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Will Clemens Displace Pennington as the starter? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LHUCKS
- Start date
a_rackowski
Footballguy
No - He will displace Joey Harrington.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
He's on the trading block?Announcers have stated there's a lot of buzz about Clemens in the NY area...sounds too popular to trade.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
If displace means "become the starter for a reason other than injury", then it's a clear no at least until November. If the Jets were something like 2-7 and Pennington was playing badly -- a pretty unlikely assumption -- then I could see Clemens taking over at the end of the season.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Hmmm...if Pennington starts the season like he has the preseason I'm not so sure the hook will be quicker than that.
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videoguy505
Footballguy
Why do you hate America?
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
Yes. I agree with you -- he's already better. Pennington's arm couldn't afford to get any weaker, and it looks like it did.
This offense is going to need Kellen Clemens this year.
This offense is going to need Kellen Clemens this year.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Some solid outside of the box thinking here.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
He completed 70% of his 10 passes so far in the pre-season. The coaches love Pennington, for obvious reasons -- he's a coach's dream from a work ethic, intelligence and discipline standpoint. He's a team leader and someone the other players look up to. I don't think two terrible passes in pre-season has any relevance in the big picture. Do you suddenly think that one of the most accurate and smartest QBs in the league suddenly forgot how to play football? Both his passes were bad decisions, which is pretty much the only thing you can can't knock Pennington on -- he makes better decisions than nearly every QB in the NFL.Everyone knows his flaws, but the important thing is that he looks totally healthy and his arm seems fine. He hasn't taken any big hits, but looks more muscular than the Pennington of old, which should add to his durability. I wouldn't spend much time in the pre-season watching established veterans, but that's just me.
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
You have to stay ahead of the curve by anticipating. From what I saw last year, and from what I've read early this year, all signs are pointing to Pennington hamstringing this offense going forward. With a tougher schedule, a possible further loss of arm strength, and a year's worth of tape on the Jets' neutered playcalling to suit Pennington's pop-gun arm, this team is going to have to turn to Clemens. I think he'll be ready when they do...Some solid outside of the box thinking here.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
The Jets had one of the toughest schedules in the league last season. While this year's schedule looks tough, pre-season SOS is meaningless at predicting how tough an actual NFL schedule will be (at least for predicting opponent's wins/losses; I think pre-season SOS is meaningful for fantasy purposes, just not NFL purposes). What does a possible further loss of arm strength mean? I haven't heard anything to suggest that Pennington's arm strength has decreased. Have you?You have to stay ahead of the curve by anticipating. From what I saw last year, and from what I've read early this year, all signs are pointing to Pennington hamstringing this offense going forward. With a tougher schedule, a possible further loss of arm strength, and a year's worth of tape on the Jets' neutered playcalling to suit Pennington's pop-gun arm, this team is going to have to turn to Clemens. I think he'll be ready when they do...Some solid outside of the box thinking here.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Pennington is the type of QB that doesn't win you games in the playoffs IMHO. His smart/accurate style may win you regular season games and get you into the playoffs but Clemens has the type of ability that can take you to the promise land.Clemens is the future of this franchise IMHO. The only question in my mind is how soon he'll get the call.
Having watched a lot of Clemens in college I can say that I believed he would be a star in the NFL...I still believe that.
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Captain Hook
Footballguy
NO, aside from injury he will NOT replace PenningtonI am surprised that YOU would post something like this on two pre-season games - Clemens must be from a Pac10 school.Oregon or Oregon St?
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Oregon...and I'm not basing this poll on two preseason games.
Reaper
Footballguy
Maybe but, not this year.......
It has to be good to at least be learning and working behind Chad.
Maybe next year is a camp battle?
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I think Clemens might be a future star in the NFL, too. He looks pretty good so far.As for the playoffs comment, is this an unfounded, unsupported conclusion? Pennington has two wins in the playoffs for his career. Only Brady, Manning, McNair, Roethlisberger, Delhomme, Favre, McNabb and Hasselbeck have more. Considering the ugly performances of Peyton Manning in '06 in the playoffs, Roethlisberger in '05 in the Super Bowl, and Brad Johnson ('02) and Tom Brady ('01) winning Super Bowls, it seems a QB like Pennington is a better bet to win in the playoffs than most. An accurate, intelligent and turnover-free QB is what wins in the playoffs and the regular season, alike.
a_rackowski
Footballguy
Pennington is going nowhere! They just gave him authority to call his own plays. Clemens has shined for sure, but like someone above said - Pennington is a coaches dream.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
No, it's an opinion based on his inability to make plays. Clemens IMHO has more ability to make plays.
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Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
Just like with baseball pitchers, QBs' arms naturally lose strength with age. Their arms aren't quite as strong in their 30s as they were in their mid-to-late 20s. Throw in the compound effects of major injuries, and you have a definite concern. I haven't seen the Jets play this pre-season, but what I've read from others' comments leads me to believe that Pennington's arm may be even weaker this year than last. Again, the Jets playcalling was hampered last season by Pennington's weak arm, though admittedly they were effective at striking with a (relatively) deep ball at key moments after dinking and dunking for most of the game. Will that work again this year? I wouldn't bank on it. They had more than their fair share of luck last season, and they're likely to receive the flipside of that luck this year.I think Lhucks is right. Pennington no longer has the arm to win games for you in the playoffs against superior coaching and defenses. If he is continuing to lose arm strength, they're going to have to replace him well before playoffs become a factor.The Jets had one of the toughest schedules in the league last season. While this year's schedule looks tough, pre-season SOS is meaningless at predicting how tough an actual NFL schedule will be (at least for predicting opponent's wins/losses; I think pre-season SOS is meaningful for fantasy purposes, just not NFL purposes). What does a possible further loss of arm strength mean? I haven't heard anything to suggest that Pennington's arm strength has decreased. Have you?You have to stay ahead of the curve by anticipating. From what I saw last year, and from what I've read early this year, all signs are pointing to Pennington hamstringing this offense going forward. With a tougher schedule, a possible further loss of arm strength, and a year's worth of tape on the Jets' neutered playcalling to suit Pennington's pop-gun arm, this team is going to have to turn to Clemens. I think he'll be ready when they do...Some solid outside of the box thinking here.
Jeff Tefertiller
Footballguy
I loved the Buck quote tonight "Chad Pennington is 9 for 10 with 2 TDs tonight ..."
DeCleater
Footballguy
DeCleater
Footballguy
Did you hear Aikman!When Kendall hiked the ball over the QB's head he said " It's hard to get it up when your looking between your legs".
LHUCKS
Footballguy
There's hope for you afterall.
DeCleater
Footballguy
You do realize your head coach is a Hawk.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
They both suck,and will continue to suck froma FF point of view.
cstu
Footballguy
I disagree, the Jets have two good receivers and two good receiving RB's. The team should be able to pass, whether it's Pennington or Clemens. I don't expect Clemens to take over this year, but I think there's a good chance of it if Pennington doesn't get some wins early.
brednbuddah
Footballguy
Clemens is Mangini's QB, so I see him taking his time with Clemens and only putting him in there when the time is absolutely perfect (unless Pennington gets hurt will he go in sooner - obviously). He's not going to jeopardize his selection of Clemens.
The team will probably take a step backward this year due to their difficult schedule, but only if they completely collapse before the BYE (2 -3 wins) will you see Clemens at home against Pittsburgh in week 11. That's probably the earliest you would see Clemens out there.
next year the QB spot will be wide open.
The team will probably take a step backward this year due to their difficult schedule, but only if they completely collapse before the BYE (2 -3 wins) will you see Clemens at home against Pittsburgh in week 11. That's probably the earliest you would see Clemens out there.
next year the QB spot will be wide open.
I agree. If Thomas Jones misses time, look out below. Clemens will be in earlier than many think.In my dnyasty league, I'm in need of QB depth and was offered Pennington fairly cheap, but I just couldn't pull the trigger, even though half my team retired (Plummer, Bledsoe, and Tiki). I think I'm gonna roll with Leftwich and/or Garcia as my QB1; the rest of my team is solid, and I like Leftwich to finally put it all together. Anyway, I think Pennington is done. Those two picks tonight showed just how weak his arm really is. Short throws with nothing on them--kinda the way I throw.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
I believe Pennington starts as long as the Jets are in contention...unless he plays really bad. However, if they fall out of contention, I don't see any reason why Clemens wouldn't play later in the year.
Either way, I think Clemens gets a legit chance to start in 2008. I am very high on him long term.
Either way, I think Clemens gets a legit chance to start in 2008. I am very high on him long term.
valhallan
Footballguy
That's what I'm thinking too. In another situation, I might not be very high on Clemens but I think Pennington is the type of veteran that will help a young gun get up to speed.
pghrob
Footballguy
Regarding Pennington's arm strength, I recall Mangini being on Mike and Mike in the Morning on ESPN radio last week. Greenie was gushing as usual, but he posed the question to Mangini of how Pennington's offseason was considering it was the first one in a long time that did not involve rehabbing.
Mangini responded that Pennington spent alot of time at the Jets off season facility working out and doing normal off season conditioning and came to camp much stronger. He also said Pennington enjoyed the opportunity to study the offense more. There was no indication whatsoever from Mangini that Pennington was anything short of the offense's leader and backbone.
The loss of arm strength is unsubstantiated and from all other indications, it would appear Pennington is on solid ground with the coaching staff.
Mangini responded that Pennington spent alot of time at the Jets off season facility working out and doing normal off season conditioning and came to camp much stronger. He also said Pennington enjoyed the opportunity to study the offense more. There was no indication whatsoever from Mangini that Pennington was anything short of the offense's leader and backbone.
The loss of arm strength is unsubstantiated and from all other indications, it would appear Pennington is on solid ground with the coaching staff.
Reaper
Footballguy
Reading the Jets Homer boards, seems like there's a major groundswelling for Pennington to be replaced and soon from lots of posters I respect.... And that as good as he is, he could only take us so far and if it did come down to the playoffs and contending, a top defense would eventually just shut him down while crowding the line.
DB's are giving him no respect at all and just jumping his lanes.
This years' schedule is BRUTAL.....
It might just be set up for Chad to fail and Clemens to be the guy off the bench later in the year....
They start off with The Patriots and Ravens.... It will be real tough for Chad to do much Vs those defenses. Miami as well is a real tough D matvhup.
1 Sep 09 NE @ NYJ
2 Sep 16 NYJ @ BAL
3 Sep 23 MIA @ NYJ
4 Sep 30 NYJ @ BUF
5 Oct 07 NYJ @ NYG
6 Oct 14 PHI @ NYJ
7 Oct 21 NYJ @ CIN
8 Oct 28 BUF @ NYJ
9 Nov 04 WAS @ NYJ
10 Bye
11 Nov 18 PIT @ NYJ
12 Nov 22 NYJ @ DAL
13 Dec 02 NYJ @ MIA
14 Dec 09 CLE @ NYJ
15 Dec 16 NYJ @ NE
16 Dec 23 NYJ @ TEN
17 Dec 30 KC @ NYJ
I think a lot of Jet fans like myself wanted to see the OL and DL built up the past two years - They did get Mangold and Ferguson but, that was pretty much filling holes they created - There were a ton of OL prospects this year we drooled over.
DB's are giving him no respect at all and just jumping his lanes.
This years' schedule is BRUTAL.....
It might just be set up for Chad to fail and Clemens to be the guy off the bench later in the year....
They start off with The Patriots and Ravens.... It will be real tough for Chad to do much Vs those defenses. Miami as well is a real tough D matvhup.
1 Sep 09 NE @ NYJ
2 Sep 16 NYJ @ BAL
3 Sep 23 MIA @ NYJ
4 Sep 30 NYJ @ BUF
5 Oct 07 NYJ @ NYG
6 Oct 14 PHI @ NYJ
7 Oct 21 NYJ @ CIN
8 Oct 28 BUF @ NYJ
9 Nov 04 WAS @ NYJ
10 Bye
11 Nov 18 PIT @ NYJ
12 Nov 22 NYJ @ DAL
13 Dec 02 NYJ @ MIA
14 Dec 09 CLE @ NYJ
15 Dec 16 NYJ @ NE
16 Dec 23 NYJ @ TEN
17 Dec 30 KC @ NYJ
I think a lot of Jet fans like myself wanted to see the OL and DL built up the past two years - They did get Mangold and Ferguson but, that was pretty much filling holes they created - There were a ton of OL prospects this year we drooled over.
We asked Dave Hutchinson (newark Star ledger) this back in June...
maybe this has changed with the preseason performances, but Hutchinson was pretty unequivocal in his answer.
doughboydeluxe
Footballguy
Weren't we having this same conversation last year regarding Bledsoe vs. Romo? If Bledsoe can get replaced mid-season, why can't Pennington? Granted, there are some differences in situations. Mobility was one of the main reasons Bledsoe was replaced, and Bledsoe is much older than Pennington. Plus Romo played the entire first preseason game last year vs. Seattle, a sign that Parcells wanted to get Romo more playing time because he thought he might need him during the regular season. But when it comes down to it, if a QB just isn't making plays, why should we just assume that he will be allowed to be the starter for the whole regular season?
Chad has a career 65% completion percentage. If he is completin his passes like he always has, it's gonna be hard for the coaches to bench him. Injury is Clemens best shot at the starting job.
It seems dumb to put the losses at Chad's feet when he makes the plays he's called on to make. It's not his fault if others don't. Clemens wouldn't be able to fix that.
It seems dumb to put the losses at Chad's feet when he makes the plays he's called on to make. It's not his fault if others don't. Clemens wouldn't be able to fix that.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
One of the most accurate when throwing under 15 yards, but his long range throws are wounded ducks. He is smart and accurate, yet for someone who throws "90% of his passes within 10 yards of the LOS" he throws a lot of ints?I think a team can win with Chad, but he makes playing defense a lot easier. The Jet OL is one of the top 3 pass protecting units and the Jets have two solid receivers in Cotchery and Coles, yet the lack of a prolific passing game is directly because Chad is a below average starting QB. If other QB's had the time he had they would put up much better numbers.
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
From Rotoworld:
Mr. Bill O'Reilly
Footballguy
He should and probably will eventually, but I think the sooner the better. I can't bare to watch Pennington play, let's go over the negatives with him:
He's small
He's a weak arm
He's often injured (see small)
He's slow (his feet and the balls he throws, they sail)
What use to be his strong point (not turning the ball over: High TD to INT ratio) is no longer there... He makes horrible decisions last season through this preseason...
Now backing him up is:
A confident second year Quarterback (2nd round pick) who has done everything he could do with his opportunities
He's bigger than Pennington
Has an NFL arm opposed to Pennington's Junior High Arm
He's got good athleticism
Makes great decisions (doesn't turn the ball over)
It's a no brainer to me, Pennington has been damaged goods after his FIRST rotator cup.
He's small
He's a weak arm
He's often injured (see small)
He's slow (his feet and the balls he throws, they sail)
What use to be his strong point (not turning the ball over: High TD to INT ratio) is no longer there... He makes horrible decisions last season through this preseason...
Now backing him up is:
A confident second year Quarterback (2nd round pick) who has done everything he could do with his opportunities
He's bigger than Pennington
Has an NFL arm opposed to Pennington's Junior High Arm
He's got good athleticism
Makes great decisions (doesn't turn the ball over)
It's a no brainer to me, Pennington has been damaged goods after his FIRST rotator cup.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
When you see stuff like the bolded print, you can tell that they're not trying to objectively report the news but rather trying to create a story. Here's the play by play log of the Jets first TD drive that Clemens led them on:1st and 10 at NYG 44 (10:04) D.Ware up the middle to NYG 40 for 4 yards (M.Gunn, M.Johnson).From Rotoworld:
2nd and 6 at NYG 40 (9:37) D.Ware right end to NYG 30 for 10 yards (M.Gunn, C.Dahl).
1st and 10 at NYG 30 (8:53) (No Huddle) D.Ware right end to NYG 24 for 6 yards (M.Gunn).
2nd and 4 at NYG 24 (8:12) D.Ware left guard to NYG 19 for 5 yards (C.Dahl, C.Blackburn).
1st and 10 at NYG 19 (7:41) D.Ware left guard to NYG 16 for 3 yards (C.Dahl).
2nd and 7 at NYG 16 (7:14) (No Huddle) D.Ware right end for 16 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 12 12
As for Pennington, I have no idea why people continue to evaluate veterans based on the pre-season. Pennington is healthy now, and that's the only thing that matters. No, he's probably not a top 10 QB in the league, but he's in the top half of QBs. Clemens looks like he could be very good one day, too. That doesn't make a controversy.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I am impressed with your ability to tell that Clemens makes great decisions after watching him play in pre-season games against 2nd, 3rd and 4th string defenses that don't blitz.
Mr. Bill O'Reilly
Footballguy
Oh my bad I thought watching someone's collegiate career as well as how he's performed in preseason and practices (last year and this year) as well as hearing all the rave revues by coaches might have something to do with why I have a good idea of Clemen's decision making... And I'm also guessing that since I've watched Chad Pennington AFTER his two surgeries and watch him sail balls and make POOR DECISIONS all of last year along with preseason I'm wrong about him, too.Yep, my bad... How dare I have MY OWN opinions!!!
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Whether or not Pennington makes good decisions is irrelevant to the question of whether Clemens makes good decisions. I don't believe any amount of collegiate tape, pre-season games against backups that don't blitz, or practice, will let you know if a QB can make good decisions at the NFL level. NFL games are that much different than college games, pre-season games or practice.Just my
Raiders
Footballguy
If the jets are 3-3 or worse after 6 games Clemens will be in there. I just traded for him in my dynasty league. I took a look at every QB situation in the league and believed this was the one that was the most likely to change and create the highest upside for a young backup QB.
cstu
Footballguy
Probably not that much of lock then...
BuckCherry
Footballguy
Sounds like a Baltimore era Trent Dilfer!
Traders2001
Footballguy
By week 5 when the Jets are 1 - 4 and Pennington has thrown more int for TD's then passes for TD's.
Rovers
Footballguy
Talk about clueless hopeful thinking.... this ranks right up there. The Jets open with NE, then go to Baltimore, followed by MIA, BUF, the Giants and Philly. But becuase you traded for Clemens, it's gonna happen, eh? OK Mr Mangini. Pass the pipe please. Last year when MOST of the posters who commented swore the Jets would have the first pick in the draft, Pennington was the QB of a playoff team. Clemens has looked good.... against the second and third team D's in preseason games. Sure, that's reason enough to state if the Jets go 3-3 Pennington gets benched. Duh. There are MANY QB's on a shorter leash than Pennington is.... you might want to sober up and take another look at your "most likely to change" scientific study. But then again, there where Raiders fans on Jets messgae boards last year telling us how great the Raiders were going to be.... being brainless sometimes seems to make it significantly more likely that one would be a Raider fan. The TD pass to Washington was about 45 yards in the air. Perfectly placed. For those who don't know, and this seems to be the majority, Pennington has NEVER had a good preseason. NEVER. No, he doesn't have a strong arm, and that does limit the offense some, but when it counts, Pennington will play well. Pennington took a team with no run offense at all to a playoff birth last year, but two bad preseason games, and he's done. Right.
