Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio? (1 Viewer)

[NCCommish]

Now we get to the heart of the matter, which is why are there terrorists in the first place?

My opinion is that, in the case of Islam, terrorists exist because they cannot achieve their goals through conventional means. In order to end terrorism therefore, we have to either (a) allow terrorists to have their goals or (b) destroy the terrorists.

What are the goals of the terrorists? The two main ones, stated time and time again, are to achieve a new world order in which fundamentalism Islam is the supreme religion, and in the process eradicate Israel and weaken the west. Since I find these to be unacceptable goals, I believe our only option is to destroy the terrorists. And again, I don't see how we can accomplish this without killing some of them, or a whole lot of them. 

Again you are confusing a few with the many. Most martyrs are paid to be. Killing themselves is the one way they see to improve the lot of their family. They get huge sums of money, for them, bigger apartments, etc. Most terrorist ground troops are paid. There is no other way to make money and eat everyday. Take those people away and you isolate the few.

 

[NCCommish]

It's SAVAK. They were awful. al-Qaeda and ISIS are far worse. 

Oops. I bet they aren't to the people who's family were destroyed by the SAVAK. A ripe field for recruitment I bet.

 

[NCCommish]

Got to go for a bit feel free to discuss amongst yourselves. And let it be known tim is very much welcome here. Even if he is wrong.

 

[NCCommish]

A little tip from me to anyone that's outraged by the killings.  If you are sick of politics, if this kind of thing disgusts you, you're not alone.

My advice is to realize that this has happened all throughout recorded history, and that politics/governments aren't going to fix it.

Once you realize that, you can look for other solutions.  I've found peace with it myself.  Some find their peace through religion, some through science, some through just blocking it out and enjoying their life.  But once you realize that something is horribly wrong with the political world, it's easier to go look for other solutions.

Can't walk away. I love this country and it needs some help. It only changes when we change our politics.

 

[Sabertooth]

Hiroshima has always been debated as the bomb that actually ended up saving lives.  Most estimates were than conventional warfare would have cost at least 5 times more human lives than ending the war with the bomb.  Of course I would not want to be the one who ordered it.

Just watched Inferno.  Same concept.  Decent movie.  

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree. 

But we are not the instigators of terrorism. 

You sure about that? 

 

[Sinn Fein]

Joltin' Joe has left and gone away

 

[timschochet]

You sure about that? 

I'd like to be. Don't Zinn me, OK? 

 

[NCCommish]

I'd like to be. Don't Zinn me, OK? 

If you believe that actions have consequences it's pretty easy to draw a line from what we did in the Middle East starting after WW2 and the terrorists of today,

 

[rockaction]

In kindergartens in Palestine, they show pictures of blown up and dead Jews while lionizing suicide bombers. 

The issue is unclear by Western standards (drones and intervention) -- not by theirs. Sometimes, one must be nasty in order to survive. 

I hate our role as world police. Eisenhower hated it. Sometimes we must do what is right. 

 

[Politician Spock]

NC, let's examine this for a moment. You and I are in the Situation Room. We're told that a major terrorist has been located by our intelligence agents, and that he's hiding in a house in Yemen. We can send in a drone and blow up the house, but the chances are that if we do that we will kill not only the terrorist, but 10-20 innocent people, including young children. If we kill the terrorist we will significantly weaken his organization; besides, he is an evil man who has murdered many westerners and Americans and he deserves to die.

Are there any circumstances in your mind in which sending in a drone would be acceptable? 

Every time we kill innocents to kill a terrorist, we make half a dozen more terrorists. When a country kills your innocent loved one, you don't have the point of view that "well, I guess is was necessary". You have the point of view of "#### THEM!!!!"

 

[Politician Spock]

I agree. 

But we are not the instigators of terrorism. 

Huh?

The US may not even exist as a free country if not for our acts of terrorism.

The "Sons of Liberty" may be patriots to us, but to England they were terrorists. 

 

[NCCommish]

In kindergartens in Palestine, they show pictures of blown up and dead Jews while lionizing suicide bombers. 

The issue is unclear by Western standards (drones and intervention) -- not by theirs. Sometimes, one must be nasty in order to survive. 

I hate our role as world police. Eisenhower hated it. Sometimes we must do what is right. 

The problem is we aren't doing right. We are simply feeding the radical rhetoric with an unchecked abuse of human rights. They don't need to make #### up we give them plenty of real fodder.