an apocalypse and we can be cleansed of these defectives.

From socialism to genocide in just about a page. I think we have just shattered Godwin's Law.