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Wonderlic Scores Leaked (1 Viewer)

D

Dexter Manley

Footballguy
The heavily-guarded Wonderlic test scores from the NFL Scouting Combine have started to leak out. From the Twitter page of Palm Beach Post writer Edgar Thompson:

Gators QB Tim Tebow scored a 22 on his Wonderlic, Jimmy Clausen 23, Colt McCoy 25 and Sam Bradford 36 out of 50, per NFL source.

The Wonderlic, a timed, 50-question exercise, tests the aptitude of draft prospects. The official results of the tests are distributed by the NFL to the 32 teams after the combine, with scores occasionally leaking out. Other noteworthy QB scores that have been reported in the past: Ryan Fitzpatrick (Harvard) 49, QB Matthew Stafford (Georgia) 38, QB Mark Sanchez (28), Michael Vick (20) and Vince Young (15, after getting a 6 on first attempt).
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http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/nfl_trac...01361?eref=sihp
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Osaurus said:
Theologians or Messiahs do not always perform well on standardized tests.
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...like Terry Bradshaw. Seriously though, I assume 36 is pretty good and does a lot for the stock of Bradford. St Louis looks to be setting up for a franchise QB pick at 1.1.
 
bigern1000 said:
Fitzpatrick (Ivy boy) = 49Claussen (Notre Dame, highly-regarded academic institution) = 23Hmmmm... :shrug:
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The best basketball player at Penn in generations got less than a 900 on his SATs, but still got into a school that supposedly didn't lower its standards for athletes. :shrug: It happens.
 
Tebow= simpleton. Reading NFL defenses= too hard. Run. Bench. Swaggart. Politics. Scandal. Redemption. Infommercial. Child support. Alcohol. Sobriety. Trailer. Happiness.

 
Wonderlic Scores Leaked, Bradford 36, McCoy 25, Tebow 22, Clausen 23
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All we learn from these scores (if accurate) is that each of the QB's listed above are capable of processing information fast enough to make it in the NFL if their abilities and desire are good enough. Anything more is overanalysis.
 
OK, let's compare these to some other NFL QB scores. They are all over the board. I can't really see any correlation between high Wonderlic scores and HOF careers.

Link

Here are some highlights, I bolded the ones I thought stood out:

D. Henson: 42

H. Millen: 41 (who?)

A. Smith: 40

E. Manning: 39

C. Krenzel: 38

R. Fitzpatrick: 38 (not 49)

C. Frye: 38

T. Romo: 37

A. Rodgers: 35

M. Leinart: 35

T. Brady: 33

S. Young: 33

M. Schaub: 31

P. Rivers: 30

M . Bulger: 29

M. Hasselbeck: 29

J. Elway: 29

P. Manning: 28

J. Cutler: 26

K. Orton: 26

C. Palmer: 26

B. Roethlisberger: 25

J. Campbell: 23

D. Culpepper: 18

V. Young: 15

D. Marino: 15

 
throwing out wonderlics because mediocre QBs never highly touted as prospects scored well on them is pretty silly...

Dan Marino with a 15 completely shocks me.

I'm not sure that scoring super high puts you at an advantage but I definitely think anyone who socres under 20 has a pretty severe handicap to make up.

 
Performance in any job is a complicted thing affected by many, many variables. One is cognitive ability.

For many jobs, physical abilities don't matter so much. For an NFL QB, they do. More than cognitive ability to be sure.

But performance is determined by a compensatory model and there is still a linear relationship between Wonderlic scores and QB performance. It should just be given much less weight than the tangible things like arm strength and accuracy.

But ALL ELSE being equal (andit never is) give me the smarter QB as there are a lot of decisions to be made based on limited iniformation.

 
Dexter Manley said:
The heavily-guarded Wonderlic test scores from the NFL Scouting Combine have started to leak out. From the Twitter page of Palm Beach Post writer Edgar Thompson:

Gators QB Tim Tebow scored a 22 on his Wonderlic, Jimmy Clausen 23, Colt McCoy 25 and Sam Bradford 36 out of 50, per NFL source.

The Wonderlic, a timed, 50-question exercise, tests the aptitude of draft prospects. The official results of the tests are distributed by the NFL to the 32 teams after the combine, with scores occasionally leaking out. Other noteworthy QB scores that have been reported in the past: Ryan Fitzpatrick (Harvard) 49, QB Matthew Stafford (Georgia) 38, QB Mark Sanchez (28), Michael Vick (20) and Vince Young (15, after getting a 6 on first attempt).
Click to expand...
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/nfl_trac...01361?eref=sihp
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The NFL needs to review their security policy because these 'heavily guarded scores' seem to be leaking every year.

 
bigern1000 said:
Sweet Love said:
Jason Wood said:
bigern1000 said:
Fitzpatrick (Ivy boy) = 49

Claussen (Notre Dame, highly-regarded academic institution) = 23

Hmmmm... :confused:
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The best basketball player at Penn in generations got less than a 900 on his SATs, but still got into a school that supposedly didn't lower its standards for athletes. :) It happens.
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Michael Jordan?
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I was thinking either Allen or Bowman, but Jordan was one helluva player in the late 90s...
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didnt Jordan go to UNC? Tar Heels...
 
ookook said:
Performance in any job is a complicted thing affected by many, many variables. One is cognitive ability. For many jobs, physical abilities don't matter so much. For an NFL QB, they do. More than cognitive ability to be sure. But performance is determined by a compensatory model and there is still a linear relationship between Wonderlic scores and QB performance. It should just be given much less weight than the tangible things like arm strength and accuracy. But ALL ELSE being equal (andit never is) give me the smarter QB as there are a lot of decisions to be made based on limited iniformation.
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Really?Eli vs. Peyton?
 
Psychopav said:
ookook said:
Performance in any job is a complicted thing affected by many, many variables. One is cognitive ability. For many jobs, physical abilities don't matter so much. For an NFL QB, they do. More than cognitive ability to be sure. But performance is determined by a compensatory model and there is still a linear relationship between Wonderlic scores and QB performance. It should just be given much less weight than the tangible things like arm strength and accuracy. But ALL ELSE being equal (andit never is) give me the smarter QB as there are a lot of decisions to be made based on limited iniformation.
Click to expand...
Really?Eli vs. Peyton?
Click to expand...
Really. Which part of "all else being equal" gave you a miss? Do you believe they have the same physical talent, experience, and work ethic?
 
49erBamBam52 said:
bigern1000 said:
Sweet Love said:
Jason Wood said:
bigern1000 said:
Fitzpatrick (Ivy boy) = 49

Claussen (Notre Dame, highly-regarded academic institution) = 23

Hmmmm... :)
Click to expand...
The best basketball player at Penn in generations got less than a 900 on his SATs, but still got into a school that supposedly didn't lower its standards for athletes. :) It happens.
Click to expand...
Michael Jordan?
Click to expand...
I was thinking either Allen or Bowman, but Jordan was one helluva player in the late 90s...
Click to expand...
didnt Jordan go to UNC? Tar Heels...
Click to expand...
There really was a Penn player in the late 90s with the same name. Shorter than MJ, but still a nice player...
 
CaptainHook said:
throwing out wonderlics because mediocre QBs never highly touted as prospects scored well on them is pretty silly...Dan Marino with a 15 completely shocks me.I'm not sure that scoring super high puts you at an advantage but I definitely think anyone who socres under 20 has a pretty severe handicap to make up.
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Mariino sounds like a ####### so that is not surprising.
 
don't you get something like 5 points just for signing and turning it in?

some of these guys must be like a sack of hammers! :)

seriously, marino may not be book learned, but he seemed to have great instincts for the passing game (like a RB needs in a run game context), as well as among, if not the best and most prototypical physical skills for the position ever.

 
ookook said:
Psychopav said:
ookook said:
Performance in any job is a complicted thing affected by many, many variables. One is cognitive ability.

For many jobs, physical abilities don't matter so much. For an NFL QB, they do. More than cognitive ability to be sure.

But performance is determined by a compensatory model and there is still a linear relationship between Wonderlic scores and QB performance. It should just be given much less weight than the tangible things like arm strength and accuracy.

But ALL ELSE being equal (andit never is) give me the smarter QB as there are a lot of decisions to be made based on limited iniformation.
Click to expand...
Really?Eli vs. Peyton?
Click to expand...
Really. Which part of "all else being equal" gave you a miss? Do you believe they have the same physical talent, experience, and work ethic?
Click to expand...
You are a bit rude, aren't you?
 
While wonderlics are fun for laughing at the Vince Youngs and Frank Gores out there, I just don't see how a players ability to multiply fractions has anything to do with their ability to read defenses. Some people are good at math. Some people are good at writing. Some people are good at vocabulary. Some people are good at reading defenses. One doesn't necessarily correlate to the other in any way, shape, or form.

I get that the idea here is that you can take this information about quick decision making on a test about things that have nothing to do with football and extrapolate it out to their ability to make decisions in the game of football, but that seems like a pretty big leap to make and I haven't seen any data to support it. And at first glance, the data would seem to discredit it more than support it.

If there is any one noticeable pattern about wonderlic scores, it's that quarterbacks that do very well in it are more likely to be unsuccessful in the NFL. Now, that's probably correlation more than causation (mediocre talents are more likely to spend more time preparing for alternate avenues of making a living, so they're going to put more time into their education), but even that goes to show the extreme flaws in this testing method.

I mean, if you're going to try and test someone's ability to answer questions quickly under pressure and think it has any meaning, why not at least make them about football?

 
Do you seriously think a general intelligence test can't possibly have any bearing on how well a QB might be able to understand the game?

 
Another better measure would be for QBs to line up under center and then, with a pass rush coming, have the coach yell 2 numbers and have the QB throw to the WR wearing the sum of those 2 numbers.

 
TenTimes said:
Another better measure would be for QBs to line up under center and then, with a pass rush coming, have the coach yell 2 numbers and have the QB throw to the WR wearing the sum of those 2 numbers.
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LOL. That would be the best ever...
 
What does this mean for a QB playing well? Look at a typical offensive play, and let's forget performing well "under pressure", almost every QB falls apart when a NFL caliber DE is up his backside.

Walking up to the o-line to get under center, the QB has to check to see where the middle linebacker is so he can identify what the base defense "might be" for the o-line to make their blocking calls.

Then he checks both safeties for a cover-1, -2, -3 look.

Then the experienced QB's will check the depth that the cornerback have taken to identify man to man, press coverage or zone.

The best QB's can check the distance that the DE has between himself and the DT, if it is a 4-3 to tell him if they are playing run, if they play on rushing the QB, or even for a zone blitz look.

All of this and more is required of a QB while he still has to call the play, make adjustments, and get his RB's, TE's, and WR's in position.

There are so many tells that a defense can give to a very experienced QB and O-coordinator, that's why we see Peyton looking at the pictures on the sideline like a 13 year old looking at his first Playboy.

Now throw in 3-4's, combo looks, a 4-2-5 and we get to see how well a QB can trust his preparation and film study, process all of this very quickly, and then do the most important part for a QB (at least mentally)...quit thinking and trust your instincts. Their insticts are honed in practice, film study, and game play. The great ones have it and with coaching and playing time come to rely on it.

This is why I love watching Favre play...he may have the best instincts and feel for a game of any player ever, and he is usually right, but when he is wrong...watch out.

The Wonderlic can provide a team an idea on how quickly a QB processes simple information. Great for Akili Smith and Joey Harrington, unfortunately they couldn't get their heads out of the way to play the game naturally. Anyone who watches the CBS show gets the sense that Marino is on the wrong side of most jokes and doesn't even get it, but that vacuum inside of his head allowed him to play football with the prettiest release ever.

A true test for a player that plays with good instincts and has a natural feel for the position is the 2 minute drill. The great ones execute it like they are the only ones playing the game and that to me is a HUGE determining factor.

 
AngryPatriot said:
Tebow= simpleton. Reading NFL defenses= too hard. Run. Bench. Swaggart. Politics. Scandal. Redemption. Infommercial. Child support. Alcohol. Sobriety. Trailer. Happiness.
Click to expand...
LMAOThat's funny stuff right there!Bradford truly looks the part of a #1 overall QB.
 
css2373 said:
What does this mean for a QB playing well? Look at a typical offensive play, and let's forget performing well "under pressure", almost every QB falls apart when a NFL caliber DE is up his backside.Walking up to the o-line to get under center, the QB has to check to see where the middle linebacker is so he can identify what the base defense "might be" for the o-line to make their blocking calls.Then he checks both safeties for a cover-1, -2, -3 look. Then the experienced QB's will check the depth that the cornerback have taken to identify man to man, press coverage or zone.The best QB's can check the distance that the DE has between himself and the DT, if it is a 4-3 to tell him if they are playing run, if they play on rushing the QB, or even for a zone blitz look.All of this and more is required of a QB while he still has to call the play, make adjustments, and get his RB's, TE's, and WR's in position. There are so many tells that a defense can give to a very experienced QB and O-coordinator, that's why we see Peyton looking at the pictures on the sideline like a 13 year old looking at his first Playboy.Now throw in 3-4's, combo looks, a 4-2-5 and we get to see how well a QB can trust his preparation and film study, process all of this very quickly, and then do the most important part for a QB (at least mentally)...quit thinking and trust your instincts. Their insticts are honed in practice, film study, and game play. The great ones have it and with coaching and playing time come to rely on it. This is why I love watching Favre play...he may have the best instincts and feel for a game of any player ever, and he is usually right, but when he is wrong...watch out.The Wonderlic can provide a team an idea on how quickly a QB processes simple information. Great for Akili Smith and Joey Harrington, unfortunately they couldn't get their heads out of the way to play the game naturally. Anyone who watches the CBS show gets the sense that Marino is on the wrong side of most jokes and doesn't even get it, but that vacuum inside of his head allowed him to play football with the prettiest release ever.A true test for a player that plays with good instincts and has a natural feel for the position is the 2 minute drill. The great ones execute it like they are the only ones playing the game and that to me is a HUGE determining factor.
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Ice man vs Maverick. The latter probably would score 20 on the Wonderlic. The former, high 30s. Do you want a gunslinger or pure system QB?
 
Two Deep said:
The average score for 30 quarterbacks slated as NFL starters in 2010 is at 28.5, according to the Post report, which cites an unnamed NFL source. The average score among the past seven Super Bowl winning QBs is a 30.1.
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OK, this means nothing to me. What are you trying to say? And aren't there 32 startng QBs in the league?
 
3nOut said:
Two Deep said:
The average score for 30 quarterbacks slated as NFL starters in 2010 is at 28.5, according to the Post report, which cites an unnamed NFL source. The average score among the past seven Super Bowl winning QBs is a 30.1.
Click to expand...
OK, this means nothing to me. What are you trying to say? And aren't there 32 startng QBs in the league?
Click to expand...
You should have read the article instead of the Cliff Notes version.Unknown: Matt Cassel, Matt Moore

 
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