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When should the word "elite" be used for a QB or any player? (1 Viewer)
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football fan
Footballguy
From the dictionary
rivileged minority (noun)a small group of people within a larger group who have more power, social standing, wealth, or talent than the rest of the groupand/orrichest, best, or most powerful (adjective)more talented, privileged, or highly trained than othersI would say no because many people consider Dan Marino elite, and there may be a few other famous QBs that never had won a Super Bowl, but they should be pretty rare.I guess the question is how do you measure success and being "elite" as a NFL QB?What about the old AFL and NFL QBs that played before Super Bowls ever started?
rivileged minority (noun)a small group of people within a larger group who have more power, social standing, wealth, or talent than the rest of the groupand/orrichest, best, or most powerful (adjective)more talented, privileged, or highly trained than othersI would say no because many people consider Dan Marino elite, and there may be a few other famous QBs that never had won a Super Bowl, but they should be pretty rare.I guess the question is how do you measure success and being "elite" as a NFL QB?What about the old AFL and NFL QBs that played before Super Bowls ever started?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Here's a general QB question: Should the word "elite" only be used for those who have won SBs? No. To say yes would mean we have to say that Dilfer was elite and Marino was not.
Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees are the only current elite quarterbacks... Superbowl appearances & victories (It's a team sport), and consistently playing at a high level... difficult for defenses to game plan against, lead their team to the playoffs nearly every year, and usually lead a superbowl contending team, still playing and have already broken career long records for other players throughout the history of the NFL, Single Season records, MVP's, Superbowl MVP, "Defenses just try to slow them down when they play them""...........................Marino was an exception to the rule... I would say a guy would need 5 or 6 of this to be a "NOTCH" above the rest
Eli Manning, Ben Rapesburger... don't do it consistently enough.. and defenses usually destroy them a few games out of the year... but each of them has played at an elite level at points in their careers, but they aren't the types of quarterbacks that you "just try to slow down"
Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco similar to Eli and Rapesburger but with no superbowl rings which brings them a notch below those two .... haven't done anything that I would consider great yet.. and haven't taken the next step in the playoffs yet, however this could change for them if they do it this year, and than take it to the next level like Aaron Rodgers did after he got his ring (Which btw how the #### is he not the MVP??, or atleast offensive player off the year.. guy is amazing and isn't even in the conversation this year?? was nearly the same year he had last year..).. I don't see that happening for Flacco
A lot of guys have the potential and the skillset.. but the question is can they do it over a long period of time, can they lead their team to a championship?.. can they be a consistent threat to win the superbowl?... can they be like the others and take their team to the playoffs nearly every year??
Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, RGIII, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton... are the young guys that have this potential to be on that level.. but we will have to look back 10 years from now to find out...
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Jayded
Footballguy
Why not just cap the title of elite at "surefire" hall of famers that are still active?Little debate on whether Brady or Peyton will be in Canton, thus elite. Others can be varying degrees of poor to excellent, but I wouldn't call any player elite unless he was going into Canton shortly after retirement.
Why? It's just a non-quantifiable description like good, bad, poor.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
makes too much sense, imo
Phlash
Footballguy
I'd say Drew Brees is first ballot at this point. He has a ring and his numbers are absolutely staggering. 7 years in a row with 4k+ passing yards, and only QB with not only 2 seasons of 5k passing yards, but he actually has 3.Completely insane. He's elite.
football fan
Footballguy
I had thought of using Hall of Fame as the main criteria of defining elite at my earlier post, but after looking at what QBs had become Hall of Famers (there are only about thirty of them) so I am wondering if using entry to the NFL Hall of Fame might be a bit out of date in describing today's possible elite QBs (It's very obvious that how the game is played has drastically changed from twenty years ago, and younger QBs are starting to put up some incredible numbers compared to QBs of ten or twenty years ago.)I do agree that consistency is huge factor to be considered elite, but I am not sure that there is one surefire quantifiable definition of elite.http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.aspxPre-Modern Era: Running Backs and Quarterbacks (24)Cliff Battles (HB) 1932-1937Sammy Baugh (QB) 1937-1952Tony Canadeo (HB) 1941-1944, 1946-1952Earl (Dutch) Clark (QB) 1931-1932, 1934-1938Jimmy Conzelman (QB) # 1920-1929John (Paddy) Driscoll (QB) 1920-1929Bill Dudley (HB) 1942, 1945-1951, 1953Benny Friedman 1927-1934Harold (Red) Grange (HB) 1925-1934Joe Guyon (HB) 1919-1925, 1927Arnie Herber (QB) 1930-1940, 1944-1945Clarke Hinkle (FB) 1932-1941Earl (Curly) Lambeau (HB) # 1919-1929Alphonse (Tuffy) Leemans (HB-FB) 1936-1943Sid Luckman (QB) 1939-1950George McAfee (HB) 1940-1941, 1945-1950John (Blood) McNally (HB) 1925-1938Bronko Nagurski (FB) 1930-1937, 1943Ernie Nevers (FB) 1926-1927, 1929-1931Clarence (Ace) Parker (QB) 1937-141, 1945-1946Fritz Pollard (HB) 1919-1926Ken Strong (HB) 1929-1937, 1939, 1944-1947Jim Thorpe (HB) 1915-1917, 1919-1926, 1928Steve Van Buren (HB) 1944-1951 Modern Era: Quarterbacks (23)Troy Aikman 1989-2000George Blanda (Also PK) 1949-1958, 1960-1975Terry Bradshaw 1970-1983Len Dawson 1957-1975John Elway 1983-1998Dan Fouts 1973-1987Otto Graham 1946-1955Bob Griese 1967-1980Sonny Jurgensen 1957-1974Jim Kelly 1986-1996Bobby Layne 1948-1962Dan Marino 1983-1999Joe Montana 1979-1994Warren Moon 1984-2000Joe Namath 1965-1977Bart Starr 1956-1971Roger Staubach 1969-1979Fran Tarkenton 1961-1978Y.A. Tittle 1948-1964Johnny Unitas 1956-1973Norm Van Brocklin 1949-1960Bob Waterfield 1945-1952Steve Young 1985-1999
no it doesnt mean that
Buffaloes
Footballguy
if you take the guy's quote at face value, it would mean Marino isn't elite. Which makes his question all sorts of
But it does mean that Dilfer would be eligible for the conversation but Marino wouldn't. And that's enough for me to scrap that as a requirement.
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
It's nice to say that sure fire HOFers = elite. Where does that leave Big Ben and Eli, who many folks here are already getting fitted for a bust for Canton?
Or accept the fact that like math, science, language and nature you have "exceptions to the rule". The worst things about both of these guys careers is they've rendered the "elite" debate down to everyone playing the polar opposite Dilfer or Marino trump cards to prove or disprove the "elite QB's win SB" argument.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I hear what you are saying. I just hate this idea that you have to win a Super Bowl to be considered an elite QB. What if Favre doesn't throw that INT at the end of the NFC title game, the Vikings make the FG to win the game, and NO never makes it to, or wins, the Super Bowl? Would Brees then not be elite?
What if the Packers D doesn't hold at the end of the Super Bowl two years ago? Would Rodgers then not be elite?
As usual, issues like this are never black and white. There are always shades of gray.
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But isn't the point of the term to determine which players are currently at a particular level? Jerry Rice was not elite at the end of his career. To me, I just see it as where on his top NFL player rankings, a fan arbitrarily chooses to draw the line. I take it similar to who I consider superstars in the NBA. I'd put the big 4 QBs, ADP, and a few others on my list.
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msommer
Footballguy
It means that the criteria for getting into the HOF needs to be adjusted
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
IMO it's the guys who can single-handedly beat you if you don't make adjustments. The ones you absolutely have to try and stop by adjusting what you're doing on defense. WRs you have to double-cover, TEs who you double or put a corner on, RBs that make you move a safety up, QBs that you either blitz or don't blitz more than normal, etc. Basically the guys the other coach spends his time really worrying about.
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