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Will the Democrats regret this impeachment Investigation? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TripItUp
- Start date
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[scooter]
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
From the article...
“Fundraising has exploded for the GOP, with the Republican National Committee reporting it hauled in $25.3 million during October and had $61.4 million in the hopper at month's end.
In contrast, the Democrat party machine brought in a mere $9 million. At the end of last month, the Democratic National Committee was $7 million in debt and had only $8.7 million in the kitty.”
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[scooter]
Footballguy
These types of disparities are not uncommon when one party has an unopposed incumbent, since Democrat donations are currently being given towards individual candidates, not towards the party committee.
But the writer of that opinion piece has no intention of mentioning that fact, because it would destroy her narrative and deprive her of the viral story she is craving.
This type of article is the epitome of sloppy hit-and-run fake news.
The General
Footballguy
Only to people not paying attention.
I just read that article mentioned in the OP. Eeeesh
I just read that article mentioned in the OP. Eeeesh
timschochet
Footballguy
Allow me to quote Devin Nunes: not in this lifetime or the next.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
What else is she going to say? If it turns out to be an egregious mistake, do you think she's going to admit it? I sure hope you and others here don't think she and others like Schiff care about the principal of it all. Unfortunately I get the sense that liberals here buy into these throwaway platitudes. "Right thing to do", lol. If this blows up in their faces, privately there will be hell to pay. They'll never admit it publicly though.
A reminder that Dems and Reps have exchanged scripts from 1998. The lines being read by Dems in 2019 are just as dumb as when they were spouted by Republicans in the late 90's.
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skol asylum
Footballguy
The facts which lead this POTUS to impeachment are a little more serious than a blue dress.
squistion
Footballguy
I am certain Schiff and Pelosi care about the principal of it all, as do most Democrats. If POTUS was a Democrat and engaged in the same behavior that Trump has, I would be among the first here to call for that President to step down or be impeached.
And for the record, although I can't prove it since it predates this and the FFA forum, I thought and stated publicly at the time that Bill Clinton should have resigned after it was revealed that he lied to the American public when he pointed his finger and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman...Ms Lewinsky." However, I didn't think that, in itself, rose to the level of impeachable conduct.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
And there would be those on the other side who would have a big problem with lying under oath. There's no point in arguing the merits of weakly supported, partisan impeachments. But don't let that stop you I guess.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
Everyone should care about abuse of power, attempted extortion/bribery and obstruction of justice, irrespective of party. It is sad commentary that most Republicans don't (if polls are any indication).
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Of course everyone should care. The problem is that our political parties are made up of people who are very selective about when they care about those things. When it's their side, they look the other way. When it's the other side, it's the most disgusting, egregious transgression in the history of politics.
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
So what is the solution? I think it's to personally pledge to always care regardless of the "side". Also, use your vote to hold politicians accountable.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Non, rien de rien.
whoknew
Footballguy
How can it possibly be an egregious mistake to impeach a President who held funds Congress designated for an ally until that ally announced an investigation into his political rival?
They have no choice but to impeach.
Skoo
Footballguy
I'd argue with you but we both know that'd be a waste of time.multiple? There hasn't been one.
In the post-truth world, everyone can believe whatever suits them best!
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
True. Best to stick to the facts and that is Trump has not committed one proven crime while in office. Thank you.
Skoo
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
You're welcome. I know you are really hoping Trump committed a crime but all signs point to NO.Thanks for making my point for me
[scooter]
Footballguy
And her sole pieces of evidence are 1) Adam Schiff didn't rush to judgment, and 2) Democrats are currently donating to candidates instead of the DNC.
This is wishcasting fodder.
squistion
Footballguy
Mueller pointed out in his report that according to precedent (not law) a sitting President can not be charged with any crime, so if he can't be charged while in office, then it can't be proven that he committed a crime from a legal standpoint.
Now while obstruction of justice and attempted extortion/bribery may not be proven as crimes, they may amount to impeachable offenses (See Andrew Johnson, who had an article of impeachment for him removing a member of his cabinet, which was not then and is not now a crime).
zoonation
Footballguy
I suspect that many democrats in swing states may regret it. It has already been shown that the needle of public opinion has not moved and, in fact, may have moved in favour of Trump in swing states. Some dems may pay a political price for the defence of the American constitutional democracy. No amount of evidence will move people off Trump. The fact that he is corrupt and surrounds himself with criminals and other corrupt people does not matter.
We are living in a post truth world. Trump and GOP senators are actively pushing Russian propaganda. The GOP controlled senate will not even take up legislation to protect the American electoral process. They know they benefit from the interference, so they are happy to let it happen.
One need only look at the widespread support for the remarkably flimsy defences of the President on Ukraine meddling:
1. No first hand witnesses (all of whom have been identified by witnesses under oath and prevented from testifying by the WH); and
2. The aid was released anyway (after Trump got busted. The fact he told Sondland "no QPQ" is IMO evidence that he knew he was already busted. That expression was not in Trump's lexicon, let's get real. His lawyers had explained to him what he had done.)
These defences are playing strong with the base and, it appears, with many independents in swing states. Or they just don't care and accept the corruption. The GOP is beating the Dems on controlling the narrative (again) and are going to turn the Senate trial into a total circus, unless Roberts stops it.
The President will not be removed, no matter what happens.
We are living in a post truth world. Trump and GOP senators are actively pushing Russian propaganda. The GOP controlled senate will not even take up legislation to protect the American electoral process. They know they benefit from the interference, so they are happy to let it happen.
One need only look at the widespread support for the remarkably flimsy defences of the President on Ukraine meddling:
1. No first hand witnesses (all of whom have been identified by witnesses under oath and prevented from testifying by the WH); and
2. The aid was released anyway (after Trump got busted. The fact he told Sondland "no QPQ" is IMO evidence that he knew he was already busted. That expression was not in Trump's lexicon, let's get real. His lawyers had explained to him what he had done.)
These defences are playing strong with the base and, it appears, with many independents in swing states. Or they just don't care and accept the corruption. The GOP is beating the Dems on controlling the narrative (again) and are going to turn the Senate trial into a total circus, unless Roberts stops it.
The President will not be removed, no matter what happens.
Weebs210
Footballguy
This interaction reminds me of that scene from Billy Madison when Chris Farley keeps making stuff up and Billy keeps telling him no you/he didn't. Then he ends with but you could imagine it right?
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GoBirds
Footballguy
No doubt, it will accomplish nothing and is purely a political charade. Voters don’t want this, focus on making their life better not more faux drama.
GoBirds
Footballguy
They think if they yell it loud and often it makes it true, best to tune out the noise usually. We will see all when the dust settles and appears to be more of the same.multiple? There hasn't been one.
[scooter]
Footballguy
I disagree, and here's why: there's very little evidence showing that voters don't want this.
For example, in the opinion piece that you just cited, the only evidence that the author could come up with was a disparity in donations to party committees. She conveniently omitted donations to party candidates, and she provided zero evidence of actual voters who don't want this.
Weebs210
Footballguy
What about this one?
===
On 11/15/2019 at 2:42 PM, Don't Noonan said:
Nothing has been presented so far. If Trump committed a crime or did something against America's best interest I would agree to impeachment.
On 11/15/2019 KPD said:
Well that's a relief. Now if only we could figure out who Individual-1 is.
As a filing by Manhattan federal prosecutors notes, “Individual-1” directed Cohen to make payments to two women to conceal his sexual relationship with them. Cohen admitted that this conduct was a crime — indeed, Cohen pled guilty to it in a Manhattan federal courtroom and was sentenced Wednesday to three years in prison.
So ... if Individual-1 could be identified, and since that person committed a crime, then you would agree to impeachment right?
[scooter]
Footballguy
Polling still shows that more people want impeachment than not. The aggregator at FiveThirtyEight does show a slight dip since its peak last month, but A) it's still 46-45 in favor of impeachment, and B) support for impeachment is 8 points higher than it was in September.
If voters really didn't want impeachment, we'd see a massive flip into negative territory.
beef
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
So don’t even try? I’m sure Joe voter will be pretty excited your party spent 4 years on solely Russia and Ukraine. Have at it, works for me.
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Weebs210
Footballguy
That would be actual work that benefits everyone. They are more concerned with throwing mud at Trump until something sticks. Unfortunately it will be another 5 years of these antics.
squistion
Footballguy
The Democrats have done actual work that benefits everyone. They have passed 250 bills in Congress that are sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk because he refuses to bring them to the senate floor for a vote.
whoknew
Footballguy
This has been discussed so many times, I thought y'all knew. Forgive me for making that assumption.
250 House-passed bills are in Mitch McConnell's "legislative graveyard"
McConnell's blockade of House legislation is about to face its toughest test
What is Congress doing besides Impeachment?
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Gopher State
Footballguy
The democratics though this was going to be a slam dunk, now not looking that way. Trump sees to be getting stronger in fund support and polls. He now leads in WI, this could back fire 
for the Dems in the upcoming elections.
for the Dems in the upcoming elections.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
One thing that is interesting to me is that although support for impeachment has been going down, his popularity hasn't changed much at all. Perhaps we'll see more movement in the future but I don't think there is much evidence that this was a political mistake.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Since I think the government makes poor decisions and is taking this country in the wrong direction most of the time, I'm all for anything that essentially stops the government from doing anything. If this is what is going to go in DC for the next year, I'm thrilled. Hopefully, we get more of this in 2021.
Trump will get re-elected but the case that what Trump did was wrong proven by the Democrats will have no bearing. What will have a bearing is the fact that Republican voters in key battleground states aren't listening to the facts and or are too partison and have no conscience.
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