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Why Did the Dolphins Trade Welker to the Patriots? (1 Viewer)

cstu

Footballguy
The Wallace talk had me thinking about this. In 2007 the Dolphins put a 2nd round RFA tender on Welker. The Pats were considering putting in an offer with a 'poison pill' the Dolphins couldn't match but instead offered the Dolphins a 2nd and 7th pick, which they took.

What I don't understand it why a 7th round pick was enough to convince them to trade him to their rival instead of trying to get a deal done with the Vikings, who were also trying to sign Welker. Just a terrible GM? :confused:

 
They didn't know if he was used differently he would be so good. When BB expressed interest they should have wondered if he was better than they thought.

As for trading him to the NFC they thought he sucked.

 
At the time he was looked at by many as a little white guy who was a solid effort player who would be a factor on special teams but really nothing special...he had killed the Pats so BB loved him yet at the time many were surprised by how much the Pats gave up for him and the contract he was given...you also have to remember how much the passing game has progressed in the past five years or so...it's much easier to see Welker's value in hindsight now that he has been so productive...

 
I didn't realize the Vikings had wanted him. MITB -> please, story time. :popcorn:
Patriots pounced fast to grab WelkerBy Mike Reiss, Globe Staff | October 17, 2007How did it happen?In the wake of Wes Welker's 11-catch, 124-yard, two-touchdown performance against the Cowboys - and with the undefeated Patriots preparing to face the winless Dolphins Sunday - it's an especially timely question.How did the Patriots pry Welker, who is tied for sixth in the NFL with 38 catches, away from a division rival?The story, as most do, has multiple layers.According to agent Vann McElroy, the Patriots and Vikings were the final teams vying for Welker's services. Both wanted Welker, hence their calls to McElroy as free agency began March 2, but they also knew that simply outbidding the other wasn't going to be enough. Because Welker was a restricted free agent, the Dolphins retained the right to match any offer he received.On the second day of free agency, McElroy put together a rich contract offer to gauge the true level of interest. He knew he didn't have to sell Welker to Minnesota because the team's vice president of player personnel, Rick Spielman, was the Dolphins' general manager in 2004 when Miami signed Welker.So there was mild surprise when it was the Patriots who jumped into a lead position, saying they would be willing to meet the asking price unless there was a last-minute change of heart based on an in-person interview. The Patriots knew they liked Welker - he shredded them in a nine-catch performance last year - but wanted to get to know him better and arranged to meet him on the fourth night of free agency."Once he got on the plane, we felt like it was going to take place," McElroy recalled. "New England was the team that stepped up and said, 'You know what? Let's not mess around.' On the other side, I think Minnesota was more in the mind-set of negotiating a little bit, seeing if the situation might move to another position."At the time, the Patriots were in the process of consummating free agent contracts for linebacker Adalius Thomas, running back Sammy Morris, and tight end Kyle Brady, and discussions were underway with receivers Donté Stallworth and Kelley Washington.The Patriots' free agent strategy was to strike quickly; with more teams having salary cap space, they felt that approach was more important than in past years. While some might have considered it a change in philosophy, the Patriots didn't. They felt they'd jumped out early in other years, such as with receiver Derrick Mason in 2005, only to be outbid by the Ravens.From McElroy's view, the first domino fell March 1, the day before free agency began. That's when the Dolphins and general manager Randy Mueller had to decide what level to tender Welker as a restricted free agent.They essentially had three choices: A high tender of $2.35 million would have ensured that the Dolphins received first- and third-round draft choices if another team signed Welker to an offer sheet; for $1.85 million, the Dolphins would receive a single first-round pick; and at $1.35 million, it would be a second-round selection.In what was considered a weak draft, the Dolphins' decision to offer Welker the $1.35 million can now only be considered perplexing. Instead of forking over an additional $500,000 for a player who was coming off a career-high 67-catch season - which would have required suitors to give up a first-round pick - they essentially gave up their leverage."I think the sides had a different view of things," McElroy said, noting that prior attempts to negotiate an extension with the Dolphins had gained little momentum.From Welker's perspective, the interest from the Patriots was flattering. While some teams' views of him reflected the label with which he entered the league - a rookie free agent - he felt different on his visit to New England.By that point, the only question was how to finalize the process. The Patriots were prepared to sign Welker to an offer sheet that included a "poison pill" that would make it difficult for the Dolphins to match. Yet in hopes of avoiding the bad blood that sometimes can accompany offer sheets - the Seahawks and Vikings recently engaged in a nasty back and forth with offensive lineman Steve Hutchinson and receiver Nate Burleson exchanging teams via offer sheets - the Patriots instead called the Dolphins and proposed a trade.The Dolphins were amenable, shipping Welker to the Patriots for second- and seventh-round draft choices. The Dolphins used the second-rounder (60th overall) to select Hawaii center Samson Satele, who has started all six games this season. The seventh-round pick (238th overall) yielded Abraham Wright, a linebacker from Colorado who has been inactive for every game.In New England, Welker signed a five-year contract that included a $5.5 million signing bonus and $3.5 million option bonus. His presence as a slot receiver, playing alongside Randy Moss and Stallworth, has been a key part of the Patriots' offensive explosion. In Sunday's win over the Cowboys, he was on the field for 37 snaps and had 14 passes thrown his way, an extremely high percentage.While Welker, 26, might not have fit so nicely in another team's system, to say it's all worked out for the Patriots is an understatement."Looking back, the bottom line is that they wanted the guy, and from Wes's perspective, the concern was that with these type of deals, something could always break down," McElroy said. "I think both sides knew that. New England did not want to mess around, and we had reached a point where we felt good about the deal and wanted to move forward. And that's how deals usually work out."
 
At the time he was looked at by many as a little white guy who was a solid effort player who would be a factor on special teams but really nothing special...he had killed the Pats so BB loved him yet at the time many were surprised by how much the Pats gave up for him and the contract he was given...you also have to remember how much the passing game has progressed in the past five years or so...it's much easier to see Welker's value in hindsight now that he has been so productive...
People in PPR leagues knew about Welker - he was catching everything in sight the first half of 2006 - with Culpepper and Harrington throwing the ball no less. He was the same player in Miami that he was in NE, all that really happened is that in NE he got the ball a lot more and had a better QB who could get the ball in the end zone.
 
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Didn't their same GM give the Eagles a second-round pick for TJ or AJ something?

Think it should tell you a lot about their management then.

 
At the time he was looked at by many as a little white guy who was a solid effort player who would be a factor on special teams but really nothing special...he had killed the Pats so BB loved him yet at the time many were surprised by how much the Pats gave up for him and the contract he was given...you also have to remember how much the passing game has progressed in the past five years or so...it's much easier to see Welker's value in hindsight now that he has been so productive...
People in PPR leagues knew about Welker - he was catching everything in sight the first half of 2006 - with Culpepper and Harrington throwing the ball no less. He was the same player in Miami that he was in NE, all that really happened is that in NE he got the ball a lot more and had a better QB who could get the ball in the end zone.
Yeah, he had something like 67/680 and 1 TD and while nice for a guy that most guys just randomly picked up on waivers, not many were thinking more than a nice usable guy. He was like 18th or so in PPR with KR/PR yardage league that I did get him back then (and still have). Think this is a case where BB had a specific plan on changing their offense and looked at specific pieces (see Moss also) to get that accomplished. Think more a good move by New England than a bad move by Miami. Lots of people would have a 2nd and 7th for a guy they look at as WR3.
 
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At the time he was looked at by many as a little white guy who was a solid effort player who would be a factor on special teams but really nothing special...he had killed the Pats so BB loved him yet at the time many were surprised by how much the Pats gave up for him and the contract he was given...you also have to remember how much the passing game has progressed in the past five years or so...it's much easier to see Welker's value in hindsight now that he has been so productive...
People in PPR leagues knew about Welker - he was catching everything in sight the first half of 2006 - with Culpepper and Harrington throwing the ball no less. He was the same player in Miami that he was in NE, all that really happened is that in NE he got the ball a lot more and had a better QB who could get the ball in the end zone.
Yeah, he had something like 67/680 and 1 TD and while nice for a guy that most guys just randomly picked up on waivers, not many were thinking more than a nice usable guy. He was like 18th or so in PPR with KR/PR yardage league that I did get him back then (and still have). Think this is a case where BB had a specific plan on changing their offense and looked at specific pieces (see Moss also) to get that accomplished. Think more a good move by New England than a bad move by Miami. Lots of people would have a 2nd and 7th for a guy they look at as WR3.
Two things I didn't see at the time - the Pats trading for Moss and the Pats deciding to become a passing team.
 
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At the time he was looked at by many as a little white guy who was a solid effort player who would be a factor on special teams but really nothing special...he had killed the Pats so BB loved him yet at the time many were surprised by how much the Pats gave up for him and the contract he was given...you also have to remember how much the passing game has progressed in the past five years or so...it's much easier to see Welker's value in hindsight now that he has been so productive...
In '05 and '06 against NE:2-61-0

2-20-0

9-77-0

1-(-)1-0

That is killing the Patriots? Really? On what planet is averaging 3.5-39-0 considered killing someone?

 
'Ghost Rider said:
'Boston said:
At the time he was looked at by many as a little white guy who was a solid effort player who would be a factor on special teams but really nothing special...he had killed the Pats so BB loved him yet at the time many were surprised by how much the Pats gave up for him and the contract he was given...you also have to remember how much the passing game has progressed in the past five years or so...it's much easier to see Welker's value in hindsight now that he has been so productive...
In '05 and '06 against NE:2-61-0

2-20-0

9-77-0

1-(-)1-0

That is killing the Patriots? Really? On what planet is averaging 3.5-39-0 considered killing someone?
2004: "Playing against the New England Patriots on October 10, Welker became the second player in NFL history to return a kickoff and a punt, kick an extra point and a field goal, and make a tackle in a single game. Then, on December 20, in a Monday Night Football game, also against the Patriots, Welker had a 71-yard punt return to set up a touchdown."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Welker

 
'Ghost Rider said:
'Boston said:
At the time he was looked at by many as a little white guy who was a solid effort player who would be a factor on special teams but really nothing special...he had killed the Pats so BB loved him yet at the time many were surprised by how much the Pats gave up for him and the contract he was given...you also have to remember how much the passing game has progressed in the past five years or so...it's much easier to see Welker's value in hindsight now that he has been so productive...
In '05 and '06 against NE:2-61-0

2-20-0

9-77-0

1-(-)1-0

That is killing the Patriots? Really? On what planet is averaging 3.5-39-0 considered killing someone?
2004: "Playing against the New England Patriots on October 10, Welker became the second player in NFL history to return a kickoff and a punt, kick an extra point and a field goal, and make a tackle in a single game. Then, on December 20, in a Monday Night Football game, also against the Patriots, Welker had a 71-yard punt return to set up a touchdown."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Welker
Agreed; Welker definitely passed the eyeball test. It was clear he was a player. Just another example of what has become a very poorly run franchise.
 
I still fail to understand how NE adding a worthless 7th round pickwas enough to turn this deal.
That's the part I don't get. If the Dolphins did nothing then they would have at least force the Pats to give Welker a big 'poison pill' contract to get him. The Pats would still have got him but he would have cost them more than he did. And besides, when the Pats make that offer don't you at least call up the Vikings and ask for their 7th pick so you can keep him out of your division?
 
'Ghost Rider said:
'Boston said:
At the time he was looked at by many as a little white guy who was a solid effort player who would be a factor on special teams but really nothing special...he had killed the Pats so BB loved him yet at the time many were surprised by how much the Pats gave up for him and the contract he was given...you also have to remember how much the passing game has progressed in the past five years or so...it's much easier to see Welker's value in hindsight now that he has been so productive...
In '05 and '06 against NE:2-61-0

2-20-0

9-77-0

1-(-)1-0

That is killing the Patriots? Really? On what planet is averaging 3.5-39-0 considered killing someone?
2004: "Playing against the New England Patriots on October 10, Welker became the second player in NFL history to return a kickoff and a punt, kick an extra point and a field goal, and make a tackle in a single game. Then, on December 20, in a Monday Night Football game, also against the Patriots, Welker had a 71-yard punt return to set up a touchdown."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Welker
Agreed; Welker definitely passed the eyeball test. It was clear he was a player. Just another example of what has become a very poorly run franchise.
:goodposting: Exactly. Even though he didn't have good numbers, he was running wide open a lot of the time. I remember an interview where BB stated they got Welker because they couldn't cover him the entire game. It's a great example of how the stats don't tell the whole story.

 
If the Dolphins did nothing then they would have at least force the Pats to give Welker a big 'poison pill' contract to get him. The Pats would still have got him but he would have cost them more than he did.
No, a poison pill would have cost nothing extra. It is simply a statement that says "If you play more than 3 games in Miami in a season, you receive $30 million." This costs the Pats nothing extra but is impossible for Miami.
And besides, when the Pats make that offer don't you at least call up the Vikings and ask for their 7th pick so you can keep him out of your division?
They needed Welker's consentWelker wanted to go to New England, New England could have signed them with or without the Dolphins' help.Miami could accept the 7th or not, it would have made exactly zero difference in the outcome. So obviously they accepted.
 
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If the Dolphins did nothing then they would have at least force the Pats to give Welker a big 'poison pill' contract to get him. The Pats would still have got him but he would have cost them more than he did.
No, a poison pill would have cost nothing extra. It is simply a statement that says "If you play more than 3 games in Miami in a season, you receive $30 million." This costs the Pats nothing extra but is impossible for Miami.
I think these kinds of deals were already banned when Welker came to NE.
 
'The Comedian said:
'craxie said:
No, a poison pill would have cost nothing extra. It is simply a statement that says "If you play more than 3 games in Miami in a season, you receive $30 million." This costs the Pats nothing extra but is impossible for Miami.
I think these kinds of deals were already banned when Welker came to NE.
Not at allThat loophole didn't close till the new CBA
 
'Ghost Rider said:
'Boston said:
At the time he was looked at by many as a little white guy who was a solid effort player who would be a factor on special teams but really nothing special...he had killed the Pats so BB loved him yet at the time many were surprised by how much the Pats gave up for him and the contract he was given...you also have to remember how much the passing game has progressed in the past five years or so...it's much easier to see Welker's value in hindsight now that he has been so productive...
In '05 and '06 against NE:2-61-0

2-20-0

9-77-0

1-(-)1-0

That is killing the Patriots? Really? On what planet is averaging 3.5-39-0 considered killing someone?
2004: "Playing against the New England Patriots on October 10, Welker became the second player in NFL history to return a kickoff and a punt, kick an extra point and a field goal, and make a tackle in a single game. Then, on December 20, in a Monday Night Football game, also against the Patriots, Welker had a 71-yard punt return to set up a touchdown."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Welker
:own3d: might want to consider "lurking" as an alternative to posting.

 
'craxie said:
If the Dolphins did nothing then they would have at least force the Pats to give Welker a big 'poison pill' contract to get him. The Pats would still have got him but he would have cost them more than he did.
No, a poison pill would have cost nothing extra. It is simply a statement that says "If you play more than 3 games in Miami in a season, you receive $30 million." This costs the Pats nothing extra but is impossible for Miami.
And besides, when the Pats make that offer don't you at least call up the Vikings and ask for their 7th pick so you can keep him out of your division?
They needed Welker's consentWelker wanted to go to New England, New England could have signed them with or without the Dolphins' help.

Miami could accept the 7th or not, it would have made exactly zero difference in the outcome. So obviously they accepted.
I would have rather forced them to use the poison pill option and violate the unspoken rule against it rather than get a worthless 7th round pick.This article about it from that time has this interesting quote:

About the poison pill - I realize Welker has talent but is he really in the same league as Hutchinson and Burleson ?

Posted by: BoltsFan | March 5, 2007 11:42 AM
 
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By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports March 13, 2007An NFL Players Association source confirmed that the union has sent a letter to the NFL Management Council inquiring whether unethical dealings took place leading up to last week's trade between the Miami Dolphins and New England Patriots.On Tuesday, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel reported that the NFLPA was looking into the trade of wide receiver Wes Welker from the Dolphins to the Patriots. Welker was a restricted free agent and visited the Patriots. There had been indications before the visit that Welker would receive an offer sheet from the Patriots for a six-year contract worth approximately $36 million.Had the Dolphins not matched the deal, they would have received a second-round draft pick as compensation for losing Welker. However, before Welker received the offer sheet, the teams worked out a deal in which New England sent a second- and seventh-round pick to the Dolphins for Welker's rights. The Patriots then signed Welker to a five-year, $18 million that includes $9 million in the first year of the deal.The concern is whether Miami was falsely induced to trade Welker, believing there was no chance he could be retained."The rules specifically state that one team can't give another team any additional consideration to discourage a team from matching an offer sheet," the union source said.But what if there was no offer sheet ever given to the player?"We'll have to see about that," the source said.The inquiry could lead to the deal being nullified, although that seems unlikely. In essence, the Dolphins appear to have gotten a little more out of the deal and the Patriots had to pay a lot less.
 
I shouldn't have brought up this thread...now I'm having bad memories of the Chargers keeping Tim Dwight over Welker. :bag:

 
I shouldn't have brought up this thread...now I'm having bad memories of the Chargers keeping Tim Dwight over Welker. :bag:
If it makes you feel any better, CTSU, my brother wasn't happy with his WRs in a dynasty league, and right after the rookie draft, I told him he should pick up Welker, who someone had cut to make room for a draft pick. I said that he was a guy who was always where he was supposed to be, and that Brady would really use him. The part that is most frustrating, is that it is a league that I'm in, too.DOH!Looking at my roster at the end of the previous season (before rookie draft cuts), here are some of the winners on my squad:QB: Peyton Manning, Rivers, Brodie Croyle, Chris SimmsRB: Westbrook, Willie Parker, Brandon Jacobs, Mike Bell, Tatum Bell, Correll Buckholter, Brian Calhoun, Jerome Harrison, Cedrick HoustonWR: Colston, Marshall, Holt, Deion Branch, Mark Clayton, Mike Clayton, Darrell JacksonTE: Vernon Davis, Desmond ClarkQuite possibly the worst non-move I ever made!
 
'Ghost Rider said:
'Boston said:
At the time he was looked at by many as a little white guy who was a solid effort player who would be a factor on special teams but really nothing special...he had killed the Pats so BB loved him yet at the time many were surprised by how much the Pats gave up for him and the contract he was given...you also have to remember how much the passing game has progressed in the past five years or so...it's much easier to see Welker's value in hindsight now that he has been so productive...
In '05 and '06 against NE:2-61-0

2-20-0

9-77-0

1-(-)1-0

That is killing the Patriots? Really? On what planet is averaging 3.5-39-0 considered killing someone?
2004: "Playing against the New England Patriots on October 10, Welker became the second player in NFL history to return a kickoff and a punt, kick an extra point and a field goal, and make a tackle in a single game. Then, on December 20, in a Monday Night Football game, also against the Patriots, Welker had a 71-yard punt return to set up a touchdown."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Welker
:own3d: might want to consider "lurking" as an alternative to posting.
Oh please. That is nice all-around game, but that is not really killing a team. Get a grip.
 

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