Which Off Field Issues Bothered You More (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

I heard a heated discussion this morning on the radio and was wondering where people felt on this one. Consider everything that has happened to each guy and vote which one has bothered you more. Include whatever you want to come to a conclusion: denials, repeat offenses, charges, convictions, the post-script, owning up, contrition, apologies, the people vs. humans factor, changes in their lifestyle, etc. stemming from that player's actions.

I am specifically looking to concentrate this on the player's, their actions, and the way they changed after the fact. I am not looking to discuss the way the league acted, what the punishments should have been, the media's coverage, the outcry of the masses and other people, etc. Stick to the events and the players, not the hyped up fallout by others.

 

[cr8f]

Vick's is old, but whenever anyone dies from what you do (animal or human) it does bother me a lot.

Rape though does bother me a lot, but I'd have to look at each case and see how the women fared before deciding. Sometimes rape victims would rather die but don't know the details of Bens case.

 

[onlyseventeenpoints?]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

 

[CrossEyed]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

 

[The Westin]

I voted Vick.

At the time, I was pretty disgusted. I think it takes a pretty cold person to kill a dog the ways that he did. But I'm routing for the guy big time right now because he seems like he's turned a corner. Other reports have verified that so I'm pulling for him to keep his head on straight and keep doing well for himself.

As far as Ben, who knows what happened for sure? Women have falsely accused rich/famous guys of sexual assault before but also this has happened a few times to Ben...so I don't know. Everyone pretty much agrees that he's a bad guy, but I'm just not completely convinced he's a rapist.

 

[David Yudkin]

Remember that people can include a spectrum of information across a period of time. It does not have to involve just a single incident. The discussion this morning had a lot to do with Roethlisberger having had multiple incidents and allegations involving similar behavior patterns over the years. The counter to that was he was not charged, tried, or convicted.

While I was listening, one person brought up the race card and suggested that if Roethlisberger had been involved in the dog fighting it would have been much less of a deal and if Vick had a history of preying on young women he would have had a lot more thrown at him and charges filed. But that might be better served in another thread/poll . . .

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Guess it depends on what you call Rape... Taking advantage of a girl who is so drunk she barely remembers what happened is pretty bad.. If she would have been sober I'd say she knew what she was getting into when she went into the bathroom.. But she wasn't.. Also who knows what happened in the bathroom, Ben leaves this girl lying on the bath floor after getting her drunk... That's almost as bad as anything else he could have or did do... That's pretty f-ed up..

As far as Vick's situation goes, I don't think he's a great guy, but I believe his situation is easier to forgive... In public perception though, Vick is the bigger villain because his problems received more attention, and Ben got of... To bad there wasn't 1 victim Vick could just settle out of court with and eliminate the states witness..

 

[Concept Coop]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

Ben has had 4 allegations of sexual misbehavior. But you are right, he has not been proven guilty.The question should be rephrased. Are we assuming guilt or not?OF COURSE, if Ben did it, raping a human is worse than anything you do to an animal, in my mind.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Remember that people can include a spectrum of information across a period of time. It does not have to involve just a single incident. The discussion this morning had a lot to do with Roethlisberger having had multiple incidents and allegations involving similar behavior patterns over the years. The counter to that was he was not charged, tried, or convicted.While I was listening, one person brought up the race card and suggested that if Roethlisberger had been involved in the dog fighting it would have been much less of a deal and if Vick had a history of preying on young women he would have had a lot more thrown at him and charges filed. But that might be better served in another thread/poll . . .

Agreed, and if Ben would have been Black, he would have been crucified, especially if it was still an under-aged, white, college girl...

 

[Concept Coop]

If she would have been sober I'd say she knew what she was getting into when she went into the bathroom..

I don't care if she said yes, goes in to the bathroom willingly, knowing what is about to happen, all while wearing 6 inch heels and a mini skirt. The second she says "no", it is rape. It doens't matter what she thought or even planned on happing up to that point.

 

[The Westin]

Remember that people can include a spectrum of information across a period of time. It does not have to involve just a single incident. The discussion this morning had a lot to do with Roethlisberger having had multiple incidents and allegations involving similar behavior patterns over the years. The counter to that was he was not charged, tried, or convicted.While I was listening, one person brought up the race card and suggested that if Roethlisberger had been involved in the dog fighting it would have been much less of a deal and if Vick had a history of preying on young women he would have had a lot more thrown at him and charges filed. But that might be better served in another thread/poll . . .

Agreed, and if Ben would have been Black, he would have been crucified, especially if it was still an under-aged, white, college girl...

I agree with this...but let's not turn this into a race thread.

 

[CrossEyed]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

Ben has had 4 allegations of sexual misbehavior. But you are right, he has not been proven guilty.The question should be rephrased. Are we assuming guilt or not?OF COURSE, if Ben did it, raping a human is worse than anything you do to an animal, in my mind.

I would agree with you.

 

[Da Guru]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

Ben has had 4 allegations of sexual misbehavior. But you are right, he has not been proven guilty.The question should be rephrased. Are we assuming guilt or not?OF COURSE, if Ben did it, raping a human is worse than anything you do to an animal, in my mind.

Ben was never convicted of anything. Vick was. Both are sub-standard as human beings. With Ben I think he was the over zelous drunk,rich, famous pro-athlete who thought he could impose his will on any female he met. If you have ever been in a bar that has both females and pro athletes and observed it is easy to see how this happens.Vikc killed and tortured animals, plus he spread STDs by knowingly having unprotected sex while carrying a disease. A decent human being would not even think of doing that.I voted both.

 

[imagroid]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

Well that settles it. I for one always remember every detail during a traumatic event.

 

[imagroid]

oh and people > dogs

 

[Carolina Hustler]

If she would have been sober I'd say she knew what she was getting into when she went into the bathroom..

I don't care if she said yes, goes in to the bathroom willingly, knowing what is about to happen, all while wearing 6 inch heels and a mini skirt. The second she says "no", it is rape. It doens't matter what she thought or even planned on happing up to that point.

Problem being we don't know if she said no...What we do know though is she was under age, Ben got her drunk, took her to the bathroom, and left her unconscious on the bath floor... Pretty charming huh? Pretty strong indicator of Ben's character.. Which makes it more likely for me that it doesn't matter what she said, once Ben had her in the bathroom, he was going to have his way... Just my opinion obviously.. My opinion of Ben as a person is well documented here though, it's looked upon as bias by the Steeler fans and Ben apologists...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

Ben has had 4 allegations of sexual misbehavior. But you are right, he has not been proven guilty.The question should be rephrased. Are we assuming guilt or not?

OF COURSE, if Ben did it, raping a human is worse than anything you do to an animal, in my mind.

Ben was never convicted of anything. Vick was. Both are sub-standard as human beings.

With Ben I think he was the over zelous drunk,rich, famous pro-athlete who thought he could impose his will on any female he met. If you have ever been in a bar that has both females and pro athletes and observed it is easy to see how this happens.

Vikc killed and tortured animals, plus he spread STDs by knowingly having unprotected sex while carrying a disease. A decent human being would not even think of doing that.

I voted both.

Hadn't heard this, can someone recap that story for me..

 

[David Yudkin]

Hadn't heard this, can someone recap that story for me..

I believe this involves the infamous Ron Mexico personna, but I could be wrong.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

I find it hard to believe that anyone that has a daughter would vote that Vick bothered them more.

 

[Adebisi]

You know what troubles me just as much as either of them?

The fact that this poll is even close right now.

 

[The Westin]

You know what troubles me just as much as either of them? The fact that this poll is even close right now.

It comes down to convictions, like concept coop said.If Ben were convicted I doubt Vick would get one vote in this poll.

 

[Ballstein]

I vote Vick for the double whammy

1-He killed, and made it his own sick private institution over time. This guy actually believed he did nothing wrong.

2-afterward, he lied about it to everyone, including hiss team ownwer and the NFLcommish.

For Ben, after the booze cleared...he said I ####ed up.

 

[Adebisi]

You know what troubles me just as much as either of them?

The fact that this poll is even close right now.

It comes down to convictions, like concept coop said.If Ben were convicted or if the Steelers had failed to qualify for the playoffs I doubt Vick would get one vote in this poll.

Fixed.Sadly.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

For Ben, after the booze cleared...he said I ####ed up.

All 4 times? or just the fourth time.... And by the way, Ben never admitted to what happened..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I vote Vick for the double whammy

1-He killed, and made it his own sick private institution over time. This guy actually believed he did nothing wrong.

2-afterward, he lied about it to everyone, including hiss team ownwer and the NFLcommish.

For Ben, after the booze cleared...he said I ####ed up.

How can you say that about Vick? Couldn't I say the same about Ben? (Ben and his agent playing public image damage control) Vick apologized as well.. Publicly, and still makes restitution to this day...

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Ben has had 4 allegations of sexual misbehavior.

The two notable ones are nevada and georgia... what were the other two?

 

[onlyseventeenpoints?]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

GO STEELERS!

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Rapelisburger. easy. not even close.

 

[Gachi]

The rapist. I could care less about dogs..

 

[Adebisi]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

To state that he didn't rape her is equally as irresponsible.Is it possible that she couldn't remember because she was plied on booze? Or maybe because she had somehow bashed her head? Some combination of the two?

 

[vandyt]

Big Ben = alleged date rapist

Vick = sadistic killer, interstate gambling ring operator

I might feel differently if there was proof of Ben's transgressions, or they were alleged to be more violent, but they are what they are.

I'm not broken up over the loss of lives of the pit bulls that Vick killed, but the methodology and the cruelty involved suggest a lack of humanity that doesn't deserve to walk this earth.

 

[Bayhawks]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

To state that he didn't rape her is equally as irresponsible.

Explain please?First, I don't read where the other poster states Roethlisberger didn't rape the women.

But, I fail to see the logic in assuming that Roethlisberger did rape her.

There is evidence to suggest that he did force himself on her, but there is also evidence to suggest that he did not:

1) She FOLLOWED him from 1 bar to another.

2) She was wearing a sticker that said "DTF" on it.

3) She originally said she wasn't raped, and then changed her story at the urging of her friends

4) The police withdrew a request for a DNA sample from Roethlisberger, despite finding fluid, suggesting that either another man had been with the young lady recently enough to contaminate the evidence OR the fluid wouldn't match Roethlisberger at all

Now, as another poster said, none of this matters, if the young lady AT ANY TIME, said no. We don't know that she did that, though, so how is it irresponsible to assume that he didn't rape her?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Michael Vick was living a lifestyle of thugery where they killed, tortured, and fought dogs on a daily basis and thought it was perfectly okay....cool actually.....it wasn't being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or having a few drinks and getting behind the wheel...it was who he was and who he would still be had he not got caught......only reason he has changed his ways is because the life he was living on a daily basis ended up costing him millions of dollars.......

we don't really know all the stuff that happened with Ben....all we do know is that he was never charged with anything....anything beyond that is pure speculation becuase we have only heard one side of the story....Ben is probably being advised not to say anything....if he did, who knows what his side of the story would be......

Vick and its not even close.....

 

[imagroid]

Big Ben = alleged date rapistVick = sadistic killer, interstate gambling ring operatorI might feel differently if there was proof of Ben's transgressions, or they were alleged to be more violent, but they are what they are.I'm not broken up over the loss of lives of the pit bulls that Vick killed, but the methodology and the cruelty involved suggest a lack of humanity that doesn't deserve to walk this earth.

This post makes me weep for society. Sure both guys are far from model citizens, but to tip-toe around with the term "alleged" and them slam vick with the "sadistic killer" label is hilarious to me. Whatever u do don't clarify it was dogs!!!! Do people really care about his gambling charges? On this site? I have a feeling this poll is close because this forum is dominated by guys who can't relate. Acquaint yourself with even one woman that has been sexually abused and u will change your tune.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Do people really care about his gambling charges? On this site?

Only in the sense that he was heading up an organized crime outfit.

 

[imagroid]

Do people really care about his gambling charges? On this site?

Only in the sense that he was heading up an organized crime outfit.

And? This isn't the mob. People weren't being extorted or murdered. Organized crime by definition? Yes. The kind of crime we think about when we use the term organized crime? I don't think so. So, again anybody really care that he ran a gambling ring?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Do people really care about his gambling charges? On this site?

Only in the sense that he was heading up an organized crime outfit.

And? This isn't the mob. People weren't being extorted or murdered. Organized crime by definition? Yes. The kind of crime we think about when we use the term organized crime? I don't think so. So, again anybody really care that he ran a gambling ring?

So are we extrapolating more then just the facts of the case in this thread or not?No? Good.

A: Vick.

 

[Sabertooth]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

You are a very interesting Bible thumper.

 

[imagroid]

Do people really care about his gambling charges? On this site?

Only in the sense that he was heading up an organized crime outfit.

And? This isn't the mob. People weren't being extorted or murdered. Organized crime by definition? Yes. The kind of crime we think about when we use the term organized crime? I don't think so. So, again anybody really care that he ran a gambling ring?

So are we extrapolating more then just the facts of the case in this thread or not?

No? Someone's listed his gambling ring as one of the things that bothered him. I'm honestly finding it hard to believe anybody on this site could be bothered with the gambling act.

 

[DoubleG]

Vick's is old, but whenever anyone dies from what you do (animal or human) it does bother me a lot.

Rape though does bother me a lot, but I'd have to look at each case and see how the women fared before deciding. Sometimes rape victims would rather die but don't know the details of Bens case.

In most circles, "anyone" refers to a person. To speak of an animal most would use "anything"...and therin lies the crux of the argument...and why Ben is ahead of Vick in this poll. Simply put, most people think crimes against humans are worse than crimes against animals. I would tend to agree.

 

[Adebisi]

Wow. Must be some steeler homers voting rt now. Anything vick did doesn't touch raping that chick in ga.

So you were in that bathroom in Milledgeville? Because the young woman involved couldn't even remember what position she was in when Ben allegedly raped her. Did he act like a pig? I think most of us can agree on that. But to state that he raped her is irresponsible.

To state that he didn't rape her is equally as irresponsible.

Explain please?First, I don't read where the other poster states Roethlisberger didn't rape the women.

But, I fail to see the logic in assuming that Roethlisberger did rape her.

There is evidence to suggest that he did force himself on her, but there is also evidence to suggest that he did not:

1) She FOLLOWED him from 1 bar to another.

2) She was wearing a sticker that said "DTF" on it.

3) She originally said she wasn't raped, and then changed her story at the urging of her friends

4) The police withdrew a request for a DNA sample from Roethlisberger, despite finding fluid, suggesting that either another man had been with the young lady recently enough to contaminate the evidence OR the fluid wouldn't match Roethlisberger at all

Now, as another poster said, none of this matters, if the young lady AT ANY TIME, said no. We don't know that she did that, though, so how is it irresponsible to assume that he didn't rape her?

Because there is very strong reason to believe that he did rape her. It's just as irresponsible to call the accuser a liar as it is to call Roethlisberger a rapist.And your very thinly veiled "she was asking for it" argument is both weak and disturbing.

 

[Adebisi]

Do people really care about his gambling charges? On this site?

Only in the sense that he was heading up an organized crime outfit.

And? This isn't the mob. People weren't being extorted or murdered. Organized crime by definition? Yes. The kind of crime we think about when we use the term organized crime? I don't think so. So, again anybody really care that he ran a gambling ring?

So are we extrapolating more then just the facts of the case in this thread or not?

No? Someone's listed his gambling ring as one of the things that bothered him. I'm honestly finding it hard to believe anybody on this site could be bothered with the gambling act.

That's even worse than the guy who sent money to a stranger he met over the Internet getting up on his high horse to warn others of the dangers of dealing with gambling addicts.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Do people really care about his gambling charges? On this site?

Only in the sense that he was heading up an organized crime outfit.

And? This isn't the mob. People weren't being extorted or murdered. Organized crime by definition? Yes. The kind of crime we think about when we use the term organized crime? I don't think so. So, again anybody really care that he ran a gambling ring?

So are we extrapolating more then just the facts of the case in this thread or not?

No? Someone's listed his gambling ring as one of the things that bothered him. I'm honestly finding it hard to believe anybody on this site could be bothered with the gambling act.

I scrolled up and what I saw was... "gambling ring operator". Considering that its part of a organized crime and a bloodsport...Note exactly like laying 20 bones on Spurs to cover and just a "gambling act".

 

[BigSteelThrill]

16 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)

13 Members: BigSteelThrill, Flying Spaghetti Monster, Man In The Box, Go deep, commisholio, jdswan922, buster c, Kowskull, Sabertooth, Ariakis, CB31, Spin, Ksquared

Here comes something fun....

 

[Adebisi]

I scrolled up and what I saw was... "gambling ring operator". Considering that its part of a organized crime and a bloodsport...

Note exactly like laying 20 bones on Spurs to cover and just a "gambling act".

Organized crime (in this case) = bloodsport = dog fighting ring. They are all the same thing in this particular case. It's not like Vick's "organized crime" involved dealing drugs and human trafficking (or anything else aside from the dogs). Ditto for the bloodsport comment. So you're not really making any point there when you say that "it's part of an organized crime and a bloodsport."

 

[Go deep]

Somtimes after having too much to drink Ben has sex with drunk women.

While completely sober Vick tortured and murdered dozens of dogs over the course of years.

Ben made some poor decisions while drunk, Vick is an evil human who is only sorry he got caught.

 

[buster c]

so some drunken little starfu88ing slut serves it up free of charge to Big Ben and later has buyers remorse, tries to undo it only to fail...and you guys are ready to compare her to your oh-so wholesome daughters?

c'mon man. get real.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I scrolled up and what I saw was... "gambling ring operator". Considering that its part of a organized crime and a bloodsport...

Note exactly like laying 20 bones on Spurs to cover and just a "gambling act".

Organized crime (in this case) = bloodsport = dog fighting ring. They are all the same thing in this particular case. It's not like Vick's "organized crime" involved dealing drugs and human trafficking (or anything else aside from the dogs). Ditto for the bloodsport comment. So you're not really making any point there when you say that "it's part of an organized crime and a bloodsport."

I dont care the he gambled. Good for him.But bankrolling and enabling things that were (admitted by him) oustide of his control leaves a lot to the unknown.

In early 2004, two men were arrested in Virginia for distributing marijuana. The truck they were driving was registered to Vick.

 

[imagroid]

I scrolled up and what I saw was... "gambling ring operator". Considering that its part of a organized crime and a bloodsport...

Note exactly like laying 20 bones on Spurs to cover and just a "gambling act".

Organized crime (in this case) = bloodsport = dog fighting ring. They are all the same thing in this particular case. It's not like Vick's "organized crime" involved dealing drugs and human trafficking (or anything else aside from the dogs). Ditto for the bloodsport comment. So you're not really making any point there when you say that "it's part of an organized crime and a bloodsport."

Yeah I said the same thing to him and he didn't grasp that. A huge difference imo.

 

[Adebisi]

Somtimes after having too much to drink Ben has sex with drunk women.

While completely sober Vick tortured and murdered dozens of dogs over the course of years.

Ben made some poor decisions while drunk, Vick is an evil human who is only sorry he got caught.

Last time you got drunk and had sex with a girl who was also drunk, did she wake up the next day with bruises? Did your buddies prevent her friends from checking up on her? Just curious, since this seems to be nothing more than simple casual drunken sex in your eyes.