Will Republicans shut down the government again? (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Boehner and McConnell desperately do NOT want this to happen. But a group of conservatives are pushing for a shutdown unless Planned Parenthood is defunded, which no Dem will agree to and Obama will veto if it ever gets that far.

Ted Cruz is counting on a shutdown to promote his candidacy with the conservative base; he is the main driving force behind this. But it's strongly supported by the base, which wants to blow things up in Washington rather than see business as usual. Not sure the GOP leadership will be able to avoid a shutdown; it's all supposed to come to a head Friday.

 

[NCCommish]

Very, very bad for their electoral chances. Probably cost them Senate seats and the Presidency. And my guess is the average GOP voter has no stomach for a shutdown so it may even cost them some congressional seats. Further Planned Parenthood is more popular than anyone running on the GOP ticket. The adults in the room know this. Cruz is not.one of the adults.

 

[timschochet]

Very, very bad for their electoral chances. Probably cost them Senate seats and the Presidency. And my guess is the average GOP voter has no stomach for a shutdown so it may even cost them some congressional seats. Further Planned Parenthood is more popular than anyone running on the GOP ticket. The adults in the room know this. Cruz is not.one of the adults.

I wonder if conservatives care though? You see the support for Trump- it seems to me this is the same root impetus- the desire to just blow everything up. It's pretty powerful right now.

 

[GreenNGold]

Very, very bad for their electoral chances. Probably cost them Senate seats and the Presidency. And my guess is the average GOP voter has no stomach for a shutdown so it may even cost them some congressional seats. Further Planned Parenthood is more popular than anyone running on the GOP ticket. The adults in the room know this. Cruz is not.one of the adults.

I wonder if conservatives care though? You see the support for Trump- it seems to me this is the same root impetus- the desire to just blow everything up. It's pretty powerful right now.

It's crazy how Trump is the only Republican candidate that is moderate enough (and reasonable enough) to oppose this. The rest of them are all lunatics.

 

[timschochet]

Umm no Trump is for the shutdown: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trump-government-shutdown-planned-parenthood-120981

 

[NCCommish]

Very, very bad for their electoral chances. Probably cost them Senate seats and the Presidency. And my guess is the average GOP voter has no stomach for a shutdown so it may even cost them some congressional seats. Further Planned Parenthood is more popular than anyone running on the GOP ticket. The adults in the room know this. Cruz is not.one of the adults.

I wonder if conservatives care though? You see the support for Trump- it seems to me this is the same root impetus- the desire to just blow everything up. It's pretty powerful right now.

Saw a poll that said 71% of all polled had no interest in shutting down the government over Planned Parenthood. That includes 48% of Republicans to 41%. This will not go well for the GOP as other polls make it clear the Congress will be blamed for it.

 

[dschuler]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

 

[GreenNGold]

Umm no Trump is for the shutdown: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trump-government-shutdown-planned-parenthood-120981

Not what I read: http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/12/donald-trump-defends-planned-parenthood-calls-abortions-small-part-of-what-they-do/

 

[timschochet]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems. As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

 

[timschochet]

Umm no Trump is for the shutdown: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trump-government-shutdown-planned-parenthood-120981

Not what I read: http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/12/donald-trump-defends-planned-parenthood-calls-abortions-small-part-of-what-they-do/

Then he's changed his mind again. Imagine that.

 

[dschuler]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems. As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

Planned Parenthood is the only place to get an abortion? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking Tim. For the record, I'm not on one side of this either way. But to blame it on one side is bias, unless there is nowhere else to get the treatment. This seems like a bunch of toddlers fighting over a new toy.

 

[timschochet]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems. As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

Planned Parenthood is the only place to get an abortion? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking Tim. For the record, I'm not on one side of this either way. But to blame it on one side is bias, unless there is nowhere else to get the treatment. This seems like a bunch of toddlers fighting over a new toy.

PP doesn't receive any government funding for abortions. That's not allowed by law. Only a very small percentage of what PP actually does is even tied to abortions (I think it's 3%). The rest is devoted to all sorts of other woman's health issues and family planning. There are all sorts or rural areas where PP is the only available source for this stuff. Cutting their funding would deprive a lot of women basic health needs.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm one of the people who has a problem with funding Planned Parenthood because of its abortion services (I'm fine with everything else they do), but shutting down the government over this issue is insane and childish. You don't blow up the world just because you aren't getting your way on one tiny little policy item.

 

[Amused to Death]

Has it been determined yet if PP actually broke any laws? And if I understand it right, the fetal tissue being sold is for medical research is it not? I'm in favor of taking the emotion out of it and let the law run its course. Anyone found in violation should face prosecution. Otherwise, let PP operate within the law.

Seems to make the most sense to me. If laws need to be changed, follow the proper procedures. Defunding seems like it would have the opposite affect of what the GOP hopes to accomplish.

 

[jonessed]

Those that want to shut it down don't have the votes. Much ado about nothing.

 

[avoiding injuries]

I'm one of the people who has a problem with funding Planned Parenthood because of its abortion services (I'm fine with everything else they do), but shutting down the government over this issue is insane and childish. You don't blow up the world just because you aren't getting your way on one tiny little policy item.

Sounds like it could be easily avoided then.

 

[dschuler]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems. As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

Planned Parenthood is the only place to get an abortion? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking Tim. For the record, I'm not on one side of this either way. But to blame it on one side is bias, unless there is nowhere else to get the treatment. This seems like a bunch of toddlers fighting over a new toy.

PP doesn't receive any government funding for abortions. That's not allowed by law. Only a very small percentage of what PP actually does is even tied to abortions (I think it's 3%). The rest is devoted to all sorts of other woman's health issues and family planning. There are all sorts or rural areas where PP is the only available source for this stuff. Cutting their funding would deprive a lot of women basic health needs.

Wouldn't it be easier to just fire the people in these videos, pass the damn budget with PP, and move on?

 

[Amused to Death]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems.As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

Planned Parenthood is the only place to get an abortion? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking Tim. For the record, I'm not on one side of this either way. But to blame it on one side is bias, unless there is nowhere else to get the treatment. This seems like a bunch of toddlers fighting over a new toy.

PP doesn't receive any government funding for abortions. That's not allowed by law. Only a very small percentage of what PP actually does is even tied to abortions (I think it's 3%). The rest is devoted to all sorts of other woman's health issues and family planning.There are all sorts or rural areas where PP is the only available source for this stuff. Cutting their funding would deprive a lot of women basic health needs.

Wouldn't it be easier to just fire the people in these videos, pass the damn budget with PP, and move on?

Yup, but justice for those in the video is not what the GOP wants. The GOP wants to make back-alley abortions popular again.

 

[timschochet]

Those that want to shut it down don't have the votes. Much ado about nothing.

Wellthats the question. According to today's news reports they DO have the votes, at least unless Boehner is willing to call a vote without the approval of his caucus which he's never been willing to do before. So we'll see.

 

[Mohawk]

dschuler... this is Congress we are talking about... you have to stop making sense!

 

[dschuler]

I'm expecting the Pope to chime in on this at some point FWIW.

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/09/22/man-behind-shocking-planned-parenthood-videos-invited-to-pope-francis-congressional-address/

 

[timschochet]

Washington Post says it's likely to happen: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/09/09/get-ready-experts-say-a-government-shutdown-is-likely/

 

[dschuler]

dschuler... this is Congress we are talking about... you have to stop making sense!

If these guys weren't so worried about getting reelected or moving up a rung on a ladder we would be better off.

 

[The Commish]

Umm no Trump is for the shutdown: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trump-government-shutdown-planned-parenthood-120981

Not what I read: http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/12/donald-trump-defends-planned-parenthood-calls-abortions-small-part-of-what-they-do/

Then he's changed his mind again. Imagine that.

Yeah, YOU of all people don't want to open this can of worms.

 

[Apple Jack]

Those that want to shut it down don't have the votes. Much ado about nothing.

Wellthats the question. According to today's news reports they DO have the votes, at least unless Boehner is willing to call a vote without the approval of his caucus which he's never been willing to do before. So we'll see.

The whip will pistol whip. No way they let this happen over PP. Especially with the poll numbers.

 

[jon_mx]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems.As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

Planned Parenthood is the only place to get an abortion? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking Tim. For the record, I'm not on one side of this either way. But to blame it on one side is bias, unless there is nowhere else to get the treatment. This seems like a bunch of toddlers fighting over a new toy.

PP doesn't receive any government funding for abortions. That's not allowed by law. Only a very small percentage of what PP actually does is even tied to abortions (I think it's 3%). The rest is devoted to all sorts of other woman's health issues and family planning.There are all sorts or rural areas where PP is the only available source for this stuff. Cutting their funding would deprive a lot of women basic health needs.

The only way they get to the 3% figure is to say that passing out a $1 condom is the same as performing a $1500 abortion. It is a spun up figure, which if the spinning was reversed you would scream bloody murder over. But that is typical Tim.

 

[matuski]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems.As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

Planned Parenthood is the only place to get an abortion? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking Tim. For the record, I'm not on one side of this either way. But to blame it on one side is bias, unless there is nowhere else to get the treatment. This seems like a bunch of toddlers fighting over a new toy.

PP doesn't receive any government funding for abortions. That's not allowed by law. Only a very small percentage of what PP actually does is even tied to abortions (I think it's 3%). The rest is devoted to all sorts of other woman's health issues and family planning.There are all sorts or rural areas where PP is the only available source for this stuff. Cutting their funding would deprive a lot of women basic health needs.

The only way they get to the 3% figure is to say that passing out a $1 condom is the same as performing a $1500 abortion. It is a spun up figure, which if the spinning was reversed you would scream bloody murder over. But that is typical Tim.

If you have identified the spin.. please remove it and show us the unspun math.

eta - btw it gets spun every day that abortions are what PP is all about.

 

[jonessed]

Those that want to shut it down don't have the votes. Much ado about nothing.

Wellthats the question. According to today's news reports they DO have the votes, at least unless Boehner is willing to call a vote without the approval of his caucus which he's never been willing to do before. So we'll see.

Yes, he has done it before.

 

[Meatwad Reloaded]

lol...none of this matters...all Trump has to do is stay on course and keep attacking.

He will at some point get expelled from the Republicans, then he will run as a third party dude. Liberals love this idea, until they discover that there are lots of Dems that actually agree with Trump's message.

In a three way race, I think it is pretty easy for him to get 38 - 40% of the vote and win enough states to prevail. He has way more juice than Ross Perot had and if you forget, Perot almost made it through in 92.

 

[sublimeone]

The government has been shut 17 times since 1976... I think we'll survive. Come on Tim, even you have to be disgusted with what Planned Parenthood has been doing. This is one of the times to draw a line in the sand.

And how about updating that thread title? It's not republicans shutting down the government if dems won't agree to it and Obama will veto...

 

[Amused to Death]

Has it been determined yet if PP actually broke any laws? And if I understand it right, the fetal tissue being sold is for medical research is it not? I'm in favor of taking the emotion out of it and let the law run its course. Anyone found in violation should face prosecution. Otherwise, let PP operate within the law.

Seems to make the most sense to me. If laws need to be changed, follow the proper procedures. Defunding seems like it would have the opposite affect of what the GOP hopes to accomplish.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

My sources are telling me this goes right down to the wire as per usual. They only had ten legislative days to agree on a continuing resolution, that's like 45 minutes to the rest of us.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

The government has been shut 17 times since 1976... I think we'll survive. Come on Tim, even you have to be disgusted with what Planned Parenthood has been doing. This is one of the times to draw a line in the sand.

And how about updating that thread title? It's not republicans shutting down the government if dems won't agree to it and Obama will veto...

 

[jon_mx]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems.As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

Planned Parenthood is the only place to get an abortion? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking Tim. For the record, I'm not on one side of this either way. But to blame it on one side is bias, unless there is nowhere else to get the treatment. This seems like a bunch of toddlers fighting over a new toy.

PP doesn't receive any government funding for abortions. That's not allowed by law. Only a very small percentage of what PP actually does is even tied to abortions (I think it's 3%). The rest is devoted to all sorts of other woman's health issues and family planning.There are all sorts or rural areas where PP is the only available source for this stuff. Cutting their funding would deprive a lot of women basic health needs.

The only way they get to the 3% figure is to say that passing out a $1 condom is the same as performing a $1500 abortion. It is a spun up figure, which if the spinning was reversed you would scream bloody murder over. But that is typical Tim.

If you have identified the spin.. please remove it and show us the unspun math.

eta - btw it gets spun every day that abortions are what PP is all about.

PP provides insufficient data to do even a decent guess. But both figures used by PP and those used by anti-PP (3% or 94%) are no where near honest. If a dollar value was places on each type of service you could come up with a decent guess. I would bet it comes closer to 50% than either of those numbers.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Has it been determined yet if PP actually broke any laws? And if I understand it right, the fetal tissue being sold is for medical research is it not? I'm in favor of taking the emotion out of it and let the law run its course. Anyone found in violation should face prosecution. Otherwise, let PP operate within the law.

Seems to make the most sense to me. If laws need to be changed, follow the proper procedures. Defunding seems like it would have the opposite affect of what the GOP hopes to accomplish.

No they haven't.

 

[Apple Jack]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems.As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

Planned Parenthood is the only place to get an abortion? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking Tim. For the record, I'm not on one side of this either way. But to blame it on one side is bias, unless there is nowhere else to get the treatment. This seems like a bunch of toddlers fighting over a new toy.

PP doesn't receive any government funding for abortions. That's not allowed by law. Only a very small percentage of what PP actually does is even tied to abortions (I think it's 3%). The rest is devoted to all sorts of other woman's health issues and family planning.There are all sorts or rural areas where PP is the only available source for this stuff. Cutting their funding would deprive a lot of women basic health needs.

The only way they get to the 3% figure is to say that passing out a $1 condom is the same as performing a $1500 abortion. It is a spun up figure, which if the spinning was reversed you would scream bloody murder over. But that is typical Tim.

Are you suggesting that preventing unwanted pregnancy is relatively insignificant while simultaneously clutching your pearls over abortion?

 

[NCCommish]

The video is so heavily edited even the allegedly raw video is useless. This according to forensic video experts. No laws were broken. No one should be fired. And one of your leading candidates used fetal tissue in his research. When you rely on this crap to try to win you just look stupid.

 

[NCCommish]

Oh and an abortion doesn't cost 1500.00 either. Less than 500 on average.

 

[Amused to Death]

The video is so heavily edited even the allegedly raw video is useless. This according to forensic video experts. No laws were broken. No one should be fired. And one of your leading candidates used fetal tissue in his research. When you rely on this crap to try to win you just look stupid.

So this whole "defund/shut down the government" is really just their way of throwing a tantrum and holding their breath hoping to get what they want?

 

[jon_mx]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems.As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

Planned Parenthood is the only place to get an abortion? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking Tim. For the record, I'm not on one side of this either way. But to blame it on one side is bias, unless there is nowhere else to get the treatment. This seems like a bunch of toddlers fighting over a new toy.

PP doesn't receive any government funding for abortions. That's not allowed by law. Only a very small percentage of what PP actually does is even tied to abortions (I think it's 3%). The rest is devoted to all sorts of other woman's health issues and family planning.There are all sorts or rural areas where PP is the only available source for this stuff. Cutting their funding would deprive a lot of women basic health needs.

The only way they get to the 3% figure is to say that passing out a $1 condom is the same as performing a $1500 abortion. It is a spun up figure, which if the spinning was reversed you would scream bloody murder over. But that is typical Tim.

Are you suggesting that preventing unwanted pregnancy is relatively insignificant while simultaneously clutching your pearls over abortion?

I have no idea where you come up with that. All I am suggesting is if an Architect designs 1 building in a three month period but during the same time takes 300 pees, it would be a silly metric to suggest he spends most of his time peeing.

 

[NCCommish]

The video is so heavily edited even the allegedly raw video is useless. This according to forensic video experts. No laws were broken. No one should be fired. And one of your leading candidates used fetal tissue in his research. When you rely on this crap to try to win you just look stupid.

So this whole "defund/shut down the government" is really just their way of throwing a tantrum and holding their breath hoping to get what they want?

Yep

 

[jon_mx]

Oh and an abortion doesn't cost 1500.00 either. Less than 500 on average.

According to PP own website, they can and do cost that much at the high end. But 500 is a better number for an average.

 

[tommyboy]

I sure hope so

 

[timschochet]

I think it is throwing a tantrum yes. But IMO this is not really about PP or even about abortion, or about defeating the Dems and Obama or winning the next election cycle. It's about defeating the Republican establishment. Right now the base of the Republican Party wants to see the Establishment taken down and it's their priority over anything else. That's at the heart of this I believe.

 

[psychobillies]

The government has been shut 17 times since 1976... I think we'll survive. Come on Tim, even you have to be disgusted with what Planned Parenthood has been doing. This is one of the times to draw a line in the sand.

And how about updating that thread title? It's not republicans shutting down the government if dems won't agree to it and Obama will veto...

I remember the last time the gov't shut down. I had chicken for dinner that night. It was a little dry. I hope nobody has to relive that horror again.

 

[NCCommish]

Oh and an abortion doesn't cost 1500.00 either. Less than 500 on average.

According to PP own website, they can and do cost that much at the high end. But 500 is a better number for an average.

Fair enough

 

[Apple Jack]

The budget already been written and is reappropriating money from planned parenthood and using that money for other women's health organizations. It will be up to the president to sign the bill or not sign the bill. What's wrong with that?

The other women's health organizations are not prepared to handle what PP does, so this sort of idea is a nonstarter with Dems.As far as "it will be up to the President" that's the same spin Republicans tried to use last time. It won't fly. If there is a shutdown, everybody knows who will be to blame.

Planned Parenthood is the only place to get an abortion? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking Tim. For the record, I'm not on one side of this either way. But to blame it on one side is bias, unless there is nowhere else to get the treatment. This seems like a bunch of toddlers fighting over a new toy.

PP doesn't receive any government funding for abortions. That's not allowed by law. Only a very small percentage of what PP actually does is even tied to abortions (I think it's 3%). The rest is devoted to all sorts of other woman's health issues and family planning.There are all sorts or rural areas where PP is the only available source for this stuff. Cutting their funding would deprive a lot of women basic health needs.

The only way they get to the 3% figure is to say that passing out a $1 condom is the same as performing a $1500 abortion. It is a spun up figure, which if the spinning was reversed you would scream bloody murder over. But that is typical Tim.

Are you suggesting that preventing unwanted pregnancy is relatively insignificant while simultaneously clutching your pearls over abortion?

I have no idea where you come up with that. All I am suggesting is if an Architect designs 1 building in a three month period but doing the same time takes 300 pees, it would be a silly metric to suggest he spends most of his time peeing.

And I would say if two people come into PP and one leaves with condoms while the other gets an abortion, 50% of the services performed that day involved abortions.

 

[lod01]

Umm no Trump is for the shutdown: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trump-government-shutdown-planned-parenthood-120981

Who isn't. It's a fantastic opportunity in the stock market to make quick $. I totally encourage a 1-2 week shutdown.

 

[jon_mx]

And I would say if two people come into PP and one leaves with condoms while the other gets an abortion, 50% of the services performed that day involved abortions.

Yes, and I would call you out for either being extremely stupid or intentionally misleading.

 

[psychobillies]

I think it is throwing a tantrum yes. But IMO this is not really about PP or even about abortion, or about defeating the Dems and Obama or winning the next election cycle. It's about defeating the Republican establishment. Right now the base of the Republican Party wants to see the Establishment taken down and it's their priority over anything else. That's at the heart of this I believe.

Well guys like Cruz were elected to do just this. Abortion is a big deal to his constituents. What do want him to do, try and please moderates even though he has promised to fight this sort of thing?

Blows my mind that abortion is such a big issue to everybody considering the major problems this country has, but your guys said they will fight for women's rights, and the other side said they would fight against abortion. I'm not seeing a lot of compromise from anybody. As usual.