Aaronstory
Footballguy
Exhibit A.
(And I generally think he knows more than most in the land of Punditry, but this is horrible)
(And I generally think he knows more than most in the land of Punditry, but this is horrible)
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Why Pat Kirwan No Longer Has a Job With An NFL Team (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Aaronstory
- Start date
BostonSportsGuy
Footballguy
I want the last 5 minutes of my life back.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Okay...
could you please detail the reasoning behind your conclusion?
could you please detail the reasoning behind your conclusion?
I'll add that I REALLY like Kirwin on the radio but...
I decided one day to call he and Tim Ryan and make a few points about Schaub and Michael Turner being better for their former/current teams as trade bait. That each has too much trade value to justify letting them sit based on the potential for injury alone. Both were/are in walk years and wouldn't stay next season.
He disagreed, laughed off a Schaub trade flat out and sai there is no need way he'd trade Turner for a 2nd Round pick.
Those two issues really made me question his willingness to make the bold move.
I'll say again though, I really like listening to him.
I decided one day to call he and Tim Ryan and make a few points about Schaub and Michael Turner being better for their former/current teams as trade bait. That each has too much trade value to justify letting them sit based on the potential for injury alone. Both were/are in walk years and wouldn't stay next season.
He disagreed, laughed off a Schaub trade flat out and sai there is no need way he'd trade Turner for a 2nd Round pick.
Those two issues really made me question his willingness to make the bold move.
I'll say again though, I really like listening to him.
prymetyme25
Footballguy
Seems like a pretty good strategy to me.
Aaronstory
Footballguy
I don't mind draft articles. I really don't. But when an NFL writer, who used to make draft day moves for an NFL franchise, gives guidelines for teams such as Look for the medical competitive advantage it's no wonder he's no longer pulling the trigger on draft day for an NFL team.(Maybe I'm alone in this, but sometimes I'm just astounded at the people who have actually held front office positions)
Im having trouble seeing what is so egregious about this article.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I like it. Quite a bit actually.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
You and me both. Maybe some of it is basic and generic, but I don't see anything he's saying as wrong.
Aaronstory
Footballguy
bcr8f
Footballguy
Me too.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I'm not necessarily a big Kirwan fan, but I thought this article was decent enough for what it was...
TheGreatest
Footballguy
I see no issue in this at all. I actually agree with him. When you are drafting, you have to try and get an advantage anywhere you can. He mentions M. Bush in his article. If a teams medical staff evaluates him and thinks he will return to pr-injury form, he could be a huge steal in the draft. Deciding where to draft him (Round 3, 4, etc..) is key to getting an advantage on another team. He refers to M. McNeil as an example and rightly so. I think he was a big steal at #50 overall and no way would he get out of the first round if not for the injury conerns.....
Its fine to disagree, just tell us what made you feel strongly that this was "horrible". I think there's actually some good nuggets in there.
E-A-G-L-E-S
Footballguy
thought the article was fine
bcr8f
Footballguy
Exactly. Just because we didn't see what you thought was horrible doesn't meanb we can't learn something valuable.Its fine to disagree, just tell us what made you feel strongly that this was "horrible". I think there's actually some good nuggets in there.
Aaronstory
Footballguy
I guess the blanket statements thrown around as commands got me. Looking out for certain things is fine, but saying "Always let the game tapes trump the workout in shorts" just seems obvious doesn't it? I know lots of teams fall prey to combine numbers, but any evaluator worth their weight knows this.
Guess I'm alone on this one.
Guess I'm alone on this one.
Remember the audience, nfl.com. Its not like he's writing this for NFLFrontOfficePersonnelandScouts.com
The headings are oversimplifications, but that's the nature of headings. Its just a way to organize an article and give short attention span people some hooks to remember.As far as that particular point, it is a somewhat belabored point at this time of year, but I guess its worth repeating as long as teams continue to reach for workout warriors (let's see if Chris Henry goes on the first day this year...)I guess the blanket statements thrown around as commands got me. Looking out for certain things is fine, but saying "Always let the game tapes trump the workout in shorts" just seems obvious doesn't it? I know lots of teams fall prey to combine numbers, but any evaluator worth their weight knows this.Guess I'm alone on this one.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I don't think that the article is THAT bad.
I'm really not sure what he's saying at #2 though. 2. Look for the medical competitive advantage? Is he seriously saying that teams should take more risks on guys with major injuries and assume that their medical staff can somehow perform miracles? The example that he then cites (Marcus McNeill) doesn't even really work since it has nothing to do with the talent of the team's medical staff and everything to do with their opinion on a potential genetic physical problem. I don't think many teams were worried about McNeill's narrow spine in year 1 as much as they were worried about his narrow spine in years 4 and 5 of NFL abuse.
And while I agree with his sentiment for the most part on 7. Trade up or down to get the player you really want and make the deal happen, again his example sucks. He traded up to get Brett Favre and still lost out on him by one spot. So his trade was a total loss. You only trade up or down if you're sure that you can still get the guy you want. That's why I think that everyone bashing the Bills for not trading down last year is wrong. Just because all of the talking heads thought that Whitner would still be there for them it doesn't mean that he would have been. Trading up or down and still not getting the player you have targetted is 100 times worse than staying put and potentially missing out.
I'm really not sure what he's saying at #2 though. 2. Look for the medical competitive advantage? Is he seriously saying that teams should take more risks on guys with major injuries and assume that their medical staff can somehow perform miracles? The example that he then cites (Marcus McNeill) doesn't even really work since it has nothing to do with the talent of the team's medical staff and everything to do with their opinion on a potential genetic physical problem. I don't think many teams were worried about McNeill's narrow spine in year 1 as much as they were worried about his narrow spine in years 4 and 5 of NFL abuse.
And while I agree with his sentiment for the most part on 7. Trade up or down to get the player you really want and make the deal happen, again his example sucks. He traded up to get Brett Favre and still lost out on him by one spot. So his trade was a total loss. You only trade up or down if you're sure that you can still get the guy you want. That's why I think that everyone bashing the Bills for not trading down last year is wrong. Just because all of the talking heads thought that Whitner would still be there for them it doesn't mean that he would have been. Trading up or down and still not getting the player you have targetted is 100 times worse than staying put and potentially missing out.
I thought it was a good article but it appears you are the lone scout in the room with a different opinion. For the sake of completing the exercise, I would like to know what it was you saw that you did not like. Not being mean just curious. He stated the obvious but I think pieces like that are not written with the FBG, offseason board regulars in mind. That was a generic, catch all article written for the casual fan to generate some thought or discussion or, perhaps, educate. The NFL Draft is a HUGE business opportunity for the league...LOTS of potential for revenue growth... and I think you will see more and more high level, quick glance and informative media pieces, articles and interviews each year. I would never put anyone that visits these boards between late January through late July as a casual NFL fan. That article was not written for those people that have all responded in this thread.Exactly. Just because we didn't see what you thought was horrible doesn't meanb we can't learn something valuable.Its fine to disagree, just tell us what made you feel strongly that this was "horrible". I think there's actually some good nuggets in there.
Think about FF about, oh, 12-15 years ago. The only magazine(s) that carried anything FF related were Roto Baseball magazines. I can remember they would have 3-4 pages of outdated material dedicated to FF. Miller Lite had a special FF flier available at certain bars and stores. Someone, though, finally stepped up and started printing their own FF magazine. At that time I remember the articles being fairly generic and "dumbed" down but written with a purpose to inform, as the hobby was pretty far underground and not many people played. In very short order, though, magazines became specialized, as the hobby took off, and quality of tight/specialized/high-end content rose dramaticially. A consumer can now buy magazines written for varying skill levels.
My feeling is that the NFL will be taking the Draft, which is an event, in this same direction. More and more people are catching the draftnik bug and it will be something that is groomed to generate revenue during a very slow period in sports. Sorry but the first pitch of baseball is not that big of a deal unless it was tossed by my son on a Saturday afternoon at a youth field. The NFL has done an AMAZING job keeping their product front and center throughout a calendar year. Think about it.
Superbowl...things just start getting slow...NFL Combine....slowing down but here come Pro Days...getting a little busy and excited...WHAM!...OTA and offseason crown jewel NFL DRAFT...rookie camps...training camps...that covers January-August and, then....the season starts and we are good through Christmas
The NFL is front and center just about every 4 weeks in their offseason. It is Amercia's sport and the league does a great job of keeping things fresh. I see more emphasis, if possible, being placed upon the spectacle that takes place in late April every spring. General content, like Kirwain's article, is one place to start.
.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Not to the teams who fail to do so year after year after year.
No. He's saying that you should listen to your medical staff in case they think a guy tagged as "injury prone" isn't really that much of a risk.
This post is music to my eyes. I can only hope that this all comes to pass.I thought it was a good article but it appears you are the lone scout in the room with a different opinion. For the sake of completing the exercise, I would like to know what it was you saw that you did not like. Not being mean just curious. He stated the obvious but I think pieces like that are not written with the FBG, offseason board regulars in mind. That was a generic, catch all article written for the casual fan to generate some thought or discussion or, perhaps, educate. The NFL Draft is a HUGE business opportunity for the league...LOTS of potential for revenue growth... and I think you will see more and more high level, quick glance and informative media pieces, articles and interviews each year. I would never put anyone that visits these boards between late January through late July as a casual NFL fan. That article was not written for those people that have all responded in this thread.Exactly. Just because we didn't see what you thought was horrible doesn't meanb we can't learn something valuable.Its fine to disagree, just tell us what made you feel strongly that this was "horrible". I think there's actually some good nuggets in there.
Think about FF about, oh, 12-15 years ago. The only magazine(s) that carried anything FF related were Roto Baseball magazines. I can remember they would have 3-4 pages of outdated material dedicated to FF. Miller Lite had a special FF flier available at certain bars and stores. Someone, though, finally stepped up and started printing their own FF magazine. At that time I remember the articles being fairly generic and "dumbed" down but written with a purpose to inform, as the hobby was pretty far underground and not many people played. In very short order, though, magazines became specialized, as the hobby took off, and quality of tight/specialized/high-end content rose dramaticially. A consumer can now buy magazines written for varying skill levels.
My feeling is that the NFL will be taking the Draft, which is an event, in this same direction. More and more people are catching the draftnik bug and it will be something that is groomed to generate revenue during a very slow period in sports. Sorry but the first pitch of baseball is not that big of a deal unless it was tossed by my son on a Saturday afternoon at a youth field. The NFL has done an AMAZING job keeping their product front and center throughout a calendar year. Think about it.
Superbowl...things just start getting slow...NFL Combine....slowing down but here come Pro Days...getting a little busy and excited...WHAM!...OTA and offseason crown jewel NFL DRAFT...rookie camps...training camps...that covers January-August and, then....the season starts and we are good through Christmas
The NFL is front and center just about every 4 weeks in their offseason. It is Amercia's sport and the league does a great job of keeping things fresh. I see more emphasis, if possible, being placed upon the spectacle that takes place in late April every spring. General content, like Kirwain's article, is one place to start.
.
Aaronstory
Footballguy
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
I didn't say it was.
Warpig
Footballguy
Ideally, sure this would be a decent thought process. But things change on draft day.I agree with prymetyme25. Nothing really wrong with what he suggests. But then again...I've always been a "think outside the box" kinda guy.Seems like a pretty good strategy to me.
Your new website would be a recent example. Obviously, there is a current demand and market for polished content. There are people that want something that addresses root cause analysis...the proverbial 5 whys...and they want it from a different type of source. The competitive edge that your site has, opinion, is that it is written by everyman and by no means am I using that in a derogatory fashion. It is used in a complementary fashion. It is a collective group of well spoken/written individuals that at some point made the progressions from casual fan to obssessive compulsive enthusiast...again, that is a compliment. With enough watching; reading; seeing and time you each became qualified, credible and respected enough to deliver an opinion that people would want to see or hear. It is just that your journey and maturation process started and happened within FF.This post is music to my eyes. I can only hope that this all comes to pass.I thought it was a good article but it appears you are the lone scout in the room with a different opinion. For the sake of completing the exercise, I would like to know what it was you saw that you did not like. Not being mean just curious. He stated the obvious but I think pieces like that are not written with the FBG, offseason board regulars in mind. That was a generic, catch all article written for the casual fan to generate some thought or discussion or, perhaps, educate. The NFL Draft is a HUGE business opportunity for the league...LOTS of potential for revenue growth... and I think you will see more and more high level, quick glance and informative media pieces, articles and interviews each year. I would never put anyone that visits these boards between late January through late July as a casual NFL fan. That article was not written for those people that have all responded in this thread.Exactly. Just because we didn't see what you thought was horrible doesn't meanb we can't learn something valuable.Its fine to disagree, just tell us what made you feel strongly that this was "horrible". I think there's actually some good nuggets in there.
Think about FF about, oh, 12-15 years ago. The only magazine(s) that carried anything FF related were Roto Baseball magazines. I can remember they would have 3-4 pages of outdated material dedicated to FF. Miller Lite had a special FF flier available at certain bars and stores. Someone, though, finally stepped up and started printing their own FF magazine. At that time I remember the articles being fairly generic and "dumbed" down but written with a purpose to inform, as the hobby was pretty far underground and not many people played. In very short order, though, magazines became specialized, as the hobby took off, and quality of tight/specialized/high-end content rose dramaticially. A consumer can now buy magazines written for varying skill levels.
My feeling is that the NFL will be taking the Draft, which is an event, in this same direction. More and more people are catching the draftnik bug and it will be something that is groomed to generate revenue during a very slow period in sports. Sorry but the first pitch of baseball is not that big of a deal unless it was tossed by my son on a Saturday afternoon at a youth field. The NFL has done an AMAZING job keeping their product front and center throughout a calendar year. Think about it.
Superbowl...things just start getting slow...NFL Combine....slowing down but here come Pro Days...getting a little busy and excited...WHAM!...OTA and offseason crown jewel NFL DRAFT...rookie camps...training camps...that covers January-August and, then....the season starts and we are good through Christmas
The NFL is front and center just about every 4 weeks in their offseason. It is Amercia's sport and the league does a great job of keeping things fresh. I see more emphasis, if possible, being placed upon the spectacle that takes place in late April every spring. General content, like Kirwain's article, is one place to start.
.
That is something other new or casual fans will react to in very short order. It is a new and different set of eyes on the same old topic. Sort of like Kirwan's lone scout in a sense, as we already know what the usual draftnik suspects are going to say year in and year out.
prymetyme25
Footballguy
this point makes sense but always seems to be my downfall. I always seem to pick the guy who turn out to be injury prone. Freddy T(I'm the ultimate softy for this guy) Deshaun Foster(drafted him his rookie year looked good in the preseason then wham)
I think this gets hard to do sometimes unless the guy can do other things too. J. Mathis
I alway wondered why most teams didn't do this. Glad to know that someone else thinks this too.
I cant even begin to tell you how much I agree with this. Basketball players are some of the most versatil athletes in sports. IMO they just translate too well. From defensive stance to rebounding and posting up it almost make football easy.
switz
Footballguy
Agreed, I actually like a few of his pointsI like it. Quite a bit actually.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
"Modern medicine is ever changing and teams with an aggressive medical staff are providing general managers with a larger pool of talent to draw from"I read that quote differently than you I guess. What does modern medicine and an aggressive medical staff have to do with deciding whether or not a guy is injury prone? That seems to me just to be something where you have to trust your medical staff on a particular injury or condition. Having an aggressive medical staff, to me, means having a medical staff that has more faith in themselves treating certain injuries/conditions than other medical staffs. Maybe I'm just reading him wrong. It's hard to tell since he doesn't really expound upon any one point all that much.
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