Why do people join leagues and give $100-200 to strangers? (1 Viewer)

[brianhatch]

I think it's interesting that no one has come forth with any examples of getting screwed going with non-Leaguesafe leagues other than me. I think there are many that just wouldn't want to publicly admit it. I mean, what's in it for them to do so?

On the other hand, I guess there is a chance that I'm one of an incredibly rare and lucky group of people that got screwed, and 999 out of 1000 leagues are completely legitimate. Tough to know.

Still, I really do think that $50 and under leagues, where a commish has had a profile with history for 3+ years, are probably pretty safe. I would imagine that most con-men are looking for bigger payouts, and $75+ are probably right up their alley.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The only thing I know about League Safe is that the owner, Paul Charchian is a friend of mine. Knowing Paul like I do, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't an excellent company with excellent service. He's a quality guy.

J

 

[Zoomanji]

What are the chances of League Safe getting shut-down and the funds confiscated in the government's next sweep of companies breaking the Internet Gambling Act?

 

[Charch]

What are the chances of League Safe getting shut-down and the funds confiscated in the government's next sweep of companies breaking the Internet Gambling Act?

Fair question. In my mind, there's no chance, Zoomanji. You're referring to the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act,, which specifically excluded fantasy sports. The way that the exclusionary language defines fantasy sports, the carve out applies to all of the leagues that we'd work with.Also bear in mind that the no fantasy operator or player has been the subject of criminal action based on any alleged connection between fantasy and gambling.

Lastly, we're not a game, contest or sweepstakes. So, we don't fall into those buckets either. We don't determine winners, and there is no way to use LeagueSafe to alter any outcomes.

The only thing I know about League Safe is that the owner, Paul Charchian is a friend of mine. Knowing Paul like I do, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't an excellent company with excellent service. He's a quality guy.

J

Thanks, Joe.

 

[Zoomanji]

What are the chances of League Safe getting shut-down and the funds confiscated in the government's next sweep of companies breaking the Internet Gambling Act?

Fair question. In my mind, there's no chance, Zoomanji. You're referring to the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act,, which specifically excluded fantasy sports. The way that the exclusionary language defines fantasy sports, the carve out applies to all of the leagues that we'd work with.Also bear in mind that the no fantasy operator or player has been the subject of criminal action based on any alleged connection between fantasy and gambling.

Lastly, we're not a game, contest or sweepstakes. So, we don't fall into those buckets either. We don't determine winners, and there is no way to use LeagueSafe to alter any outcomes.

The only thing I know about League Safe is that the owner, Paul Charchian is a friend of mine. Knowing Paul like I do, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't an excellent company with excellent service. He's a quality guy.

J

Thanks, Joe.

Thanks Charch! I forgot that Fantasy sports were specifically excluded

 

[brianhatch]

I was particularly encouraged by a "new" commissioner who has lots of experience and working with me and my partner on taking some of our core dynasty auction rules and making a few changes on a new highe stakes league he is starting up. Interesting, he hadn't mentioned leaguesafe before. I asked him if he was planning on using it, and his immediate reply was something close to: "Of course. I can't imagine not using it for my league."

Kind of nice that it's emerging as something of a standard with many new league commissioners. I'm seeing it more and more.

 

[brianhatch]

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...;#entry11678569

Please see this as an example (luckly, I was NOT involved in it...) of why you should only do leaguesafe.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

My name is Dave Gerczak, co-owner of the Fantasy Football Players Championship. I have been a high stakes player since 2002, and founded our contest in 2008. We escrow all prizes and were formed when AFFL disaster part 1 happened. Now, we have had Fantasy Jungle, AFFL part 2 and probably FFOC doing the same thing.

Due to this, some high stakes players and I are organizing the Fantasy Players Association, a non-profit fantasy player advocacy group and web site. The URL will be www.FantasyPlayersAssociation.com. Details to follow and all players will be welcome to join us. Enough is enough with these frauders.

 

[KellysHeroes]

as a commish... I understand the idea of Leaguesafe and the other companies that provide the same service but I won't use them.

Every owner/founder is going to tell you that their site will never crack or fail... I just don't trust it. It wasn't too long ago that people lost 1000s to those sites that folded and spent the money. I think some of those people re-coup the money but it was still a terrible thing.

Another thing that worries me to is that the government is doing a lot of things I don't like and take away a lot of freedoms. Mark my words, they will come knocking and want to see these Sites books/records of what transactions have been going on. And heaven forbid if they freeze the funds of those companies while they investigate, your really screwed then. I much rather keep off the "board" when that happens. I hope it never does... but I think it will one day.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Thanks Charch! I forgot that Fantasy sports were specifically excluded

For now

 

[Gunny]

as a commish... I understand the idea of Leaguesafe and the other companies that provide the same service but I won't use them. Every owner/founder is going to tell you that their site will never crack or fail... I just don't trust it. It wasn't too long ago that people lost 1000s to those sites that folded and spent the money. I think some of those people re-coup the money but it was still a terrible thing. Another thing that worries me to is that the government is doing a lot of things I don't like and take away a lot of freedoms. Mark my words, they will come knocking and want to see these Sites books/records of what transactions have been going on. And heaven forbid if they freeze the funds of those companies while they investigate, your really screwed then. I much rather keep off the "board" when that happens. I hope it never does... but I think it will one day.

Have to say I agree with Kelly's Heroes on pretty much all points. It's funny how everyone complains about the way big government is taking over everything out there and getting bigger all the time, but are more than willing to line a 3rd party's pocketbook while adding in another layer of outside control to their respective fantasy leagues. I'm OK with guys that want to use leaguesafe if they feel they need to, but I've never had any issues with any of the leagues I commish and I've been commishing leagues for almost 20 years now. I'm also planning to stay on my own and I'd like to think that the guys in my leagues will continue to give me their trust. One more thing, I never have and never will charge a fee to anyone to send them a check.

 

[brianhatch]

This is why it's never going to be about commissioners deciding that leaguesafe is safer than themselves. I personally trust no one more than myself. Nor would any ethical, sane commissioner. say different.

Instead, it's going to come down to the players saying enough if enough, and stop mailing in those checks to private individuals.

The guys that have been running a league for 20 years are probably "grandfathered" in trust, at the very least for the existing leagues they run. But there will be a tipping point for the new "Gunny" who doesn't have that 20 year history, when enough players "walk away" upon learning that a commish wants to hold the money themselves, that they start to use a third party.

 

[brianhatch]

I'm excited to see that well over 50% (probably closer to 3/4) of the leagues being offered on Footballguys forums are now Leaguesafe.

Is sure as hell hope anyone reading this things long and especially hard about joining any league that isn't during the 2010 season.

 

[kurtrudder]

I'm excited to see that well over 50% (probably closer to 3/4) of the leagues being offered on Footballguys forums are now Leaguesafe.

Is sure as hell hope anyone reading this things long and especially hard about joining any league that isn't during the 2010 season.

For me there has to be a distinction between any league and leagues run by numerous people who are well known and trusted in the business. For example, I've played in Phenoms leagues for the past couple of years and I had no hesitation in handing over a couple of hundred dollars via Paypal/cheque to them because I can safely say and feel a level of trust there. Some of the guys above like Kelly's Heroes/Gunny, I'm sure if you have been in this game for long enough then you have enough players who know you and have no issue in paying money to you outside of a third party system. That's great but where as 5-10 years ago you were in the majority, over time that is changing.Myself for example though, I've only been a commissioner of leagues for 4-5 years and living in Australia, everything is happening online, 99.9% of people joining our leagues find them online so common sense dictates that I cannot expect people to hand me $250 a season just because I say I'm running a great league and am a top notch commissioner. That reputation can only be built over time based on players seeing first hand or hearing word of mouth that I am legit and run my business well.

Bottom line for me, I think there is room for both sides to exist but as time goes by, with new leagues/new commissioners forming those leagues, a third party holding the funds in escrow becomes more of a necessity. It's not something that commissioners who hold funds themselves should take personally, it's just the nature of what we are working with here.

 

[Coin Flip]

I have said this before....if you like leaguesafe and your leaguemates require it or enjoy it then perfect.....use it. I have commished for 6 years.....Never dropped the ball on one payment. I still think leaguesafe has some risk involved, but I do think the site is genuine....but so am I.....and so are quite a few guys I play with. I send money to commishes I trust, and I will continue to do so.....but I also run $25-$56 leagues mostly. I do have a couple at $100 ish. If my leaguemates requested I used leaguesafe I would consider it, no problem......but why fix what isnt broke IMO.

I can see how playing with a new commish or one with a previous poor record would enforce or recommend leaguesafe.....I hope you are willing to let Phenoms and other honest commishes continue to share their football hobby with others even if their form of payment doesnt match your preference. There are good guys out there.......really there are. I keep zero fees and provide 100% payouts...I spend countless hours on league rules, reminders to leaguemates about drops, trades deadlines, payouts, and even pay for stamps and envelopes myself...I wont even get into the hundreds maybe over a thousand dollars I have spent in graphics to provide a great site to view all year as well......I certainly dont do it for the money......I do it for the competition and relationships I have made.

I would appreciate it if you would understand and accept there are solid guys as commishes out here.

 

[hfs09]

Thank you AFFL!

I'll use FantasySportsvault.com this season.

 

[brianhatch]

I apologize, but I'm not sure I understand the "Thank You AFFL" reference...

 

[hfs09]

Once again the AFFL (American Fantasy Football League) has reneged on payouts. I was just being sarcastic towards the AFFL.

 

[brianhatch]

It's really unfortunate that so much money get's mishandled.

 

[brianhatch]

I will say that the absolute worst problem with Leaguesafe is an inability to "lock" the league and prevent withdrawals when the league fills. For example, in all dynasty leagues, once a team pays and the league fills, you "lock" the funds, randomize the draft order, and players start trading and then drafting.

However, the way it's worded, a player could decide they don't like their draft, and then request a refund from Leaguesafe. Since it's before the fund deadline, I think Leaguesafe would honor the request, which leaves the league a bit high and dry.

In my opinion, Leaguesafe has some significant improvements they can/should make for dynasty leagues, in terms of specifying what funds are for, locking funds, etc. All could be done with their software with the right investments.

I just didn't want anyone to believe I was a paid spokesman for Leaguesafe. I'm not... I see it's flaws, it's just the clear best solution out there in my opinion.

 

[Jello_Biafra]

However, the way it's worded, a player could decide they don't like their draft, and then request a refund from Leaguesafe. Since it's before the fund deadline, I think Leaguesafe would honor the request, which leaves the league a bit high and dry.

I'm no expert on leaguesafe, but I think if you change the deadline for paying fees, no-one can take their money out once that day passes. The default deadline is sometime during the season, which is crazy.

 

[NeverEnough]

However, the way it's worded, a player could decide they don't like their draft, and then request a refund from Leaguesafe. Since it's before the fund deadline, I think Leaguesafe would honor the request, which leaves the league a bit high and dry.

I'm no expert on leaguesafe, but I think if you change the deadline for paying fees, no-one can take their money out once that day passes. The default deadline is sometime during the season, which is crazy.

 

[brianhatch]

However, the way it's worded, a player could decide they don't like their draft, and then request a refund from Leaguesafe. Since it's before the fund deadline, I think Leaguesafe would honor the request, which leaves the league a bit high and dry.

I'm no expert on leaguesafe, but I think if you change the deadline for paying fees, no-one can take their money out once that day passes. The default deadline is sometime during the season, which is crazy.

The problem is doesn't the whole league have to vote if that's the case?

 

[Bonka]

However, the way it's worded, a player could decide they don't like their draft, and then request a refund from Leaguesafe. Since it's before the fund deadline, I think Leaguesafe would honor the request, which leaves the league a bit high and dry.

I'm no expert on leaguesafe, but I think if you change the deadline for paying fees, no-one can take their money out once that day passes. The default deadline is sometime during the season, which is crazy.

The problem is doesn't the whole league have to vote if that's the case?

Doesn't seem like a big deal considering nobody should have a problem moving the deadline up unless they planned on bailing for the reason mentioned.

 

[Jello_Biafra]

However, the way it's worded, a player could decide they don't like their draft, and then request a refund from Leaguesafe. Since it's before the fund deadline, I think Leaguesafe would honor the request, which leaves the league a bit high and dry.

I'm no expert on leaguesafe, but I think if you change the deadline for paying fees, no-one can take their money out once that day passes. The default deadline is sometime during the season, which is crazy.

The problem is doesn't the whole league have to vote if that's the case?

Nope. The commish can change the deadline without a vote.

 

[brianhatch]

However, the way it's worded, a player could decide they don't like their draft, and then request a refund from Leaguesafe. Since it's before the fund deadline, I think Leaguesafe would honor the request, which leaves the league a bit high and dry.

I'm no expert on leaguesafe, but I think if you change the deadline for paying fees, no-one can take their money out once that day passes. The default deadline is sometime during the season, which is crazy.

The problem is doesn't the whole league have to vote if that's the case?

Nope. The commish can change the deadline without a vote.

Good to know. Thanks.It would be nice too if the commissioner could "separate" out the current years dues versus future years dues owed as well... would make the accounting cleaner.

 

[mrip541]

I'd think people don't use Leaguesafe because it really isn't any more safe than not using it. Commish still controls who the money goes to.

 

[brianhatch]

bump

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

I'd think people don't use Leaguesafe because it really isn't any more safe than not using it. Commish still controls who the money goes to.

 

[heydangle]

Thinking of using league safe this year for a local league. If it wasn't a hassle to get people to pay, then I wouldn't consider it.

 

[howatzer]

Classic thread. Nice bump

 

[heydangle]

If I trust myself as a commissioner is it safe to use?

 

[dewaser]

anyone have experience with scammers?

 

[Louche]

I'm excited to see that well over 50% (probably closer to 3/4) of the leagues being offered on Footballguys forums are now Leaguesafe.

Is sure as hell hope anyone reading this things long and especially hard about joining any league that isn't during the 2010 season.

For me there has to be a distinction between any league and leagues run by numerous people who are well known and trusted in the business. For example, I've played in Phenoms leagues for the past couple of years and I had no hesitation in handing over a couple of hundred dollars via Paypal/cheque to them because I can safely say and feel a level of trust there. Some of the guys above like Kelly's Heroes/Gunny, I'm sure if you have been in this game for long enough then you have enough players who know you and have no issue in paying money to you outside of a third party system. That's great but where as 5-10 years ago you were in the majority, over time that is changing.Myself for example though, I've only been a commissioner of leagues for 4-5 years and living in Australia, everything is happening online, 99.9% of people joining our leagues find them online so common sense dictates that I cannot expect people to hand me $250 a season just because I say I'm running a great league and am a top notch commissioner. That reputation can only be built over time based on players seeing first hand or hearing word of mouth that I am legit and run my business well.

Bottom line for me, I think there is room for both sides to exist but as time goes by, with new leagues/new commissioners forming those leagues, a third party holding the funds in escrow becomes more of a necessity. It's not something that commissioners who hold funds themselves should take personally, it's just the nature of what we are working with here.

I have said this before....if you like leaguesafe and your leaguemates require it or enjoy it then perfect.....use it. I have commished for 6 years.....Never dropped the ball on one payment. I still think leaguesafe has some risk involved, but I do think the site is genuine....but so am I.....and so are quite a few guys I play with. I send money to commishes I trust, and I will continue to do so.....but I also run $25-$56 leagues mostly. I do have a couple at $100 ish. If my leaguemates requested I used leaguesafe I would consider it, no problem......but why fix what isnt broke IMO. I can see how playing with a new commish or one with a previous poor record would enforce or recommend leaguesafe.....I hope you are willing to let Phenoms and other honest commishes continue to share their football hobby with others even if their form of payment doesnt match your preference. There are good guys out there.......really there are. I keep zero fees and provide 100% payouts...I spend countless hours on league rules, reminders to leaguemates about drops, trades deadlines, payouts, and even pay for stamps and envelopes myself...I wont even get into the hundreds maybe over a thousand dollars I have spent in graphics to provide a great site to view all year as well......I certainly dont do it for the money......I do it for the competition and relationships I have made. I would appreciate it if you would understand and accept there are solid guys as commishes out here.

Bump.

 

[Kalispellian]

First...I was burned hard several years ago, in my first dynasty league attempt, by a guy who looked legit. Myself and 14 other owners found ourseleves dollar-less at the end of a competitve 1st dynasty season. I swore from there on never to paypal another 'commish' for league fees. I have since focused on performing the commish gig myself instead since I know I can trust myself and, of course, would never rip off a fellow FFer.

Second....use Leaguesafe....it is a secure deal, protects owners and protects the commish. The fee for using credit cards is a non-issue if you think about it fellas. Leaguesafe charges when you use credit cards because THEY are charged a % by the CC company and should definately not have to pay a dime for allowing you to store your dollars there. You are simply paying the CC fees for Leagusafe,,,,and you should. Leaguesafe makes a profit, reasonably, on interest on deposits; or at least that is my logical assumptions. I think it's a beatutiful model personally. Leaguesafe is a perfect nuetral purse and, to my knowledge, is legitimate, has great reviews and has never ripped off anyone. I feel leagusafe should figure out ways to elaborate on their model however....

2cents

 

[Kalispellian]

I'd think people don't use Leaguesafe because it really isn't any more safe than not using it. Commish still controls who the money goes to.

It's true the commish sets the payouts but the settings can be configured so that funds will not be released without majority approval of the league-mates.

 

[Agent575]

I have said this before....if you like leaguesafe and your leaguemates require it or enjoy it then perfect.....use it. I have commished for 6 years.....Never dropped the ball on one payment. I still think leaguesafe has some risk involved, but I do think the site is genuine....but so am I.....and so are quite a few guys I play with. I send money to commishes I trust, and I will continue to do so.....but I also run $25-$56 leagues mostly. I do have a couple at $100 ish. If my leaguemates requested I used leaguesafe I would consider it, no problem......but why fix what isnt broke IMO. I can see how playing with a new commish or one with a previous poor record would enforce or recommend leaguesafe.....I hope you are willing to let Phenoms and other honest commishes continue to share their football hobby with others even if their form of payment doesnt match your preference. There are good guys out there.......really there are. I keep zero fees and provide 100% payouts...I spend countless hours on league rules, reminders to leaguemates about drops, trades deadlines, payouts, and even pay for stamps and envelopes myself...I wont even get into the hundreds maybe over a thousand dollars I have spent in graphics to provide a great site to view all year as well......I certainly dont do it for the money......I do it for the competition and relationships I have made. I would appreciate it if you would understand and accept there are solid guys as commishes out here.

Bump.

Phenoms failure doesn't mean CF is wrong.

It's sad that a few stupid people can ruin something to this level and kudos to Leaguesafe for taking advantage of it but I am glad my owners put their trust in me so that I didn't have to contend with Leaguesafe as it would have been a nuisance for our league. I know CF is as solid as they come too.

It's a shame because now there are a fair amount of folks running around that will not play in a league unless it uses Leaguesafe and I feel that those people could very well be missing out on great leagues because of it. A little homework on who you give your money to could be enough IMO. Phenoms had a good track record I am sure but they were always about making money off running leagues...so the end result is less shocking. Most commissioners run 1 league and do it in the hopes of doing it well so if you can find one that that has a good track record I would reconsider the requirement for Leaguesafe.

But everyone should only do what they are comfortable with. Good luck to ya.