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Whoa...Tampa's Mike Williams... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter vasco75
- Start date
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
PIT has stopped the run, that's for sure.
But Roddy White had 13/111 against them in Week 1.
I'm not saying that MW is Roddy, and Freeman isn't Ryan. I'm just saying that Tampa won't be running the ball at all. They will have to let Freeman throw it a bunch to stay in the game. I think #8 is high, but I am starting Mike Williams at flex this week.
But Roddy White had 13/111 against them in Week 1.
I'm not saying that MW is Roddy, and Freeman isn't Ryan. I'm just saying that Tampa won't be running the ball at all. They will have to let Freeman throw it a bunch to stay in the game. I think #8 is high, but I am starting Mike Williams at flex this week.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
The Bucs won't be able to run on Pittsburgh's defense. They really shouldn't even try. FBGs is expecting Freeman to put it in the air, alot, and Mike is Tampa's WR1. This isn't that hard guys. Do we really need a thread every time someone disagrees with a ranking?
vasco75
Footballguy
Not necessarily disagreeing with the ranking, but since there is no elaboration in the rankings, just looking to get some feedback from the Shark Pool as to some justification.Easy now...
Pots
Footballguy
Crazy rankings w/o reasons why need to be discussed. Your reason about Tampa not trying to run the ball isn't a good reason because Pitt double-team their #1 passing option if they know they're passing every play.
cubbie5150
Footballguy
and to many teams, Winslow is probably still the #1 receiving option...as he should be viewed, IMO (& I own & love Tampa Mike)....
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Simple deductive reasoning can lead you to the analysis behind the ranking. You or I may not necessarily agree with it, but I didn't think it was too difficult to get to the bottom of what FBGs was thinking, and therefore I don't feel that it's necessary to start a new thread questioning the ranking. Especially when the rankings are pay content.If you check out the rankings and one stands out at you as odd then think about it for a minute. If you want to start a thread to discuss that player's prospect for the week why not say "Mike Williams vs. Steelers, good start?" Then give your opinion on how you think he'll perform. That may generate better discussion than revealing a player's ranking and asking for justification.I'm not trying to be a board moderator, but there just seem to be threads like this constantly that don't seem to generate anything useful.Crazy rankings w/o reasons why need to be discussed. Your reason about Tampa not trying to run the ball isn't a good reason because Pitt double-team their #1 passing option if they know they're passing every play.
Do we really need shark pool message board police!! If you dont wanna see a thread dont F'ing READ IT!!! Im tired of hearing these high and mighty people complain about whats in a thread, people can post what they want!! If you dont like a thread dont read it how you gonna complain about a thread when you in the thread reading the posts
bulger2holt
Footballguy
+1. It gets old, huh ?
shnikies
Footballguy
Agreed. As for the ranking. Look for the Bucs to use the short passing game in lieu of the running game. Mike could catch 2-3 passes on screens alone. Caddy is obviously a brutal start this week.
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
Actually, the discussion was fine until you chimed in.Simple deductive reasoning can lead you to the analysis behind the ranking. You or I may not necessarily agree with it, but I didn't think it was too difficult to get to the bottom of what FBGs was thinking, and therefore I don't feel that it's necessary to start a new thread questioning the ranking. Especially when the rankings are pay content.Crazy rankings w/o reasons why need to be discussed.
Your reason about Tampa not trying to run the ball isn't a good reason because Pitt double-team their #1 passing option if they know they're passing every play.
If you check out the rankings and one stands out at you as odd then think about it for a minute. If you want to start a thread to discuss that player's prospect for the week why not say "Mike Williams vs. Steelers, good start?" Then give your opinion on how you think he'll perform. That may generate better discussion than revealing a player's ranking and asking for justification.
I'm not trying to be a board moderator, but there just seem to be threads like this constantly that don't seem to generate anything useful.
az_prof
Footballguy
The OP asks a legitimate question and I think hearing from staff about their thinking behind the ranking would be useful to hear too. Whether it should be in Shark Pool or not is something Joe needs to decide, not the sharks. If FBG feels like pay content is being revealed they could have a separate forum for paid customers to discuss things like this with staff. In fact, as a paying customer I would support that.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Look at the projected numbers for the Top 25 WRs this week. Starting around #8 going down to #25 there is less than a 2 point difference between all of them.
#8 is at 6/76 with .5 chance of a TD.
#21: 6/60 and .4 TD
Not a lot of difference between #8 and #21.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that these rankings have to be SO conservative, almost to the point of being useless, or else there would be a LOT more shouting about why a certain guy is ranked above another guy.
I definitely trust my gut instinct over any rankings. If you choose to start FBG's #8 guy over FBG's #21 guy just because it appears as though there is a wide gap between them in the rankings, look a bit closer. There's probably only 2 or 3 points difference in the projections. And it's all just an educated guess anyway.
#8 is at 6/76 with .5 chance of a TD.
#21: 6/60 and .4 TD
Not a lot of difference between #8 and #21.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that these rankings have to be SO conservative, almost to the point of being useless, or else there would be a LOT more shouting about why a certain guy is ranked above another guy.
I definitely trust my gut instinct over any rankings. If you choose to start FBG's #8 guy over FBG's #21 guy just because it appears as though there is a wide gap between them in the rankings, look a bit closer. There's probably only 2 or 3 points difference in the projections. And it's all just an educated guess anyway.
the spanker
Footballguy
I'm tired of guys judging the context of posts and destroying the thread. If you don't like it and have nothing positive or constructive to say then #### and move on.HurryUpSundays
Footballguy
What's equally annoying is the crying about threads that people start...
"another this thread, another that thread, another jahvid best thread"? ... Yea dude, and you took the time to open it, read it AND reply to it.
If its not to your liking - move on.
Its real simple.
"another this thread, another that thread, another jahvid best thread"? ... Yea dude, and you took the time to open it, read it AND reply to it.
If its not to your liking - move on.
Its real simple.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I'm trusting the ranking and starting him (vs Royal, Knox, others).
FG had advanced Tampa Mike last week too, considering he's 'just a rook WR on the Bucs' and that delivered I'd say.
Do it again.
These guys happen; Joe Horn is one I can think of, when someone becomes 'the guy' in a passing offense that's a great thing to latch onto in FF.
One other thought re: the matchup: PIT's starting Leftwich. Sometimes what a team does on offense is assisted by what they do on defense and special teams. TB may get quite a few opportunities on offense, maybe 1-2 shots at good starting field position, their run defense apparently is somewhat improved, and they will be playing for 3-0 at home vs a marquee team and they will be geared up. I can see it.
FG had advanced Tampa Mike last week too, considering he's 'just a rook WR on the Bucs' and that delivered I'd say.
Do it again.
These guys happen; Joe Horn is one I can think of, when someone becomes 'the guy' in a passing offense that's a great thing to latch onto in FF.
One other thought re: the matchup: PIT's starting Leftwich. Sometimes what a team does on offense is assisted by what they do on defense and special teams. TB may get quite a few opportunities on offense, maybe 1-2 shots at good starting field position, their run defense apparently is somewhat improved, and they will be playing for 3-0 at home vs a marquee team and they will be geared up. I can see it.
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
I guess I'm way out of my league here. Carry on.
Pots
Footballguy
patrickmcgroin
Footballguy
GregR_2
Footballguy
I agree it was good discussion until it got hijacked. When I set my initial lineup for the week, I considered whether the game would go that way but didn't have time to look into it very deeply, and went with the thought that Pitt will shut down Tampa Bay more completely. Seeing discussion as to whether that is really going to be the case is going to help as I come to a final decision.Actually, the discussion was fine until you chimed in.Simple deductive reasoning can lead you to the analysis behind the ranking. You or I may not necessarily agree with it, but I didn't think it was too difficult to get to the bottom of what FBGs was thinking, and therefore I don't feel that it's necessary to start a new thread questioning the ranking. Especially when the rankings are pay content.Crazy rankings w/o reasons why need to be discussed.
Your reason about Tampa not trying to run the ball isn't a good reason because Pitt double-team their #1 passing option if they know they're passing every play.
If you check out the rankings and one stands out at you as odd then think about it for a minute. If you want to start a thread to discuss that player's prospect for the week why not say "Mike Williams vs. Steelers, good start?" Then give your opinion on how you think he'll perform. That may generate better discussion than revealing a player's ranking and asking for justification.
I'm not trying to be a board moderator, but there just seem to be threads like this constantly that don't seem to generate anything useful.
In short, good discussion for the Shark Pool. And discussing the ranking of 1 player isn't something that FBGs has seemed to have a problem with. The opposite, sometimes they get involved in the discussion and sometimes they come to different conclusions than they did originally.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
And several others this week and last.Anyways, Mike Williams has been a trusted target so far for Josh Freeman with 17 total passes headed his way through two games. I personally can't see him as high as 8th this week, but Freeman will likely be putting the ball in the air if the Bucs are going to be successful on offense, and he could put up pretty good numbers if they can connect on a few of those. This guy doesn't play like a rookie.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
Well said, hotboyz.
Mr Two Cents
Footballguy
Mr Two Cents thinks your 2 cents are off base. One ranking of one player, by one person, early in the week, is in no way giving out pay content. If he printed a list of all the RB rankings that is a different story.If you have watched Mike Williams TD receptions on NFL.com you would see that the man has the tools to be a top 10 WR in the NFL. He has the cuts, the speed the strength the attention to the ball and should be a absolute STUD with a 100% healthy QB and more games under his belt. He will be starting on both my Zealot teams this week and barring injury will continue to start. Winslow will take enough pressure off of him to make him a starter.Seriously watch the dudes catches and run after the catch, I would not be surprised to see him out produce Dez in the long run.Simple deductive reasoning can lead you to the analysis behind the ranking. You or I may not necessarily agree with it, but I didn't think it was too difficult to get to the bottom of what FBGs was thinking, and therefore I don't feel that it's necessary to start a new thread questioning the ranking. Especially when the rankings are pay content.If you check out the rankings and one stands out at you as odd then think about it for a minute. If you want to start a thread to discuss that player's prospect for the week why not say "Mike Williams vs. Steelers, good start?" Then give your opinion on how you think he'll perform. That may generate better discussion than revealing a player's ranking and asking for justification.I'm not trying to be a board moderator, but there just seem to be threads like this constantly that don't seem to generate anything useful.Crazy rankings w/o reasons why need to be discussed. Your reason about Tampa not trying to run the ball isn't a good reason because Pitt double-team their #1 passing option if they know they're passing every play.
In YOUR OPINION...really man if it bothers you that bad to have meaningful discussion about a player's value in a certain week then you are probably on the wrong site.Simple deductive reasoning can lead you to the analysis behind the ranking. You or I may not necessarily agree with it, but I didn't think it was too difficult to get to the bottom of what FBGs was thinking, and therefore I don't feel that it's necessary to start a new thread questioning the ranking. Especially when the rankings are pay content.
Your reason about Tampa not trying to run the ball isn't a good reason because Pitt double-team their #1 passing option if they know they're passing every play.
If you check out the rankings and one stands out at you as odd then think about it for a minute. If you want to start a thread to discuss that player's prospect for the week why not say "Mike Williams vs. Steelers, good start?" Then give your opinion on how you think he'll perform. That may generate better discussion than revealing a player's ranking and asking for justification.
I'm not trying to be a board moderator, but there just seem to be threads like this constantly that don't seem to generate anything useful.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
The piling on is getting pretty fierce in here.
I posted my thoughts behind the likely reasoning for Mike Williams' ranking early in the thread along with a question as to why we need a thread every time someone disagrees with a ranking.
I've moved on. You guys probably should too. Talk about Mike Williams.
I posted my thoughts behind the likely reasoning for Mike Williams' ranking early in the thread along with a question as to why we need a thread every time someone disagrees with a ranking.
I've moved on. You guys probably should too. Talk about Mike Williams.
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that's what we all came here for chief, you had another agenda.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I gave an opinion on Mike Williams in my original post in the thread, Ace.
The_Wolfman
Footballguy
Great insight here. People look at the rankings and think "oh wow he's a top 10 wideout this week" when really he is more likely to be in the top 25, which seems about right.
For those who didn't see last game's TD, it was impressive the way he went through defenders after the catch. he wasn't dragging guys, but he looks like he's hard to take down, at least that was my impression. I think I'll start him for the first time.
And this thread is entirely appropriate (well, I guess we don't have to mention the actual ranking as that's paid info). We learn more about the players through this kind of debate. I don't necessarily see it as a gripe to the ranking so much as an invitation to discuss.
And this thread is entirely appropriate (well, I guess we don't have to mention the actual ranking as that's paid info). We learn more about the players through this kind of debate. I don't necessarily see it as a gripe to the ranking so much as an invitation to discuss.
Michael Spurlock, Sammie Stroughter, Maurice Stovall, Arrelious Benn . . . none of those guys are anywhere close to Mike Williams right now.
There is probably more separation between the WR1 and WR2 on Tampa Bay than on any other team outside of Detroit and Atlanta. (Miami is close as well.)
I don't know how much success the Bucs will have throwing to their WRs this week; but whatever success they have should go very largely to Mike Williams.
There is probably more separation between the WR1 and WR2 on Tampa Bay than on any other team outside of Detroit and Atlanta. (Miami is close as well.)
I don't know how much success the Bucs will have throwing to their WRs this week; but whatever success they have should go very largely to Mike Williams.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
To be fair these threads are 10x more productive than "WHO WILL SCORE MORE PTS THIS YEAR. SEDRICK IRVIN OR GUS FREROTTE" when it's an obvious WDIS/WDIPU
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Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
for someone to mass post the rankings or some content is obv OB. But posting snippets and nuggets of it here and there (even full paragraphs etc) is only a great advertising tool for FBG. IE wow if there is that much sweet info on X player, whet else could there be etc. I think people are to afraid to discuss the content here. The discussion of the content illustrates its worth imho.Simple deductive reasoning can lead you to the analysis behind the ranking. You or I may not necessarily agree with it, but I didn't think it was too difficult to get to the bottom of what FBGs was thinking, and therefore I don't feel that it's necessary to start a new thread questioning the ranking. Especially when the rankings are pay content.If you check out the rankings and one stands out at you as odd then think about it for a minute. If you want to start a thread to discuss that player's prospect for the week why not say "Mike Williams vs. Steelers, good start?" Then give your opinion on how you think he'll perform. That may generate better discussion than revealing a player's ranking and asking for justification.I'm not trying to be a board moderator, but there just seem to be threads like this constantly that don't seem to generate anything useful.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
+1I own MW and might not have had the time to fully look into why a WR is a good start vs a great D. Good thread...I agree it was good discussion until it got hijacked. When I set my initial lineup for the week, I considered whether the game would go that way but didn't have time to look into it very deeply, and went with the thought that Pitt will shut down Tampa Bay more completely. Seeing discussion as to whether that is really going to be the case is going to help as I come to a final decision.Actually, the discussion was fine until you chimed in.Simple deductive reasoning can lead you to the analysis behind the ranking. You or I may not necessarily agree with it, but I didn't think it was too difficult to get to the bottom of what FBGs was thinking, and therefore I don't feel that it's necessary to start a new thread questioning the ranking. Especially when the rankings are pay content.
Your reason about Tampa not trying to run the ball isn't a good reason because Pitt double-team their #1 passing option if they know they're passing every play.
If you check out the rankings and one stands out at you as odd then think about it for a minute. If you want to start a thread to discuss that player's prospect for the week why not say "Mike Williams vs. Steelers, good start?" Then give your opinion on how you think he'll perform. That may generate better discussion than revealing a player's ranking and asking for justification.
I'm not trying to be a board moderator, but there just seem to be threads like this constantly that don't seem to generate anything useful.
In short, good discussion for the Shark Pool. And discussing the ranking of 1 player isn't something that FBGs has seemed to have a problem with. The opposite, sometimes they get involved in the discussion and sometimes they come to different conclusions than they did originally.
JMJ
Footballguy
I'm starting Demaryius Thomas over him due to the Pittsburgh match up, just to give fellow MW owners an idea of what another MW owner is doing with him this week.
I know some are touting the fact that TB shouldn't be able to run the ball at all as a good thing, but I totally disagree. Freeman would have trouble against Pitt's defense even if TB had a solid running game working (and I like Freeman), but if he is forced to be one dimensional and throw 80% of the time, most likely from 2nd and 3rd and long type of situations, I just can't see that being a good thing for Mike Williams.
5 receptions and 58 yards for MW this week IMO. But as a fellow MW owner, I'm hoping I'm wrong.
I know some are touting the fact that TB shouldn't be able to run the ball at all as a good thing, but I totally disagree. Freeman would have trouble against Pitt's defense even if TB had a solid running game working (and I like Freeman), but if he is forced to be one dimensional and throw 80% of the time, most likely from 2nd and 3rd and long type of situations, I just can't see that being a good thing for Mike Williams.
5 receptions and 58 yards for MW this week IMO. But as a fellow MW owner, I'm hoping I'm wrong.
Steeler
Footballguy
These should be question marks
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Initially there was no way I was starting Tampa Mike this week since he's going against the Steelers, but then I realized my other options were Portis, Spiller, and Mark Clayton.
Good point by LittlePhatty on the typical point difference between #X and #Y player in Dodds and Blooms projections being much smaller than their actual ranking, although in this case giving him a +/-1 point range based on their projections makes him anywhere from 12th-34th in Bloom's rankings, but #6-17 in Dodds'. Not only is he ranked #8 as previously stated, but that point variation shows even more confidence. Im not sure how much of Roddy's game week 1 plays into how high FBG's have him ranked this week vs PIT, but he's not Roddy White (not to mention Caddy is no Turner so I wouldnt be surprised if PIT focuses more on the pass anyway since Freeman has been very good the 1st 2 weeks). In limited time though, TMW has shown a propensity for deep looks, so PIT may play him like Roddy in that aspect and try to keep TMW in front of the CB the entire game. With that idea, his floor could be fairly high. Were still talking about a guy with only 84 yards through 2 games though.
I think this almost solely comes down to your other options. If you got a proven guy or someone similar to TMW with a great matchup, you go with them this week. I probably wont decide on TMW or Portis until sunday morning, but I'll be following this every day since FBG's are so high on him this week.
Good point by LittlePhatty on the typical point difference between #X and #Y player in Dodds and Blooms projections being much smaller than their actual ranking, although in this case giving him a +/-1 point range based on their projections makes him anywhere from 12th-34th in Bloom's rankings, but #6-17 in Dodds'. Not only is he ranked #8 as previously stated, but that point variation shows even more confidence. Im not sure how much of Roddy's game week 1 plays into how high FBG's have him ranked this week vs PIT, but he's not Roddy White (not to mention Caddy is no Turner so I wouldnt be surprised if PIT focuses more on the pass anyway since Freeman has been very good the 1st 2 weeks). In limited time though, TMW has shown a propensity for deep looks, so PIT may play him like Roddy in that aspect and try to keep TMW in front of the CB the entire game. With that idea, his floor could be fairly high. Were still talking about a guy with only 84 yards through 2 games though.
I think this almost solely comes down to your other options. If you got a proven guy or someone similar to TMW with a great matchup, you go with them this week. I probably wont decide on TMW or Portis until sunday morning, but I'll be following this every day since FBG's are so high on him this week.
cubbie5150
Footballguy
Also, TMW's low recep total isn't due to lack of targets; Freeman has missed him several times that I saw the first 2 weeks. I know that's not a comforting reason to start TMW, just saying he's getting looks.
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
I am debating on Tampa B Mike W or Johnny Knox as my no 3 WR for the rest of the year. Kenny you bring up some good points but I was thinking about this as well. Mike W doesn't have a lot of REC yards because he hasn't had too. Tampa had the Browns and the Panthers. Both struggling offenses. Tampa just played a controlled game and never got too behind in either game I don't think. (You would have to verify that but I'm pretty sure that was the case) I think the fact that he has 2 TDs in 2 games. 17 targets through 2 games with a QB who has a gimpy thumb a little bit SPEAKS VOLUMES. I mean if Tampa gets behind against a good team isn't there a chance Mike W will start piling on the yards? I mean with K Winslow, Caddy, Stoughter, and Spulock that keeps defenses a little bit honest I think. What do you guys think?
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
ITs seems like the FBG staff is pretty high on this kid even in a redraft format. If he has a good matchup he has no 2 upside maybe huh? I mean in a 1/2 pt per reception league I'm in he is outperforming both Megatron and Marshall for me. Its almost tempting to start Mike W over both of them since Megatron and Marshall have done jack squat this season.
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
To stay somewhat on task I think its a little high to have Mike W TB as the no 8 PPR WR when he plays the Steelers.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I mentioned this above, but I think people are failing to take into account the potential for a poor performance by Pittsburgh's offense.Instead of Leftwich it's now Batch? is that bad, better, equally miserable?Tampa's at home, looking for an upset and to establish themselves and their run defense just might be better (as someone else pointed out here in another thread they have bolstered their line).Tampa may get some red zone chances and they may likely not be trying to run it in.I'm starting Demaryius Thomas over him due to the Pittsburgh match up, just to give fellow MW owners an idea of what another MW owner is doing with him this week.I know some are touting the fact that TB shouldn't be able to run the ball at all as a good thing, but I totally disagree. Freeman would have trouble against Pitt's defense even if TB had a solid running game working (and I like Freeman), but if he is forced to be one dimensional and throw 80% of the time, most likely from 2nd and 3rd and long type of situations, I just can't see that being a good thing for Mike Williams.5 receptions and 58 yards for MW this week IMO. But as a fellow MW owner, I'm hoping I'm wrong.
