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Why is Ron Paul fronting for the Buy Gold Disaster Guys? (1 Viewer)

Binky The Doormat

Footballguy
Cashing in on creating more fear and fronting for the buy gold, etc. guys that prey on the weak minded. I am not saying that it isn't appropriate to have part of your savings in areas other than stocks/bonds - I am saying I am horrified by Ron Paul pushing this kind of fear mongering.

What is up with this guy? I thought he was an independent thinker, not a psychotic extremist.

 
If Paul is a psychotic extemist then the founders who put gold in the constitution (because they experienced printed money that went worthless) were all psychotic extremists and Greenspan (who now advocates for much higher gold prices) is a psychotic extremist and every central bank that still holds gold (including ours) are psychotic extemists. Printed money never lasts forever it usually only lasts around 40 years tops ... conveniently well within a human lifetime ... this is how the money printers make sure everybody gets shafted by their money printing at least once a lifetime. They print money for free and get to use it first, they print way too much because there is no check (like gold) on their printing, and in the end something happens and the debt holders and savers lose it all and all the money printers who all had great lives early in the money printing years laugh in their retirement. Debt-money is really quite immoral.

 
Paul has been a huge gold advocate for the past 30 years. Nothing new. He never liked getting away from the gold standard and promotes going back.

 
Paul has been a huge gold advocate for the past 30 years. Nothing new. He never liked getting away from the gold standard and promotes going back.
He's just like the end times prognosticators predicting cataclysmic events. Eventually something happens (like 2008) and it's all "SEE, I told you so!"

 
Why don't goldguys get it. It's just a heavy rock. It's only considered valuable because it is. It's not particularly useful, a few rare applications, but mostly used for decoration and jewelry.

Gold is only valuable because we say it is. Much the same as the paper we print money on. Backing dollars with gold is only slightly better than backing them with grains of sand.

I don't understand.

 
Why don't goldguys get it. It's just a heavy rock. It's only considered valuable because it is. It's not particularly useful, a few rare applications, but mostly used for decoration and jewelry.

Gold is only valuable because we say it is. Much the same as the paper we print money on. Backing dollars with gold is only slightly better than backing them with grains of sand.

I don't understand.
It's shiny!

 
What's wrong with buying gold? Countries do it all the time. Seems like a reasonable addition to the portfolio, especially if you are worried about the dollar long term.

 
Why don't goldguys get it. It's just a heavy rock. It's only considered valuable because it is. It's not particularly useful, a few rare applications, but mostly used for decoration and jewelry.

Gold is only valuable because we say it is. Much the same as the paper we print money on. Backing dollars with gold is only slightly better than backing them with grains of sand.

I don't understand.
Read The Case Against the Fed. (FREE PDF)

Then, as the kids like to say, "Report back" and elucidate your newfound understanding.

“Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value – zero.” (Voltaire, 1694-1778)

 
Why don't goldguys get it. It's just a heavy rock. It's only considered valuable because it is. It's not particularly useful, a few rare applications, but mostly used for decoration and jewelry.

Gold is only valuable because we say it is. Much the same as the paper we print money on. Backing dollars with gold is only slightly better than backing them with grains of sand.

I don't understand.
1) "Gold is only valuable because we say it is, much the same as paper we print money on ... backing dollars with gold is only slightly better than backing them with grains of sand". Gold and paper money (actually paper as we have now represents debt) are like day and night. Totally different. Sure each have been called "dollars" but that does not make them the same. Gold favors savers and paper favors debtors. Gold is money because it is natually limited in quantity and requires great effort to produce, and supply grows slowly due to the stinginess of nature. Its value is mostly set by market forces. It has no counterparty risk like paper, it stands on its own, it tends to hold its value forever. Paper debt-money as we have now is money by decree (force) printed at zero cost (if gold could be produced in infinite quantity at zero cost, golds value would be about zero) and value is mostly set by exchange tradition and familiarity bias. The only thing that limits paper supply are promises of some sort, and promises are always broken. Paper tends to constantly lose value, which is why debtors like it. Unfortunately debt grows exponentially (gold supply does not grow exponentially) which is the self destruct mechansm for a debt backed paper system which always requires some sort of tumultuous "reset" every few decades. Sand would make an extremely poor monetary backing because it would require heavy regulation to prevent too much sand from being mined for money.

2) "Its not particularly useful" Actually gold is very useful for industry, just not economic to use is quantity. This is an argument to use gold as money, not against. Gold is very useful, as money. You really don't want money to be consumed.

 
2) "Its not particularly useful" Actually gold is very useful for industry, just not economic to use is quantity. This is an argument to use gold as money, not against. Gold is very useful, as money. You really don't want money to be consumed.
Having a currency that has other demand besides being a currency is actually a huge reason not to use it as a currency.

 
Gold has been used as a store of wealth and has had value for thousands of years without interruption. So there's that.

Gold is "in the US Constitution" only to prevent states from issuing currencies that compete with the federal currency.

 
3C said:
dschuler said:
Paul has been a huge gold advocate for the past 30 years. Nothing new. He never liked getting away from the gold standard and promotes going back.
He's just like the end times prognosticators predicting cataclysmic events. Eventually something happens (like 2008) and it's all "SEE, I told you so!"
I'm sure there are people who do that, but Ron Paul is not among them.

 
3C said:
dschuler said:
Paul has been a huge gold advocate for the past 30 years. Nothing new. He never liked getting away from the gold standard and promotes going back.
He's just like the end times prognosticators predicting cataclysmic events. Eventually something happens (like 2008) and it's all "SEE, I told you so!"
I'm sure there are people who do that, but Ron Paul is not among them.
:lmao:

 
(HULK) said:
Why don't goldguys get it. It's just a heavy rock. It's only considered valuable because it is. It's not particularly useful, a few rare applications, but mostly used for decoration and jewelry.

Gold is only valuable because we say it is. Much the same as the paper we print money on. Backing dollars with gold is only slightly better than backing them with grains of sand.

I don't understand.
I love it when things get real bad and everyone wants to buy some yellow rock. Like it would have any value in a collapse of society. 'Hey I have some yellow rock I want to trade for some guns and food'. '#### off'. Boom, you are dead with a handful of yellow rock.

 
3C said:
dschuler said:
Paul has been a huge gold advocate for the past 30 years. Nothing new. He never liked getting away from the gold standard and promotes going back.
He's just like the end times prognosticators predicting cataclysmic events. Eventually something happens (like 2008) and it's all "SEE, I told you so!"
I'm sure there are people who do that, but Ron Paul is not among them.
But he is predicting cataclysmic events - and using that fear to direct people to a $50 investment advice solution.

I am not arguing about the risk associated with fiat currency (your Voltaire article). After the 2008 market drop and a renewed suspicion of the market overall, I read several books about alternative investments:

- Crash Proof 2.0: How to Profit From the Economic Collapse - Peter D. Schiff/John Downes

- This Time Its Different - Eight Centuries of Financial Folly - Carmen M. Reinhart/Kenneth Rogoff

- Debunking the Hyperinflation of Peter Schiff and the Gold Bugs: A Guide for Investors - Richard Moheban

I found Schiff's recommendations with as much risk as the alternative of sticking to the Modern Portfolio Theory as well as fairly healthy investment fees. I have cut-pasted what appears to be a "paid-for" favorable review of his recommendations below:

How Investors Can Protect Themselves

While there are plenty of people who talk about the problems, very few provide an actionable plan to deal with the crisis, and actually protect your investments from the crash. One of the reasons Peter is so popular is that he not only defines the problem, he gives just such a plan. The good news is that Peter told me the investment advice that he gave in Crash Proof still stands. Here is a very brief summary of that advice:

  • Invest in the stock and bond markets of countries who have their fiscal houses in better order than the US.
  • Get out of the US Dollar by making foreign investments in their local currencies
  • Own Gold
  • Stay Liquid
Peter Schiff On Foreign Bonds

Needless to say Peter does not recommend investing in US Treasuries. He likes the bond’s of countries which he feels are in much better financial shape than the US, such as Canada, Australia, Singapore, and Hong Kong. For the client’s of his brokerage firm Euro Pacific Capital, and his mutual fund company Euro Pacific Funds, they are buying foreign bonds with short durations. This means three things for investors when compared to investing in bonds with longer durations. (you can learn more about duration here)

  • If interest rates go up the value of bonds with short durations will not fall as much.
  • The bond’s mature sooner, so if interest rates go up you will be able to lock in the higher rates sooner as well.
  • It makes the bond investment more like an investment in the country’s currency that allows you to earn some additional yield when compared to a pure currency trade.
Taxes on Foreign Bonds

One very interesting and important point that Peter also brought up, is that when currency gains are realized, they are taxed at your ordinary rate of income. Take an example where you buy a Canadian bond, and between the time you buy and sell the bond, the value of the Canadian dollar increased against the US dollar. In this example the gain on the currency portion of the transaction is taxed as ordinary income, and not as a capital gain as one would expect.

This is one of the reasons why they like floating rate debt, whose interest rate adjusts up and down with inflation. By buying foreign floating rate debt, you do not have to sell and realize the currency gain if interest rates go up in order to benefit from higher rates. This is also one of the reasons why Peter likes foreign stocks. Since stocks never mature, you are never forced to sell and realize the currency gain.

I asked Peter what he thought the time-frame was before the dollar loses substantial value and these investments really start to pay off. Did he think it would be 2 or 3 years or 10 years? He said that he thinks it will be a lot sooner than 2 to 3 years from now.

Peter Schiff On how to fix the government

Unfortunately for the conspiracy theorists out there, Peter does not believe that the Federal Reserve and other behind the scenes players are conspiring to cause hyperinflation. He think’s that its something much more simple. The Ben Bernanke’s of the world think they know so much about the economy and how things should work, but the reality is that they don’t. The problems are coming from ignorance and not from a conspiracy.

In Peter’s view our problems started when we began moving away from our roots as a republic to become a democracy. In order to get things back to where they should be we need to enforce the constitution and limit the role of government. If we are going to loot the minority to pay off the majority we can’t survive. To help sum things up, he pointed me to the following quote from the Alexis de Tocqueville author of the famous book, Democracy in America:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
 
(HULK) said:
Why don't goldguys get it. It's just a heavy rock. It's only considered valuable because it is. It's not particularly useful, a few rare applications, but mostly used for decoration and jewelry.

Gold is only valuable because we say it is. Much the same as the paper we print money on. Backing dollars with gold is only slightly better than backing them with grains of sand.

I don't understand.
Because it's finite, hard to find, harder to pull out of the ground and has been a store of value for 6,000 + years? Meanwhile, the average lifespan of fiat currency is like 27 years?

 
shader said:
What's wrong with buying gold? Countries do it all the time. Seems like a reasonable addition to the portfolio, especially if you are worried about the dollar long term.
It's all about the BitGold, baby.

 
(HULK) said:
Why don't goldguys get it. It's just a heavy rock. It's only considered valuable because it is. It's not particularly useful, a few rare applications, but mostly used for decoration and jewelry.

Gold is only valuable because we say it is. Much the same as the paper we print money on. Backing dollars with gold is only slightly better than backing them with grains of sand.

I don't understand.
I love it when things get real bad and everyone wants to buy some yellow rock. Like it would have any value in a collapse of society. 'Hey I have some yellow rock I want to trade for some guns and food'. '#### off'. Boom, you are dead with a handful of yellow rock.
Right, which is why BitGold is going to revolutionize global currency and permit people to use their gold to buy guns, food or coffee. You trade your fiat currency for gold, which is stored by BitGold. You can then use your gold through their platform for goods and services either with a BitGold debit card or peer to peer exchange, kind of like PayPal, only this is using physical gold as a medium.

 

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