Why so down on Moreno? (1 Viewer)

[Black&Gold]

In PPR, I think Moreno is much more valuable. I just turned down an offer of James Stewart for Moreno in dynasty. PPR of course. You are looking at a guy that could catch 50 balls a game.

If Moreno can have an 800 catch season then he would only be behind Finely in value. I wouldn't sell him for James Stewart either, as Stewart has been retired for years. Jon Stewart I would take for him, though, as he is actually good at running the ball, which Moreno does not do well at.

lol. I noticed that.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Jeff Legwold, one of the best beat writers in the entire NFL, believes Broncos see Moreno as situational RB:

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/news.php#3274

 

[Shutout]

Jeff Legwold, one of the best beat writers in the entire NFL, believes Broncos see Moreno as situational RB:

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/news.php#3274

Idle time is the devil's plaything.Hopefully people look past the "grabbing" headline and remember that the Broncos drafted ZERO RBs in this draft. Even teams like Baltimore and Carolina when Fox was the head coach there made a habit of drafting a late RB. But the Broncos didn't. So, when I look at things realistically, and I wonder if I were business and I could draft a young RB in a year where RBs were very deflated in value and I could pretty much picked and choosed when I got one AND paid him a much cheaper price than a veteran FA...what the reason I didn't do that...at all?

So what I'm left with is a HC that has a habit of drafting RBs like changing socks...Didn't. And an organization that has not paid a big time FA contract in a while...passed on a chance to get a young RB at will in exchange for the idea that they will now go out and compete with teams in order to sign a veteran RB to a big deal.

I will accept the statement that legwold is very good at his job at face value. but even with that, I think this one gets filed in the "I'm bored because there is nothing going on in my field right now" category.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Jeff Legwold, one of the best beat writers in the entire NFL, believes Broncos see Moreno as situational RB:

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/news.php#3274

Idle time is the devil's plaything.Hopefully people look past the "grabbing" headline and remember that the Broncos drafted ZERO RBs in this draft. Even teams like Baltimore and Carolina when Fox was the head coach there made a habit of drafting a late RB. But the Broncos didn't. So, when I look at things realistically, and I wonder if I were business and I could draft a young RB in a year where RBs were very deflated in value and I could pretty much picked and choosed when I got one AND paid him a much cheaper price than a veteran FA...what the reason I didn't do that...at all?

So what I'm left with is a HC that has a habit of drafting RBs like changing socks...Didn't. And an organization that has not paid a big time FA contract in a while...passed on a chance to get a young RB at will in exchange for the idea that they will now go out and compete with teams in order to sign a veteran RB to a big deal.

I will accept the statement that legwold is very good at his job at face value. but even with that, I think this one gets filed in the "I'm bored because there is nothing going on in my field right now" category.

So if the Broncos had taken Jay Finley in the 7th round your opinion on Moreno would be different? This team has many holes, and two of the RBs out at dove valley pre-draft (Derrick Locke, Mario Fannin) are available as undrafted free agents. Legwold is usually way ahead of others out there when it comes to the Broncos. Team this up with what I've heard from inside the building about Moreno and you've got a recipe for him getting replaced.

Yes, it's a slow time in the NFL department but that doesn't mean Legwold is writing a 'fluff' piece.

Free agency will show the Broncos true feelings about Moreno. this puzzle is missing pieces, and just because they didn't draft a RB doesn't mean Moreno = fantasy gold.

BTW, the Broncos paid Elvis Dumervil and Champ Bailey big contracts in the last two years.

 

[_lurker_]

So if the Broncos had taken Jay Finley in the 7th round your opinion on Moreno would be different? This team has many holes, and two of the RBs out at dove valley pre-draft (Derrick Locke, Mario Fannin) are available as undrafted free agents.

What's your thoughts on Finley? Seems like there's a good opportunity in CIN?Can you expand on Locke and Fannin?

 

[Shutout]

So if the Broncos had taken Jay Finley in the 7th round your opinion on Moreno would be different? This team has many holes, and two of the RBs out at dove valley pre-draft (Derrick Locke, Mario Fannin) are available as undrafted free agents.

What's your thoughts on Finley? Seems like there's a good opportunity in CIN?Can you expand on Locke and Fannin?

Locke played locally. Surprised he didn't get drafted but with that being said, I don't think he will ever be a found gem for anyone's FF team.

 

[Shutout]

Jeff Legwold, one of the best beat writers in the entire NFL, believes Broncos see Moreno as situational RB:

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/news.php#3274

Idle time is the devil's plaything.Hopefully people look past the "grabbing" headline and remember that the Broncos drafted ZERO RBs in this draft. Even teams like Baltimore and Carolina when Fox was the head coach there made a habit of drafting a late RB. But the Broncos didn't. So, when I look at things realistically, and I wonder if I were business and I could draft a young RB in a year where RBs were very deflated in value and I could pretty much picked and choosed when I got one AND paid him a much cheaper price than a veteran FA...what the reason I didn't do that...at all?

So what I'm left with is a HC that has a habit of drafting RBs like changing socks...Didn't. And an organization that has not paid a big time FA contract in a while...passed on a chance to get a young RB at will in exchange for the idea that they will now go out and compete with teams in order to sign a veteran RB to a big deal.

I will accept the statement that legwold is very good at his job at face value. but even with that, I think this one gets filed in the "I'm bored because there is nothing going on in my field right now" category.

So if the Broncos had taken Jay Finley in the 7th round your opinion on Moreno would be different? This team has many holes, and two of the RBs out at dove valley pre-draft (Derrick Locke, Mario Fannin) are available as undrafted free agents. Legwold is usually way ahead of others out there when it comes to the Broncos. Team this up with what I've heard from inside the building about Moreno and you've got a recipe for him getting replaced.

Yes, it's a slow time in the NFL department but that doesn't mean Legwold is writing a 'fluff' piece.

Free agency will show the Broncos true feelings about Moreno. this puzzle is missing pieces, and just because they didn't draft a RB doesn't mean Moreno = fantasy gold.

BTW, the Broncos paid Elvis Dumervil and Champ Bailey big contracts in the last two years.

No, for a team that had many holes, they can't afford to do like some teams do and draft an otherwise marginal player and use them as a camp body and if it turns out to be something more, then great. But for them, if they TRULY thought they needed a player so good that it relegates Moreno to a 3rd down back, then they had ample chances to take one of the consensus better backs in the draft and they took none. No borderline guys..No "I can see this workign out guys"..none. teams with any sense to them generally don't ignore a position completely if they feel they truly have nothing at the position, especially a team with a HC that is known to run the ball. I never said Moreno was FF gold. I simply said this sounds like a story more based on ideal than fact supported by reason.

And again, I won't challenge Legwold as good at his job but if your'e anyone working in an area where your normal work is dried up and you have nothing to do to make you money, you wouldn't be the first guy that has went reaching or just "fluffing" in order to fill a piece requirement. So, just because he wrote an "I can see this happening" piece and just because you've heard something doesn't mean it fact. If its fact, report it...make money doing work. But don't simply try to lend credibility by saying you were in the building. I stand outside of Rupp arena sometimes and hear things but that doesn't make me privy to Coach Cal's lineup.

With Elvis and Champ, my original statement is in reference to the topic at hand so in order to keep it in context, you need to be talking about FA big time signings in which the Broncos competed with other teams and brought a player in. Not a case where the players were already on the team.

What we are talking about here is the Broncos having a hole at a position, and ignoring that position to fill it with young, cheaper talent, and opting instead to wait to see IF THERE WILL BE Free Agency, and then rolling the dice that they can get one of the few really good veteran talents AND PAY them highly for it. If this were a year where AP was a UFA, sure. If this was a year where there were SEVERAL really known proven RBS and they were young, sure. But otherwise, does this REALLY make sense for a team to look themselves in a mirror and say "This Moreno kid can't do more than 3rd down COP work. We need a STARTING RB. So, let's ignore the draft, take our chances that we can get a RB at all, and then let's bid competitively for his services and pay him a ton."

if nothing else at all, if you really want us to go on somebody;s reported word and thought, then why don't we go on the OFFICIAL word? The one where the organization stated they expect Moreno to be a big part of their team this year and "have a breakout year"?

I'm sure the Broncos will bring in backs..most teams do and nobody jsut has one guy on their team these days. But there's simply no logical supporting evidence that supports the organizations' statements on the subject, supports the financial logic of it, or supports how they approached the draft.

I find it much easier to believe that the beat writer was just working..and had a thought...and said it...and there are a lot of people that have fallen bitter on Moreno and his affect on their FF teams that are willing to run with it.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

I never said Moreno was FF gold. I simply said this sounds like a story more based on ideal than fact supported by reason.

And again, I won't challenge Legwold as good at his job but if your'e anyone working in an area where your normal work is dried up and you have nothing to do to make you money, you wouldn't be the first guy that has went reaching or just "fluffing" in order to fill a piece requirement. So, just because he wrote an "I can see this happening" piece and just because you've heard something doesn't mean it fact. If its fact, report it...make money doing work. But don't simply try to lend credibility by saying you were in the building. I stand outside of Rupp arena sometimes and hear things but that doesn't make me privy to Coach Cal's lineup.

With Elvis and Champ, my original statement is in reference to the topic at hand so in order to keep it in context, you need to be talking about FA big time signings in which the Broncos competed with other teams and brought a player in. Not a case where the players were already on the team.

What we are talking about here is the Broncos having a hole at a position, and ignoring that position to fill it with young, cheaper talent, and opting instead to wait to see IF THERE WILL BE Free Agency, and then rolling the dice that they can get one of the few really good veteran talents AND PAY them highly for it. If this were a year where AP was a UFA, sure. If this was a year where there were SEVERAL really known proven RBS and they were young, sure. But otherwise, does this REALLY make sense for a team to look themselves in a mirror and say "This Moreno kid can't do more than 3rd down COP work. We need a STARTING RB. So, let's ignore the draft, take our chances that we can get a RB at all, and then let's bid competitively for his services and pay him a ton."

if nothing else at all, if you really want us to go on somebody;s reported word and thought, then why don't we go on the OFFICIAL word? The one where the organization stated they expect Moreno to be a big part of their team this year and "have a breakout year"?

I'm sure the Broncos will bring in backs..most teams do and nobody jsut has one guy on their team these days. But there's simply no logical supporting evidence that supports the organizations' statements on the subject, supports the financial logic of it, or supports how they approached the draft.

I find it much easier to believe that the beat writer was just working..and had a thought...and said it...and there are a lot of people that have fallen bitter on Moreno and his affect on their FF teams that are willing to run with it.

to answer the bolded parts...It's not just me being inside the building, going to every day of training camp, watching the media portion of practice every week, or watching games from the press box. I have trusted sources inside that organization and people on the practice field and players have told me about concerns with his work ethic.

They ignored Defensive Line in the draft too...Jeremy Beal in the 7th doesn't count....and that is a much bigger need than RB IMHO. They are waiting for free agency to fill holes there as well.

The OFFICIAL word is going to be positive. What is Elway supposed to say? 'Moreno is a bum.' This is along the lines of them saying Brady Quinn is going to be in the mix for the starting job. That's an official word, do we believe that too?

Knowing Legwold (we both work for the Denver Post) he does not operate this way. This is not some speculative writer who looks to stir things up, locally that's Woody Paige or Mark Kizsla. Legwold has heard several of the same things I've heard. His word on the Broncos is as good as gold.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

So if the Broncos had taken Jay Finley in the 7th round your opinion on Moreno would be different? This team has many holes, and two of the RBs out at dove valley pre-draft (Derrick Locke, Mario Fannin) are available as undrafted free agents.

What's your thoughts on Finley? Seems like there's a good opportunity in CIN?Can you expand on Locke and Fannin?

I like Finley as a part time guy. Instinctive runner, decent speed, nifty and nimble although not overly strong or tough. Durability is a concern after he battled injuries most of his career. Worked well in Baylor's zone/read system. Locke is super fast and could make big plays in space. Screen passes, toss plays, something to get him outside where he can turn on the jets. Saw him at the Senior Bowl and he was absolutely terrible in pass protection drills. That will hurt his chances to be on the field if he can't protect the quarterback. I like his quickness and footwork. Fannin I saw during the week of practice for the NFLPA Game in San Antonio earlier this year. He didn't have a good week of practice and didn't look like the same guy you saw on film at Auburn. He's more than a power/downhill guy, showing good pass protection and receiving ability. Could also help on special teams covering and possibly returning kicks. He was slow to the hole and didn't show proper leg drive at NFLPA game for a back his size. His versatility is something John Fox loves, so I could see the Broncos making a play for him once free agency opens up.

 

[Shutout]

I never said Moreno was FF gold. I simply said this sounds like a story more based on ideal than fact supported by reason.

And again, I won't challenge Legwold as good at his job but if your'e anyone working in an area where your normal work is dried up and you have nothing to do to make you money, you wouldn't be the first guy that has went reaching or just "fluffing" in order to fill a piece requirement. So, just because he wrote an "I can see this happening" piece and just because you've heard something doesn't mean it fact. If its fact, report it...make money doing work. But don't simply try to lend credibility by saying you were in the building. I stand outside of Rupp arena sometimes and hear things but that doesn't make me privy to Coach Cal's lineup.

With Elvis and Champ, my original statement is in reference to the topic at hand so in order to keep it in context, you need to be talking about FA big time signings in which the Broncos competed with other teams and brought a player in. Not a case where the players were already on the team.

What we are talking about here is the Broncos having a hole at a position, and ignoring that position to fill it with young, cheaper talent, and opting instead to wait to see IF THERE WILL BE Free Agency, and then rolling the dice that they can get one of the few really good veteran talents AND PAY them highly for it. If this were a year where AP was a UFA, sure. If this was a year where there were SEVERAL really known proven RBS and they were young, sure. But otherwise, does this REALLY make sense for a team to look themselves in a mirror and say "This Moreno kid can't do more than 3rd down COP work. We need a STARTING RB. So, let's ignore the draft, take our chances that we can get a RB at all, and then let's bid competitively for his services and pay him a ton."

if nothing else at all, if you really want us to go on somebody;s reported word and thought, then why don't we go on the OFFICIAL word? The one where the organization stated they expect Moreno to be a big part of their team this year and "have a breakout year"?

I'm sure the Broncos will bring in backs..most teams do and nobody jsut has one guy on their team these days. But there's simply no logical supporting evidence that supports the organizations' statements on the subject, supports the financial logic of it, or supports how they approached the draft.

I find it much easier to believe that the beat writer was just working..and had a thought...and said it...and there are a lot of people that have fallen bitter on Moreno and his affect on their FF teams that are willing to run with it.

to answer the bolded parts...It's not just me being inside the building, going to every day of training camp, watching the media portion of practice every week, or watching games from the press box. I have trusted sources inside that organization and people on the practice field and players have told me about concerns with his work ethic.

They ignored Defensive Line in the draft too...Jeremy Beal in the 7th doesn't count....and that is a much bigger need than RB IMHO. They are waiting for free agency to fill holes there as well.

The OFFICIAL word is going to be positive. What is Elway supposed to say? 'Moreno is a bum.' This is along the lines of them saying Brady Quinn is going to be in the mix for the starting job. That's an official word, do we believe that too?

Knowing Legwold (we both work for the Denver Post) he does not operate this way. This is not some speculative writer who looks to stir things up, locally that's Woody Paige or Mark Kizsla. Legwold has heard several of the same things I've heard. His word on the Broncos is as good as gold.

AHH..so clearly you have bias in this, and that's understandable. So, I'll leave this topic there and say "let's just see what happens" and if everything you guys are saying plays out then by all means please remind us of it. If it doesn't, you'll never hear me say "told you so" because I'm not posting for that reason.

But I got to say honestly, for all the reasons above, it just makes no sense for an organization to think this way. But hey, who knows? If an organization can jettison Hillis, Cutler, Marshall, Shannahan, who knows...

I did a quick check to see if this is the same Jeff Legwold that used to cover the Titans so now I know who we are talking about. I remember him from those days and I see a lot of bloggers either love him or call him crazy

http://horviltiki.com/broncos-news/i-want-jeff-legwold-censored-or-fired/

To each their own. Fun discussion. Either way, someone should learn something from this one.

 

[I was in the pool]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

On the 6-yard line?

 

[I was in the pool]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

On the 6-yard line?

In the play-by-play by FBG it says Tebow had a 6-yd rush from 6. Would have to go back to NFL rewind to see if it was a designed run or a scramble from a pass set.

 

[Go deep]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

On the 6-yard line?

Yes, why if that confusing? Had it been a one score game they would have prepared better for the run. Since it was a three score game with 30 seconds left I'm sure they just dropped 7 defenders in the end zone....otherwise known as the prevent defense.

 

[I was in the pool]

Basically, the point is. Tebow had a GL package for him when Orton was the main QB. Once Tebow was the starter and playing the entire game, not much in terms of calling his number inside the 10 (or 5) to vulture TDs. I have a feeling as the starter, he wouldn't be a huge TD threat to the RBs other than the occasional QB sneak at the GL if he saw something he liked in the DL alignment like Peyton/Brady do sometimes.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

On the 6-yard line?

Yes, why if that confusing? Had it been a one score game they would have prepared better for the run. Since it was a three score game with 30 seconds left I'm sure they just dropped 7 defenders in the end zone....otherwise known as the prevent defense.

Let's ignore the implications of that particular alignment in this purely hypothetical scenario (it was a two score game) and have a look at the actual play....here

Still so sure?

 

[NateDawg]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

On the 6-yard line?

Yes, why if that confusing? Had it been a one score game they would have prepared better for the run. Since it was a three score game with 30 seconds left I'm sure they just dropped 7 defenders in the end zone....otherwise known as the prevent defense.

Let's ignore the implications of that particular alignment in this purely hypothetical scenario (it was a two score game) and have a look at the actual play....here

Still so sure?

Looks to me like they rushed 4. That would leave 7 in coverage and they all appeared to be in the end zone.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

On the 6-yard line?

Yes, why if that confusing? Had it been a one score game they would have prepared better for the run. Since it was a three score game with 30 seconds left I'm sure they just dropped 7 defenders in the end zone....otherwise known as the prevent defense.

Let's ignore the implications of that particular alignment in this purely hypothetical scenario (it was a two score game) and have a look at the actual play....here

Still so sure?

Looks to me like they rushed 4. That would leave 7 in coverage and they all appeared to be in the end zone.

You really don't know what a prevent defense is....do you?

 

[Go deep]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

On the 6-yard line?

Yes, why if that confusing? Had it been a one score game they would have prepared better for the run. Since it was a three score game with 30 seconds left I'm sure they just dropped 7 defenders in the end zone....otherwise known as the prevent defense.

Let's ignore the implications of that particular alignment in this purely hypothetical scenario (it was a two score game) and have a look at the actual play....here

Still so sure?

I can't access the link from my phone. I'm not sure I need to see out though to assume thst they were in some form of prevent and likely giving them the run.Either way, its doesn't matter much. The point is wether Tebow ran that in our threw it for a td, it didn't hurt the RB because he wasn't getting a carry there no matter what.

Again, only designated QB runs inside the 10 will hurt the Broncos starting RB. That wont happen anymore with the Broncos than it does with most other teams. Unless of course Tebow doesn't end up being the starting QB and just comes in on goaline packages like he did in the begining of the year when Orton was starting.....which is a possibility.

 

[NateDawg]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

On the 6-yard line?

Yes, why if that confusing? Had it been a one score game they would have prepared better for the run. Since it was a three score game with 30 seconds left I'm sure they just dropped 7 defenders in the end zone....otherwise known as the prevent defense.

Let's ignore the implications of that particular alignment in this purely hypothetical scenario (it was a two score game) and have a look at the actual play....here

Still so sure?

Looks to me like they rushed 4. That would leave 7 in coverage and they all appeared to be in the end zone.

You really don't know what a prevent defense is....do you?

Please, tell me what about that play was not a prevent defense? Was it the fact that San Diego played man coverage on all 5 receivers with 2 safeties in the end zone? Was rushing 4 too many to make it a prevent defense? What do I need to learn about the prevent defense. The man coverage actually made it easier for Tebow to run for the TD as the DBs were not looking into the backfield as they would have been in a zone.

 

[Go deep]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

On the 6-yard line?

Yes, why if that confusing? Had it been a one score game they would have prepared better for the run. Since it was a three score game with 30 seconds left I'm sure they just dropped 7 defenders in the end zone....otherwise known as the prevent defense.

Let's ignore the implications of that particular alignment in this purely hypothetical scenario (it was a two score game) and have a look at the actual play....here

Still so sure?

Looks to me like they rushed 4. That would leave 7 in coverage and they all appeared to be in the end zone.

You really don't know what a prevent defense is....do you?

I'm not sure he is the one confused. Youre the one who thought you couldn't play a prevent from the 6. Maybe not the conventional prevent you typically see with safeties dropping 40 yards back from the LOS, but its still a prevent.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Just looked back through the play-by-play records because I wanted to see how Tebow impacted Moreno at the goal line. Yes, Tebow was used quite a bit inside the 5 yard-line when Orton was the starter. Tebow had his own package, etc. However, in the final 3 games when Tebow was the full-time QB, He had just 2 carries inside the 10-yard-line (both from the 6-YL). I should point out that one of the carries was with 30 seconds to go and down by 12 in week 17, so it's not exactly a typical situation (prevent defense conceding the run at that point most likely). Only 3 total RZ carries for the Denver RBs in those 3 games (Buckhalter, Ball) - mostly throwing the ball around at the end of the year.

On the 6-yard line?

Yes, why if that confusing? Had it been a one score game they would have prepared better for the run. Since it was a three score game with 30 seconds left I'm sure they just dropped 7 defenders in the end zone....otherwise known as the prevent defense.

Let's ignore the implications of that particular alignment in this purely hypothetical scenario (it was a two score game) and have a look at the actual play....here

Still so sure?

Looks to me like they rushed 4. That would leave 7 in coverage and they all appeared to be in the end zone.

You really don't know what a prevent defense is....do you?

Please, tell me what about that play was not a prevent defense? Was it the fact that San Diego played man coverage on all 5 receivers with 2 safeties in the end zone? Was rushing 4 too many to make it a prevent defense? What do I need to learn about the prevent defense. The man coverage actually made it easier for Tebow to run for the TD as the DBs were not looking into the backfield as they would have been in a zone.

Since when did 4 pass rushers + press coverage + 2 safeties = prevent defense?

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Is this a topic about Moreno?

 

[Go deep]

Is this a topic about Moreno?

Yes

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Woody Paige has heard the same things I have (work ethic concerns)...but not from players (I've heard it from both current and former) but from coaches who were on the McDaniels staff:

http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_18472436

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Woody Paige has heard the same things I have (work ethic concerns)...but not from players (I've heard it from both current and former) but from coaches who were on the McDaniels staff:

http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_18472436

Wow! That write-up by Paige is pretty telling. (Paige responding to mail)....

What I do know — from someone who worked closely with Josh and is someone I trust to tell me the truth — is that after the draft, McDaniels and the staff believed privately they made a big mistake on Moreno. He was not what they thought. He hasn't been tough, smart, motivated, if that's what you're asking. He has been a bust. I've said it before. He's not a great clubhouse guy. Interpret that how you want, and he's been a wimp on the field.

John Fox is bringing back the zone blocking, and Moreno is not a one-cut back who will go against the grain, or, at least, he hasn't been, and he doesn't get into the secondary fast. They need another running back bad, and Fox, in our three-hour conversation last week, said running back is the priority, along with defensive tackles, in free agency.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Not good. Unless McDaniels and his staff is a really bad frame of reference for this kind of opinion to trust (in the way Al Davis might be a bad person to ask about recommending a player he dislikes - even if the player is Marcus Allen), then this team is definitely seeking a Deangelo Williams with a Jason Snelling chaser over just Snelling and LenDale to back up Moreno.

I have to believe that McDaniels staff is correct here. The one issue that has plagued UGA for the past few years is the amount of guys getting in trouble and kicked off the program. It indicates that Georgia thought they could bring in guys of questionable character and work with them. It hasn't worked out. Moreno's success at Georgia could have given the program confidence that they could handle it.

Looking forward to seeing how this plays out, but unless you have a strong feeling that McDaniels and his staff are total clowns and just want to point fingers then I'd have to back away from Moreno at this point.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Just reminded of something via Twitter.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but McDaniels and company also questioned Peyton Hillis work ethic, too.

Hmmm...

Still backing slowly away from Moreno, but not ready to turn my back and close the door.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Just reminded of something via Twitter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but McDaniels and company also questioned Peyton Hillis work ethic, too. Hmmm...Still backing slowly away from Moreno, but not ready to turn my back and close the door.

Oh Twitter.Different situation completely. One was hand picked by McD (his very first draft pick) the other was a late round FB from the previous regime that was a fan favorite. Yes, Hillis had poor work ethic under McDaniels. There was a 'looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane' sentiment around him here even when Shanny was calling the shots. Hillis had trouble picking up assignments, would fumble too much, and became frustrated when McDaniels would yell at him. Hillis showed up in games (in 08), but McD wouldn't give him the chance because of the way he practiced. Once in McDaniels doghouse he failed to put in much effort. The few carries he got with McD he didn't look like the same player he did at the end of 2008.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Another quick point about Hillis....Shanny can't get credit for his flash at the end of the 08 season. Remember, ####### SEVEN RBs had to go down before Hillis finally got a shot. It was out of desperation that he finally got featured.

Hillis was very good in games here (08) under Shanny but did not practice well.

 

[Patoons]

All this is very interesting with Moreno. I spoke with Brandon Lloyd and he told me this (I can provide link if needed):

...We’re going to need more bodies in the backfield, more effective proven runners to complement Knowshon, and more effective blockers to complement Knowshon’s game...

I originally took this as, and admittedly inferred, he was considering Moreno as the primary back for 2011 and that Denver needed a complementary back in FA with Moreno as the primary back. In particular, I hinged on the comment about them needing "effective blockers for Moreno" (and not generally the "running game"). I was going back and forth with Waldman on it a few weeks back because Cecil had other info to the contrary and clearly has several sources close to the fire. Re-reading it again, it's definitely unclear. Thinking back, I wish I would have probed here, but with my inference and it being before the Moreno/3rd down back was all over the place... I failed to!This is definitely something that's going to be interesting to watch. If you believe in Moreno despite all this news, it's certainly a time to buy low. I'm on the fence at this point, but leaning buy.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

The running back position really is littered with what have you done for me lately. Part of being able to do something lately is being able to stay heathy and prove that your talent can translate to the NFL level. Let's look at some of the RB's that had questions about them before they went onto be good players.

-Larry Johnson KC his first 2 years he was non existent and called out for being a baby etc and in year 3 ripped off over 2000 yards total with 21 total td's

-Cedric Benson was chased out of chicago after not being a hard enough worker etc having 4 sub par years before he put together back to back solid years in cincy

-Mcfadden is never going to be able to be the complete runner and tallied less than 900 yards rushing in his 2 first full seasons before having an awesome year last year

-Hillis was nothing more than a FB and plodder before proving he has the ability to be much better than that

-Mendy was being called a a bust after a rookie year where he was being called a dancer and brittle before proving he was worth the price the steelers paid for him

-Thomas Jones only cracked 1000 yards his 5th season in the NFL after being picked 7th overall. His work ethic never questioned but his talent always being questioned

-Bradshaw was seen as talented but so small and not going to be able to handle a full load and took till year 4 to show he is more than capable of being the total package

Now I know there is the other side where there are plenty of running backs who just fade and never amount to what was expected, but Moreno is still too talented and the potential is still there before writing him off. Especially because he has shown he does have some potential in the NFL.

 

[brtdud7]

In PPR, I think Moreno is much more valuable. I just turned down an offer of James Stewart for Moreno in dynasty. PPR of course. You are looking at a guy that could catch 50 balls a game.

I agree. If you sell low on Moreno, you may be looking through the Rear Window at his owner's team in the title game.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

In PPR, I think Moreno is much more valuable. I just turned down an offer of James Stewart for Moreno in dynasty. PPR of course. You are looking at a guy that could catch 50 balls a game.

I agree. If you sell low on Moreno, you may be looking through the Rear Window at his owner's team in the title game.

I see what you did there.As to B&G - you're going to regret that one (and I'm one that still beleives in Moreno).