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Who is the #4 best NBA player of all-time? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Frostillicus
- Start date
the moops
Footballguy
Go watch some Matlock reruns grampsI was discussing this a while back and realized the missing piece in this debate is what era's rules are you playing? Are you playing the "you cant touch this" rules of today or the clothesline is a foul and nothing more of the 80s? Today's players are soft and if you even look at a superstar funny the refs put them on the line. Heck, you don't even need to dribble anymore. But they may also be bigger and more athletic. Who survives best in the other's era?
But back to the hill that you all will try and kill me on as an older person who has watched less and less NBA over the years because its a crap product now.......
Jordan and Russell are 1A/1B
Wilt is a great call for 3, he was dominant except when he faced playoff Russell.
I'm taking Magic and Bird over LeBron and Kobe isn't even a top 5 Laker of all time, let alone anywhere near a goat conversation.
YEAH I WROTE THESE THINGS, COME AT ME BRO!!
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I’m going to wait until Magic takes the lead back.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
These threads really capture the spirit of the normal NBA thread.
Jayrod
Footballguy
I take back every nice thing I've ever said about you.I’m going to wait until Magic takes the lead back.
You are the worst.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Neither did Wilt.
If you go down the YouTube rabbit hole of watching old-timey NBA clips, the game changes drastically over the course of the 1950s. The "plumbers and locksmiths" thing is pretty appropriate for 1951. It's a bunch of slow white guys shooting set shots. George Mikan was listed 6'10, 245 and he looks like somebody's dad playing in a U12 game.
Way different by the 60s. You have jump shots, more fluid athletes, way better handles. From 52-53 to 62-63, league average scoring went up more than 30 points and FG% jumped from 37% to 44%. Wilt still had huge physical advantages of course, but he's usually guarded by someone 6-10 and not a total stiff. There's a reason him and Russell are always in these conversations and Mikan and Neil Johnston are not.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I don't think you have much to take back lol.I take back every nice thing I've ever said about you.I’m going to wait until Magic takes the lead back.
You are the worst.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I'll start #5 on Monday. I will add Hakeem and Robinson. Anyone else who I should add at this point?
dkp993
Footballguy
Harden and Westbrook
TripItUp
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm tempted to go with Oscar because we know the NBA is a big point guard's league.
Michael
LeBron
Magic
Oscar
There ya go. Triple doubles galore.
Michael
LeBron
Magic
Oscar
There ya go. Triple doubles galore.
the moops
Footballguy
David Robinson? The tiny guard guy Robinson? Duncan Robinson? What the hell are we even doing in this place
Also - Steph, Jokic, and Giannis better start making some of these lists
the moops
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Tongue planted firmly in cheek on my end because I know **** about ball, but nice stats. Interesting.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I dunno. Somebody said I should add Robinson. Relax, nerd.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
May need to get Russell Westbrook up here soon.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Are we even sure Jokic is good?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Neck and neck - think this poll will settle nothing.
I had the privilege of seeing Earvin Johnson a 7-8 times at Lansing Everett. Many of those were versus crosstown rival Lansing Eastern (led by Jay Vincent) as the local tv station televised them, and we went to a few of their District and Regional tournament games. He was always special but didn't really bring the ball up versus the press until his senior year. in 1976 they were upset by Detroit Catholic Central - the school doesn't exist anymore having moved to the suburbs of Novi - and over the summer their starting point guard, Reggie Chastine, was killed in a car crash. He was Big E's best friend, they dedicated the season to him, and Earvin became a full-time distributor (in addition to averaging 28.8 or sumtin'.) Was never a player like quite like him.
I voted for Wilt. To my generation (I'll be 61 in a few weeks), he is Babe Ruth. I missed pretty much all of the disappointments of constantly losing to Russell and the Celtics. I only remember him from the Lakers, battling rookie Lew Alcindor, Willis Reed and those great Knicks teams, and the magical 69 win/33 straight Lakers of 1971-72. In a team sport, he represents the pinnacle of individual achievement. In scoring, rebounding, and from 1967 onward, being a passing center to run the offense through. He never fouled out in his 13 (14?) seasons, but other than the occasional spectacular block, he was no Nate Thurmond. He played an obscene amount of minutes but he was also coasting along for 3 quarters in regular season games. In the ultimate pressure cooker, the playoffs, he failed a lot more than he succeeded. Obviously a very flawed giant. But he was such a beast amongst mortals, bigger, stronger, dominant, an absolute force of nature.
Fun polls, thanks @Frostillicus
I had the privilege of seeing Earvin Johnson a 7-8 times at Lansing Everett. Many of those were versus crosstown rival Lansing Eastern (led by Jay Vincent) as the local tv station televised them, and we went to a few of their District and Regional tournament games. He was always special but didn't really bring the ball up versus the press until his senior year. in 1976 they were upset by Detroit Catholic Central - the school doesn't exist anymore having moved to the suburbs of Novi - and over the summer their starting point guard, Reggie Chastine, was killed in a car crash. He was Big E's best friend, they dedicated the season to him, and Earvin became a full-time distributor (in addition to averaging 28.8 or sumtin'.) Was never a player like quite like him.
I voted for Wilt. To my generation (I'll be 61 in a few weeks), he is Babe Ruth. I missed pretty much all of the disappointments of constantly losing to Russell and the Celtics. I only remember him from the Lakers, battling rookie Lew Alcindor, Willis Reed and those great Knicks teams, and the magical 69 win/33 straight Lakers of 1971-72. In a team sport, he represents the pinnacle of individual achievement. In scoring, rebounding, and from 1967 onward, being a passing center to run the offense through. He never fouled out in his 13 (14?) seasons, but other than the occasional spectacular block, he was no Nate Thurmond. He played an obscene amount of minutes but he was also coasting along for 3 quarters in regular season games. In the ultimate pressure cooker, the playoffs, he failed a lot more than he succeeded. Obviously a very flawed giant. But he was such a beast amongst mortals, bigger, stronger, dominant, an absolute force of nature.
Fun polls, thanks @Frostillicus
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I agree
the moops
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
You can change your vote nowadays
Jayrod
Footballguy
What?
This isn't a greatest Lakers contest.
Baylor isn't even a top 15 guy.
You guys are making me hate the Lakers even more now.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Sure you do.
Capella
Footballguy
Yea I mean it’s our go-to argument because it’s true lol
I had no idea!
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Sorry all the best players were on the Lakers.
I haven’t made a list but Baylor is easily top 10-15. I can’t imagine Robinson making my top 25-30. He has no place in a vote for 5th best center ever let alone 5th best player.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Woot.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Baylor was phenomenal before hurting his knee during the ‘64-65 season. I mean, we’re talking about a guy who averaged 38 pts and 18.6 rebounds per game while playing part time, and never practicing with the team, because he was in the Army Reserves. He was the predecessor to Dr J and MJ — he created verticality in the NBA. He also scored 71 pts in a single game, his second season in the league, the most anyone scored at that stage until Wilt scored 100.
After the injury he was really good but never the same. Great player, probably slots around 20-25 for me. Never won a title, despite playing with Jerry West most of his career. That’s a knock, no matter how you look at it.
Wish we had more footage of him.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I still can’t believe this post actually was real
TripItUp
Footballguy
Most don't understand that most NBA greats rate Kobe higher than Lebron, it is what it is.
Recency bias is a helluva drug.
the moops
Footballguy
Absolutely false
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I completely understand that. Those greats also love Carmelo Anthony.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Dude was a pure scorer, much better offensively than Lebron.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
And he played zero D, and won nothing.
Edit to add: he also didn’t make the players around him better
TripItUp
Footballguy
I agree. I have Lebron rated higher than Carmelo because of those things.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
How much higher? 10 slots? 50? 100?
It really doesn’t matter. The point is the same people who rank Kobe high typically love Carmelo.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
LBJ 27.2 PPG > KB 24.99 PPG
LBJ 7.51 RBG > KB 5.2 RBG
LBJ 7.33 APG > KB 4.68 APG
LBJ 1.54 SPG > KB 1.44 SPG
LBJ 0.76 BPG > KB 0.5 BPG
LBJ 27.22 PER > KB 22.90 PER
LBJ 116 ORTG > KB 110 ORTG
LBJ 104 DRTG > KB 105 DRTG
LBJ 8.76 BPM 8.76 > KB 4.55 BPM
LBJ .59 True Shooting% > KB .55 TS%
LBJ .545 Effective FG% > KB .482 EFG%
LBJ WS/48 .2264 > KB .170
LBJ VORP 146.57 > KB 80.15
LBJ 4 MVP > KB 1 MVP
KB 5 rings > LBJ 4 rings
LBJ 10 Finals > KB 7 Finals
LBJ 13 First Team All NBA > KB 11 First Team All NBA
KB 9X All Defense > LBJ 5X All Defense
LBJ 8.815 MVP Award Shares > KB 4.202 MVP Award Shares
I could keep going, but LeBron trumps Kobe in almost every category there is. And I don't even like James.
LBJ 7.51 RBG > KB 5.2 RBG
LBJ 7.33 APG > KB 4.68 APG
LBJ 1.54 SPG > KB 1.44 SPG
LBJ 0.76 BPG > KB 0.5 BPG
LBJ 27.22 PER > KB 22.90 PER
LBJ 116 ORTG > KB 110 ORTG
LBJ 104 DRTG > KB 105 DRTG
LBJ 8.76 BPM 8.76 > KB 4.55 BPM
LBJ .59 True Shooting% > KB .55 TS%
LBJ .545 Effective FG% > KB .482 EFG%
LBJ WS/48 .2264 > KB .170
LBJ VORP 146.57 > KB 80.15
LBJ 4 MVP > KB 1 MVP
KB 5 rings > LBJ 4 rings
LBJ 10 Finals > KB 7 Finals
LBJ 13 First Team All NBA > KB 11 First Team All NBA
KB 9X All Defense > LBJ 5X All Defense
LBJ 8.815 MVP Award Shares > KB 4.202 MVP Award Shares
I could keep going, but LeBron trumps Kobe in almost every category there is. And I don't even like James.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Just imagine if LeBron got to play with Shaq for 8 seasons? The Lakers lost to the Jazz in '97 & '98, the Spurs in '99, won it in '00, '01 & '02 and then lost to the Spurs in '03 and Pistons in '04.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?
the moops
Footballguy
you are tripping man. This whole thread has turned into you being the absolute wrongest Lebron James age 37 season. 30.3 ppg, .619 TS%
Carmelo Anthony's best season - age 28 season, 28.7 ppg, .560 TS%
Lebron's career numbers 27.2 ppg, .588 TS%
Melo's career numbers 22.5 ppg, .543 TS%
Carmelo averaged over 4 assists one year. Lebron averaged under 6 assists one time.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Oh big deal. You can prove anything with facts.
