What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

who emerges as the #1 WR in NE? (1 Viewer)

burd

Footballguy
my guess is that Welker becomes Brady's favorite target but it can be any of the three. Who do you think will emerge as the #1 receiver?

Moss isn't a possession receiver so he'll probably get the occasional deep ball (like Terry Glenn) and Stallworth can be the #1 if he can stay healthy. Supposedly Welker will be their motion receiver so he probably won't get the defense's best CB, which will make him even more valuable. with so many great WRs, neither will be top performers since they'll have to share, but i like Welker. I think he'll do well

 
my guess is that Welker becomes Brady's favorite target but it can be any of the three. Who do you think will emerge as the #1 receiver? Moss isn't a possession receiver so he'll probably get the occasional deep ball (like Terry Glenn) and Stallworth can be the #1 if he can stay healthy. Supposedly Welker will be their motion receiver so he probably won't get the defense's best CB, which will make him even more valuable. with so many great WRs, neither will be top performers since they'll have to share, but i like Welker. I think he'll do well
Moss had back-to-back season with 100+ receptions. I wouldn't say that he is only a deep threat. I suspect Welker will have similar numbers to last year in MIA (67-687-1).
 
my guess is that Welker becomes Brady's favorite target but it can be any of the three. Who do you think will emerge as the #1 receiver? Moss isn't a possession receiver so he'll probably get the occasional deep ball (like Terry Glenn)
Terry Glenn only played four or five games with Brady and has a completely different style than Moss. I am not sure why he is a comparison.
 
People like Moss to catch a lot of passes huh? Interesting. I know he had some very productive seasons before he turned into a malcontent, but i thought that since he's getting up there in age, he wouldn't put his best effort to get separation on every play because of fatigue. (he didn't put his best effort on every play in his prime).

Anyway, i appreciate the feedback ... i had Moss typecast as a deep threat but seems that people think he can become a focal point of the passing game. Does anyone think Stallworth can become a major contributor? Who do defenses put their best CBs on? I'm thinking Moss and Stallworth get the best CBs, while Welker gets safety coverage or a third CB. Can't wait to see this offense in action.

 
Who ever gets open.

One week Moss will have 3 receptions, two weeks later he'll pull in 10+.

This offense will be so dynamic but I'm not sure how you pick a receiver as the leader.

 
greenline said:
Who ever gets open. One week Moss will have 3 receptions, two weeks later he'll pull in 10+. This offense will be so dynamic but I'm not sure how you pick a receiver as the leader.
Correct. Favorite reciever will have 73-75 receptions, 2nd favorite receiver will have 68-70 receptions, 3rd favorite will have 65-67 receptions. Their 4-5-6 WR's are Troy Brown, Jabbar Gaffney and Caldwell. Brady and Gaffney really started clicking at the end of the season and Brown is Brown. I will be surprised if anyone gets more than 75 receptions and 6 TD's - good WR2 numbers.....there will be no WR1 on this team.
 
harrycarey said:
The Scientist said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
The Scientist said:
Watson will be the most targeted of the WR's and the TE's.
highly doubt it
He had 92 targets in 13 games last year, and if Moss misses time :hey: could happen.
Yeah, he had 92 catches last year without Moss, Stallworth and Welker on th team.
not catches, TARGETS, big difference. He wont come close to leading this team in targets this season.
 
I don't think there will be a #1 in the true sense of the definition. Sure, there will be a player who gets targeted the most, but I don't think any one player will be targeted a good amount more than anyone else. It will be fairly evenly distributed. So from a fantasy perspective, I don't think NE WRs are going to be particularly reliable from week to week.

 
I don't think there will be a #1 in the true sense of the definition. Sure, there will be a player who gets targeted the most, but I don't think any one player will be targeted a good amount more than anyone else. It will be fairly evenly distributed. So from a fantasy perspective, I don't think NE WRs are going to be particularly reliable from week to week.
Well, now that they have 2 WRs clearly heads and tails above the rest, I think that will change.MossStallworthWelkerbacks and TEsanyone else
 
I don't think there will be a #1 in the true sense of the definition. Sure, there will be a player who gets targeted the most, but I don't think any one player will be targeted a good amount more than anyone else. It will be fairly evenly distributed. So from a fantasy perspective, I don't think NE WRs are going to be particularly reliable from week to week.
Well, now that they have 2 WRs clearly heads and tails above the rest, I think that will change.MossStallworthWelkerbacks and TEsanyone else
I would put Watson ahead of Welker, but I think there are at least 4 players Brady will throw to a good amount, not just 1 or 2.
 
I don't think there will be a #1 in the true sense of the definition. Sure, there will be a player who gets targeted the most, but I don't think any one player will be targeted a good amount more than anyone else. It will be fairly evenly distributed. So from a fantasy perspective, I don't think NE WRs are going to be particularly reliable from week to week.
Well, now that they have 2 WRs clearly heads and tails above the rest, I think that will change.MossStallworthWelkerbacks and TEsanyone else
From what I'm hearing, Welker could see 75+ receptions as a younger version of Troy Brown. He's getting billed as the underneath, move-the-chains guy. Stallworth likely will be the deep threat and will see fewer receptions but lots of big plays. I suspect Moss will be a blend of the two and will get anything from WR screens to deep fly patterns and all plays in between.Given the talent they have now, I also think that they will be able to get the ball to who they want better than they did in the past as all the receivers mandate coverage where as last year the talent they had was not as intimidating. Good defenses were able to go with single coverage and stuff the run and the Pats had some trouble moving the ball (see Denver, Miami, and Jets games as examples). I doubt that teams will be able to do that this year as there will be more guys with better skills to worry about.I've also heard rumblings that the Pats brass has been a little disappointed in Watson's development and he may be the odd man out in terms of number of targets. I still think he will do well with so many other receivers spreading the field, leaving him underneath with more room to ramble.No matter what, the Pats offense should be pretty interesting and more exciting to watch vs other seasons.
 
The Man with the Plan said:
Randy Moss, Wes Welker, or Donte Stallworth? As if there's a choice. Is this some kind of joke? This is paralysis by analysis at it's finest.
:lmao: I cant believe there is even a question on this. :lmao:
 
I just cannot believe how people cannot understand that when you play with crappy Qbs, crappy OL and crappy RBs, you cannot produce. That is what happened to Moss in Oak last year. He will easily be the best WR on that team, injury notwithstanding.

 
I just cannot believe how people cannot understand that when you play with crappy Qbs, crappy OL and crappy RBs, you cannot produce. That is what happened to Moss in Oak last year. He will easily be the best WR on that team, injury notwithstanding.
So Moss didn't quit on the team? It was everyone else's fault?
 
I just cannot believe how people cannot understand that when you play with crappy Qbs, crappy OL and crappy RBs, you cannot produce. That is what happened to Moss in Oak last year.
He also stopped trying. That doesn't help. Ronald Curry produced just fine down the stretch last year with the same supporting cast. He was trying.To answer the original question, I think it'll change from week to week. There will be no "Randy Ratio" in New England.
 
Let's assume Randy Moss quit on him team in Oakland (like that's the reason they had one of the worst offenses ever) so what? He doesn't play there anymore. He plays for the Patriots now. From what I hear they're pretty good. He only "quits" on bad teams.

Randy Moss is one of the greatest wide receivers of all time and he now gets to play with Tom Brady one of (if not the) greatest quarterbacks of all time. How isn't this a match made in heaven? It's really that simple folks. A slot wide receiver and the incredibly overrated Donte Stallworth are not going to keep Moss from returning to greatness.

Brady to Moss. Live it. Learn it. Love it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't think there will be a #1 in the true sense of the definition. Sure, there will be a player who gets targeted the most, but I don't think any one player will be targeted a good amount more than anyone else. It will be fairly evenly distributed. So from a fantasy perspective, I don't think NE WRs are going to be particularly reliable from week to week.
Well, now that they have 2 WRs clearly heads and tails above the rest, I think that will change.MossStallworthWelkerbacks and TEsanyone else
From what I'm hearing, Welker could see 75+ receptions as a younger version of Troy Brown. He's getting billed as the underneath, move-the-chains guy. Stallworth likely will be the deep threat and will see fewer receptions but lots of big plays. I suspect Moss will be a blend of the two and will get anything from WR screens to deep fly patterns and all plays in between.Given the talent they have now, I also think that they will be able to get the ball to who they want better than they did in the past as all the receivers mandate coverage where as last year the talent they had was not as intimidating. Good defenses were able to go with single coverage and stuff the run and the Pats had some trouble moving the ball (see Denver, Miami, and Jets games as examples). I doubt that teams will be able to do that this year as there will be more guys with better skills to worry about.I've also heard rumblings that the Pats brass has been a little disappointed in Watson's development and he may be the odd man out in terms of number of targets. I still think he will do well with so many other receivers spreading the field, leaving him underneath with more room to ramble.No matter what, the Pats offense should be pretty interesting and more exciting to watch vs other seasons.
I highly doubt Welker sees anywhere NEAR 75 receptions. Don't get me wrong, he's fine in the slot, but throwing to him 5+ times a game is not going to win you games.
 
greenline said:
Who ever gets open. One week Moss will have 3 receptions, two weeks later he'll pull in 10+. This offense will be so dynamic but I'm not sure how you pick a receiver as the leader.
So in that case, which I happen to agree with, you take the one you can take the latest in the draft. Moss is rated in the mid teen range and Stallworth is in the mid thirties as far as wideout rankings. Welker is in the 60+ group. So you can spend two late pick potentially and snag Stallworth and Welker. This might be the way to go. You will probably be able to get Welker in the final round or as a UDFA. Somebody always jumps from the undrafted ranks and blossoms into a starting caliber WR. Welker has a shot at being a 900 - 8 type of guy. Not saying it's all that likely, but a low-downside-decent-upside player.Stallworth and Moss are a tossup to me and I think Stallworth is representing a very nice value as he can be had several rounds later as a nice WR2 - WR3 - flex type player. If you can bank 2/3rds of the top wideouts and potentially (if Stallworth becomes the number 1) the top receiver on an offense that could score 30 receiving touchdowns, you could be getting a nice piece of that pie for a pittance (6th rounder and 14th rounder for example).
 
greenline said:
Who ever gets open. One week Moss will have 3 receptions, two weeks later he'll pull in 10+. This offense will be so dynamic but I'm not sure how you pick a receiver as the leader.
Correct. Favorite reciever will have 73-75 receptions, 2nd favorite receiver will have 68-70 receptions, 3rd favorite will have 65-67 receptions. Their 4-5-6 WR's are Troy Brown, Jabbar Gaffney and Caldwell. Brady and Gaffney really started clicking at the end of the season and Brown is Brown. I will be surprised if anyone gets more than 75 receptions and 6 TD's - good WR2 numbers.....there will be no WR1 on this team.
Those expecting Wes Welker to approximate what he did in Miami or to come within shouting distance of Moss' productivity are seriously misunderstanding the collective abilities and roles of each receiver.
 
greenline said:
Who ever gets open. One week Moss will have 3 receptions, two weeks later he'll pull in 10+. This offense will be so dynamic but I'm not sure how you pick a receiver as the leader.
Correct. Favorite reciever will have 73-75 receptions, 2nd favorite receiver will have 68-70 receptions, 3rd favorite will have 65-67 receptions. Their 4-5-6 WR's are Troy Brown, Jabbar Gaffney and Caldwell. Brady and Gaffney really started clicking at the end of the season and Brown is Brown. I will be surprised if anyone gets more than 75 receptions and 6 TD's - good WR2 numbers.....there will be no WR1 on this team.
Those expecting Wes Welker to approximate what he did in Miami or to come within shouting distance of Moss' productivity are seriously misunderstanding the collective abilities and roles of each receiver.
:confused: Welker in MIA = good WRWelker in NE = mediocre WR, solid KR/ST playerIt's all relative to other talent on the team. In MIA, there was no one else. Booker? Chambers? Neither one are near Moss or Stallworth in terms of raw talent and ability.
 
greenline said:
Who ever gets open. One week Moss will have 3 receptions, two weeks later he'll pull in 10+. This offense will be so dynamic but I'm not sure how you pick a receiver as the leader.
Correct. Favorite reciever will have 73-75 receptions, 2nd favorite receiver will have 68-70 receptions, 3rd favorite will have 65-67 receptions. Their 4-5-6 WR's are Troy Brown, Jabbar Gaffney and Caldwell. Brady and Gaffney really started clicking at the end of the season and Brown is Brown. I will be surprised if anyone gets more than 75 receptions and 6 TD's - good WR2 numbers.....there will be no WR1 on this team.
Those expecting Wes Welker to approximate what he did in Miami or to come within shouting distance of Moss' productivity are seriously misunderstanding the collective abilities and roles of each receiver.
Welker can definitely reproduce what he did in Miami last year. I do agree that he won't approach Moss's numbers, but 67-687 is reasonable.
 
I would think Moss would have a good chance to break that "no WR gets 1000 yards or 7+ TDs in New England" curse. I think it's quite possible that he will be positively influenced by the atmosphere and leadership that NE has in abundance, and Moss has the talent, without doubt.

Stallworth and Welker should be role-players - deep threat and underneath guy, respectively. Can't see Stallworth getting more than 50-60 catches, and Welker should be in the 40-45 range.

 
Welker can definitely reproduce what he did in Miami last year. I do agree that he won't approach Moss's numbers, but 67-687 is reasonable.
The problem with this is that it totally disregards the reality of NE...For welker to get 60 catches, that's over 4 per game. That's actual catches, not targets.Last season, in a pretty average passing season for Brady, he threw the ball 20 times per game. And, as typical he passed more when behind.If you project Welker, as the #3 WR to see 4 catches per game (about 7 passes thrown his direction), then you have to project Brady throwing it alot more this season.Unless you think Moss and Stallworth will only see the same number of passes as Welker, and the rest of the team combined does the same.Here's how I see it:Brady completes on average 20 (15 low, 30 high) passes a game -Moss nabs 5-8Stallworth 4-6Welker 2-3Watson 2-3Faulk 1-3Gaffney 0-2Brown 0-2Caldwell 0-1Welker should see 50 receptions tops.
 
The media around here are going bonkers over Welker. Most people are saying 80-100 receptions (which I personally think is way too high). Apparently the plan may be to use Welker on a ton of underneath routes for 6, 8, 10 yards a pop. Supposedly Welker will be on the field a lot and will serve the safety valve role for Brady.

Troy Brown had 97-890-3 in 2002, and that's the role that people that cover the team think he will serve. Again, I think that's wishful thinking, but I've heard it from several people that cover the team that the fantasy brotherhood is sleeping on a guy that is going to get a ton of short receptions.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but that's what I'm hearing . . .

 
Welker can definitely reproduce what he did in Miami last year. I do agree that he won't approach Moss's numbers, but 67-687 is reasonable.
The problem with this is that it totally disregards the reality of NE...For welker to get 60 catches, that's over 4 per game. That's actual catches, not targets.Last season, in a pretty average passing season for Brady, he threw the ball 20 times per game. And, as typical he passed more when behind.If you project Welker, as the #3 WR to see 4 catches per game (about 7 passes thrown his direction), then you have to project Brady throwing it alot more this season.Unless you think Moss and Stallworth will only see the same number of passes as Welker, and the rest of the team combined does the same.Here's how I see it:Brady completes on average 20 (15 low, 30 high) passes a game -Moss nabs 5-8Stallworth 4-6Welker 2-3Watson 2-3Faulk 1-3Gaffney 0-2Brown 0-2Caldwell 0-1Welker should see 50 receptions tops.
Here's the thing. People are trying to mold the Patriots v 2.007 to be like the other NE teams from the Brady era. IMO, that's a mistake. On paper, they will be more pass-oriented than run oriented. Brady averaged 23 completions a game in 2003, and I think that's more in line with what he'll do this time around.On a per game average . . .Welker 5Moss 4.5Stallworth 3Watson 2.5RBs 4.5Other WRs 2Other TEs 1.5That works out to 23 completions a game and 368 on the season. That puts him in the same range as Manning.
 
The media around here are going bonkers over Welker. Most people are saying 80-100 receptions (which I personally think is way too high). Apparently the plan may be to use Welker on a ton of underneath routes for 6, 8, 10 yards a pop. Supposedly Welker will be on the field a lot and will serve the safety valve role for Brady.Troy Brown had 97-890-3 in 2002, and that's the role that people that cover the team think he will serve. Again, I think that's wishful thinking, but I've heard it from several people that cover the team that the fantasy brotherhood is sleeping on a guy that is going to get a ton of short receptions.Feel free to agree or disagree, but that's what I'm hearing . . .
Brown was the target by default...this year they have RANDY MOSS, and Donte, and Troy, and Kelley or Caldwell, and Ben Watson, and Kevin Faulk...etc...etc...
 
The Scientist said:
Watson will be the most targeted of the WR's and the TE's.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: he said Watson! LOL..

dude couldn't be the main man last season, where he caught just 6 more balls that 57 year old Troy Brown ( Watson caught 49), on a team where Reche Caldwell led the way with just 61 catches. Now ,suddenly, he's gonna pass up Moss, Welker, Stallworth?!?!? oh please...Watson had his chance to step up last season, and he fell flat on his face.

Even Faulk had 43 catches last season!

in NO WAY , will Ben Watson do ANYTHING more than than 35-40 catches in 2007, as the ` too many mouths to feed ` syndrome will kill his chances to do anything meaningful in fantasy football terms..

Welker will probably catch close to 75 balls this season, Brady loves his smallish WR's ,esp. guys who don't mind running crossing routes..Stallworth can't stay healthy, and Moss is going to get a lot of attention, so Welker is the wildcard here..

Moss should lead the team in receptions and TD's..but Welker will likely finish 2nd in receptions and rec. yards.

 
The media around here are going bonkers over Welker. Most people are saying 80-100 receptions (which I personally think is way too high). Apparently the plan may be to use Welker on a ton of underneath routes for 6, 8, 10 yards a pop. Supposedly Welker will be on the field a lot and will serve the safety valve role for Brady.Troy Brown had 97-890-3 in 2002, and that's the role that people that cover the team think he will serve. Again, I think that's wishful thinking, but I've heard it from several people that cover the team that the fantasy brotherhood is sleeping on a guy that is going to get a ton of short receptions.Feel free to agree or disagree, but that's what I'm hearing . . .
Brown was the target by default...this year they have RANDY MOSS, and Donte, and Troy, and Kelley or Caldwell, and Ben Watson, and Kevin Faulk...etc...etc...
Don't shoot the messenger, shoot the message. I've heard it all over the radio, tv, and in print that they are saying Welker = Brown in his prime and he will see the ball A LOT. The numbers people are throwing out in terms of receptions is mind boggling.I'm with you, JW, that the math doesn't add up. But they gave up a second round pick to get him, and it also doesn't make sende that they would want to burn a second round pick on a guy that will only get 30 receptions on the season.As for the guys you rambled off, I'm not sure they'll all stick and be on the squad. They don't have enough roster space for all of them. Chad Jackson most likely will start the regular year on the PUP list. With Moss, Stallworth, Welker, and Brown already set that leaves one or two more spots for Washington, Caldwell, and Gaffney.
 
The media around here are going bonkers over Welker. Most people are saying 80-100 receptions (which I personally think is way too high). Apparently the plan may be to use Welker on a ton of underneath routes for 6, 8, 10 yards a pop. Supposedly Welker will be on the field a lot and will serve the safety valve role for Brady.Troy Brown had 97-890-3 in 2002, and that's the role that people that cover the team think he will serve. Again, I think that's wishful thinking, but I've heard it from several people that cover the team that the fantasy brotherhood is sleeping on a guy that is going to get a ton of short receptions.Feel free to agree or disagree, but that's what I'm hearing . . .
Brown was the target by default...this year they have RANDY MOSS, and Donte, and Troy, and Kelley or Caldwell, and Ben Watson, and Kevin Faulk...etc...etc...
Don't shoot the messenger, shoot the message. I've heard it all over the radio, tv, and in print that they are saying Welker = Brown in his prime and he will see the ball A LOT. The numbers people are throwing out in terms of receptions is mind boggling.I'm with you, JW, that the math doesn't add up. But they gave up a second round pick to get him, and it also doesn't make sende that they would want to burn a second round pick on a guy that will only get 30 receptions on the season.As for the guys you rambled off, I'm not sure they'll all stick and be on the squad. They don't have enough roster space for all of them. Chad Jackson most likely will start the regular year on the PUP list. With Moss, Stallworth, Welker, and Brown already set that leaves one or two more spots for Washington, Caldwell, and Gaffney.
:popcorn:Vis-a-vis the Welker "2nd round pick" issue; I've heard this a lot (as I'm sure you have) but I think it's important to remember that New England had no idea it would a) be successful in signing Stallworth (he almost reupped in Philly) and b) acquire Randy Moss from Oakland. It's not as though the Patriots got Moss, got Stallworth and then went out and signed Welker to a deal and paid a 2nd for him. Welker is a great special teamer, has sure hands and won't ##### about not getting tons of PT. I'm sure the Pats won't regret bringing him into the fold. When you consider Stallworth's injury history, Welker could easily be the starter opposite Moss for quite a few games.
 
Here's the thing. People are trying to mold the Patriots v 2.007 to be like the other NE teams from the Brady era. IMO, that's a mistake. On paper, they will be more pass-oriented than run oriented. Brady averaged 23 completions a game in 2003, and I think that's more in line with what he'll do this time around.
You do realize the reaon Brady passed that much in 2003 is because THEY HAD NO RUNNING GAME!!!!! Antowain Smith led the team with 182 carries. Kevin Faulk had 178. That's pathetic!There is no way Maroney, barring injury, sees that few carries. This team will run more than in 2003.There is no reason to think Brady will pass more... sure he has better targets, but Belichek is still a ball control, defensive minded coach.
On a per game average . . .Welker 5Moss 4.5Stallworth 3Watson 2.5RBs 4.5Other WRs 2Other TEs 1.5
Even if he threw the ball 23 times a game, I highly doubt Welker is the number 1 target. The point of passing more is to have a more explosive offense, unless you are running the WCO (which they are not). If you pass to Welker 5 times a game, you lose. Peroid. I'm sure the reporters love him, he's a scrappy, hard working football player, right in line with the NE persona. But that doesn't make him the guy you want catching the ball 5 times, targeted 9-10 times.
That works out to 23 completions a game and 368 on the season. That puts him in the same range as Manning.
What does Manning have to do with this? Brady is Brady, Mannign is Manning. Different players, different teams, different systems. Brady will never be Manning, Manning will never be Brady.
 
When Troy Brown had those high reception seasons it was when he was the only real threat the Pats had at WR. That is not the situation now.

There will be games that Moss performs like the #1 WR. However defenses will roll coverage his way and Brady will take advantage of mismatches elsewhere.

For Welker his targets will be dependent on how much they run 3 or more WR sets. I think the 2TE set is still going to be a alignment they use fairly often and that will limit Welkers opportunity. I think some of the other TE (besides Wtson) may get more targets than some people think in those alignments. When they do use 3 or more WR sets however Welker may be the mismatch that Brady takes advantage of often.

Stallworth as long as he is healthy is a serious threat. He did well with McNabb last year. Moss has better hands and body control but Stallworth may have more juice than Moss does at this point.

60-70 receptions for each of the 3 primary WR may be what we end up seeing with all of the alignment changes. Stallworth is the wildcard here because of his tendency to miss games. He might not get as many catches as Welker.

This is Tom Brady. I just cannot see him heaving it up to Moss over and over again even in double coverage like Moss has taken advantage of in the past. Moss will have to get open for Brady to throw to him and because of this I don't think Moss will get as many targets as some people think.

That being said I still expect Moss to be the best Pats WR. He just may not be that far ahead of the others in total performance as some people expect.

 
The media around here are going bonkers over Welker. Most people are saying 80-100 receptions (which I personally think is way too high). Apparently the plan may be to use Welker on a ton of underneath routes for 6, 8, 10 yards a pop. Supposedly Welker will be on the field a lot and will serve the safety valve role for Brady.Troy Brown had 97-890-3 in 2002, and that's the role that people that cover the team think he will serve. Again, I think that's wishful thinking, but I've heard it from several people that cover the team that the fantasy brotherhood is sleeping on a guy that is going to get a ton of short receptions.Feel free to agree or disagree, but that's what I'm hearing . . .
Brown was the target by default...this year they have RANDY MOSS, and Donte, and Troy, and Kelley or Caldwell, and Ben Watson, and Kevin Faulk...etc...etc...
Don't shoot the messenger, shoot the message. I've heard it all over the radio, tv, and in print that they are saying Welker = Brown in his prime and he will see the ball A LOT. The numbers people are throwing out in terms of receptions is mind boggling.I'm with you, JW, that the math doesn't add up. But they gave up a second round pick to get him, and it also doesn't make sende that they would want to burn a second round pick on a guy that will only get 30 receptions on the season. As for the guys you rambled off, I'm not sure they'll all stick and be on the squad. They don't have enough roster space for all of them. Chad Jackson most likely will start the regular year on the PUP list. With Moss, Stallworth, Welker, and Brown already set that leaves one or two more spots for Washington, Caldwell, and Gaffney.
:rolleyes:Vis-a-vis the Welker "2nd round pick" issue; I've heard this a lot (as I'm sure you have) but I think it's important to remember that New England had no idea it would a) be successful in signing Stallworth (he almost reupped in Philly) and b) acquire Randy Moss from Oakland. It's not as though the Patriots got Moss, got Stallworth and then went out and signed Welker to a deal and paid a 2nd for him. Welker is a great special teamer, has sure hands and won't ##### about not getting tons of PT. I'm sure the Pats won't regret bringing him into the fold. When you consider Stallworth's injury history, Welker could easily be the starter opposite Moss for quite a few games.
The Pats aquired Welker because of how he plays, HARD. He runs around like a man posessed and will do about anything asked of him. Belichick likes people who play hard on every down. Welker fits that mold.I will be interested to see how well Moss plays in the middle of the field. If he shows a willingness to take a hit then he could be a bigger factor than many of us anticipate. Same applies to Stallworth. Both these guys will be used to stretch the field. Defenses will have to respect their ability to get down field. Welker will likely be used in the slot on most plays. Brady will spread the ball around. The team philosophy will not change. The passing game will be huge for opening up the running game. With the injury to Maroney late in the year and Dillon's lack of conditioning/age hurt them in the playoffs.
 
Brady has had between 474 and 601 pass attempts per year. The 474 was in Corey Dillon's big year in 2004. The 601 was the year that they couldn't stop the run in 2002. I think their defense is good enough that 600 is out of the question. I don't think they're going to hammer Maroney, Morris and Faulk so much that we'll see 474, either. Belichick likes to step on his opponent's throats, not blindly run the clock down, unless he's up by 15+ in the second half. I think he'll be in the mid-high range for pass attempts, so I'll call it 550 pass attempts.

Brady's completion percentage has been between 60.2 and 63.9. His best years were 2001, when he was throwing to Troy Brown a lot, and 2005, when Branch and Givens both had their best seasons. This will be the best set of receivers he has ever had. I'd say he should have at least a 63% completion percentage, and it may even be higher.

550 pass attempts x 63% is about 350 completions. Brady had 334 completions in 2005, and 373 in 2002, compared with 288, 319 and 317 in his three other full years. This seems like a little higher, but reasonable estimate for him this year.

Over the last five years, here's how the receptions have split out:

2001

WR Total Receptions 190

WR1 101

WR2 51

WR3 14

TE 19

RB 93

BRADY 264 (40 completions by other passers)

2002

WR Total Receptions 222

WR1 97

WR2 61

WR3 43

TE 63

RB 93

BRADY 373 (5 completions by other passers)

2003

WR Total Receptions 178

WR1 57

WR2 40

WR3 34

TE 66

RB 88

BRADY 317 (5 completions by other passers)

2004

WR Total Receptions 162

WR1 56

WR2 44

WR3 35

TE 65

RB 70

BRADY 293 (4 completions by other passers)

2005

WR Total Receptions 211

WR1 78

WR2 59

WR3 39

TE 53

RB 84

BRADY 334 (14 completions by other passers)

2006

WR Total Receptions 156

WR1 61

WR2 43* (*Ben Watson had 49 receptions. Also, the #2 receiver changed throughout the year.)

WR3 25*

TE 81

RB 89

BRADY 319 (7 completions by other passers)

A couple things to put these numbers in perspective:

In 2001 and 2002, Troy Brown was the best receiver on the team. He had 198 receptions in those two seasons. So it is possible for the #1 receiver to have 100 catches.

In 2005, Branch was the best receiver on the team. He had 78 receptions. When Brady has a top receiver, it is possible for him to get ~80 receptions.

The #1 receiver on the team has never had less than 56 receptions.

The #1 recever on the team averages 75 receptions over the course of Brady's career.

The #2 receiver on the team has never had more than 61 receptions.

The #2 receiver on the team averages 50 receptions over the course of Brady's career.

The #3 receiver on the team has never had more than 43 receptions.

The #3 receiver on the team averages 32 receptions over the course of Brady's career.

The tight ends have had between 53 and 65 receptions every year but 2001, when they only had 19 receptions, and last year, when they had an uncharacteristically high 81.

The tight end corps has averaged 63 receptions per year. 2001's low water mark is largely because they had no talent at the position. They drafted Daniel Graham in the first round in 2002 and added Fauria and Cleeland. 2006's high water mark is largely because Watson was the #2 receiver on the team with 49 receptions, compared with the #2 WR who had 43.

The running backs have pretty steadily had between 84 and 93 receptions. The only outlier year, with 70, was the year Corey Dillon arrived. He ran more, and caught less.

So let's take this information and use it to project the Pats.

We'll assume the TEs will no longer be considered the top receiving option. The Patriots now have legitimate WR threats. We'll also assume the running backs continue to contribute in the passing game, but maybe a little lower than normal. And last but not least, we'll assume that Moss is a little closer to a Troy Brown/Deion Branch skill level than Reche Caldwell.

2007

WR Total Receptions 200

Moss 82

Welker 56

Stallworth 52

WR4-6 28

TE 50

RB 84

BRADY 350

Rumors of Moss' demise have been greatly exaggerated. Even in Oakland, he averaged over 15 yards per catch, and a TD/9 receptions. It's his receptions that dropped down. If you assume those same numbers from him in New England, you could predict him for:

Moss 82 receptions, 1200 yards, 9 TDs

That seems like a reasonable estimate to me. And that would make him a top 10 WR.

Note that I'm not making any wild predictions about Moss, or the New England offense here. I'm assuming they stay around historical levels, that Moss continues to produce near his average YPC in Oakland, and that he fills the #1 receiver role for New England. All of those seem like reasonable assumptions to me.

Now let's assess his risk/reward. Could he do better than this? Sort of. I don't think it's likely that he'll get 100 receptions. But he could catch more TDs, since he's probably the best red zone receiver on the team. Could he do worse than this? Definitely. It's remotely possible that he won't be the WR1, or that he'll miss time (he has only missed eight games in his career, but they've all been in the last three years). Could he get benched or cut? Yes. Belichick will keep him on a short leash.

Overall, I'd put him at the bottom of the top ten, or maybe just outside it, because of the risk. I think there's a better chance that he busts than that he's the guy that carries your team to the championship, but I think he's a better WR option than almost anyone outside the top ten receivers. I think he deserves consideration somewhere between picks 30 and 50. Right now his ADP is on the low end of that range at 44th overall.

 
The Man with the Plan said:
Randy Moss, Wes Welker, or Donte Stallworth? As if there's a choice. Is this some kind of joke? This is paralysis by analysis at it's finest.
:shrug: The thread really didn't need to go any further than this right here.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top