Jrodicus
Footballguy
Some other leaguemates have posted about an issue we had with an owner, Josh Meyer, and how he was able to get a refund from LeagueSafe. Below is the rest of the story and my dialgoue with their customer service group.
Oct 29 07:45 (CDT)
Hello,
My name is Jared ***, and I am the commissioner of a league that uses your site. Our leaguesafe homepage is https://www.leaguesafe.com/League/1382110
This is the first year of our fantasy league, and most of the owners do not know each other. To help keep the buy-in’s “safe,” one of our leaguemates, Josh Meyer, suggested we use your service. Josh was not the commissioner of the league, but he was put in charge of setting up the leaguesafe account because the commissioner was not familiar with your site.
This is a dynasty league, so we have quite a bit of activity during the NFL offseason. By 2/15/13, all 12 of our members had paid their $306 buy-in.
In July, our league commissioner (name removed) stepped down, and I took over his responsibilities. I am familiar with your site, and I use your services for other leagues that I am commissioner of. On7/29, Josh Meyer gave “commissioner” powers on your site to Chuck Cantrell. Chuck then gave me commissioner powers on the same day. I then removed Leaguesafe commissioner powers from Chuch and Josh (not sure if I did this on July 29th or in the next couple days).
Having said that:
Josh Meyer was still in our league for the first 7 weeks of the season has been inactive in our league since 10/20/13. He removed his contact information from the fantasy league homepage, and has made it obvious that he has dropped out. I’m still trying to contact him, but he is not responding.
Looking at our page on your website, Josh received a full refund of his $306 buy-in on 7/30, and he “left” our Leaguesafe site on 9/3. As commissioner, I did not receive any notification of either event.
MY QUESTIONS:
1. Why did Josh Meyer received a full refund on 7/30? We specifically chose to use your service just so that an issue like this would not occur. He was still active in our league, and there was no reason for him to receive a refund.
2. Why was I, as commissioner on Leaguesafe, not notified of either transaction – both Josh’s refund on 7/30 and him “leaving” the Leaguesafe league on 9/30?
3. What are you going to do to rectify this? This payment should not have been made to him, plain and simple. Josh’s team would not have made the playoff’s (which is probably why he decided to drop out after 7 weeks), so now we are short $306 for our payouts.
Please respond as soon as possible. Thank you,
-Jared ***
Their reply.
Oct 29 12:32 (CDT)
Hey Jared,
We refunded his payment because he made the refund request well before the 2013 NFL season began.
We do not notify the league commissioner via email when a league member receives a refund, or when a league member leaves the league.
LeagueSafe is never responsible for resolving disputes between a league commissioner and league members, or between league members. LeagueSafe always recommends that intra-league disputes be resolved internally. We cannot possibly know what is happening within a league hosted by ESPN, NFL.com, etc.
All these details are, however, displayed on the league events page.
You can get in touch with Josh and have him pay back into the league, but we cannot force him to do so.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thank you for using LeagueSafe.
Beth W.
Customer Service Manager
So they refunded his money because he asked them to and it was "well before" the start of the season. My reply:
Oct 29 13:13 (CDT)
Beth,
Your hyperlinks do not work, so I will reply here.
I looked back through my emails, and to confirm, I was made Commissioner on 7/29/13. I then removed Commissioner status from both *name removed* and Josh Meyers on that day – 7/29/13 – so that I was the only one with Commissioner rights.
Per LeagueSafe Terms and Conditions: https://www.leaguesafe.com/terms
“Refunds
LeagueSafe honors refunds any time prior to the League Payment Deadline. Members who wish to request a refund must notify LeagueSafe prior to the League Payment Deadline. After the League Payment Deadline, refunds are not allowed unless approved by the league Commissioner. This measure safeguards the league against Members who might wish to pull their funds from the league when it becomes apparent that their team isn’t performing well.
Refunds are not allowed after the Season Payment Deadline, unless authorized by the Commissioner.
According to our league Payment & Refund Deadline – 3/1/13 was the deadline for entry fee payments. According to the League Events, Josh Meyer received his refund of $306 on 7/30/13 – the day after his Commissioner status had been revoked. It doesn’t matter when the NFL season began – our payment deadline was March 1st.
This is not a matter of a league dispute; this is LeagueSafe not adhering to its own Terms and Conditions.
1. The league deadline for entry fee payments was 3/1/13.
2. Josh Meyer’s Commissioner status was revoked on 7/29/13.
3. The request for a refund was made on 7/30/13.
4. Per Terms and Conditions “After the League Payment Deadline, refunds are not allowed unless approved by the league Commissioner.”
5. I was the only Commissioner of the league on 7/30/13. I did not approve this transaction.
I do not expect you to “force” him to reimburse the league dues. Our “contract” is with you, the service provider. It makes no difference to us where the money comes from, but the fact of the matter is that you are the service provider, and you violated your own Terms and Conditions. It is your responsibility to rectify this violation. If you would like to pursue the $306 from Josh Meyers, we would encourage you to do so. However, regardless if you are successful in that endeavor or not, it still remains that the onus is on LeagueSafe to remedy the $306 that was incorrectly refunded from our league account.
Please reply as soon as possible with how you are going to resolve this issue. Regards,
Jared
Their reply:
Oct 30 10:58 (CDT)
Hey Jared,
I completely understand your frustrations.
At the time Josh received his refund, our policy, per our Terms of Service, was to refund a payment - no questions asked - until LeagueSafe's payment/refund deadline, which was 9/20.
After careful consideration, we decided to change this policy to what it currently reads in our Terms of Service. In all honesty, we changed this policy because of situations exactly like you're describing.
I'm very sorry this policy wasn't in place at the time Josh asked for a refund.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thank you for using LeagueSafe.
Beth W.
Customer Service Manager
All I'm looking for is for them to acknowledge their mistake and correct it. You are a service provider to a very specific clientel. Mistakes happen - would you rather own up to them, correct the issue, and get positive press for it, or stick to your guns and get horrible press over $306?
I like how she says, "In all honesty..." Oh, so you weren't being completely honest before, but NOW you're coming clean. Yeah, I completely trust you now.
My reply:
Oct 30 13:40 (CDT)
Beth,
Your statement is blatantly false, and it can be easily shown that this policy was in place at the time.
I have evidence that shows this, and it is readily available. I believe given the circumstances I have been more than reasonable in giving LeagueSafe an opportunity in righting this blatant disregard of your own Terms and Conditions. However, I also have 10 other owners in my league who are seriously upset about this, and word of what has happened is already spreading on some of the more well-known fantasy football forums. Two of the owners in this league write for online fantasy football sites, and another owner is an owner and co-founder of another high traffic site.
The ball is in your court, Beth. I cannot force you to do the right thing here and correct this. Mistakes happen, and I understand that. What I cannot tolerate, however, are false statements. I’m giving you the opportunity to make this right, and get positive press at the same time. Most of the other members in the league are upset more at Josh, not at LeagueSafe, and would be happy to tell everyone that this was corrected.
You’re forcing my hand here. If this mistake is corrected, and I will be happy to share the evidence with you that shows your statement is false and gladly tell me league mates that the mistake has been corrected. If you continue along this path, I will still show you the evidence, but I will also be showing it to the rest of my league mates.
Please let me know which course of action I should pursue. Regards,
-Jared
Now the boss joins the conversation.
Oct 30 14:59 (CDT)
Hi Jared,
I'd like to address a few issues related to the conversation you have been having with Beth.
First, she is correct in telling you that our Terms and Conditions changed shortly after Josh Meyer was granted a refund from your league. The segment you copy/pasted below is from our current T&Cs, which was updated on August 16, 2013 to amend our refund policy. However, at the time Josh made his refund request, we were following the exact policy that was outlined in our T&Cs at that time. We have not made any false statements whatsoever. At no point have we acted in a way that wasn't 100% consistent with the Terms and Conditions of our website. I will refer you to the very first paragraph of our Terms, which states: "LeagueSafe holds the right to amend the Terms at any time by posting a revised version on the LeagueSafe website. The revised version will be effective at the time we post it and applies to all Members."
I also want to reiterate that we changed our policy, in part, because of this exact situation. There are two sides to the payment deadline/refund issue. One is your side. The other is a dishonest league commissioner who creates what appears to be a legitimate league, gets 10 or more people to pay their entry fee, and then bumps their deadline way up to "trap" the league funds in an effort to simply allocate them back to himself at the end of the season. Up until very recently, we've always erred on the side of the individual owner, and our refund policy reflected that by offering a "no questions asked" refund policy up until a couple of weeks into the regular season. Owners were therefore protected against a fraudulent commissioner whose sole goal was to get people to pay into a league he never had any intention of playing out fairly. However, in response to several other situations just like yours, we decided to amend the refund policy to grant commissioners some extra protection against unscrupulous owners as well.
As of today (and every day since August 16, 2013), we've required commissioner approval for refund requests that come in after the league's payment deadline. While it's unfortunate that your circumstances arose prior to that date, I can't stress enough that we are in no way obligated to pay money into your league. We are providing a service that allows for the simplification of collecting fantasy league dues. In no way, shape, or form do we offer any type of guarantee related to being able to collect from every league member.
I apologize if you feel you were misled and I can certainly understand your frustration. Nobody wants a fantasy league to blow up in the middle of a season because of the actions of one dishonest owner. However, all of Josh's actions were posted on your league's LeagueSafe home page for anyone to see. Both his refund and his withdrawal from the league were posted before the season began (in the case of the actual refund, well before). There was no attempt to intentionally hide this information from anyone. I can't speculate as to why someone would pull their money out from a league in July and continue to act as if he was still a part of the league, but again, this is not LeagueSafe's fault. Your league owners are correct to be upset with Josh.
Unfortunately, all I can do in this particular case is offer an apology. It is my sincere belief that our updated refund policy will do a better job of protecting you, as the commissioner, against this type of action in the future.
Thank you,
Laura Drew
Manager
LeagueSafe Customer Support
Now at least they are kind-of admitting some fault here - but allegedly this happened before they updated their T&C and they are not claiming any liability.
Oct 30 15:13 (CDT)
Laura Drew,
I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way.
Below you will see a screen shot from LeagueSafe’s FAQ section. At the top of the page, you can clearly see that YOU personally made this post on “Apr 01 13:28.”
The post clearly states:
“After your league’s payment deadline has passed, all refund requests must first be approved by your league commissioner.”
1. Our league’s payment deadline was 3/1
2. I was league commissioner as of 7/29.
3. Josh received his refund on 7/30.
4. I did not approve this refund.
It’s really as simple as that. Your own post to the FAQ shows that the refund policy – which only allows refunds after the league payment deadline if approved by the commissioner – was in place almost 4 months before Josh’s transaction took place. I’m genuinely sorry that this is the course of action that you have chosen. Good day,
-JaredPictures or it didn't happen, I guess. (I'll be happy to post the picture here if anyone wants to see it - just tell me how to upload on this site. lol)
Saying "this is the only part that is binding" does not make it so. Saying that the policy was updated on August 16, 2013 doesn't make it so either. The onus is on them, and all they're doing is making claims without any support...while also admitting to flaws in their sysytem.
Oct 30 15:30 (CDT)
Hi Jared,
Unfortunately, it appears that the post in our FAQ - which was originally authored by me in April, shortly before we switched over to our new 3rd-party customer service ticket software - does not timestamp updates that are made. I updated that particular FAQ entry in August in conjunction with the updated Terms and Conditions. In an effort to prove this to you, I just went in and added the following line of text as the first sentence in that FAQ: "On August 16, 2013, we amended our refund policy. The new policy is described below." You'll notice that the timestamp remained April 1, despite the fact I changed it literally two minutes ago.
In any case, the binding document here is our Terms and Conditions, not our FAQ. We have acted in accordance with our Terms and Conditions every step of the way. Again, I understand why you are upset and I apologize for the confusion.
Laura Drew
Manager
LeagueSafe Customer Support
My reply:
Oct 30 16:11 (CDT)
Laura,
All that you're update shows is that the timestamp did not update as of today. It doesn't prove that the terms were actually updated when you say they were.
Your Privacy Policy page says, "Effective Date: July 7, 2011." Your Terms and Services page has no such update on it. The FAQ page did not have an update on it until I brought it to your attention. You've shown me no evidence, other than your word - which I'm sure you can understand means very little to me at this point - that these updates were made on August 16th as you claim.
You claim to have identified a flaw in your system that was being exploited and took action to correct that issue on August 16th. You did not notify your users that this risk had been identified and eliminate.
At best, you've shown apathy in regards to your product and your customers (which is especially poor practice considering the service you provide). At worst, you've shown negligence.
At this point, it doesn't really matter which lack of regard you're guilty of.
Regards,
-Jared
Her reply is below. The message is screwed up with some code on the left-hand side. Perhaps they decided to try and "fix" their timestamp issue after I made them aware of it with my last email, and it f'd up their email system? Who knows.
Oct 31 08:16 (CDT)
#2b2e2f;"> Hi Jared,
#2b2e2f;"> Obviously, you've made up your mind on this. I'm sorry that you were taken advantage of by a dishonest league member, and I will leave it at that. Let me be 100% clear: LeagueSafe has always acted in accordance with our Terms of Service when issuing refunds to our customers. We are in no way responsible for the $300 that a league owner pulled from your league nearly 6 weeks before the start of the NFL season. I encourage you to reach out to the owner that received the refund to see if you can resolve this issue on your own. LeagueSafe cannot and will not get in the middle of league disputes. If you're unhappy with our policies or procedures, I encourage you to use a different method of collecting your league fees in the future.
#2b2e2f;"> Thank you,
#2b2e2f;"> Laura Drew
Manager
LeagueSafe Customer Support
Well, there it is. I'll let you form your own conclusions. The FAQ post was updated yesterday, but the other pages don't have dates on them.
Oct 29 07:45 (CDT)
Hello,
My name is Jared ***, and I am the commissioner of a league that uses your site. Our leaguesafe homepage is https://www.leaguesafe.com/League/1382110
This is the first year of our fantasy league, and most of the owners do not know each other. To help keep the buy-in’s “safe,” one of our leaguemates, Josh Meyer, suggested we use your service. Josh was not the commissioner of the league, but he was put in charge of setting up the leaguesafe account because the commissioner was not familiar with your site.
This is a dynasty league, so we have quite a bit of activity during the NFL offseason. By 2/15/13, all 12 of our members had paid their $306 buy-in.
In July, our league commissioner (name removed) stepped down, and I took over his responsibilities. I am familiar with your site, and I use your services for other leagues that I am commissioner of. On7/29, Josh Meyer gave “commissioner” powers on your site to Chuck Cantrell. Chuck then gave me commissioner powers on the same day. I then removed Leaguesafe commissioner powers from Chuch and Josh (not sure if I did this on July 29th or in the next couple days).
Having said that:
Josh Meyer was still in our league for the first 7 weeks of the season has been inactive in our league since 10/20/13. He removed his contact information from the fantasy league homepage, and has made it obvious that he has dropped out. I’m still trying to contact him, but he is not responding.
Looking at our page on your website, Josh received a full refund of his $306 buy-in on 7/30, and he “left” our Leaguesafe site on 9/3. As commissioner, I did not receive any notification of either event.
MY QUESTIONS:
1. Why did Josh Meyer received a full refund on 7/30? We specifically chose to use your service just so that an issue like this would not occur. He was still active in our league, and there was no reason for him to receive a refund.
2. Why was I, as commissioner on Leaguesafe, not notified of either transaction – both Josh’s refund on 7/30 and him “leaving” the Leaguesafe league on 9/30?
3. What are you going to do to rectify this? This payment should not have been made to him, plain and simple. Josh’s team would not have made the playoff’s (which is probably why he decided to drop out after 7 weeks), so now we are short $306 for our payouts.
Please respond as soon as possible. Thank you,
-Jared ***
Their reply.
Oct 29 12:32 (CDT)
Hey Jared,
We refunded his payment because he made the refund request well before the 2013 NFL season began.
We do not notify the league commissioner via email when a league member receives a refund, or when a league member leaves the league.
LeagueSafe is never responsible for resolving disputes between a league commissioner and league members, or between league members. LeagueSafe always recommends that intra-league disputes be resolved internally. We cannot possibly know what is happening within a league hosted by ESPN, NFL.com, etc.
All these details are, however, displayed on the league events page.
You can get in touch with Josh and have him pay back into the league, but we cannot force him to do so.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thank you for using LeagueSafe.
Beth W.
Customer Service Manager
So they refunded his money because he asked them to and it was "well before" the start of the season. My reply:
Oct 29 13:13 (CDT)
Beth,
Your hyperlinks do not work, so I will reply here.
I looked back through my emails, and to confirm, I was made Commissioner on 7/29/13. I then removed Commissioner status from both *name removed* and Josh Meyers on that day – 7/29/13 – so that I was the only one with Commissioner rights.
Per LeagueSafe Terms and Conditions: https://www.leaguesafe.com/terms
“Refunds
LeagueSafe honors refunds any time prior to the League Payment Deadline. Members who wish to request a refund must notify LeagueSafe prior to the League Payment Deadline. After the League Payment Deadline, refunds are not allowed unless approved by the league Commissioner. This measure safeguards the league against Members who might wish to pull their funds from the league when it becomes apparent that their team isn’t performing well.
Refunds are not allowed after the Season Payment Deadline, unless authorized by the Commissioner.
According to our league Payment & Refund Deadline – 3/1/13 was the deadline for entry fee payments. According to the League Events, Josh Meyer received his refund of $306 on 7/30/13 – the day after his Commissioner status had been revoked. It doesn’t matter when the NFL season began – our payment deadline was March 1st.
This is not a matter of a league dispute; this is LeagueSafe not adhering to its own Terms and Conditions.
1. The league deadline for entry fee payments was 3/1/13.
2. Josh Meyer’s Commissioner status was revoked on 7/29/13.
3. The request for a refund was made on 7/30/13.
4. Per Terms and Conditions “After the League Payment Deadline, refunds are not allowed unless approved by the league Commissioner.”
5. I was the only Commissioner of the league on 7/30/13. I did not approve this transaction.
I do not expect you to “force” him to reimburse the league dues. Our “contract” is with you, the service provider. It makes no difference to us where the money comes from, but the fact of the matter is that you are the service provider, and you violated your own Terms and Conditions. It is your responsibility to rectify this violation. If you would like to pursue the $306 from Josh Meyers, we would encourage you to do so. However, regardless if you are successful in that endeavor or not, it still remains that the onus is on LeagueSafe to remedy the $306 that was incorrectly refunded from our league account.
Please reply as soon as possible with how you are going to resolve this issue. Regards,
Jared
Their reply:
Oct 30 10:58 (CDT)
Hey Jared,
I completely understand your frustrations.
At the time Josh received his refund, our policy, per our Terms of Service, was to refund a payment - no questions asked - until LeagueSafe's payment/refund deadline, which was 9/20.
After careful consideration, we decided to change this policy to what it currently reads in our Terms of Service. In all honesty, we changed this policy because of situations exactly like you're describing.
I'm very sorry this policy wasn't in place at the time Josh asked for a refund.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thank you for using LeagueSafe.
Beth W.
Customer Service Manager
All I'm looking for is for them to acknowledge their mistake and correct it. You are a service provider to a very specific clientel. Mistakes happen - would you rather own up to them, correct the issue, and get positive press for it, or stick to your guns and get horrible press over $306?
I like how she says, "In all honesty..." Oh, so you weren't being completely honest before, but NOW you're coming clean. Yeah, I completely trust you now.
My reply:
Oct 30 13:40 (CDT)
Beth,
Your statement is blatantly false, and it can be easily shown that this policy was in place at the time.
I have evidence that shows this, and it is readily available. I believe given the circumstances I have been more than reasonable in giving LeagueSafe an opportunity in righting this blatant disregard of your own Terms and Conditions. However, I also have 10 other owners in my league who are seriously upset about this, and word of what has happened is already spreading on some of the more well-known fantasy football forums. Two of the owners in this league write for online fantasy football sites, and another owner is an owner and co-founder of another high traffic site.
The ball is in your court, Beth. I cannot force you to do the right thing here and correct this. Mistakes happen, and I understand that. What I cannot tolerate, however, are false statements. I’m giving you the opportunity to make this right, and get positive press at the same time. Most of the other members in the league are upset more at Josh, not at LeagueSafe, and would be happy to tell everyone that this was corrected.
You’re forcing my hand here. If this mistake is corrected, and I will be happy to share the evidence with you that shows your statement is false and gladly tell me league mates that the mistake has been corrected. If you continue along this path, I will still show you the evidence, but I will also be showing it to the rest of my league mates.
Please let me know which course of action I should pursue. Regards,
-Jared
Now the boss joins the conversation.
Oct 30 14:59 (CDT)
Hi Jared,
I'd like to address a few issues related to the conversation you have been having with Beth.
First, she is correct in telling you that our Terms and Conditions changed shortly after Josh Meyer was granted a refund from your league. The segment you copy/pasted below is from our current T&Cs, which was updated on August 16, 2013 to amend our refund policy. However, at the time Josh made his refund request, we were following the exact policy that was outlined in our T&Cs at that time. We have not made any false statements whatsoever. At no point have we acted in a way that wasn't 100% consistent with the Terms and Conditions of our website. I will refer you to the very first paragraph of our Terms, which states: "LeagueSafe holds the right to amend the Terms at any time by posting a revised version on the LeagueSafe website. The revised version will be effective at the time we post it and applies to all Members."
I also want to reiterate that we changed our policy, in part, because of this exact situation. There are two sides to the payment deadline/refund issue. One is your side. The other is a dishonest league commissioner who creates what appears to be a legitimate league, gets 10 or more people to pay their entry fee, and then bumps their deadline way up to "trap" the league funds in an effort to simply allocate them back to himself at the end of the season. Up until very recently, we've always erred on the side of the individual owner, and our refund policy reflected that by offering a "no questions asked" refund policy up until a couple of weeks into the regular season. Owners were therefore protected against a fraudulent commissioner whose sole goal was to get people to pay into a league he never had any intention of playing out fairly. However, in response to several other situations just like yours, we decided to amend the refund policy to grant commissioners some extra protection against unscrupulous owners as well.
As of today (and every day since August 16, 2013), we've required commissioner approval for refund requests that come in after the league's payment deadline. While it's unfortunate that your circumstances arose prior to that date, I can't stress enough that we are in no way obligated to pay money into your league. We are providing a service that allows for the simplification of collecting fantasy league dues. In no way, shape, or form do we offer any type of guarantee related to being able to collect from every league member.
I apologize if you feel you were misled and I can certainly understand your frustration. Nobody wants a fantasy league to blow up in the middle of a season because of the actions of one dishonest owner. However, all of Josh's actions were posted on your league's LeagueSafe home page for anyone to see. Both his refund and his withdrawal from the league were posted before the season began (in the case of the actual refund, well before). There was no attempt to intentionally hide this information from anyone. I can't speculate as to why someone would pull their money out from a league in July and continue to act as if he was still a part of the league, but again, this is not LeagueSafe's fault. Your league owners are correct to be upset with Josh.
Unfortunately, all I can do in this particular case is offer an apology. It is my sincere belief that our updated refund policy will do a better job of protecting you, as the commissioner, against this type of action in the future.
Thank you,
Laura Drew
Manager
LeagueSafe Customer Support
Now at least they are kind-of admitting some fault here - but allegedly this happened before they updated their T&C and they are not claiming any liability.
Oct 30 15:13 (CDT)
Laura Drew,
I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way.
Below you will see a screen shot from LeagueSafe’s FAQ section. At the top of the page, you can clearly see that YOU personally made this post on “Apr 01 13:28.”
The post clearly states:
“After your league’s payment deadline has passed, all refund requests must first be approved by your league commissioner.”
1. Our league’s payment deadline was 3/1
2. I was league commissioner as of 7/29.
3. Josh received his refund on 7/30.
4. I did not approve this refund.
It’s really as simple as that. Your own post to the FAQ shows that the refund policy – which only allows refunds after the league payment deadline if approved by the commissioner – was in place almost 4 months before Josh’s transaction took place. I’m genuinely sorry that this is the course of action that you have chosen. Good day,
-JaredPictures or it didn't happen, I guess. (I'll be happy to post the picture here if anyone wants to see it - just tell me how to upload on this site. lol)
Saying "this is the only part that is binding" does not make it so. Saying that the policy was updated on August 16, 2013 doesn't make it so either. The onus is on them, and all they're doing is making claims without any support...while also admitting to flaws in their sysytem.
Oct 30 15:30 (CDT)
Hi Jared,
Unfortunately, it appears that the post in our FAQ - which was originally authored by me in April, shortly before we switched over to our new 3rd-party customer service ticket software - does not timestamp updates that are made. I updated that particular FAQ entry in August in conjunction with the updated Terms and Conditions. In an effort to prove this to you, I just went in and added the following line of text as the first sentence in that FAQ: "On August 16, 2013, we amended our refund policy. The new policy is described below." You'll notice that the timestamp remained April 1, despite the fact I changed it literally two minutes ago.
In any case, the binding document here is our Terms and Conditions, not our FAQ. We have acted in accordance with our Terms and Conditions every step of the way. Again, I understand why you are upset and I apologize for the confusion.
Laura Drew
Manager
LeagueSafe Customer Support
My reply:
Oct 30 16:11 (CDT)
Laura,
All that you're update shows is that the timestamp did not update as of today. It doesn't prove that the terms were actually updated when you say they were.
Your Privacy Policy page says, "Effective Date: July 7, 2011." Your Terms and Services page has no such update on it. The FAQ page did not have an update on it until I brought it to your attention. You've shown me no evidence, other than your word - which I'm sure you can understand means very little to me at this point - that these updates were made on August 16th as you claim.
You claim to have identified a flaw in your system that was being exploited and took action to correct that issue on August 16th. You did not notify your users that this risk had been identified and eliminate.
At best, you've shown apathy in regards to your product and your customers (which is especially poor practice considering the service you provide). At worst, you've shown negligence.
At this point, it doesn't really matter which lack of regard you're guilty of.
Regards,
-Jared
Her reply is below. The message is screwed up with some code on the left-hand side. Perhaps they decided to try and "fix" their timestamp issue after I made them aware of it with my last email, and it f'd up their email system? Who knows.
Oct 31 08:16 (CDT)
#2b2e2f;"> Hi Jared,
#2b2e2f;"> Obviously, you've made up your mind on this. I'm sorry that you were taken advantage of by a dishonest league member, and I will leave it at that. Let me be 100% clear: LeagueSafe has always acted in accordance with our Terms of Service when issuing refunds to our customers. We are in no way responsible for the $300 that a league owner pulled from your league nearly 6 weeks before the start of the NFL season. I encourage you to reach out to the owner that received the refund to see if you can resolve this issue on your own. LeagueSafe cannot and will not get in the middle of league disputes. If you're unhappy with our policies or procedures, I encourage you to use a different method of collecting your league fees in the future.
#2b2e2f;"> Thank you,
#2b2e2f;"> Laura Drew
Manager
LeagueSafe Customer Support
Well, there it is. I'll let you form your own conclusions. The FAQ post was updated yesterday, but the other pages don't have dates on them.
Last edited by a moderator:
Prior post. Jesus
