Democrats behaving stupidly again… (1 Viewer)

[AAABatteries]

If you are afraid you may lose to the non-MAGA guy so you promote the MAGA guy then I would suggest you need to get better ideas.

 

[Toby2ElectricBugaloo]

I had no idea he was a Jew until it was mentioned in that thread. Also at 90 not sure he is pulling the strings anymore.

As was mentioned in the other thread: you may not have known he was Jewish (and nobody is calling you an anti-Semite for hating on him), but you can be damn sure that the conservative media folks who chose to make him their preferred villain instead of any of the other exceedingly wealthy Dem donors sure did.

 

[Summer Wheat]

As was mentioned in the other thread: you may not have known he was Jewish (and nobody is calling you an anti-Semite for hating on him), but you can be damn sure that the conservative media folks who chose to make him their preferred villain instead of any of the other exceedingly wealthy Dem donors sure did.

Not hating on him at all.  I don`t like when anyone on either side tries to buy votes.

 

[Toby2ElectricBugaloo]

If you are afraid you may lose to the non-MAGA guy so you promote the MAGA guy then I would suggest you need to get better ideas.

I think this is true in 99% of the cases including all the House and Senate races.  But there's something weird going with MD Governor and the other blue state GOP governors. There's enough of them, in enough states that are demographically similar, to ID a trend. Explaining the trend is another matter.

My theory is that a lot of these guys win the support of comfortable and wealthy white moderates who call themselves "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" (as if there's such a thing). Voting for a GOP governor ensures their taxes will stay low and the legislature will stay moderate, and in exchange those governors take the Dem side on social issues (not that they have any choice given their legislatures) and make every effort not to embarrass the state with far right nonsense.  I think these voters also subconsciously vote for a GOP governor so they can tell themselves and their friends they''re open-minded and not blind partisans., but money is the big driver.

If my theory is true there's really not much the Dems could do to win over these voters in some cases (in others, like VA 2021, they just ran a terrible candidate). S

Still doesn't make it OK to game the GOP primaries, though.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

This is exactly right:

"If Democrats believe Trumpists are existential threats to American democracy — & that this is bigger than partisan politics — supporting one against a Republican who says Biden won & risked his career by voting to impeach Trump after 1/6 seems to undercut that case a tiny bit."

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1551936827468152834

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Adam Kinzinger unsurprisingly gets this exactly right as well.

https://twitter.com/brikeilarcnn/status/1551909526349258753

 

[timschochet]

Attention @supermike80! I know this thread doesn’t quite fit your narrative of me so I thought I’d bring it to your attention. You can thank me later. 

 

[timschochet]

This is exactly right:

"If Democrats believe Trumpists are existential threats to American democracy — & that this is bigger than partisan politics — supporting one against a Republican who says Biden won & risked his career by voting to impeach Trump after 1/6 seems to undercut that case a tiny bit."

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1551936827468152834

Great tweet. It makes Democrats look awful, ridiculous, and hypocritical. Which is the way they’re behaving. 

 

[supermike80]

Attention @supermike80! I know this thread doesn’t quite fit your narrative of me so I thought I’d bring it to your attention. You can thank me later. 

Pointing out, on occasion that democrats do dumb things does not exonerate you from the narrative you perpetuate, every day, about how republicans are always bad.  

But nice try

 

[timschochet]

Pointing out, on occasion that democrats do dumb things does not exonerate you from the narrative you perpetuate, every day, about how republicans are always bad.  

But nice try

I regret that I didn’t receive your exoneration. Maybe next time? 

 

[BladeRunner]

I regret that I didn’t receive your exoneration. Maybe next time? 

You're going to need to do a lot more mea culpa's before you're even considered for exoneration.

 

[timschochet]

You're going to need to do a lot more mea culpa's before you're even considered for exoneration.

A lot more? I can’t recall doing any on this subject. 

 

[supermike80]

So let's summarize here:

1) Biden tells the country BEFORE his SCOTUS nomination that he will pick a black female.   Virtue Signaling 101.  To this day I don't know why he couldn't have put up 5 qualified diverse candidates, then picked her.   I'm 100% OK with her being there and do think it was time, but that was a dumb move

2) Announces the trade negotiations for Griner.   Dumb dumb dumb  Puts Americans at risk across the globe AND puts the entire trade at risk.   Even Russia came out and said that's not how you to it.  It should be behind the scenes.  And wanna know WHY we did that?  Because Griner is a black female and a lesbian.  Virtue Signaling 101.  And it was a dumb move

3) Nancy Pelosi announces IN ADVANCE of a trip to Taiwan.   Giving the Chinese plenty of time to respond.  And respond they did.  Now we are stuck with either pissing off the Chinese OR looking weak cause we backed down.  Why she wouldn't either not gone or gone and not announced it I don't know.  And wanna know why?  She's trying to show her support for the oppressed Taiwanese and have it translate here to the oppressed Americans that the dems care about them. Virtue Signaling 101.

The dems really need to stop with this and soon.  Their desire to continually virtue signal can hurt us as a country(not the SCOTUS pick of course....I'm glad she's there)  but this lately has been some really piss poor politics.   

 

[BladeRunner]

So let's summarize here:

1) Biden tells the country BEFORE his SCOTUS nomination that he will pick a black female.   Virtue Signaling 101.  To this day I don't know why he couldn't have put up 5 qualified diverse candidates, then picked her.   I'm 100% OK with her being there and do think it was time, but that was a dumb move

2) Announces the trade negotiations for Griner.   Dumb dumb dumb  Puts Americans at risk across the globe AND puts the entire trade at risk.   Even Russia came out and said that's not how you to it.  It should be behind the scenes.  And wanna know WHY we did that?  Because Griner is a black female and a lesbian.  Virtue Signaling 101.  And it was a dumb move

3) Nancy Pelosi announces IN ADVANCE of a trip to Taiwan.   Giving the Chinese plenty of time to respond.  And respond they did.  Now we are stuck with either pissing off the Chinese OR looking weak cause we backed down.  Why she wouldn't either not gone or gone and not announced it I don't know.  And wanna know why?  She's trying to show her support for the oppressed Taiwanese and have it translate here to the oppressed Americans that the dems care about them. Virtue Signaling 101.

The dems really need to stop with this and soon.  Their desire to continually virtue signal can hurt us as a country(not the SCOTUS pick of course....I'm glad she's there)  but this lately has been some really piss poor politics.   

Makes one yearn for the quiet, trouble-free days of Trump. 

 

[JIslander]

So let's summarize here:

1) Biden tells the country BEFORE his SCOTUS nomination that he will pick a black female.   Virtue Signaling 101.  To this day I don't know why he couldn't have put up 5 qualified diverse candidates, then picked her.   I'm 100% OK with her being there and do think it was time, but that was a dumb move

2) Announces the trade negotiations for Griner.   Dumb dumb dumb  Puts Americans at risk across the globe AND puts the entire trade at risk.   Even Russia came out and said that's not how you to it.  It should be behind the scenes.  And wanna know WHY we did that?  Because Griner is a black female and a lesbian.  Virtue Signaling 101.  And it was a dumb move

3) Nancy Pelosi announces IN ADVANCE of a trip to Taiwan.   Giving the Chinese plenty of time to respond.  And respond they did.  Now we are stuck with either pissing off the Chinese OR looking weak cause we backed down.  Why she wouldn't either not gone or gone and not announced it I don't know.  And wanna know why?  She's trying to show her support for the oppressed Taiwanese and have it translate here to the oppressed Americans that the dems care about them. Virtue Signaling 101.

The dems really need to stop with this and soon.  Their desire to continually virtue signal can hurt us as a country(not the SCOTUS pick of course....I'm glad she's there)  but this lately has been some really piss poor politics.   

You guys and you're "Virtue signaling TM"   -- its like when you're 16, got your license and you wanna drive everywhere -- you're wearing it out. -- and perhaps its really just......wait for it...... "Transparency TM" 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Former Republican Josh Barro has some words for the anti-anti-Trump Republicans complaining about Dems backing MAGA candidates:

Republicans are correct that many Democrats have acted hypocritically, raising alarm about Trump being a unique threat to democracy while they act to strengthen his grip on the Republican Party. But there’s lots of hypocrisy in politics. The reason this burns so much for the “Team Normal” Republicans is that Democrats are making life more difficult for them on two dimensions — they’re making it harder (at the margin, anyway) for them and their allies to win Republican primaries, and they’re helping to saddle the party with Trump’s preferred candidates, who are less likely to win general elections.

How do I know that’s the real reason Republicans are so indignant? It’s because when Democrats take actions that are consistent with their purported view that Trump is a danger to democracy — such as, for example, pursuing a criminal investigation of his activities — the “Team Normal” Republicans complain about that, too. Right now, the Republican bellyaching is the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago — it’s unprecedented! it strengthens his hand! it’s “overreach,” whatever — even though the actions of the Democrat at issue here (Merrick Garland) are perfectly congruent with viewing Trump as a legitimate and direct threat to democracy.

[...]

What the “Team Normal” Republicans would like is the arrangement they had before 2015 — they would like Trump to help stir up their own voters and generate “energy,” but they don’t want to have to defend his unpopular actions and characteristics to swing voters who have a negative view of him and they also don’t want to have intraparty fights with the candidates he supports. What they’d like to do is move not against him but past him. They see that Trump is absorbed by his own hobby-horses and searches for vengeance; he does not seem especially animated by the new culture wars of the day; maybe he can just be allowed to fade away, screaming into a void, as the party nominates DeSantis.

When Democrats help prop up candidates who are committed to avenging Trump, they interfere with this project. And if they indict Trump — raising the salience of Trump’s personal grievances and putting Trump’s fixation on his own alleged persecution into more plausible alignment with the locus of Republican primary voter interest in 2024 — they will also interfere with the project.

In the view of the Republicans who cry foul at these actions, it’s the Democrats’ responsibility not to back Trump or oppose him — it’s to ignore him, as they try mightily to do the same, in hopes that it will cause him to disappear in favor of another stronger potential nominee. That is, Democrats are supposed to participate in their strategy to get DeSantis nominated in 2024 — it’s their duty, even if it entails giving Trump a pass on criminal acts, and even though it will make Democrats less likely to win the 2024 election.

[...]

I just find it galling to watch a set of people who have failed so abjectly, both morally and strategically, as the Republican establishment — very much including the commentators at National Review and elsewhere, whose complete irrelevance in shaping the direction of the party was exposed by Trump’s rise and reign — stand up and demand that their opponents show them mercy and forbearance and assistance in their fight to ensure their party should win elections despite its association with Donald Trump. Who do you people think you are?

 

[BladeRunner]

Former Republican Josh Barro has some words for the anti-anti-Trump Republicans complaining about Dems backing MAGA candidates:

Republicans are correct that many Democrats have acted hypocritically, raising alarm about Trump being a unique threat to democracy while they act to strengthen his grip on the Republican Party. But there’s lots of hypocrisy in politics. The reason this burns so much for the “Team Normal” Republicans is that Democrats are making life more difficult for them on two dimensions — they’re making it harder (at the margin, anyway) for them and their allies to win Republican primaries, and they’re helping to saddle the party with Trump’s preferred candidates, who are less likely to win general elections.

How do I know that’s the real reason Republicans are so indignant? It’s because when Democrats take actions that are consistent with their purported view that Trump is a danger to democracy — such as, for example, pursuing a criminal investigation of his activities — the “Team Normal” Republicans complain about that, too. Right now, the Republican bellyaching is the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago — it’s unprecedented! it strengthens his hand! it’s “overreach,” whatever — even though the actions of the Democrat at issue here (Merrick Garland) are perfectly congruent with viewing Trump as a legitimate and direct threat to democracy.

[...]

What the “Team Normal” Republicans would like is the arrangement they had before 2015 — they would like Trump to help stir up their own voters and generate “energy,” but they don’t want to have to defend his unpopular actions and characteristics to swing voters who have a negative view of him and they also don’t want to have intraparty fights with the candidates he supports. What they’d like to do is move not against him but past him. They see that Trump is absorbed by his own hobby-horses and searches for vengeance; he does not seem especially animated by the new culture wars of the day; maybe he can just be allowed to fade away, screaming into a void, as the party nominates DeSantis.

When Democrats help prop up candidates who are committed to avenging Trump, they interfere with this project. And if they indict Trump — raising the salience of Trump’s personal grievances and putting Trump’s fixation on his own alleged persecution into more plausible alignment with the locus of Republican primary voter interest in 2024 — they will also interfere with the project.

In the view of the Republicans who cry foul at these actions, it’s the Democrats’ responsibility not to back Trump or oppose him — it’s to ignore him, as they try mightily to do the same, in hopes that it will cause him to disappear in favor of another stronger potential nominee. That is, Democrats are supposed to participate in their strategy to get DeSantis nominated in 2024 — it’s their duty, even if it entails giving Trump a pass on criminal acts, and even though it will make Democrats less likely to win the 2024 election.

[...]

I just find it galling to watch a set of people who have failed so abjectly, both morally and strategically, as the Republican establishment — very much including the commentators at National Review and elsewhere, whose complete irrelevance in shaping the direction of the party was exposed by Trump’s rise and reign — stand up and demand that their opponents show them mercy and forbearance and assistance in their fight to ensure their party should win elections despite its association with Donald Trump. Who do you people think you are?

Omg!! If Josh Barrow is saying it then we should all just drop everything and listen!

Who the hell is Josh barrow again?

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Former Republican Josh Barro has some words for the anti-anti-Trump Republicans complaining about Dems backing MAGA candidates:

Republicans are correct that many Democrats have acted hypocritically, raising alarm about Trump being a unique threat to democracy while they act to strengthen his grip on the Republican Party. But there’s lots of hypocrisy in politics. The reason this burns so much for the “Team Normal” Republicans is that Democrats are making life more difficult for them on two dimensions — they’re making it harder (at the margin, anyway) for them and their allies to win Republican primaries, and they’re helping to saddle the party with Trump’s preferred candidates, who are less likely to win general elections.

How do I know that’s the real reason Republicans are so indignant? It’s because when Democrats take actions that are consistent with their purported view that Trump is a danger to democracy — such as, for example, pursuing a criminal investigation of his activities — the “Team Normal” Republicans complain about that, too. Right now, the Republican bellyaching is the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago — it’s unprecedented! it strengthens his hand! it’s “overreach,” whatever — even though the actions of the Democrat at issue here (Merrick Garland) are perfectly congruent with viewing Trump as a legitimate and direct threat to democracy.

[...]

What the “Team Normal” Republicans would like is the arrangement they had before 2015 — they would like Trump to help stir up their own voters and generate “energy,” but they don’t want to have to defend his unpopular actions and characteristics to swing voters who have a negative view of him and they also don’t want to have intraparty fights with the candidates he supports. What they’d like to do is move not against him but past him. They see that Trump is absorbed by his own hobby-horses and searches for vengeance; he does not seem especially animated by the new culture wars of the day; maybe he can just be allowed to fade away, screaming into a void, as the party nominates DeSantis.

When Democrats help prop up candidates who are committed to avenging Trump, they interfere with this project. And if they indict Trump — raising the salience of Trump’s personal grievances and putting Trump’s fixation on his own alleged persecution into more plausible alignment with the locus of Republican primary voter interest in 2024 — they will also interfere with the project.

In the view of the Republicans who cry foul at these actions, it’s the Democrats’ responsibility not to back Trump or oppose him — it’s to ignore him, as they try mightily to do the same, in hopes that it will cause him to disappear in favor of another stronger potential nominee. That is, Democrats are supposed to participate in their strategy to get DeSantis nominated in 2024 — it’s their duty, even if it entails giving Trump a pass on criminal acts, and even though it will make Democrats less likely to win the 2024 election.

[...]

I just find it galling to watch a set of people who have failed so abjectly, both morally and strategically, as the Republican establishment — very much including the commentators at National Review and elsewhere, whose complete irrelevance in shaping the direction of the party was exposed by Trump’s rise and reign — stand up and demand that their opponents show them mercy and forbearance and assistance in their fight to ensure their party should win elections despite its association with Donald Trump. Who do you people think you are?

Omg!! If Josh Barrow is saying it then we should all just drop everything and listen!

Who the hell is Josh barrow again?

You can do whatever you want, including source-copping and avoiding the actual argument

 

[BladeRunner]

Former Republican Josh Barro has some words for the anti-anti-Trump Republicans complaining about Dems backing MAGA candidates:

Republicans are correct that many Democrats have acted hypocritically, raising alarm about Trump being a unique threat to democracy while they act to strengthen his grip on the Republican Party. But there’s lots of hypocrisy in politics. The reason this burns so much for the “Team Normal” Republicans is that Democrats are making life more difficult for them on two dimensions — they’re making it harder (at the margin, anyway) for them and their allies to win Republican primaries, and they’re helping to saddle the party with Trump’s preferred candidates, who are less likely to win general elections.

How do I know that’s the real reason Republicans are so indignant? It’s because when Democrats take actions that are consistent with their purported view that Trump is a danger to democracy — such as, for example, pursuing a criminal investigation of his activities — the “Team Normal” Republicans complain about that, too. Right now, the Republican bellyaching is the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago — it’s unprecedented! it strengthens his hand! it’s “overreach,” whatever — even though the actions of the Democrat at issue here (Merrick Garland) are perfectly congruent with viewing Trump as a legitimate and direct threat to democracy.

[...]

What the “Team Normal” Republicans would like is the arrangement they had before 2015 — they would like Trump to help stir up their own voters and generate “energy,” but they don’t want to have to defend his unpopular actions and characteristics to swing voters who have a negative view of him and they also don’t want to have intraparty fights with the candidates he supports. What they’d like to do is move not against him but past him. They see that Trump is absorbed by his own hobby-horses and searches for vengeance; he does not seem especially animated by the new culture wars of the day; maybe he can just be allowed to fade away, screaming into a void, as the party nominates DeSantis.

When Democrats help prop up candidates who are committed to avenging Trump, they interfere with this project. And if they indict Trump — raising the salience of Trump’s personal grievances and putting Trump’s fixation on his own alleged persecution into more plausible alignment with the locus of Republican primary voter interest in 2024 — they will also interfere with the project.

In the view of the Republicans who cry foul at these actions, it’s the Democrats’ responsibility not to back Trump or oppose him — it’s to ignore him, as they try mightily to do the same, in hopes that it will cause him to disappear in favor of another stronger potential nominee. That is, Democrats are supposed to participate in their strategy to get DeSantis nominated in 2024 — it’s their duty, even if it entails giving Trump a pass on criminal acts, and even though it will make Democrats less likely to win the 2024 election.

[...]

I just find it galling to watch a set of people who have failed so abjectly, both morally and strategically, as the Republican establishment — very much including the commentators at National Review and elsewhere, whose complete irrelevance in shaping the direction of the party was exposed by Trump’s rise and reign — stand up and demand that their opponents show them mercy and forbearance and assistance in their fight to ensure their party should win elections despite its association with Donald Trump. Who do you people think you are?

Omg!! If Josh Barrow is saying it then we should all just drop everything and listen!

Who the hell is Josh barrow again?

You can do whatever you want, including source-copping and avoiding the actual argument

Guy who quits the Republican party now becomes Democrat says bad things about republicans. What else is there to say?

You should understand that guys who change parties are actually more dogmatic to their new party so not only do they speak out against their old party, they have to do it with more fervor and hyperbole. This is what we got going on here . They need to prove to the new party that they are loyal without a shred of doubt.

We even have posters here who do the same thing because they switched parties. If the number 20 is the line where normal liberals stop, these guys have to go to 30 just to stay in the good graces of the new party.

So forgive me if I don't put much stock into what convenient side-switchers have to say, especially if I have no idea who the hell they are.

 

[timschochet]

So let’s get back to the main 2 points of this thread:
1. Democrats deserve criticism for promoting crazy loons in the Republican primaries.

2. Republicans deserve criticism for voting for the crazy loons.

These two points do not contradict each other. Nobody is off the hook for the current mess we’re in. As Pogo once said, we have met the enemy and he is us.