When's the next constitutional crisis? (1 Viewer)

[Koya]

When will the next constitutional crisis occur, and what will be its cause? It HAS to happen at SOME point... what's your guess or possibility?

 

[General Tso]

Something to do with gun control would be my guess.

 

[timschochet]

What was the last one?

 

[Koya]

What was the last one?

Damn good question. No idea.

You could argue Nixon to a small degree. Or even the hanging chad in a way. But obvious there was not point where all hell broke lose, governmentally speaking.

Certainly the Civil War, and threats in the decades after for states to legitimately secede?

Either way... WE'RE DUE.

 

[jon_mx]

Maybe when we have gotten $17 trillion in debt and our creditors call to collect.

 

[NutterButter]

Maybe when we have gotten $17 trillion in debt and our creditors call to collect.

Maybe 18 will be the magic number.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Some red state will refuse to enforce a federal law after exhausting appeals at the Supreme Court.

 

[Fennis]

Obama being born in Kenya was kinda a big deal

 

[FattyVM]

I think we're in it. Look at the hobby lobby case that's currently at the supreme court. After that? It's either guns, or same sex marriage imho.

 

[Riversco]

What was the last one?

Wikipedia say this:

• The 1800 presidential election: The House of Representatives was convened to determine whether Thomas Jefferson or Aaron Burr, each receiving 73 votes in the electoral college, should become President. The House cast 35 ballots without giving either person a majority. Finally, Alexander Hamilton intervened to urge representatives to vote for Jefferson, leading to Jefferson's election in the 36th ballot. After the event, the Constitution was amended to prevent similar crises from recurring.
• The Nullification Crisis of 1832, in which South Carolina declared that it would not permit collection of a federal tariff.
• The secession of seven Southern states, which the federal government did not recognize, leading to the American Civil War.
• 1876 presidential election: Republicans and Democrats disputed voting results in three states. The Electoral Commission, created byCongress, voted along party lines in favor of Republican candidate Rutherford B. Hayes, who damped Southern fury by withdrawing federal troops from the South.
• The Goldwater v. Carter case involved the President breaking a the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty without congressional approval.

 

[Riversco]

I imagine the next one is most likely going to involve one branch of government assuming power that had traditionally been viewed as belonging to a different branch.

It could have something to do with the increasing practice of Presidents appointing czars without senate approval.

 

[msudaisy26]

How about double taxing income?

 

[Josie Maran]

How about double taxing income?

 

[Eephus]

I imagine the next one is most likely going to involve one branch of government assuming power that had traditionally been viewed as belonging to a different branch.

It could have something to do with the increasing practice of Presidents appointing czars without senate approval.

There have been appointed Presidential Advisors with limited authority for a century. It's pretty explicitly permitted by the Constitution.

I don't see any constitutional Czar crisis happening unless they turn out to really be Russian monarchs.

 

[Steve Tasker]

How about double taxing income?

Yeah....what?

 

[timschochet]

What was the last one?

Wikipedia say this:

• The 1800 presidential election: The House of Representatives was convened to determine whether Thomas Jefferson or Aaron Burr, each receiving 73 votes in the electoral college, should become President. The House cast 35 ballots without giving either person a majority. Finally, Alexander Hamilton intervened to urge representatives to vote for Jefferson, leading to Jefferson's election in the 36th ballot. After the event, the Constitution was amended to prevent similar crises from recurring.
• The Nullification Crisis of 1832, in which South Carolina declared that it would not permit collection of a federal tariff.
• The secession of seven Southern states, which the federal government did not recognize, leading to the American Civil War.
• 1876 presidential election: Republicans and Democrats disputed voting results in three states. The Electoral Commission, created byCongress, voted along party lines in favor of Republican candidate Rutherford B. Hayes, who damped Southern fury by withdrawing federal troops from the South.
• The Goldwater v. Carter case involved the President breaking a the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty without congressional approval.

See, that last one happened during my lifetime, but if it was a "crisis" I haven't got the slightest memory of it.

 

[Dr Oadi]

Some red state will refuse to enforce a federal law after exhausting appeals at the Supreme Court.

Nuclear option was the last constitutional crisis but since the Democrats did it nobody cared.

 

[spreagle]

There will be no more constitutional crises, because they'll either ignore the constitution, or just change the way the constitution is interpreted. No matter how ridiculous the interpretation is, if the authorities say that's the new interpretation, that's the new interpretation, hence no future crises. There are currently lots of things in the constitution that are being ignored, and no one cares.

http://politicker.com/2013/04/bloomberg-says-post-boston-interpretation-of-the-constitution-will-have-to-change/

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I can't tell you as I don't listen to talk radio or watch 24 hour news. So I'll miss the one in a few seconds just like I missed the one from five minutes ago.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think we're in it. Look at the hobby lobby case that's currently at the supreme court. After that? It's either guns, or same sex marriage imho.

All of these are the opposites of constitutional crises. In these three examples, people disagree about what's constitutional and what's not. The courts settle the issue, and we move on.

A constitutional crisis is when something serious happens that the constitution doesn't anticipate (e.g. somebody sets of a nuclear device at a presidential inauguration, killing the president, vice president, president-elect, VP-elect, most of the supreme court, most members of congress, and a large number of current or potential cabinet-level secretaries. This would create a serious "continuance of government" crisis). Or when somebody simply refuses to abide by constitutional process (e.g. Little Rock).

 

[NCCommish]

Maybe when we have gotten $17 trillion in debt and our creditors call to collect.

Something like 86% of that debt is owned by the American people in retirement funds. No one is coming for anything.

 

[NCCommish]

I think we're in it. Look at the hobby lobby case that's currently at the supreme court. After that? It's either guns, or same sex marriage imho.

All of these are the opposites of constitutional crises. In these three examples, people disagree about what's constitutional and what's not. The courts settle the issue, and we move on.

A constitutional crisis is when something serious happens that the constitution doesn't anticipate (e.g. somebody sets of a nuclear device at a presidential inauguration, killing the president, vice president, president-elect, VP-elect, most of the supreme court, most members of congress, and a large number of current or potential cabinet-level secretaries. This would create a serious "continuance of government" crisis). Or when somebody simply refuses to abide by constitutional process (e.g. Little Rock).

True

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Some red state will refuse to enforce a federal law after exhausting appeals at the Supreme Court.

Nuclear option was the last constitutional crisis but since the Democrats did it nobody cared.

Including the Republicans.

 

[mr roboto]

Maybe when we have gotten $17 trillion in debt and our creditors call to collect.

Something like 86% of that debt is owned by the American people in retirement funds. No one is coming for anything.

Sorry, no. You are wrong. 34% owned by other countries. 40% owned by SS, US Govt and the Treasury. http://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/who-holds-our-debt/

But your main point stands - we are not 'owned' by China per se (although they hold 8% of our debt by themselves).

 

[joffer]

I think we're in it. Look at the hobby lobby case that's currently at the supreme court. After that? It's either guns, or same sex marriage imho.

All of these are the opposites of constitutional crises. In these three examples, people disagree about what's constitutional and what's not. The courts settle the issue, and we move on.

A constitutional crisis is when something serious happens that the constitution doesn't anticipate (e.g. somebody sets of a nuclear device at a presidential inauguration, killing the president, vice president, president-elect, VP-elect, most of the supreme court, most members of congress, and a large number of current or potential cabinet-level secretaries. This would create a serious "continuance of government" crisis). Or when somebody simply refuses to abide by constitutional process (e.g. Little Rock).

 

[NCCommish]

Maybe when we have gotten $17 trillion in debt and our creditors call to collect.

Something like 86% of that debt is owned by the American people in retirement funds. No one is coming for anything.

Sorry, no. You are wrong. 34% owned by other countries. 40% owned by SS, US Govt and the Treasury.http://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/who-holds-our-debt/

But your main point stands - we are not 'owned' by China per se (although they hold 8% of our debt by themselves).

So according to that article the percentage is more like 66% domestically held one way or the other. My bad. I am pretty sure I posted a link to the 86% figure in the past but maybe not.

 

[NCCommish]

Breakdown of national debt as of Aug 2013:

Intergovernmental

Which agencies own the most Treasuries? Social Security, by a long shot. Here's the detailed breakdown (as of August 30, 2013):

• Social Security (Social Security Trust Fund and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund) - $2.764 trillion
• Office of Personnel Management (Federal Employees Retirement, Life Insurance, Hospital Insurance Trust Funds, Postal Service Retiree Contributions) - $826.8 billion
• Military Retirement Fund - $419.5 billion.
• Uniformed Services Retiree Health Care Fund - $189 billion.
• Dept. of Health and Human Services (Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund) - $260 billion
• Department of Energy - $54.8 billion.
• Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation - $33 billion
• Department of Labor (Unemployment Trust Fund) - $30 billion
• Department of the Treasury (Exchange Stabilization Fund) - $26 billion
• Other Programs and Funds - $260 billion.

Public

• Foreign - $5.724 trillion
• Federal Reserve - $1.794 trillion
• State and Local Government, including their pension funds - $703.5 billion
• Mutual Funds - $946.4 billion
• Private Pension Funds - $457.7 billion
• Banks - $341.4 billion
• Insurance Companies - $263.3 billion
• U.S. Savings Bonds - $181.7 billion
• Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.497 trillion.

Who holds our debt

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Some red state will refuse to enforce a federal law after exhausting appeals at the Supreme Court.

Nuclear option was the last constitutional crisis but since the Democrats did it nobody cared.

The filibuster rules aren't in the Constitution. Which is something I would think would kind of be a prerequisite for a "Consitutional Crisis."

 

[NCCommish]

Some red state will refuse to enforce a federal law after exhausting appeals at the Supreme Court.

Nuclear option was the last constitutional crisis but since the Democrats did it nobody cared.

The filibuster rules aren't in the Constitution. Which is something I would think would kind of be a prerequisite for a "Consitutional Crisis."

It didn't even exist until a Senate rules change created the possibility of the filibuster. Wasn't used the first time until late 1830's IIRC. It is strictly a creation of the US Senate and it's rules.

 

[Henry Ford]

Definitely the Third Amendment.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Definitely the Third Amendment.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Repeal-the-3rd-Amendment/296156500505973

 

[NCCommish]

Definitely the Third Amendment.

One of the least controversial amendments ever.

 

[NCCommish]

Definitely the Third Amendment.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Repeal-the-3rd-Amendment/296156500505973

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law

People should actually read things before they look stupid.

 

[humpback]

Maybe when we have gotten $17 trillion in debt and our creditors call to collect.

Something like 86% of that debt is owned by the American people in retirement funds. No one is coming for anything.

Sorry, no. You are wrong. 34% owned by other countries. 40% owned by SS, US Govt and the Treasury.http://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/who-holds-our-debt/

But your main point stands - we are not 'owned' by China per se (although they hold 8% of our debt by themselves).

So according to that article the percentage is more like 66% domestically held one way or the other. My bad. I am pretty sure I posted a link to the 86% figure in the past but maybe not.

I know you've said similar things in the past, but I doubt you've given a link because it's not even close to true.

 

[SacramentoBob]

It's 11:30 on the east coast, so I'm sure Obama has done something today.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Definitely the Third Amendment.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Repeal-the-3rd-Amendment/296156500505973

Also, this dude from the Rally for Sanity

http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.com/2010/10/insane-day-of-sanity.html

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Definitely the Third Amendment.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Repeal-the-3rd-Amendment/296156500505973

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law

People should actually read things before they look stupid.

Or maybe understand sarcasm.

 

[FattyVM]

Good to know going forward, thanks Ivan.

 

[Henry Ford]

Definitely the Third Amendment.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Repeal-the-3rd-Amendment/296156500505973

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law

People should actually read things before they look stupid.

Yes. Yes, they should.