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WR Martavis Bryant, WAS (2 Viewers)

Bayhawks said:
Cheesedawg said:
You really are the master of the straw man argument, aren't you?
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I'm the master of the straw man? Right. I said Bryant was benefiting from PITTSBURGH'S offensive increase, and you change that and say

"It is HIS offensive production which is earning him more snaps!" as if I said Bryant wasn't producing, or that he wasn't earning more snaps.

What I said was that his numbers were the result of Pittsburgh's offensive explosion, not the impetus for them, but you are trying to create an argument over a point I didn't make. There's your straw-man, that YOU created.

BTW-if you look at his snap percentage, it is the same snap percentage as J Brown was getting as the #3 WR before he got benched for Bryant. Bryant has stepped into J Brown's role & has taken those snaps from him. He has done very well with them, and as such, he has earned (IMO) more playing time. But, he has not been the impetus for the Steelers' offensive explosion, rather he has benefited from it. That is my point. If you want to discuss that, fine, but don't create any more straw-men because you can't rationally discuss the actual point.
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Hey Scarecrow,

Numbers don't explode. Players explode. They don't just hand out stats to people. Bryant's emergence coincides with Pittsburgh's surge, but you are acting like these stats just get generated by a computer, giving no credit to the player and acting like this is all a coincidence.

There are 11 players on the field. No single player gets all the credit when a unit changes direction and improves dramatically. But make no mistake, Bryant is a big factor in the Steelers' reversal of fortune. Also, subtracting snaps from an unproductive player like Wheaton has helped.

Do you actually ever watch football or do you just look at the box score after the game?

 
ETA for Bayhawks to be in here to tell us that Pit won't be playing from behind most games so don't expect this every week... 3 2 1.

 
mnmplayer said:
And Ben didn't throw for 6 TDs, yet somehow he was productive. :blush:
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That is impossible. Bryant is simply a product of the increased production of the Steeler offense. So when they only score one TD in a road game, Bryant must surely disappear!

I don't even want to hear about garbage time stuff, like those stats don't count. Ben also took a couple of other shots at him downfield where Bryant was open for deep passes but Ben misfired. This kid is no joke. Could have had close to 200 yards and multiple TD's.

Haven't seen the snap counts yet but Wheaton got 7 targets, caught 4, generated 41 yards, had a long gain of 12, and failed to score. And also angered his QB by going the wrong way multiple times. Bryant averaged over 20 yards per target.

How is everything working out for you, Scarecrow?

 
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So when you have 4 WR1 double digit performances with 6 TDs in your first 4 games of your career playing less than 50% of the snaps what does that make you Bayhawks??? A product of Ben?

 
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mnmplayer said:
So when you have 4 WR1 performances in your first 4 games of your career playing less than 50% of the snaps what does that make you Bayhawks??? A product of Ben?
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Who did this? See I hate when people exaggerate because it kind of mutes your point. His first week he got 2 for 40 and a touchdown. That's not WR1 numbers.

 
Sabertooth said:
mnmplayer said:
So when you have 4 WR1 performances in your first 4 games of your career playing less than 50% of the snaps what does that make you Bayhawks??? A product of Ben?
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Who did this? See I hate when people exaggerate because it kind of mutes your point. His first week he got 2 for 40 and a touchdown. That's not WR1 numbers.
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Depends on your scoring system but it isn't far from it in most.

 
Sabertooth said:
mnmplayer said:
So when you have 4 WR1 performances in your first 4 games of your career playing less than 50% of the snaps what does that make you Bayhawks??? A product of Ben?
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Who did this? See I hate when people exaggerate because it kind of mutes your point. His first week he got 2 for 40 and a touchdown. That's not WR1 numbers.
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In my league that was WR1, but ok WR2+, it was double digits.

 
Rotoworld:

Martavis Bryant caught four passes for 143 yards with one touchdown in Sunday's Week 10 loss to the Jets.

Bryant was a rotational player once again, playing about half the snaps as expected. When the Steelers were forced to go back to their no-huddle, he was not on the field as the rookie does not know the offense well enough. But the day was saved in garbage time as Bryant outran a Jets secondary that had given up on the play for an 80-yard bomb. He'll be a boom-or-bust WR3 against the Titans in Week 11.

Nov 9 - 5:09 PM
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Had my hopes he would come down to earth so I could grab him cheaper. Might be waiting one hell of a long time for that now.

 
I want to see this guy's production with 90%+ of the snaps. Maybe next year, or maybe after the bye? A man can dream I guess.

 
Last 4 weeks he is WR7 in my league, 17.74/game, good enough for WR1 material. Not bad for your first 4 games rook.

 
People are going to downgrade him because they say the 80yd td was a fluke, but he still made a play and kept working while Ben shook free...He had another goaline look I believe and this was a down day for the Steelers. He still produced. Excited for the future...

 
Yeah with his long speed & big target combo he is a TD magnet, he kept his college/pro 1 TD per every 4 catch avg. going strong today, and yes that RZ look was nice to see.

 
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Not sure if it was mentioned earlier:

Watching the second half on DVR and Ben badly under threw Martavis when he was behind the defense for a 76-yard TD.

And a drop on a 15-yard out pattern.

Could have been an even bigger game.

 
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I'm in. Don't see how you can pull him at this point. I've got him in two leagues.

One league he's in over Desean Jackson (short benches)

The other he's in over Sanu, Cooks, and Robinson.

Both leagues I own him in I also own Antonio Brown...don't like starting two from the same team but I guess it's a good problem to have.

 
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Gvindy said:
People are going to downgrade him because they say the 80yd td was a fluke, but he still made a play and kept working while Ben shook free...He had another goaline look I believe and this was a down day for the Steelers. He still produced. Excited for the future...
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On the contrary, the fact that he got 5 yards behind a PREVENT DEFENSE tells you about his speed. Their whole defense on that play was built around not allowing the big play, and he went 80. Pretty impressive!

He beat double coverage for a 45 yard jump-ball catch too, although he admittedly got away with a push.

BTW, his snap count percentage is up to 58% and climbing each week. :drive:

 
Gvindy said:
People are going to downgrade him because they say the 80yd td was a fluke, but he still made a play and kept working while Ben shook free...He had another goaline look I believe and this was a down day for the Steelers. He still produced. Excited for the future...
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Jordy Nelson had games like that in his breakout year too. I remember he saved one day with a late game 90 yard TD scamper when he was basically shutout otherwise.

Bryant is efficient with his touches.

 
Bryant only has 24 targets on the season. He's amassed 310 yds and 6 TDs on those targets. Pretty incredible.

 
I Am the Stig said:
Gvindy said:
People are going to downgrade him because they say the 80yd td was a fluke, but he still made a play and kept working while Ben shook free...He had another goaline look I believe and this was a down day for the Steelers. He still produced. Excited for the future...
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Jordy Nelson had games like that in his breakout year too. I remember he saved one day with a late game 90 yard TD scamper when he was basically shutout otherwise. Bryant is efficient with his touches.
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4 out of 6 of his Tds came before the 4th quarter. Even if you discount yesterday's td, 5/6 were of the non garbage time variety. Unless the player gets 80 to 100 percent of his points in garbage time I really wouldn't worry about it. This is more of a guy that is already productive just getting his in garbage time too.

Besides, the pit D was already ranked in the bottom half of the league last week and nothing from this game is leading me to think they've improved so stage is set for Ben to need to throw more than in the past anyway as they are giving up way more points than typical pit d. This is the worst pit d in Ben's career so they could be playing from behind a lot this year when Ben doesn't throw for 6 TDs ... and when he does throw for early tds Bryant is proving to have the lion's share of those too. The rest of the Pitt WR core are complete munchkins, he's the only one above 5 11" that sees the field. Oh and if you didn't see it yesterday, he has the speed to score 80+ yarders too. Td magnet.

 
Before Bryant set foot on the field in week 7, Ben has thrown for 8 TDs in 6 games, 1.3/game. Since Bryant has set foot on the field, Ben has thrown for 15 TDs in 4 games (3.75 per game). 6 of those, or 40% have gone to Bryant. If you toss out Bryant's TDs Ben has still thrown for 9 in 4 games (2.3/game). In two of those games Ben threw for 6 TDs each, the other two he threw for 2 & 1TD (total of 3), yet Bryant was still productive in both of those games where "Ben did not throw 6 TDs". So the "Ben won't throw 6 TDs every game" crowd is right, however their insinuation that Bryant would somehow not be productive in games where "Ben did not throw 6 TDs" is clearly wrong.

To those that still think that Bryant is just a "product of Ben's prowess", how do you explain the 2 games where Ben threw for 1.5 TDs per game and Bryant caught 66% of those TDs from Ben? Draw your own conclusions, but you would have to be hard headed to not change your stance and admit that Bryant has something to do with the uptick in productivity over the past 4 games when he was turned from bench warmer to active player. It's scary to think that he still hasn't been fully unleashed yet. Being a rookie and still raw, they are not yet comfortable with him in the two minute offense and this has limited his production potential, as everyone knows the two minute offense is a staple for stud WRs to feed, and who wouldn't think this guy lined up opposite Antonio Brown would be more effective than Wheaton? Are there any left? Wheaton has a year's worth of experience over Bryant in knowing the system, but I don't see him keeping Bryant off the field long term.

When you consider he is playing roughly 50% of the snaps through these 4 games, he has only played snaps that equate to two full games! In that time he has 14/310/6 (22.1 ypc) playing the snap count equivalent of 8 quarters. Who's left to convince? In my mind no other rookie has made a bigger splash in productivity or put another way he is the most efficient producer, but this was muted under the Ben throwing for 6 TDs thing. Let's slow the roll a little bit and know that bad games will come, its a small sample size and we know most rookies are not consistent producers, but the chance is still there that we might have found one in Martavis Bryant, as you look at how he has done it, with his elite measurables and ideal situation, there is a chance for greatness.

 
No way he can sustain these TDs with the number of targets. I like him, but don't expect the last few weeks production.

 
ponchsox said:
No way he can sustain these TDs with the number of targets. I like him, but don't expect the last few weeks production.
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I don't think anyone believes the TD are sustainable. I think what people are hoping for is that the production simply leads to earning more involvement in the offense going forward.

 
Jack White said:
Not sure if it was mentioned earlier:

Watching the second half on DVR and Ben badly under threw Martavis when he was behind the defense for a 76-yard TD.

And a drop on a 15-yard out pattern.

Could have been an even bigger game.
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He was the target on the INT Roeth threw in the EZ too, IIRC.

 
ponchsox said:
No way he can sustain these TDs with the number of targets. I like him, but don't expect the last few weeks production.
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There is no way he could even if his targets increased to 10-12/game, I don't think anyone is saying that a 1.5TDs per game rate, a 24TD/yr pace is sustainable for a rookie, let alone a HOF player. Moss is the all time leader at 23 and Rice had 22, so no. But it does highlight how big of a splash he has made.

 
One thing that is different about Bryant vs Watkins, Beckham, Benjamin and Evans is that all of them are either being covered by the #1 CB or will be soon. Bryant will always have the #2 on him with Brown on the other side.

6'4", 4.42 (official combine) speed and covered by the #2 CB, QB is Big Ben and he gets the experience of Antonio Brown. The only thing that concerns me with this guy is the consistency of his hands and so far I'll take what I've seen.

 
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