Why do you believe in God? (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Yes we've discussed this before, but I thought I'd try to approach this a different way. Whenever somebody learns I'm an atheist, the inevitable question comes up, "why don't you believe in God?" I think the question should be reversed for theists to answer.

My question is not meant to be a challenge. I am genuinely interested to learn why people believe as they do. Though I may ask follow up questions, I have no intention of denigrating anyone else's beliefs.

 

[johnnycakes]

I am an agnostic. I cannot understand God. But as far as prayer goes... I have a feeling every Jew in the line to the gas chambers was saying a prayer. So anyone who believes in prayer or divine intervention.. please explain why.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Because as a young man I confronted him and put him to the test. He then had the impossible occur for me as his reply.

I'm blessed.

 

[McGarnicle]

For I have seen Selena Gomez.

 

[NCCommish]

For I have seen Selena Gomez.

Original or new and improved?

 

[mon]

Because it answers all my important questions about life and it's purpose.
Because the story of Jesus makes sense to me. If he was not who he claimed to be, the son of God, then he was either a liar or insane. Looking at his life, I just can't see either of those two things being true.
Because I see unconditional love as the ultimate concept. I think the universe was created so that God could show us the ultimate act of love by dying for us, by experiencing the most painful experience we have to go through on this earth.
People ask, how can you believe in a God who allows suffering. I think that's a great question. I think the answer is that God set the world in motion, and suffering is part of life. I don't think suffering is punishment, and I don't think God is a micro manager. I think suffering serves two purposes. One, it teaches us to rely on him, and two, it is the primary purpose of his followers to help eleviate suffering in others and comfort them as best they can. In the scheme of things, believing that time is infinite, the suffering we undergo on this earth is very short. Being with him after we die, we will be comforted for the rest of eternity. "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted."

 

[McGarnicle]

For I have seen Selena Gomez.

Original or new and improved?

I must be out of the loop but I don't like the sound of that. For I have seen Victoria Justice.

 

[DiStefano]

I don't think a blind universe could have come up with a Timschochet. It's too improbable. It has to be a deliberate act of a vengeful God, done in order to torment us.

 

[Premier]

It's a difficult topic. Hard to understand how this all just happened organically I guess.

 

[MC Gas Money]

I dont

 

[Yankee23Fan]

[Kyle]

Really?!?

[\Kyle]

 

[Koya]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

 

[jon_mx]

I don't think a blind universe could have come up with a Timschochet. It's too improbable. It has to be a deliberate act of a vengeful God, done in order to torment us.

He is just one of those unexplainable enemas.

 

[timschochet]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

I don't understand. Why would either God's non-existence, or His existence, be senseless to you? I can make sense of both.

 

[tonydead]

Because it answers all my important questions about life and it's purpose.
Because the story of Jesus makes sense to me. If he was not who he claimed to be, the son of God, then he was either a liar or insane. Looking at his life, I just can't see either of those two things being true.
Because I see unconditional love as the ultimate concept. I think the universe was created so that God could show us the ultimate act of love by dying for us, by experiencing the most painful experience we have to go through on this earth.
People ask, how can you believe in a God who allows suffering. I think that's a great question. I think the answer is that God set the world in motion, and suffering is part of life. I don't think suffering is punishment, and I don't think God is a micro manager. I think suffering serves two purposes. One, it teaches us to rely on him, and two, it is the primary purpose of his followers to help eleviate suffering in others and comfort them as best they can. In the scheme of things, believing that time is infinite, the suffering we undergo on this earth is very short. Being with him after we die, we will be comforted for the rest of eternity. "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted."

Well let's just rip that band-aide right off then.

 

[timschochet]

For I have seen Selena Gomez.

Actually people use this answer all the time: "look how beautiful or awesome this is, or look how wonderful my life is, therefore there must be a God".

 

[timschochet]

Because the story of Jesus makes sense to me. If he was not who he claimed to be, the son of God, then he was either a liar or insane. Looking at his life, I just can't see either of those two things being true.

."

Just want to comment on this one part, which I assume you got from CS Lewis. How would you respond to Richard Dawkins' famous retort, which is that, assuming the Gospel accounts are true (which, BTW, he doesn't) isn't there a third possibility: that Jesus thought He was God, and was wrong?

 

[mon]

Because it answers all my important questions about life and it's purpose.
Because the story of Jesus makes sense to me. If he was not who he claimed to be, the son of God, then he was either a liar or insane. Looking at his life, I just can't see either of those two things being true.
Because I see unconditional love as the ultimate concept. I think the universe was created so that God could show us the ultimate act of love by dying for us, by experiencing the most painful experience we have to go through on this earth.
People ask, how can you believe in a God who allows suffering. I think that's a great question. I think the answer is that God set the world in motion, and suffering is part of life. I don't think suffering is punishment, and I don't think God is a micro manager. I think suffering serves two purposes. One, it teaches us to rely on him, and two, it is the primary purpose of his followers to help eleviate suffering in others and comfort them as best they can. In the scheme of things, believing that time is infinite, the suffering we undergo on this earth is very short. Being with him after we die, we will be comforted for the rest of eternity. "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted."

Well let's just rip that band-aide right off then.

Sorry, didn't mean to diminish suffering in any way, or make light of it. I would never say that to someone who is suffering. We're philosophizing here, so please allow some room for that.

 

[Koya]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

I don't understand. Why would either God's non-existence, or His existence, be senseless to you? I can make sense of both.

From one (pretty logical and straight forward) perspective, God or the gods sorta punts on the real question.

God is the "answer" - why are we here? how did we get here? what happens before we live, after we die? What is some common thread to a universe that has as more stars (or is it galaxies?) than there are grains of sand on the earth's beaches? What is "consciousness"

God provides a convenient answer to all. But it's not , really, an answer. It's the equivalent of asking how did we get here - without any answer that actually works - so you say, I am here because God (or the gods) put me here. Ok... so where did god(s) come from? We are just putting off the question, as if this "God" becomes a catch all.

To me, I look again at two impossibilities. One, that we were here forever, or that we suddenly "formed" as a universe from nothing - again, neither of those options seem possible. Two, that there was something (God) that "created" everything or that things just, well, happened. But remember, if it's the former, you are still really stuck with the latter (God existed forever, or "just happened)

 

[Disc Shark]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

Improbable does not equal impossible. The fact that the chances of any one of us existing are infinitesimally small, does not mean that our existence is directed or created by a higher being.

 

[timschochet]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

I don't understand. Why would either God's non-existence, or His existence, be senseless to you? I can make sense of both.

From one (pretty logical and straight forward) perspective, God or the gods sorta punts on the real question.

God is the "answer" - why are we here? how did we get here? what happens before we live, after we die? What is some common thread to a universe that has as more stars (or is it galaxies?) than there are grains of sand on the earth's beaches? What is "consciousness"

God provides a convenient answer to all. But it's not , really, an answer. It's the equivalent of asking how did we get here - without any answer that actually works - so you say, I am here because God (or the gods) put me here. Ok... so where did god(s) come from? We are just putting off the question, as if this "God" becomes a catch all.

To me, I look again at two impossibilities. One, that we were here forever, or that we suddenly "formed" as a universe from nothing - again, neither of those options seem possible. Two, that there was something (God) that "created" everything or that things just, well, happened. But remember, if it's the former, you are still really stuck with the latter (God existed forever, or "just happened)

When you say "we" were here forever- obviously you don't mean life, since you know that's not so. We're pretty sure we know when and how life began, at least on this planet. If you're referring to the universe prior to life's existence, why couldn't something have existed forever? Not sure why, in the absence of life, there has to be a "beginning". (obviously the Big Bang is a theory of one beginning, though it really isnt, since something always has to come before.

 

[mon]

Because the story of Jesus makes sense to me. If he was not who he claimed to be, the son of God, then he was either a liar or insane. Looking at his life, I just can't see either of those two things being true.

."

Just want to comment on this one part, which I assume you got from CS Lewis. How would you respond to Richard Dawkins' famous retort, which is that, assuming the Gospel accounts are true (which, BTW, he doesn't) isn't there a third possibility: that Jesus thought He was God, and was wrong?

I would think that would be the same as being insane, but maybe not. I have not read Dawkins' book, nor do I get into debates about God's existence. I don't think one can logically convince someone that God exists -- we're talking about two different worlds here, IMO.

I'm reading a book now where the author thinks a fourth way. He's not an atheist, believer, or agnostic. He says he both believes in God and doesn't believe simultaneously. Why I'm an Atheist Who Believes in God He believes the only truth is that which leads to beauty. Very interesting so far.

 

[Slapdash]

Thought-provoking, original content here

 

[Koya]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

Improbable does not equal impossible. The fact that the chances of any one of us existing are infinitesimally small, does not mean that our existence is directed or created by a higher being.

To me, the concept of "existing eternal" is impossible.

As is the concept of "originating from nothingness"

You can see my personal quandry.

 

[Disc Shark]

It's a difficult topic. Hard to understand how this all just happened organically I guess.

It is a difficult thing to comprehend. But the incredible size of the known universe and the incredible time since its inception make it inevitable that life will form on planets such as ours. And perhaps on planets nothing at all like ours. The improbable is not the impossible. In fact, I'd bet that, while rare, the conditions which gave rise to life on our planet are common in the known universe, given the insanely huge number of galaxies, stars and planets that we know about (and we're finding more every day).

 

[Koya]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

I don't understand. Why would either God's non-existence, or His existence, be senseless to you? I can make sense of both.

From one (pretty logical and straight forward) perspective, God or the gods sorta punts on the real question.

God is the "answer" - why are we here? how did we get here? what happens before we live, after we die? What is some common thread to a universe that has as more stars (or is it galaxies?) than there are grains of sand on the earth's beaches? What is "consciousness"

God provides a convenient answer to all. But it's not , really, an answer. It's the equivalent of asking how did we get here - without any answer that actually works - so you say, I am here because God (or the gods) put me here. Ok... so where did god(s) come from? We are just putting off the question, as if this "God" becomes a catch all.

To me, I look again at two impossibilities. One, that we were here forever, or that we suddenly "formed" as a universe from nothing - again, neither of those options seem possible. Two, that there was something (God) that "created" everything or that things just, well, happened. But remember, if it's the former, you are still really stuck with the latter (God existed forever, or "just happened)

When you say "we" were here forever- obviously you don't mean life, since you know that's not so. We're pretty sure we know when and how life began, at least on this planet.If you're referring to the universe prior to life's existence, why couldn't something have existed forever? Not sure why, in the absence of life, there has to be a "beginning". (obviously the Big Bang is a theory of one beginning, though it really isnt, since something always has to come before.

When I say "we" I mean the Universal we. Life here, a molecule a billion light years away, everything. And to say we know how life was brought to this planet tells me nothing in terms of where life actually began - unless, it always has existed.

And why couldn't something have existed forever? It strikes me as impossible, but I know my mind is likely simply too small to comprehend. However, even talking about life, it either existed forever (there has FOREVER been life, not ever created, just, always... there) or was created at some point (ala the Big Bang).

If there was a start point to life, or existence, or matter, or anything, do you think the Big Bang really occurred in a vacuum (no pun intended, honest)? Where did the "elements" (not the scientific term) to form the Big Bang come from?

And again, we are faced with the inevitable answer that they were always there.

And again, that seems ####### impossible.

(this is why I veered from existential philosophy to something simple, like political theory, back in college). Ever answer is an impossibility in my mind.

Not an improbability, but something that defies logic itself. Forever is illogical, how could all this be, forever, and what would that even mean? Except it's even MORE impossible (yeah, imagine that) to think that there was somehow Nothing, and then, from Nothing, Something... hell, Everything.

 

[Slapdash]

Pretty sure we did this recently. At length.

 

[tonydead]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

Improbable does not equal impossible. The fact that the chances of any one of us existing are infinitesimally small, does not mean that our existence is directed or created by a higher being.

To me, the concept of "existing eternal" is impossible.

As is the concept of "originating from nothingness"

You can see my personal quandry.

Not sure why you are so hung up on it. Especially since you've drawn the conclusion for both cases. Get yourself unstuck, call it a draw and move on. Look at the rest of the evidence.

 

[Disc Shark]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

Improbable does not equal impossible. The fact that the chances of any one of us existing are infinitesimally small, does not mean that our existence is directed or created by a higher being.

To me, the concept of "existing eternal" is impossible.

As is the concept of "originating from nothingness"

You can see my personal quandry.

Both are difficult concepts.

 

[Politician Spock]

I believe the testimonies of Jesus Christ are true.

However, after having attended two semesters in semniary, I no longer believe that the Bible is the word of God.

Technically, that is heresy. And so some will say I'm not a Christian. But I do believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, who died for our sins, and the Savior of those who believe in Him.

To me the Bible is just a collection of testimonies of that truth. Just as Billy Graham, pastors and Christians testify today. It's a great collection of such testimony. Well worth reading. And I believe them to be true. But the inerrant, God breathed through the pen of men, word of God? Nope, I don't believe that anymore.

So to answer your question, why do I believe? Because I don't deny the testimonies. The testimonies alone do not produce a logical conclusion. So my belief is a combination of the testimonies, my faith, and seeing how much my life has changed since I believed. The end result is not just a belief, but my own personal testimony.

 

[Otis]

Pretty sure we did this recently. At length.

Yeah this is what I had in mind. Not exact, but awful close.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705888

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I believe in God because someone had to have the genius to make female parts so good, yet females so crazy.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Besides some of the things mentioned, life would just seem sort of pointless to me of this were it.

 

[Slapdash]

Pretty sure we did this recently. At length.

Yeah this is what I had in mind. Not exact, but awful close. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705888

It'd be creepy if he remembered a thread you posted, huh?

 

[tonydead]

Besides some of the things mentioned, life would just seem sort of pointless to me of this were it.

That's sad. I feel the exact opposite.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Link

 

[Otis]

Pretty sure we did this recently. At length.

Yeah this is what I had in mind. Not exact, but awful close. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705888

It'd be creepy if he remembered a thread you posted, huh?

You really need to get over this somehow.

 

[Slapdash]

Pretty sure we did this recently. At length.

Yeah this is what I had in mind. Not exact, but awful close. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=705888

It'd be creepy if he remembered a thread you posted, huh?

You really need to get over this somehow.

Keep on trolling

 

[Koya]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

Improbable does not equal impossible. The fact that the chances of any one of us existing are infinitesimally small, does not mean that our existence is directed or created by a higher being.

To me, the concept of "existing eternal" is impossible.

As is the concept of "originating from nothingness"

You can see my personal quandry.

Not sure why you are so hung up on it. Especially since you've drawn the conclusion for both cases. Get yourself unstuck, call it a draw and move on. Look at the rest of the evidence.

Rest of what (objective) evidence?

What other options are there? We have "existed" forever. Impossible! Or so it seems. We suddenly came from nothing to existence. Impossible! Or so it seems.

Obviously, there's a lot to "or so it seems." I just feel that most of our explanations, often faith based, are cop outs, pushing off the answer to some omniscient Being or Presence that somehow absolves us of the need to actually answer the question. Because the answer then becomes "God" - did we exist forever or come from something? We came from something (God) and God existed forever. Then we have simply transposed our question of existence to that of God.

Does this not make sense? Hardly feel like this is hardly Genealogy of Morals for Chri... im sorry. For goodness sake.

 

[Koya]

I believe in God because someone had to have the genius to make female parts so good, yet females so crazy.

Um, hate to break it to you, but I believe you refer to the Devil. Lucifer's the Party God, bro.

 

[got_nugs]

I believe in God because someone had to have the genius to make female parts so good, yet females so crazy.

Um, hate to break it to you, but I believe you refer to the Devil. Lucifer's the Party God, bro.

I spent ample time with him this weekend in that case.

 

[timschochet]

Koya, do you celebrate Jewish holidays and traditions?

 

[D-Day]

Sometimes you have to look at your life, connect the dots backwards and things make some sence. It could all be coincidence, perhaps not. You are free to believe that a million/billion years ago, we all just got "lucky" that a lightning strike hit a pond of lifeless ooze, and by pure freaking "luck" we all ended up on the FBG's FFA msg board discussing this stuff.

Think of all of the permutations of events that could have happened, but by some string of random events throughout time brings us to NOW. I believe there had to be some guiding hand.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Sometimes you have to look at your life, connect the dots backwards and things make some sence. It could all be coincidence, perhaps not. You are free to believe that a million/billion years ago, we all just got "lucky" that a lightning strike hit a pond of lifeless ooze, and by pure freaking "luck" we all ended up on the FBG's FFA msg board discussing this stuff.

Think of all of the permutations of events that could have happened, but by some string of random events throughout time brings us to NOW. I believe there had to be some guiding hand.

Close enough

 

[tonydead]

Because the alternative is impossible.

Of course, so too, is any concept of god itself.

Ironically, having no existence whatsoever, forever nothing past and forever nothing future, is the ONLY possibility that makes sense. Yet, here we are. The impossible, whichever way you look at it.

Improbable does not equal impossible. The fact that the chances of any one of us existing are infinitesimally small, does not mean that our existence is directed or created by a higher being.

To me, the concept of "existing eternal" is impossible.

As is the concept of "originating from nothingness"

You can see my personal quandry.

Not sure why you are so hung up on it. Especially since you've drawn the conclusion for both cases. Get yourself unstuck, call it a draw and move on. Look at the rest of the evidence.

Rest of what (objective) evidence?

What other options are there? We have "existed" forever. Impossible! Or so it seems. We suddenly came from nothing to existence. Impossible! Or so it seems.

Obviously, there's a lot to "or so it seems." I just feel that most of our explanations, often faith based, are cop outs, pushing off the answer to some omniscient Being or Presence that somehow absolves us of the need to actually answer the question. Because the answer then becomes "God" - did we exist forever or come from something? We came from something (God) and God existed forever. Then we have simply transposed our question of existence to that of God.

Does this not make sense? Hardly feel like this is hardly Genealogy of Morals for Chri... im sorry. For goodness sake.

I'd need more information about your God before I could help you with that.

 

[Koya]

Koya, do you celebrate Jewish holidays and traditions?

Yes.

Long story, but right now it's the god of Tequila (GB a fun wife on a Monday night) and some shot's that's winning out.

Short story: Reform parents, quite traditionalist re: the various holidays. On top of that, Holocaust survivor family (most of whom, sadly, did not make it).

Result: Secular Jew steeped in tradition with a good scoop of guilt - ancient and modern alike. Thought I escaped, but the shiksa I targeted decided to freakin' convert (though my mom loves the "danger" of a mixed gal but still - now - Jewish) and now it's a mess as my mother is Temple President, but we hate the rabbi.

Sorry you asked?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Koya, do you celebrate Jewish holidays and traditions?

He does. I often send him text greetings on those days and he's always appreciative.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

No God. You die ... you turn to dirt. Cold hard facts. HTH. People only use God to help cope with hard truths. GL.

I want to believe that we get to see our loved ones again

 

[timschochet]

Koya, do you celebrate Jewish holidays and traditions?

Yes.

Long story, but right now it's the god of Tequila (GB a fun wife on a Monday night) and some shot's that's winning out.

Short story: Reform parents, quite traditionalist re: the various holidays. On top of that, Holocaust survivor family (most of whom, sadly, did not make it).

Result: Secular Jew steeped in tradition with a good scoop of guilt - ancient and modern alike. Thought I escaped, but the shiksa I targeted decided to freakin' convert (though my mom loves the "danger" of a mixed gal but still - now - Jewish) and now it's a mess as my mother is Temple President, but we hate the rabbi.

Sorry you asked?

Not at all. Thx

 

[tonydead]

Sometimes you have to look at your life, connect the dots backwards and things make some sence. It could all be coincidence, perhaps not. You are free to believe that a million/billion years ago, we all just got "lucky" that a lightning strike hit a pond of lifeless ooze, and by pure freaking "luck" we all ended up on the FBG's FFA msg board discussing this stuff.

Think of all of the permutations of events that could have happened, but by some string of random events throughout time brings us to NOW. I believe there had to be some guiding hand.

If only there were some science that might help explain these phenomenon.