Where are we at with Flacco? (1 Viewer)

[Lavachebeadsman]

...but I believe. This is the year they take the training wheels off. The NFL is a quarterbacks league, and Cam Cameron is learning this. In the 3 games so far this year, we have seen Flacco take shots and make some big throws. We have also seen Harbaugh and Camerob LET HIM out the team on his back. Conventional wisdom is that the ravens defense is phenomenal, but look closer. Other than Ladarious Webb and Ngata, there isn't one healthy player that you would absolutely say is the tops of their position. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are famous, but are shadows of go they used to be. If the Ravens have to come from behind like they did against New England, or open games like they did against Cincy, Flacco could easily have his first 4,000 yard season. In a year where Christian Ponder has outscores Aaron Rodgers, it's time to challenge our convential wisdom that Joe Flacco isn't a FF worthy quarterback. Personally, he is at the top of tier 3. Behind Rodgers, brees, Brady, stafford, newton, Eli romo, Ryan, RG3 and possibly Vick, who else would you rather have? Mannings arm is done, rivers has a terrible o-line and even worse weapons. Tell me if I'm crazy.

 

[Thunderlips]

...but I believe. This is the year they take the training wheels off. The NFL is a quarterbacks league, and Cam Cameron is learning this. In the 3 games so far this year, we have seen Flacco take shots and make some big throws. We have also seen Harbaugh and Camerob LET HIM out the team on his back. Conventional wisdom is that the ravens defense is phenomenal, but look closer. Other than Ladarious Webb and Ngata, there isn't one healthy player that you would absolutely say is the tops of their position. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are famous, but are shadows of go they used to be. If the Ravens have to come from behind like they did against New England, or open games like they did against Cincy, Flacco could easily have his first 4,000 yard season. In a year where Christian Ponder has outscores Aaron Rodgers, it's time to challenge our convential wisdom that Joe Flacco isn't a FF worthy quarterback. Personally, he is at the top of tier 3. Behind Rodgers, brees, Brady, stafford, newton, Eli romo, Ryan, RG3 and possibly Vick, who else would you rather have? Mannings arm is done, rivers has a terrible o-line and even worse weapons. Tell me if I'm crazy.

The only players I'd take clear cut over Flacco going forward are Rodgers and Brees. Everyone else would have to prove they are better than Joe.

 

[Warrior]

Personally, he is at the top of tier 3. Behind Rodgers, brees, Brady, stafford, newton, Eli romo, Ryan, RG3 and possibly Vick

No offense, but you're not exactly going out on a limb here. He's shown to be exactly what most thought he was going into the season...he's a pretty good QB who is being relied on more this season.What's the big news story here?

 

[Warrior]

The only players I'd take clear cut over Flacco going forward are Rodgers and Brees. Everyone else would have to prove they are better than Joe.

This, on the other hand, is completely

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

As long as they don't forget about feeding Rice his 25 touches per game (and Scott should also get 5 to 10) Flacco can be very efficient and at the same time make lots of explosive plays down the field. You're not crazy but this offense should never be as unbalanced as the Pats or Pack were last year.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Personally, he is at the top of tier 3. Behind Rodgers, brees, Brady, stafford, newton, Eli romo, Ryan, RG3 and possibly Vick

No offense, but you're not exactly going out on a limb here. He's shown to be exactly what most thought he was going into the season...he's a pretty good QB who is being relied on more this season.What's the big news story here?

In all of my drafts, Flacco was drafted behind all of these guys, Luck, Cutler, Palmer, ect. I think Flacco could be a guy you pick up and you drop your Peyton manning, rivers, cutler, ect.

 

[The Jerk]

I don't think Peyton's done. He was never all about his arm strength. If any QB is capable of adapting to his limitation, I'd say it's Peyton. I would argue to include Roethlisberger in the discussion, as the Steelers cannot run the ball and appear to have a mediocre defense, certainly much weaker than in the past. I'm not convinced the Steelers can win playing this way, but they will be better for fantasy purposes.

I'm pretty high on Flacco. I had him around 13-14 among QBs prior to the season. The question for me is what happens to the the play-calling later in the year. The Ravens have always buttoned things up more as the season progresses and also after rough outings by Flacco in the past. People would probably be singing a slightly different tune if Arrington didn't fall down and miss out on a ridiculously easy interception last night. And don't forget the Flacco's second half in Philly. Joe still seems to throw out a few bad decisions/throws a game.

I think the Ravens are more deeply committed to the pass this season, and I think it's the right move. Flacco clearly has more value going forward in 2012 than he has in past seasons. Just keep in mind that you already listed ten QBs, so at best he's 11th and that's competing with Peyton and Ben. So all this talk really indicates is that he's really still a low-end QB1 in most leagues. But I do like the trajectory he appears to be on if the Ravens can stay the course with their greater passing emphasis on offense.

 

[taz]

Assuming most people drafted him as a QB2, the question is who you'd be benching for Flacco. I reluctantly went with Vick yesterday, but right now I have to think of Flacco as a more likely start going forward.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Assuming most people drafted him as a QB2, the question is who you'd be benching for Flacco. I reluctantly went with Vick yesterday, but right now I have to think of Flacco as a more likely start going forward.

My answer is Rivers. I'm willing to admit my analysis on rivers was wrong. I plan on riding Flacco until he gives me a reason not too.

 

[The Jerk]

In all of my drafts, Flacco was drafted behind all of these guys, Luck, Cutler, Palmer, ect. I think Flacco could be a guy you pick up and you drop your Peyton manning, rivers, cutler, ect.

If that's what you want to do, then do it.I don't know why you're so quickly wanting to go bury Peyton after three games. He hasn't exactly been facing the weakest defenses in the league. The Steelers are struggling on pass defense, although they're hardly the worst in the league. Meanwhile, the Falcons and Texans look like they might both be top 8 defenses. Technically, all three of these defenses ARE top 8 in passing yards allowed per game. The "average" QB playing against these three defenses would tally 596 yards. Peyton has 824. So while I understand he's not burning up the fantasy numbers, I'd say his early play is actually quite encouraging. Did you think he would not need a few weeks to find top form? Even if he had just changed teams but not been injured, I would expect him to be slow in the early going.You don't need Shark Pool "approval" to move Flacco ahead of Peyton in your mind. Certainly Flacco could outperform Peyton for the remainder of 2012, and there are fewer physical question marks. However, I wouldn't rule out the reverse either.

 

[Futz]

I think the point being missed is that Flacco probably always had the ability but the conservative game planning hogtied that ability. The Ravens have obviously had a dominant defense therefore it wasn't necessary to have a risky high flying offense. You could win without it. Rush the ball and play great defense.

Fast forward to 2012 and the defense is just not as good. The Suggs-less pass rush is just not getting the job done. Baltimore realizes this therefore the offense has opened up and Flacco benefits.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

I think the point being missed is that Flacco probably always had the ability but the conservative game planning hogtied that ability. The Ravens have obviously had a dominant defense therefore it wasn't necessary to have a risky high flying offense. You could win without it. Rush the ball and play great defense.Fast forward to 2012 and the defense is just not as good. The Suggs-less pass rush is just not getting the job done. Baltimore realizes this therefore the offense has opened up and Flacco benefits.

This is the point I was trying to make, but it got lost in comparison to the other quarterbacks. I'm not burying Peyton or Big Ben, or anyone really. I'm just suggesting that I think Flacco has taken a major step and has to be considered a starter in a 12 team league.

 

[Gawain]

I've owned and started Flacco since he was a rookie, so I;ve seen my fair share of Ravens games.

The one problem that always struck me with Flacco was deep ball accuracy. It was on display Sunday night where several deeper passes were out of bounds. The tremendous number of flags helped to cover up the fact that he was very inaccurate down the field. Flacco's deep ball doesn't seem to be thrown to a spot, rather Flacco seems to attempt to guide or push the ball to where he wants it to go, thereby decreasing his deep accuracy.

Flacco's deep accuracy

I'm loathe to link to a steelers website while debating a Ravens QB, but there didn't seem to me to be any inherent bias aside from their dislike of the Ravens.

 

[The Jerk]

I think the point being missed is that Flacco probably always had the ability but the conservative game planning hogtied that ability. The Ravens have obviously had a dominant defense therefore it wasn't necessary to have a risky high flying offense. You could win without it. Rush the ball and play great defense.Fast forward to 2012 and the defense is just not as good. The Suggs-less pass rush is just not getting the job done. Baltimore realizes this therefore the offense has opened up and Flacco benefits.

This is the point I was trying to make, but it got lost in comparison to the other quarterbacks. I'm not burying Peyton or Big Ben, or anyone really. I'm just suggesting that I think Flacco has taken a major step and has to be considered a starter in a 12 team league.

And what I was saying is that you have him listed behind 10 QBs, not including Peyton and Ben. As good as Flacco has been, I would not place him clearly over Ben in particular. I realize that the rest of the season is not automatically to follow from the first three games, but Ben has outperformed Flacco by a solid margin in every offensive category but passing yards, where Flacco leads 913-904, and yards per attempt and completion. Ben has more TDs (8-6), a better completion percentage (.683 to .645), fewer interceptions (1-2), and even more rushing yards (12-2), not that it really matters.In the case of Peyton, Flacco has clearly outperformed him, but I would argue that at least part of this difference is due to the Ravens facing the #3, #22 and #24 ranked passing defenses, and to Peyton facing the #4, #5, and #8 ranked defenses. Flacco's defenses faced are allowing 33.3 more yards and 0.67 more TDs per game compared to Peyton's. Not that big of a difference, and partly influenced by the fact Flacco has caused these defenses to look bad statistically. Yet when I ask myself which QB is more likely to improve upon their current statistical pace, I think it's Peyton.So I don't think it's clear that Flacco should be a starter in a 12-team league when you concede 10 are ahead of him and Ben and Peyton are out there. He's close, but it's not too hard to put him at #13 either. Is he heading that way? Yes. But it's early.

 

[plymkr]

Ive always held to the idea that flacco is not a ff worthy QB. then i got out bid on all others & he is what was left. I started him the first two weeks, & then got cute yesterday, outsmarting myself, picking up cassel & starting him vs. the saints. Nice move idiot, u cost yourself the game.

I have plenty of ammo to go get a romo or roth or rivers, but are they really going to be that much better? I think ill ride it out, unless i can get Romo for leshoure. Point is, i keep thinking i need a qb, & my team will be really good, but after yesterday, i don't think i do.

 

[Clifford]

...but I believe. This is the year they take the training wheels off. The NFL is a quarterbacks league, and Cam Cameron is learning this. In the 3 games so far this year, we have seen Flacco take shots and make some big throws. We have also seen Harbaugh and Camerob LET HIM out the team on his back. Conventional wisdom is that the ravens defense is phenomenal, but look closer. Other than Ladarious Webb and Ngata, there isn't one healthy player that you would absolutely say is the tops of their position. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are famous, but are shadows of go they used to be. If the Ravens have to come from behind like they did against New England, or open games like they did against Cincy, Flacco could easily have his first 4,000 yard season. In a year where Christian Ponder has outscores Aaron Rodgers, it's time to challenge our convential wisdom that Joe Flacco isn't a FF worthy quarterback. Personally, he is at the top of tier 3. Behind Rodgers, brees, Brady, stafford, newton, Eli romo, Ryan, RG3 and possibly Vick, who else would you rather have? Mannings arm is done, rivers has a terrible o-line and even worse weapons. Tell me if I'm crazy.

I would not trade him for Romo, Vick, or Newton right now (well, maybe Newton).I would trade him for Luck. It is freaking crazy how good the top 2 rookie QBs are.

Flacco showed me a lot last night. He started off the game with an INT and didn't let it determine his night. He was wild at first but settled down into short passes, checking down to the run, and next thing you know he was lighting up the deep throws. Great self-correction showing a lot of poise, maturity, and short memory. I think he showed the Ravens exactly what they were hoping to see last night.

 

[Clifford]

Assuming most people drafted him as a QB2, the question is who you'd be benching for Flacco. I reluctantly went with Vick yesterday, but right now I have to think of Flacco as a more likely start going forward.

Romo until he gives me a damn good reason to start him again.

 

[Im.A.Wizard]

If Stafford isnt good to go this weekend I will be starting Flacco and wont feel bad about it.

 

[GreedoShotFirst]

If Stafford isnt good to go this weekend I will be starting Flacco and wont feel bad about it.

Yup, me too. Question is, if Stafford plays, do you still think about going Flacco against the Hadenless Browns? I'm at least thinking about it.

 

[Im.A.Wizard]

If Stafford isnt good to go this weekend I will be starting Flacco and wont feel bad about it.

Yup, me too. Question is, if Stafford plays, do you still think about going Flacco against the Hadenless Browns? I'm at least thinking about it.

Ill probably just roll with Flacco regardless this week since he plays Thursday

 

[Koya]

I've owned and started Flacco since he was a rookie, so I;ve seen my fair share of Ravens games.

The one problem that always struck me with Flacco was deep ball accuracy. It was on display Sunday night where several deeper passes were out of bounds. The tremendous number of flags helped to cover up the fact that he was very inaccurate down the field. Flacco's deep ball doesn't seem to be thrown to a spot, rather Flacco seems to attempt to guide or push the ball to where he wants it to go, thereby decreasing his deep accuracy.

Flacco's deep accuracy

I'm loathe to link to a steelers website while debating a Ravens QB, but there didn't seem to me to be any inherent bias aside from their dislike of the Ravens.

Huh? One of Flacco's big strengths is throwing a good deep ball... he has not only arm strength, but nice touch and a very catchable deep throw.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

I think something else that works in Flacco's flavor is the homerun ability of his targets. Manning has that with DT, Stafford has it with Megatron, ect, ect, but I think it is safe to say that having Ray Rice to throw screen passes to and Jacoby Jones to catch passes in the flat is a huge advantage. Flacco might only actually throw the ball 5 yards, but if Ray Rice gets 3 20 yard passing gains in a game, that goes to Flacco's bottom line. The same goes with Jacoby Jones. I think the scheme of that offense, combined with the skill sets of his players really helps him out. I suppose I am probably not making a great argument about why Flacco should be rated higher than Manning or Rivers, I'm merely arguing for the sustainability of his performance at a high level.

 

[Captain Hook]

"Where are we at with Flacco?"

Flunking English for starters

 

[teh_jab]

i too am buying on flacco. just started looking at his schedule. as someone posted above, flacco was being taken behind guys like luck, cutler, palmer. this would imply that those who drafted flacco probably didn't think too highly of him either, probably just looking for a serviceable bye-week filler. meaning, with a little persuasion, those that drafted a qb late and now suffering from it (cutler), may be able to pry him off the team of flacco owners.

i understand only three weeks of football have been played, only three weeks of stats available, but looking at what we have, flacco's schedule from here on out, including the playoffs, are very favorable. take a look:

week 4: CLE pass def rank: 26th

week 5: KC 30th

week 6: DAL 7th

week 7: HOU 5th

week 9: CLE 26th

week 10: OAK 28th

week 11: PIT 22nd

week 12: SD 19th

week 13: PIT 22nd

week 14: WAS 31st

week 15: DEN 27th

week 16: NYG 18th

week 17: CIN 29th

 

[The_Man]

Through four games, Flacco has 1,269 yards, seven touchdowns and three interceptions for a 95.8 passer rating.

After a quarter of the season, on pace for 5,076 yards, 28 touchdowns, 12 interceptions.

Funny thing is, I think his fantasy value might go up from here - yards will come down, but TDs should go up a little.

 

[plymkr]

Where am i at w Flacco?

Effin ecstatic !

 

[cheese]

In the new offense, I think he will be comparable to Eli Manning. He racks up yards and throws into coverage a ton. The key will be if he can put together the good plays at the right times (4th qtr and/or playoffs) like Eli does.

 

[plymkr]

Where am i at w Flacco?

Effin ecstatic !

 

[donkshow]

He's a top 7 QB moving forward IMO.

 

[Silver & Black]

I was lucky enough to get him as my backup to Cam Newton. Thankfully, I pulled the trigger and started him last night over Cam. I couldn't be happier.

Unfortunately, my plan of not having to think about who to start every week and just plug Flacco in on the bye week is out the door. In fact, if things continue this way, I will just be plugging Newton in on Flacco's bye week!

The way the Ravens offense is set up this year, Flacco is going to be top 10 in fantasy for sure. Top 5 is a very real possibility.

 

[GManiac]

Crazy.

 

[DoubleG]

Crazy.

But call me maybe.

 

[Monsieur Meursault]

I drafted Flacco at 11.1 (pick #141), so I am thrilled!

 

[Thunderlips]

...but I believe. This is the year they take the training wheels off. The NFL is a quarterbacks league, and Cam Cameron is learning this. In the 3 games so far this year, we have seen Flacco take shots and make some big throws. We have also seen Harbaugh and Camerob LET HIM out the team on his back. Conventional wisdom is that the ravens defense is phenomenal, but look closer. Other than Ladarious Webb and Ngata, there isn't one healthy player that you would absolutely say is the tops of their position. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are famous, but are shadows of go they used to be. If the Ravens have to come from behind like they did against New England, or open games like they did against Cincy, Flacco could easily have his first 4,000 yard season. In a year where Christian Ponder has outscores Aaron Rodgers, it's time to challenge our convential wisdom that Joe Flacco isn't a FF worthy quarterback. Personally, he is at the top of tier 3. Behind Rodgers, brees, Brady, stafford, newton, Eli romo, Ryan, RG3 and possibly Vick, who else would you rather have? Mannings arm is done, rivers has a terrible o-line and even worse weapons. Tell me if I'm crazy.

The only players I'd take clear cut over Flacco going forward are Rodgers and Brees. Everyone else would have to prove they are better than Joe.

Not too far off on this one.

 

[MAC_32]

...but I believe. This is the year they take the training wheels off. The NFL is a quarterbacks league, and Cam Cameron is learning this. In the 3 games so far this year, we have seen Flacco take shots and make some big throws. We have also seen Harbaugh and Camerob LET HIM out the team on his back. Conventional wisdom is that the ravens defense is phenomenal, but look closer. Other than Ladarious Webb and Ngata, there isn't one healthy player that you would absolutely say is the tops of their position. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are famous, but are shadows of go they used to be. If the Ravens have to come from behind like they did against New England, or open games like they did against Cincy, Flacco could easily have his first 4,000 yard season. In a year where Christian Ponder has outscores Aaron Rodgers, it's time to challenge our convential wisdom that Joe Flacco isn't a FF worthy quarterback. Personally, he is at the top of tier 3. Behind Rodgers, brees, Brady, stafford, newton, Eli romo, Ryan, RG3 and possibly Vick, who else would you rather have? Mannings arm is done, rivers has a terrible o-line and even worse weapons. Tell me if I'm crazy.

The only players I'd take clear cut over Flacco going forward are Rodgers and Brees. Everyone else would have to prove they are better than Joe.

Not too far off on this one.

Define, reactionary.

 

[Thunderlips]

 

[TheFanatic]

I just traded for the guy. I think he has turned the corner and we may now see the Ravens be a pass first team. And considering how much they are going to have to pay him, how could they not?

 

[scrumptrulescent]

I just traded for the guy. I think he has turned the corner and we may now see the Ravens be a pass first team. And considering how much they are going to have to pay him, how could they not?

I think that team just peaked, and Flacco along with it. It's all downhill from here. GL

 

[GroveDiesel]

At the very least, he deserves to be called a franchise QB at this point and be considered a top QB.

 

[Koya]

As a Giants and Ravens fan, I see a lot of similarities between Flacco and Eli. And, in the end, I think neither is Elite, but both are franchise QBs who play at an Elite level when it counts most. FWIW, I might take that over an Elite QB like Peyton, who does not seem to play at that level when it counts most.Someone used the right term - these guys are both franchise QBs, and very, very good ones at that. More importantly, both are leaders and seemingly unflappable, likely contributors to each of their clutch performance to date.But ELITE is just that. Top 2-3 guys in the league, and neither are there yet, and with their regular season inconsistency, not sure they ever will be. But, once again, they don't have to be. These are guys who have three rings between them, both have as many as all but on Elite QB in the league (Brady having 3) and both with a number of years ahead of them.

 

[cstu]

I just traded for the guy. I think he has turned the corner and we may now see the Ravens be a pass first team. And considering how much they are going to have to pay him, how could they not?

I think that team just peaked, and Flacco along with it. It's all downhill from here. GL

Perhaps in terms of winning another SB, but Flacco had his best year with the worst defense he's had. He's not going to be a top 5 QB but I can see him sneaking up into the top 10.

 

[TheFanatic]

I just traded for the guy. I think he has turned the corner and we may now see the Ravens be a pass first team. And considering how much they are going to have to pay him, how could they not?

I think that team just peaked, and Flacco along with it. It's all downhill from here. GL

Perhaps in terms of winning another SB, but Flacco had his best year with the worst defense he's had. He's not going to be a top 5 QB but I can see him sneaking up into the top 10.

Particularly since I see that D fading. Lewis is gone, Reed is probably gone if he doesn't resign for peanuts. They are getting old fast. The guy showed in the playoffs that he can sling it. If he has a bad D, and considering they will have to pay a big chunk of their cap to him which leaves less for the D, then he could really jump into the top 10, not just hover around 9-10-11.

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

I can easily see a scenario where the Ravens offense under Caldwell becomes much more "Flaccocentric" and he puts together a string of 4000/30 seasons and becomes a legit QB1 option that's available in the mid rounds in most redraft leagues.

 

[Dentist]

I doubt the ravens do better than 9-7 next year and expect Flacco to get paid and have worse numbers.And i like the ravens... i have since they captured my interest in a big way during those sick defensive runs in 2000

 

[TheFanatic]

I doubt the ravens do better than 9-7 next year and expect Flacco to get paid and have worse numbers.

Why do you say that?His numbers are INCREDIBLY consistent in a run first offense centered around a strong D. After his rookie year he threw for:3613362236103817His interceptions since his rookie season12101210His average yards per pass:7.27.46.77.2His only stat he seems to be dropping in is completion percentage:63.162.657.659.7But that seems to be correlated with the incease in attempts:499489542531I would be willing to bet that his attempts goes over 550 next season if not above 570. He put on a QB clinic in the playoffs and the team is undoubtedly going to do more no huddle next year which means even more attempts.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I doubt the ravens do better than 9-7 next year and expect Flacco to get paid and have worse numbers.And i like the ravens... i have since they captured my interest in a big way during those sick defensive runs in 2000

I can see the 9-7 record - Balt has a few key FAs likely leaving, but I think Flacco puts up better numbers next year, with a worse defense behind him, Balt will be in more high scoring games.

 

[The_Man]

I doubt the ravens do better than 9-7 next year and expect Flacco to get paid and have worse numbers.And i like the ravens... i have since they captured my interest in a big way during those sick defensive runs in 2000

I can see the 9-7 record - Balt has a few key FAs likely leaving, but I think Flacco puts up better numbers next year, with a worse defense behind him, Balt will be in more high scoring games.

They'll go 5-1 or 4-2 in the division, splitting with Pittsburgh, maybe splitting with Cincy as well.Other home games are Pats, Jets, Packers, Vikings, Texans. I'll say 3-2, though that's a touch pessimistic considering how tough they are at home.Other road gamesBuffalo - WMiami - WChicago, Detroit, Denver - even if they go 1-2 here, that's a 10-6 record.My guess is the Patriots for the Thursday Night season-opener, maybe the Packers, but I bet Fox won't want to give up 1 of its 2 games with the Super Bowl champs and will fight NBC on that one.Also, Ravens at Detroit on Thanksgiving?

 

[cstu]

Crazy to think that if Suggs didn't go offsides on Brady's INT or if Cundiff makes the FG last year that Flacco may have had 2 SB rings now.

 

[TheFanatic]

Crazy to think that if Suggs didn't go offsides on Brady's INT or if Cundiff makes the FG last year that Flacco may have had 2 SB rings now.

Nah, Flacco sucks. And the Ravens will be bad next year. I won't bother elaborating as to why on either count, but there's no way he could have two SB rings...

 

[zilladog]

The more I read this thread, the more like Eli Manning I think Flacco is. If he hits the absolute top of his ceiling, he'll be a middle of the road qb1....much like Eli. Big if though.