Why are people listing New England's defense... (1 Viewer)

[Dexter Manley]

I've seen this on many occasions over the last few weeks in threads here in the Shark Pool discussing schedule strength, tough matchups for players, etc. Many people are listing the Patriots defense as a tough matchup for opposing teams and defenses. I'm not seeing it.

Guys, this isn't the same defense that NE had during their glory years. Their secondary is a mess. Lots of unproven young players there.

They lost Ty Warren, the second most important player on their dline (imo) for the year, and remember Seymour was traded last year. They don't have a single stud pass rusher.

My point is, right now this looks like a middle of the road defense, at best. If anything, the Patriots defense should be considered a favorable matchup, not a tough matchup.

The only concerns I would have wrt drafting players facing New England's this season would be the playoffs, weeks 14-16: @Chi, GB, @Buf. And that's only because 1-3 of those games could have horrendous weather which could adversely affect the passing game. It has nothing to do with facing New England's average defense.

In conclusion, when going over a team's or player's schedule, I would treat New England in a similar fashion to a team like Cleveland. Nothing to be scared of except some potential bad weather games during the playoffs.

 

[David Yudkin]

The Pats defense ranked 5th in fewest points allowed last year and 11th in fewest yards allowed. IMO, they got better this year. The only loss was Warren, who was not a major cog anyway (1 sack last year).

I would not evaluate them on the basis of a preseason game against the Rams. I agree that against high octane offenses they may look like a deer in the headlights again (as would many other defenses), but overall I think they are still top third if not better.

 

[big0mar]

They have a lot of speed on that defense now. Definitely improved over the past few years.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Here are there results last year with their opponents offensive scoring rank/offensive yards rank listed in front of each. Every time they played a top 10ish offense last year (5 times) they got lit up for 30+ points except for the 21 they allowed in the first Baltimore game.

Look, I'm not saying they are an easy matchup, but I don't think they should be considered a particularly tough defensive matchup. For example, if someone lists the schedule that Ray Rice, ADP, or Ryan Matthews faces, I don't see them playing NE as a negative or a positive

scoring def rank/total yards rank

28/30 Patriots vs. Bills W 25-24 1-0

17/20 Patriots @ Jets L 16-9 1-1

13/16 Patriots vs. Falcons W 26-10 2-1

9/13 Patriots vs. Ravens W 27-21 3-1

20/15 Patriots @ Broncos L 20-17 (0T) 3-2

16/12 Patriots vs. Titans W 59-0 4-2

30/28 Patriots @ Bucs (in London) W 35-7 5-2

15/17 Patriots vs. Dolphins W 27-17 6-2

7/9 Patriots @ Colts L 35-34 6-3

17/20 Patriots vs. Jets W 31-14 7-3

1/1 Patriots @ Saints L 38-17 7-4

15/17 Patriots @ Dolphins L 22-21 7-5

21/19 Patriots vs. Panthers W 20-10 8-5

28/30 Patriots @ Bills W 17-10 9-5

24/18 Patriots vs. Jaguars W 35-7 10-5

10/4 Patriots @ Texans L 34-27 10-6

9/13 Patriots vs. Ravens L 33-14 10-7

 

[Fantaholic]

Personally, I think they will be a great team to start your WRs against all year. Not sure about their run stopping yet.

 

[captain_amazing]

The Pats defense ranked 5th in fewest points allowed last year and 11th in fewest yards allowed. IMO, they got better this year. The only loss was Warren, who was not a major cog anyway (1 sack last year).

I would not evaluate them on the basis of a preseason game against the Rams. I agree that against high octane offenses they may look like a deer in the headlights again (as would many other defenses), but overall I think they are still top third if not better.

I agree with the first bolded, and disagree with the second, depending on what you mean by "major cog." IMO, I think 2 factors go into why Warren has put up only 3 sacks in the past 2 years:1. The 3-4 scheme, where the OL sets the edge

2. The lack of effective OL pass rusher

With an effective pass rusher, the OL forces the QB to step up in (or out of) the pocket more often. When they are pushed in the pocket, that is where Warren, and the other DE, get there chance to make plays. What Warren does well is eating up blocks and run-defense. However, I think Wright (or Warren? can't remember who plays what side) will do a fine job filling in. So i think he definitely is important to the defense, but is replaceable with the adequate depth the Pats have at DL. So maybe he is or isn't a major cog.

Anyway, I definitely agree the Pats have gotten better on D, specifically in the secondary and ILB. But, I think they haven't gotten better where they needed to most at OL. So, we will see what happens. My guess is that the defense ends up somewhere, stats-wise, near where they ended up last year, and will lack consistency, similar to last year.

Oh, and the second paragraph isn't meant to lecture, as I am sure everyone knows what the OL does in the 3-4 scheme, I just wanted to explain my reasoning.

 

[HenryWinklerRulez]

Because theres a bunch of Pats homers who have biased opinions. This is why you toss our anything you hear about them because they are allways overrated. Same reason why some places would consider Papelbon an elite closer when in fact he sucks.

 

[HellToupee]

Brandon Spikes is a thumper & will be laying the lumber setting the tone for the D

 

[DawnBTVS]

I think people are listing their defense as a tough matchup more for the points allowed aspect (as opposed to say yards allowed). Yeah, they got lit up by good offenses (no surprise there, really) but for the most part, they are a very tough defense to score on year in and year out.

They had 14 games last year where they allowed 21 or fewer points. They had 9 games (over half a season) where they allowed just 14 points or fewer.

I'm really not sure how much "tougher" a D can be on the points allowed side of things. They aren't fancy in the way they do it (like the Jets, Saints, or Ravens who seem to get a lot of pressure and turnovers) but the Patriots are almost incredibly consistent week in and week out.

 

[tombonneau]

They should be a great to start your QBs & WRs against. I think their offense will be much improved from last year and will score more points, leading to teams playing catch up against a young secondary supported by a non-existent four-man pass rush. That's a recipe for nice QB/WR fantasy points.

 

[Getinthemix]

The Pats defense ranked 5th in fewest points allowed last year and 11th in fewest yards allowed. IMO, they got better this year. The only loss was Warren, who was not a major cog anyway (1 sack last year).

I would not evaluate them on the basis of a preseason game against the Rams. I agree that against high octane offenses they may look like a deer in the headlights again (as would many other defenses), but overall I think they are still top third if not better.

Why are you using sacks as a way to measure the value of a 3-4 DE? Aaron Smith is one of the best 3-4 DE's over the last decade and he has 44 sacks over an 11 year career. Warren is an above average run defender and is very good at tying up blockers. Losing him hurts quite a bit, IMO.

 

[The Great Snook]

I am a huge Patriot homer, but even I will admit, I'm not sure they can stop anyone.

 

[tombonneau]

Pats just placed their best corner Leigh Bodden on IR. Bump up your QBs/WRs even more vs. Pats. This secondary is going to get beat like a drum early in the season.

That's two quality veteran defensive starters gone before September. Ouch.

 

[Fantaholic]

Pats just placed their best corner Leigh Bodden on IR. Bump up your QBs/WRs even more vs. Pats. This secondary is going to get beat like a drum early in the season.That's two quality veteran defensive starters gone before September. Ouch.

Wow. Was that today? Honestly, they are going to get lit up on a weekly basis. Just too young...

 

[PatsFanCT]

I think their defense will be much improved from last year. Spikes will have an impact, and all the corners and safeties they've accumulated over the last few years should finally develop into a pretty solid group. As David said, they finished top ten in defense last year and they will only get better with an extra year under their belts.