WR Martavis Bryant, WAS (2 Viewers)

[Cheesedawg]

One thing that is different about Bryant vs Watkins, Beckham, Benjamin and Evans is that all of them are either being covered by the #1 CB or will be soon. Bryant will always have the #2 on him with Brown on the other side.

6'4", 4.42 (official combine) speed and covered by the #2 CB, QB is Big Ben and he gets the experience of Antonio Brown. The only thing that concerns me with this guy is the consistency of his hands and so far I'll take what I've seen.

He just runs away from corners. Looks like he plays even faster than his 40 time. On the 80 yarder, he just ran away.

 

[mnmplayer]

This guys resting stride is faster than the corner Adams who was working hard to keep pace, and when Ben launches it and Bryant turns on the speed to track that ball down Adams stumbles and almost falls down trying to keep pace, it was like watching a dog try to keep up with a thoroughbred horse when the horse turns it on for the last leg. Adams was already redlining before Bryant even started his burst and he is pulling away from Adams as he is tracking to the ball. Adams runs a 4.5 so I assume that is roughly what Bryant runs at his "resting stride".

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000425198/Wk-10-Can-t-Miss-Play-M-80-explosion

The way he was pulling away from Adams so easily indicates that he probably can run a sub 4.4 under ideal conditions.

"Clemson wide receiver Martavis Bryant runs an unofficial 4.34 in the 40-yard dash."

http://www.49ers.com/video/videos/WR-Martavis-Bryant-Runs-Sub-440-in-40-yard-Dash/0d12c0af-fcb4-496a-9ae6-c257b8c6fd93

He ran a career-best time of 10.62 seconds in the 100 meters. So he can maintain burst for the entire length of the field. A lot of athlete's 40 times reflect an instant burst that cannot be sustained for the length of the field. I see this all the time with RBs that seem to be pulling away from corners during the first 40 yards, then their burst is gone and they get caught from behind. Not this kid. LOOOOOOOOOONG SPEED.

ETA: He also won the 200 meters at the 2010 Region 1-4A Meet, recording a personal-best time of 21.46 seconds. So that's the length of over two football fields he is maintaining his speed.

 

[lod01]

This guys resting stride is faster than the corner Adams who was working hard to keep pace, and when Ben launches it and Bryant turns on the speed to track that ball down Adams stumbles and almost falls down trying to keep pace, it was like watching a dog try to keep up with a thoroughbred horse when the horse turns it on for the last leg. Adams was already redlining before Bryant even started his burst and he is pulling away from Adams as he is tracking to the ball. Adams runs a 4.5 so I assume that is roughly what Bryant runs at his "resting stride".

I noticed that too on the replay where they showed Bryant running his route. He looked like he was jogging. Once the ball was in the air, Bryant simply put it in another gear and ran away from the defense.

 

[BroadwayG]

Is this guy tradable in dynasty?

 

[cstu]

This guys resting stride is faster than the corner Adams who was working hard to keep pace, and when Ben launches it and Bryant turns on the speed to track that ball down Adams stumbles and almost falls down trying to keep pace, it was like watching a dog try to keep up with a thoroughbred horse when the horse turns it on for the last leg. Adams was already redlining before Bryant even started his burst and he is pulling away from Adams as he is tracking to the ball. Adams runs a 4.5 so I assume that is roughly what Bryant runs at his "resting stride".

I noticed that too on the replay where they showed Bryant running his route. He looked like he was jogging. Once the ball was in the air, Bryant simply put it in another gear and ran away from the defense.

Randy Moss-esque.

 

[mnmplayer]

Randy Moss-esque.

I wouldn't have dared said that 4 games into his career, but I sure won't argue with somebody else saying it!

 

[Alonzo Mosely]

Gotta move some WRs.

Have him behind CJ, Julio, Sanders, Sanu, and soon Gordon. Can start 3 plus a flex.

 

[flapgreen]

Everyone loves Gordon but I don't. One strike away. Can't let go of a guy like Bryant now. You would get a lot put of a guy like Gordon due to potential. Just my opinion

 

[Cheesedawg]

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Even though clearly it was a product of the system, Ben's swag, coincidence, and a small sample (which represents a quarter-season now and the entirety of Bryant's NFL experience), so I'm sure he will suck the rest of his life because Scarecrow is so much smarter than everyone else.

 

[Jack White]

Is this guy tradable in dynasty?

I traded McCoy for him last week in a modified keeper league. I can keep him next year, while McCoy is not a keeper.

Not straight up, but as part of a 4-for4 deal.

I couldn't be happier.

 

[Bayhawks]

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Even though clearly it was a product of the system, Ben's swag, coincidence, and a small sample (which represents a quarter-season now and the entirety of Bryant's NFL experience), so I'm sure he will suck the rest of his life because Scarecrow is so much smarter than everyone else.

Until he got a garbage time TD, he had put up 63 yards. As I said, when Pitt's offense wasn't putting up huge numbers, he was a WR2/WR3, not the WR1 stud that some in this thread were claiming he was. That being said, you can't take the long TD away; it counts, and he caught it.

That being said, for someone who wants to make ignorant comments like "do you actually watch football, or just look at box scores," you make some dumb comments:

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Either you don't understand what a prevent D is, or you don't know how to watch football.

A prevent D is a zone defense, almost always with 3 men dividing the deep 3rd of the field. That wasn't the case on Bryant's TD. Either the CB on him was in man coverage & lost Bryant as he went across the field, or the Jets weren't in a prevent D, because there was no man patrolling the deep middle or the other deep 3rd of the field.

So, it either wasn't a prevent defense, as you want to think, or there was a blown assignment, as you don't want to think happened. I'm inclined to think it was a prevent D, and the deep middle and/or other deep 3rd defender blew their responsibilities & got sucked upfield, but I don' t know that, because I'm not privy to the Jets D calls. Either way, your desire to see the positives about Bryant is clouding your perception.

That being said, Bryant seems to be a focus of the Steelers in the RZ. The first INT was on a target to him, and I think I saw one other target for him down there (when you consider how futile the offense looked yesterday, those targets are impressive to me). Since Bryant will benefit from never (barring injury to Brown) have to face the other teams #1 CB (at least, not all game), I'd view him more as a high-end WR2 than WR2/WR3 guy from here on out.

He does need to improve his route-running, however. The INT at the goal-line wasn't his fault (poor throw), but he didnt' run a very good route. He was supposed to sell the outside move (flat or corner), but he made a very poor fake, then cut inside. The Jet CB didn't even react to the fake, and maintained his inside position, making his defense of the pass much easier. This, IMO, is one of the easier "fixes" for young WRs. They can learn good route-running, but they can't learn height, speed, hands, etc. Especially working with WRs like Brown and Lance Moore, he should be able to improve his route running.

Another concern for me, is how the Steelers react to this loss. When they were throwing the ball 40+ times and winning, you don't hear many complaints around here. Now that they've lost, using that gameplan, there is already talk on talk radio around town that with a more run-centered game plan, they could have won the Jets game. The rationale being that 3 of the 4 TOs came during pass plays, and the Jets game should have been an easy win, they didn't have to take the chance by throwing the ball as much as they did. The Steelers have always favored the run, and Steelers fans always call for "pounding the ball." If they Steelers change their offensive approach, Bryant's value will drop (albeit less than I had previously thought it would, IMO).

BTW-how about you grow up and stop with the name-calling? It's juvenile and makes you look silly.

 

[I Am the Stig]

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Even though clearly it was a product of the system, Ben's swag, coincidence, and a small sample (which represents a quarter-season now and the entirety of Bryant's NFL experience), so I'm sure he will suck the rest of his life because Scarecrow is so much smarter than everyone else.

Until he got a garbage time TD, he had put up 63 yards. As I said, when Pitt's offense wasn't putting up huge numbers, he was a WR2/WR3, not the WR1 stud that some in this thread were claiming he was. That being said, you can't take the long TD away; it counts, and he caught it.That being said, for someone who wants to make ignorant comments like "do you actually watch football, or just look at box scores," you make some dumb comments:

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Either you don't understand what a prevent D is, or you don't know how to watch football.

A prevent D is a zone defense, almost always with 3 men dividing the deep 3rd of the field. That wasn't the case on Bryant's TD. Either the CB on him was in man coverage & lost Bryant as he went across the field, or the Jets weren't in a prevent D, because there was no man patrolling the deep middle or the other deep 3rd of the field.

So, it either wasn't a prevent defense, as you want to think, or there was a blown assignment, as you don't want to think happened. I'm inclined to think it was a prevent D, but the deep middle and/or other deep 3rd defender got sucked upfield, but I don' t know that, because I'm not privy to the Jets D calls. Either way, your desire to see the positives about Bryant is clouding your perception.

That being said, Bryant seems to be a focus of the Steelers in the RZ. The first INT was on a target to him, and I think I saw one other target for him down there (when you consider how futile the offense looked yesterday, those targets are impressive to me). Since Bryant will benefit from never (barring injury to Brown) have to face the other teams #1 CB (at least, not all game), I'd view him more as a high-end WR2 than WR2/WR3 guy from here on out.

He does need to improve his route-running, however. The INT at the goal-line wasn't his fault (poor throw), but he didnt' run a very good route. He was supposed to sell the outside move (flat or corner), but he made a very poor fake, then cut inside. The Jet CB didn't even react to the fake, and maintained his inside position, making his defense of the pass much easier. This, IMO, is one of the easier "fixes" for young WRs. They can learn good route-running, but they can't learn height, speed, hands, etc. Especially working with WRs like Brown and Lance Moore, he should be able to improve his route running.

Another concern for me, is how the Steelers react to this loss. When they were throwing the ball 40+ times and winning, you don't hear many complaints around here. Now that they've lost, using that gameplan, there is already talk on talk radio around town that with a more run-centered game plan, they could have won the Jets game. The rationale being that 3 of the 4 TOs came during pass plays, and the Jets game should have been an easy win, they didn't have to take the chance by throwing the ball as much as they did. The Steelers have always favored the run, and Steelers fans always call for "pounding the ball." If they Steelers change their offensive approach, Bryant's value will drop (albeit less than I had previously thought it would, IMO).

BTW-how about you grow up and stop with the name-calling? It's juvenile and makes you look silly.

The interception in the end zone wasn't due to a poor route. The ball was thrown well. It was due to his tendency to catch with his body and not his hands. He tried to cradle the ball in versus reaching out and catching the ball.

 

[Bayhawks]

The interception in the end zone wasn't due to a poor route. The ball was thrown well. It was due to his tendency to catch with his body and not his hands. He tried to cradle the ball in versus reaching out and catching the ball.

The pass was a little inside, and I do think he was trying to body catch the ball (he had his hands extended, but his palms were facing up, not out, like he was going to catch it with his body), but the ball never got there, b/c the CB had inside position and knocked it away. Watch the route he ran. He doesn't sell the outside stem move at all. He gives a little hip shift to the outside, but he doesn't turn his shoulders or head at all, thus showing that he was going inside the entire way. The CB never moved off of his inside position. You want to make the CB respect the outside threat, then cross his body to take the pass. It also looks like he broke the route off a little early, maybe a yard or 2 earlier than he should have. It was a double post play on the left side. Miller was running a post route from the end of the line, and Bryant was supposed to run a post route, with an outside stem. If Bryant hadn't broken his route off early, Miller would have have another step or two to make the ILB and safety honor the threat he presented. As it was, because Bryant didn't really present the outside stem move, and because he broke the route off too soon, the ILB and safety were still in close proximity. When the ball was knocked up in the air, the safety was close enough to make the diving INT.

Again, it's a small thing, and one that I think can be easily fixed. Bryant seemed to be a focus in the RZ, and if Pittsburgh doesn't revert back to a more run-based offense, he should be a strong WR2.

 

[Cheesedawg]

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Even though clearly it was a product of the system, Ben's swag, coincidence, and a small sample (which represents a quarter-season now and the entirety of Bryant's NFL experience), so I'm sure he will suck the rest of his life because Scarecrow is so much smarter than everyone else.

Until he got a garbage time TD, he had put up 63 yards. As I said, when Pitt's offense wasn't putting up huge numbers, he was a WR2/WR3, not the WR1 stud that some in this thread were claiming he was. That being said, you can't take the long TD away; it counts, and he caught it.

That being said, for someone who wants to make ignorant comments like "do you actually watch football, or just look at box scores," you make some dumb comments:

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Either you don't understand what a prevent D is, or you don't know how to watch football.

A prevent D is a zone defense, almost always with 3 men dividing the deep 3rd of the field. That wasn't the case on Bryant's TD. Either the CB on him was in man coverage & lost Bryant as he went across the field, or the Jets weren't in a prevent D, because there was no man patrolling the deep middle or the other deep 3rd of the field.

So, it either wasn't a prevent defense, as you want to think, or there was a blown assignment, as you don't want to think happened. I'm inclined to think it was a prevent D, and the deep middle and/or other deep 3rd defender blew their responsibilities & got sucked upfield, but I don' t know that, because I'm not privy to the Jets D calls. Either way, your desire to see the positives about Bryant is clouding your perception.

That being said, Bryant seems to be a focus of the Steelers in the RZ. The first INT was on a target to him, and I think I saw one other target for him down there (when you consider how futile the offense looked yesterday, those targets are impressive to me). Since Bryant will benefit from never (barring injury to Brown) have to face the other teams #1 CB (at least, not all game), I'd view him more as a high-end WR2 than WR2/WR3 guy from here on out.

He does need to improve his route-running, however. The INT at the goal-line wasn't his fault (poor throw), but he didnt' run a very good route. He was supposed to sell the outside move (flat or corner), but he made a very poor fake, then cut inside. The Jet CB didn't even react to the fake, and maintained his inside position, making his defense of the pass much easier. This, IMO, is one of the easier "fixes" for young WRs. They can learn good route-running, but they can't learn height, speed, hands, etc. Especially working with WRs like Brown and Lance Moore, he should be able to improve his route running.

Another concern for me, is how the Steelers react to this loss. When they were throwing the ball 40+ times and winning, you don't hear many complaints around here. Now that they've lost, using that gameplan, there is already talk on talk radio around town that with a more run-centered game plan, they could have won the Jets game. The rationale being that 3 of the 4 TOs came during pass plays, and the Jets game should have been an easy win, they didn't have to take the chance by throwing the ball as much as they did. The Steelers have always favored the run, and Steelers fans always call for "pounding the ball." If they Steelers change their offensive approach, Bryant's value will drop (albeit less than I had previously thought it would, IMO).

BTW-how about you grow up and stop with the name-calling? It's juvenile and makes you look silly.

What is silly and juvenile, Scarecrow, is you continuously telling people how they think. The straw men just keep on coming. You tell me what I think, then attack that position.

All anybody needs to know about your football knowledge is that you listened to talk radio and, because of that, are worried that the Steelers will change their pass-first approach. Who gives a damn about what the fans on your favorite radio talk shows call for?

You have done your best to parse and minimize every achievement by Bryant, including asserting that he was not a WR1 stud this week despite his 143 yards and a TD. Even calling his TD "garbage time" is dumb...they cut it to a one-score game by beating the prevent D with an 80 pass with over a minute to play. That isn't garbage time, but your reasoning is garbage, so you have that going for you. Bryant was much closer to 200+ yards and multiple TD's than he was to being a WR3 as you say.

 

[Bayhawks]

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Even though clearly it was a product of the system, Ben's swag, coincidence, and a small sample (which represents a quarter-season now and the entirety of Bryant's NFL experience), so I'm sure he will suck the rest of his life because Scarecrow is so much smarter than everyone else.

Until he got a garbage time TD, he had put up 63 yards. As I said, when Pitt's offense wasn't putting up huge numbers, he was a WR2/WR3, not the WR1 stud that some in this thread were claiming he was. That being said, you can't take the long TD away; it counts, and he caught it.

That being said, for someone who wants to make ignorant comments like "do you actually watch football, or just look at box scores," you make some dumb comments:

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Either you don't understand what a prevent D is, or you don't know how to watch football.

A prevent D is a zone defense, almost always with 3 men dividing the deep 3rd of the field. That wasn't the case on Bryant's TD. Either the CB on him was in man coverage & lost Bryant as he went across the field, or the Jets weren't in a prevent D, because there was no man patrolling the deep middle or the other deep 3rd of the field.

So, it either wasn't a prevent defense, as you want to think, or there was a blown assignment, as you don't want to think happened. I'm inclined to think it was a prevent D, and the deep middle and/or other deep 3rd defender blew their responsibilities & got sucked upfield, but I don' t know that, because I'm not privy to the Jets D calls. Either way, your desire to see the positives about Bryant is clouding your perception.

That being said, Bryant seems to be a focus of the Steelers in the RZ. The first INT was on a target to him, and I think I saw one other target for him down there (when you consider how futile the offense looked yesterday, those targets are impressive to me). Since Bryant will benefit from never (barring injury to Brown) have to face the other teams #1 CB (at least, not all game), I'd view him more as a high-end WR2 than WR2/WR3 guy from here on out.

He does need to improve his route-running, however. The INT at the goal-line wasn't his fault (poor throw), but he didnt' run a very good route. He was supposed to sell the outside move (flat or corner), but he made a very poor fake, then cut inside. The Jet CB didn't even react to the fake, and maintained his inside position, making his defense of the pass much easier. This, IMO, is one of the easier "fixes" for young WRs. They can learn good route-running, but they can't learn height, speed, hands, etc. Especially working with WRs like Brown and Lance Moore, he should be able to improve his route running.

Another concern for me, is how the Steelers react to this loss. When they were throwing the ball 40+ times and winning, you don't hear many complaints around here. Now that they've lost, using that gameplan, there is already talk on talk radio around town that with a more run-centered game plan, they could have won the Jets game. The rationale being that 3 of the 4 TOs came during pass plays, and the Jets game should have been an easy win, they didn't have to take the chance by throwing the ball as much as they did. The Steelers have always favored the run, and Steelers fans always call for "pounding the ball." If they Steelers change their offensive approach, Bryant's value will drop (albeit less than I had previously thought it would, IMO).

BTW-how about you grow up and stop with the name-calling? It's juvenile and makes you look silly.

What is silly and juvenile, Scarecrow, is you continuously telling people how they think. The straw men just keep on coming. You tell me what I think, then attack that position.

All anybody needs to know about your football knowledge is that you listened to talk radio and, because of that, are worried that the Steelers will change their pass-first approach. Who gives a damn about what the fans on your favorite radio talk shows call for?

You have done your best to parse and minimize every achievement by Bryant, including asserting that he was not a WR1 stud this week despite his 143 yards and a TD. Even calling his TD "garbage time" is dumb...they cut it to a one-score game by beating the prevent D with an 80 pass with over a minute to play. That isn't garbage time, but your reasoning is garbage, so you have that going for you. Bryant was much closer to 200+ yards and multiple TD's than he was to being a WR3 as you say.

No, what is silly and juvenile is not being able to have a debate without resorting to name-calling. That's what a 5 year old does. That's what someone who can't make an intelligent argument does.

Again, you took one line I made and focus on that single comment, ignoring all else. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings when I said that you were letting your positive view of Bryant cloud the way you viewed the TD play. But having your feelings hurt doesn't change the fact that everything I posted is true (including the fact that I was wrong about Bryant being a WR2/WR3 type, and that he should actually be viewed as a strong WR2).

1-The TD was a garbage time TD. When there are 88 seconds left in a game, you're 80 yards from the EZ, you're down by two TDs, and you have only 1 TO left, that's garbage time.

2-You were wrong when you said he beat a prevent defense with no missed assignments from the D. There was no deep help for the Jets. Either they were playing man (which I doubt), not a prevent, or the deep help got sucked up toward the LOS (i.e.-blew their assigment). So, one way or the other, you were wrong. That being said, you were right when you said he was special; the speed he showed on that play can't be taught.

3-Bryant does seem to be a focus in the RZ, which is a big positive. The play where I discussed his poor route was designed for him; it wasn't a play where Ben just found him on his 3rd or 4th read. Heath was supposed to clear him some space; in time, if/when Bryant's route-running improves, he could be even more deadly down there.

4-His route-running isn't as good as it could be. You can argue that if you want, but it's the truth. Most rookies aren't polished route runners & it takes time in the NFL to perfect that part of their game. He has a couple of good teammates to help him in that area.

5-I never said anything about my football knowledge coming from local talk radio. I said that is what is on local talk radio, and historically, the Steelers have been a run-first team. They "retired" Arians because his offense wasn't enough of a running offense, and ownership expressed the last few years that they desire a more balanced offense. If that happens, Bryant's value will drop (as will all Pitt receivers). I also specifically said I don't think it would drop as much as I had previously thought.

If you would like to actually discuss the player and his situation, I'll be more than happy to continue, but unless you bring anything worth discussing (not childish name-calling and insults), I'll bow out of this conversation. Feel free to post some sophomoric comment so you can feel like you got the last word and "won."

 

[Cheesedawg]

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Even though clearly it was a product of the system, Ben's swag, coincidence, and a small sample (which represents a quarter-season now and the entirety of Bryant's NFL experience), so I'm sure he will suck the rest of his life because Scarecrow is so much smarter than everyone else.

Until he got a garbage time TD, he had put up 63 yards. As I said, when Pitt's offense wasn't putting up huge numbers, he was a WR2/WR3, not the WR1 stud that some in this thread were claiming he was. That being said, you can't take the long TD away; it counts, and he caught it.

That being said, for someone who wants to make ignorant comments like "do you actually watch football, or just look at box scores," you make some dumb comments:

When you beat a prevent defense easily with an 80 touchdown pass where there were no missed assignments from the D, you are special.

Either you don't understand what a prevent D is, or you don't know how to watch football.

A prevent D is a zone defense, almost always with 3 men dividing the deep 3rd of the field. That wasn't the case on Bryant's TD. Either the CB on him was in man coverage & lost Bryant as he went across the field, or the Jets weren't in a prevent D, because there was no man patrolling the deep middle or the other deep 3rd of the field.

So, it either wasn't a prevent defense, as you want to think, or there was a blown assignment, as you don't want to think happened. I'm inclined to think it was a prevent D, and the deep middle and/or other deep 3rd defender blew their responsibilities & got sucked upfield, but I don' t know that, because I'm not privy to the Jets D calls. Either way, your desire to see the positives about Bryant is clouding your perception.

That being said, Bryant seems to be a focus of the Steelers in the RZ. The first INT was on a target to him, and I think I saw one other target for him down there (when you consider how futile the offense looked yesterday, those targets are impressive to me). Since Bryant will benefit from never (barring injury to Brown) have to face the other teams #1 CB (at least, not all game), I'd view him more as a high-end WR2 than WR2/WR3 guy from here on out.

He does need to improve his route-running, however. The INT at the goal-line wasn't his fault (poor throw), but he didnt' run a very good route. He was supposed to sell the outside move (flat or corner), but he made a very poor fake, then cut inside. The Jet CB didn't even react to the fake, and maintained his inside position, making his defense of the pass much easier. This, IMO, is one of the easier "fixes" for young WRs. They can learn good route-running, but they can't learn height, speed, hands, etc. Especially working with WRs like Brown and Lance Moore, he should be able to improve his route running.

Another concern for me, is how the Steelers react to this loss. When they were throwing the ball 40+ times and winning, you don't hear many complaints around here. Now that they've lost, using that gameplan, there is already talk on talk radio around town that with a more run-centered game plan, they could have won the Jets game. The rationale being that 3 of the 4 TOs came during pass plays, and the Jets game should have been an easy win, they didn't have to take the chance by throwing the ball as much as they did. The Steelers have always favored the run, and Steelers fans always call for "pounding the ball." If they Steelers change their offensive approach, Bryant's value will drop (albeit less than I had previously thought it would, IMO).

BTW-how about you grow up and stop with the name-calling? It's juvenile and makes you look silly.

What is silly and juvenile, Scarecrow, is you continuously telling people how they think. The straw men just keep on coming. You tell me what I think, then attack that position.

All anybody needs to know about your football knowledge is that you listened to talk radio and, because of that, are worried that the Steelers will change their pass-first approach. Who gives a damn about what the fans on your favorite radio talk shows call for?

You have done your best to parse and minimize every achievement by Bryant, including asserting that he was not a WR1 stud this week despite his 143 yards and a TD. Even calling his TD "garbage time" is dumb...they cut it to a one-score game by beating the prevent D with an 80 pass with over a minute to play. That isn't garbage time, but your reasoning is garbage, so you have that going for you. Bryant was much closer to 200+ yards and multiple TD's than he was to being a WR3 as you say.

No, what is silly and juvenile is not being able to have a debate without resorting to name-calling. That's what a 5 year old does. That's what someone who can't make an intelligent argument does.

Again, you took one line I made and focus on that single comment, ignoring all else. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings when I said that you were letting your positive view of Bryant cloud the way you viewed the TD play. But having your feelings hurt doesn't change the fact that everything I posted is true (including the fact that I was wrong about Bryant being a WR2/WR3 type, and that he should actually be viewed as a strong WR2).

1-The TD was a garbage time TD. When there are 88 seconds left in a game, you're 80 yards from the EZ, you're down by two TDs, and you have only 1 TO left, that's garbage time.

2-You were wrong when you said he beat a prevent defense with no missed assignments from the D. There was no deep help for the Jets. Either they were playing man (which I doubt), not a prevent, or the deep help got sucked up toward the LOS (i.e.-blew their assigment). So, one way or the other, you were wrong. That being said, you were right when you said he was special; the speed he showed on that play can't be taught.

3-Bryant does seem to be a focus in the RZ, which is a big positive. The play where I discussed his poor route was designed for him; it wasn't a play where Ben just found him on his 3rd or 4th read. Heath was supposed to clear him some space; in time, if/when Bryant's route-running improves, he could be even more deadly down there.

4-His route-running isn't as good as it could be. You can argue that if you want, but it's the truth. Most rookies aren't polished route runners & it takes time in the NFL to perfect that part of their game. He has a couple of good teammates to help him in that area.

5-I never said anything about my football knowledge coming from local talk radio. I said that is what is on local talk radio, and historically, the Steelers have been a run-first team. They "retired" Arians because his offense wasn't enough of a running offense, and ownership expressed the last few years that they desire a more balanced offense. If that happens, Bryant's value will drop (as will all Pitt receivers). I also specifically said I don't think it would drop as much as I had previously thought.

If you would like to actually discuss the player and his situation, I'll be more than happy to continue, but unless you bring anything worth discussing (not childish name-calling and insults), I'll bow out of this conversation. Feel free to post some sophomoric comment so you can feel like you got the last word and "won."

Scarecrow fits you perfectly because you are constantly argumentative and you argue almost exclusively via the straw man, as others have pointed out. Don't think of it as name-calling, think of it as descriptive. You've earned it that description. I will apologize for describing you as a Scarecrow...to all scarecrows out there, who deserve to keep better company. Could have gone with Garbageman, because your conversations all over the forum are of the garbage-in, garbage-out variety.

You don't even know what garbage time is. Garbage time is when the outcome of the game has been decided and one team is just being allowed to dink and doink against soft defense and rack up misleading (albeit real) stats. This game wasn't decided. The Jets won by one touchdown! What a joke. Garbage in, garbage out.

No prevent D is designed to drop safeties 65 yards deep. Nor are DB's expected to cover for 8-10 seconds, especially not someone like Bryant. Ben bought enough time that Bryant's speed couldn't be contained. Jets dropped 7 and rushed four and Bryant couldn't be covered. Garbage in, garbage out. A defense designed to keep everything in front of them was unable to do so with Bryant.

I haven't said one word about his route-running. Another straw man. Garbage in, garbage out.

While you are panicking about Pittsburgh becoming a run-first team because you heard it on local talk radio and because the "fans always call for pounding the ball", nobody else is. Nobody else is paying attention to any opinions outside of their team complex. Using some ignorant fans' opinions as a justification for forecasting that the passing game could be doomed and value-loss is imminent is another form of a straw man argument. Garbage in, garbage out. There is zero chance that this is going to become a predominantly run-first team in 2014 no matter what your "experts" (your fans) are saying on talk radio.

I won! I won! I won! I won!

 

[Bayhawks]

So when you have 4 WR1 double digit performances with 6 TDs in your first 4 games of your career playing less than 50% of the snaps what does that make you Bayhawks??? A product of Ben?

As I've already posted, I under-estimated Bryant's force/role in the EZ. Even when the Steelers didn't get many shots down there, they targeted Bryant several times, and not just targets, but plays designed for him. After only 4 games, I'm not willing to call him a FF WR1, but he's not a WR2/WR3 type, like I'd believed, but more like a strong WR2.

I'm still concerned that the Steelers could revert back to more running in reaction to the Jets loss (which would impact ALL Pitt receivers), but I don't think Bryant will completely disappear if that were to happen.

 

[lod01]

So when you have 4 WR1 double digit performances with 6 TDs in your first 4 games of your career playing less than 50% of the snaps what does that make you Bayhawks??? A product of Ben?

As I've already posted, I under-estimated Bryant's force/role in the EZ. Even when the Steelers didn't get many shots down there, they targeted Bryant several times, and not just targets, but plays designed for him. After only 4 games, I'm not willing to call him a FF WR1, but he's not a WR2/WR3 type, like I'd believed, but more like a strong WR2.

I'm still concerned that the Steelers could revert back to more running in reaction to the Jets loss (which would impact ALL Pitt receivers), but I don't think Bryant will completely disappear if that were to happen.

He's coming around people! When Bryant is in, there is a good chance the ball will come his way and an even better chance if Ben scrambles. Near the EZ he will be in on almost every play simply because of his size. I like the fact that he is the #2 WR on the team. They aren't GB so it's not likely that he is a FF WR1. Certainly a WR2. He's my WR3.

 

[mnmplayer]

So during my lunch I see that Bayhawks listened to his Monday morning show before chiming in. It sounds like the hosts are warming to Bryant a little now that Bayhawks has softened stance, but I don't buy that they need to run the ball more, or that they didn't try to run the ball when they should have. Sounds like typical local radio time filling chatter.

And if you are going to call that 80 yard TD a blown assignment in prevent D (it wasn't), you still need to ask yourself why it happened? Was it because Brown was getting extra attention? Pause at the 45 second mark of this link http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/gamechannel?app=st&lid=187779&gid=331&tid=

Let's not lose focus here by arguing which coverage it was. Does it matter if he was facing prevent D and overpowered it with his speed or facing one on one coverage with the 2nd best corner on the team and burned him (which is what he will be facing most often)? He has the speed/height to produce under both situations Either way it supports the argument for Bryant scoring many more TDs in the future, but let's breakdown the play anyway just for fun.

In nickel coverage with bracket focus to Brown, Jets rushed 4, with 1 LB (#52) spying the left side of the field and one (#58) spying on the right side covering short routes, screens or run plays. Obviously these 6 defenders will not play a role in covering Bryant or Brown on this play as they are part of the pass rush and coving short routes/runs. that leaves 5 defenders. How are they utilized? Heath Miller is at the 35 yard line, middle of the field with 1 defender, Wheaton is at the 32 on the right side with 1 defender and this route is short enough that #58 is cheating towards him. That accounts for 8 defenders and leaves 3 defenders left to defend Brown and Bryant. Guess who got double covered? You can see if you pause at :47 Brown was near the 45 yard line on the right side with double coverage focus. Also you can see Brown is facing press coverage at the los to begin the play, so the deep defender also moved toward Brown on this play for bracket coverage. Don't be fooled into thinking this was a broken play with missed assignments on prevent D. #26 is running back towards the ball when Bryant catches it near the :50 mark, but Ben has released the ball 4 seconds ago so he has been running from his bracket coverage on Brown for 3-4 seconds already. As far as the play was concerned everybody was on assignment and covering the person they were supposed to be covering. Bryant just beat his defender so bad it looked like blown coverage to the laymen. He was left with one on one coverage. This is going to be the modus operandi going forward and a big reason why Bryant's situation is ideal. Not only will he be facing the 2nd best corner on each team, but he will be facing them in one on one deep routes that pay huge fantasy dividends. This isn't CAR where he is the WR1 and being double or triple covered on every play. You cant do that with Brown on the other side and Bell in the backfield catching short passes. You can;t take all three away. He is going to be facing the 2nd best corner in one on one coverage, guys like Adams who (runs a 4.5) was burned like a roman candle on July 4th.

Ben must be credited for this TD, as he extended the play, but he did miss Bryant badly on 2 other deep balls from the pocket so this makes up for those poor throws. Also when Bayhawks discounts Bryant as only having had 63 yards (he had an 8 yard screen pass play called back because of a Wheaton penalty which would have put him at 71 yards), Brown had 74. So please don't insinuate he wasn't producing up to WR1 standards for the team going into that last catch. He was pretty much matching Brown's yardage on the day before the 80 yard TD. This isn't a situation where Bryant got one late game target during a blowout late in the game for a lucky 80 yard TD. He had 1 RZ target on a costly turn over, and had two other high value targets on deep routes that were missed (2 were also hit), but pretty much the only offensive success yesterday was going through Bryant. If not for the 4 turnovers, all the WRs would have had more opps for yards/TDs at that point in the game.

So let's move on to the whole "they need to run the ball more" argument. The funny part about saying they should focus on the running game more is they did focus on the running game in the beginning of the game and on key RZ plays. It just wasn't working. Most of the other non Bryant passes were for short yardage chain movers or during 2 minute offense, dinks and dunks to move the ball quickly down the field seeing as how Pit was behind by multiple scores. Bell was not effective in receiving 8 check down recs for 33 yards (4.1 ypc) which I classify as a slightly more risky extension of the running game. The actual running game totals ended yielding 11/36 from Bell and Blount ran for 5/0 (16/36 2.3 ypc), but as bad as those stats sound, it's even worse than those stats indicate.

They didn't really go to Bryant until they experienced lack of success in the running game. He didn't receive his first target until halfway through the 2nd quarter (a poorly thrown ball INT at the 2 yard line), but he did end up receiving the most potentially high value targets by the end of the game. This is important to understand for all the people thinking he got a lucky garbage time TD and that was all. He had plenty of other high value targets that didn't hit, two deep balls and 1 RZ target. If Brown didn't muff the punt, they would have had another drive before the end of the half to try and score, but instead they got it back with only :52 seconds to run the 2 minute offense (Bryant doesn't see the field yet in 2 minute offense) so Bryant got 1 lonely target in the 1st half, but it was a RZ target at least. Most of the focus was running the ball with short passes sprinkled in to move the chains.

Second half opened with a target to Bryant, a catch then they went back to 2 minute offense and Bryant came off the field again and the drive ended with another poorly thrown ball to the Jets defense. Next drive opens with a pass deep to Bryant and ends with a deep pass deep to Bryant, both poorly underthrown by Ben, no fault of Bryant.

Next drive opens with a deep ball to Bryant, another underthrown ball, but nice adjustment by Bryant for a 45 yard catch. They dink and dunk from there to get to the RZ. This time they go to Bell exclusively on the next 4 RZ plays from the 18 mixing 2 runs and 2 short passes. Doesn't work. The drive ended when they "tried to run the ball" on 3rd and 1 from the 4 yard line to lose a yard before missing the FG. Would a fade to Bryant be a better choice? Bryant received no RZ looks on this drive. *shrug*

Next drive Bryant involved again on a screen pass but Wheaton's penalty calls it back. Also received another target on an out pattern that Bryant didn't catch, couldn't tell who's fault this was from the angle of the camera on condensed game, might have been a drop. Anyway they dink and dunk to get to the RZ again and it goes down like this:

Bell runs from the 16 to the 14 for 2 yards (Bryant on sidelines). Pass to Brown for 13 yard gain to the 1 (Bryant was on the field for this play). Note that the only successful play in the RZ came with Bryant on the field taking some attention away from Brown. 1st and goal from the one. Pass to Harrison!?!?! WTH (Bryant not on field), maybe it was a target to Miller. I am guessing Harrison screwed up. Defense roughing the passer penalty makes it moot point. Now its on the half yard line 1st and goal. What do they do this time? Run Blount in I formation for half yard loss with Harrison as the lead up back blocker (desperation?). 2nd and goal from the 1. Run Blount for -8 yards. Getting the theme here? These were jumbo formations with no WRs on the field. They have no running game with either Bell or Blount in the RZ under ideal short yardage conditions for converting a TD.

They are helplessly ineffective trying to run the ball from 1st and goal from the half yard line in a manner that is comical. Equally comical is their running game in the red zone. They were net negative -8.5 yards on 3 runs from Bell/Blount on short yardage plays where they only needed a half yard on one play for a TD, a single yard on 3rd and 1 inside the 3 for a 1st down, and a single yard on 2nd and goal on the 1. THEY DO NOT HAVE A SHORT YARDAGE POWER RUNNING GAME!!! This has been the theme all year. In space Bell is a good runner, but in space Brown/Wheaton/Miller/Moore are also good options. So those guys on the radio calling for Pit to return to their glory days of running the football have no idea what they are talking about and in turn neither do you since you listen to them and regurgitate their nonsense. The only success they have to score is to throw the ball. Bryant is their best RZ option with Miller as the 2nd option.

Back to the drive ... after Blount ran for -8 we have 3rd down from the 9 and we see 3 wide formation, sending out the 3 munchkins Brown (5'10 186) / Wheaton (5'11 182) / Moore (5'9 190) and we get an incomplete pass to Brown at the goal line that had a zero chance of being a TD even if caught. Bryant saw the field on only 1 of the 6 RZ snaps and wasn't targeted on any with the only play that had any success being the one where Bryant was on the field. They went run (Bell)/ pass (Brown)/ pass (Harrison)/run (Blount)/ run (Blount)/ pass (Brown) and ended up with 3 points. When they review this tape, they will realize that Bryant was worthy of at least one RZ target on a fade route down there, and that might have given Pit 7 points with 9 minutes left in the ball game for a score of 10 to 20. That earlier missed FG from the 4 yard line really hurt as well because that would have put them at 13-20, and Bryant's late game TD would have been for the tie, but that's a lot of ifs. The morale of the story is PIT did try to run the ball and they couldn't budge the line up front for half a yard on multiple tries near the goal line. Think this is the reason they don't have many rushing TDs? If they cant score from inside the 1, how can they from inside the 5?

Overall I think this was a good game for Bryant's future going forward. They had no scoring success with Bryant on the sidelines and if you count Wheaton's penalty play, Bryant actually got 8 targets this game, which is the most he has seen along with another uptick in snaps. If he can learn the 2 minute offense then he should see a large increase in his production. Overall, there really are few negatives you can point to during Bryant's 4 game trend as a rookie, his targets, snaps, usage are all trending up or being sustained under ideal conditions, but as we saw last game, even under non ideal situations he still put up WR1 numbers in spite of only receiving 8% of the RZ targets. The only negative I can point to is I don't like how he only got 1/13 RZ targets this week, however, seeing as they were unsuccessful to the point of comedy in the RZ running game and how the other WRs/TEs were also not effective in the RZ, one can only hope that this brings into focus how effective Bryant has been in the RZ and should refocus the coaching staff back to using what is successful, Bryant in the RZ.

This is staring the coaching staff right in the face after losing to the Jets like they did. They left their best RZ weapon on the bench for 10/13 RZ looks. They have had a lot of success going to Bryant in the RZ and he should have received more that one target, or at least have been on the field during those 10 RZ looks as a decoy instead of on the bench. They need to get it through their head that while Brown is their best WR between the 20s, Bryant, not Brown should be the WR on the field in the RZ. Brown is small and not an elite RZ target like Bryant.

This is a guy that has scored 40% of the TDs over the past 4 games. They went away from Bryant this game in the RZ and tried to run the ball and it got them nada. Calling for more ineffective running is not the answer. The guys on the radio should have been calling for more Bryant in the RZ, not more running. I believe after watching the tape the coaching staff will go back to more Bryant in the RZ going forward.

 

[Bayhawks]

So during my lunch I see that Bayhawks listened to his Monday morning show before chiming in. It sounds like the hosts are warming to Bryant a little now that Bayhawks has softened stance, but I don't buy that they need to run the ball more, or that they didn't try to run the ball when they should have. Sounds like typical local radio time filling chatter.

I don't know what you are talking about. I listen to 93.7 here in Pittsburgh, because I don't really listen to music, and it's the "best" sports talk station here. I didn't post anything yesterday, because I wasn't able to re-watch the game until yesterday afternoon, then I was watching MNF.

I admitted that I under-estimated Bryant. After watching the Jets game again, yesterday, it became abundantly clear that he is (and probably will remain) a big part of the Steeler's plan in the RZ. That, coupled with his size/speed, will make him a valuable FF WR. When you combine that with the fact that the opposing D has to account for A Brown, that is a very good situation for him to be in.

I'm not ready to call him a WR1; it's only been 4 games. I didn't call any of the other rookie WRs WR1s after their first 4 games either.

As to the TD & his stats beforeheand. 63 yards in a game isn't WR1 production. Yes, that's what Brown did, but he has demonstrated over 2 full seasons that he is a WR1, Bryant has put up those numbers over 2 games (before yesterday). I give Brown a little more benefit of the doubt.

I also noted that even though the TD was a garbage time TD, it counts, and you have to give him credit for making the play.

As for the defense, it looked to me like a prevent D, but when Ben got pressured & scrambled, the deep help got sucked up. Bryant kept running, and when he got to the middle of the field, Ben got a chance to throw and threw him away from ther corner. Bryant showed impressive speed catching up to the ball & scoring.

As far as the return to the running game; I'm not suggesting that or predicting that. But based on the Steelers' history over the last few years, I am concerned that it might take place.

 

[lod01]

This is staring the coaching staff right in the face after losing to the Jets like they did. They left their best RZ weapon on the bench for 10/13 RZ looks. They have had a lot of success going to Bryant in the RZ and he should have received more that one target, or at least have been on the field during those 10 RZ looks as a decoy instead of on the bench. They need to get it through their head that while Brown is their best WR between the 20s, Bryant, not Brown should be the WR on the field in the RZ. Brown is small and not an elite RZ target like Bryant.

This is a guy that has scored 40% of the TDs over the past 4 games. They went away from Bryant this game in the RZ and tried to run the ball and it got them nada. Calling for more ineffective running is not the answer. The guys on the radio should have been calling for more Bryant in the RZ, not more running. I believe after watching the tape the coaching staff will go back to more Bryant in the RZ going forward.

That is some really bizarre coaching when everyone knows that you can't run on the Jets.

 

[Bayhawks]

This is staring the coaching staff right in the face after losing to the Jets like they did. They left their best RZ weapon on the bench for 10/13 RZ looks. They have had a lot of success going to Bryant in the RZ and he should have received more that one target, or at least have been on the field during those 10 RZ looks as a decoy instead of on the bench. They need to get it through their head that while Brown is their best WR between the 20s, Bryant, not Brown should be the WR on the field in the RZ. Brown is small and not an elite RZ target like Bryant.

This is a guy that has scored 40% of the TDs over the past 4 games. They went away from Bryant this game in the RZ and tried to run the ball and it got them nada. Calling for more ineffective running is not the answer. The guys on the radio should have been calling for more Bryant in the RZ, not more running. I believe after watching the tape the coaching staff will go back to more Bryant in the RZ going forward.

That is some really bizarre coaching when everyone knows that you can't run on the Jets.

A lot of the decisions made by the Steelers coaches and management (especially since Tomlin became HC) are suspect; that's one of the reasons I'm not confident that they will stay with the passing game that has been successful recently.

 

[Cheesedawg]

So during my lunch I see that Bayhawks listened to his Monday morning show before chiming in. It sounds like the hosts are warming to Bryant a little now that Bayhawks has softened stance, but I don't buy that they need to run the ball more, or that they didn't try to run the ball when they should have. Sounds like typical local radio time filling chatter.

I don't know what you are talking about. I listen to 93.7 here in Pittsburgh, because I don't really listen to music, and it's the "best" sports talk station here. I didn't post anything yesterday, because I wasn't able to re-watch the game until yesterday afternoon, then I was watching MNF.

I admitted that I under-estimated Bryant. After watching the Jets game again, yesterday, it became abundantly clear that he is (and probably will remain) a big part of the Steeler's plan in the RZ. That, coupled with his size/speed, will make him a valuable FF WR. When you combine that with the fact that the opposing D has to account for A Brown, that is a very good situation for him to be in.

I'm not ready to call him a WR1; it's only been 4 games. I didn't call any of the other rookie WRs WR1s after their first 4 games either.

As to the TD & his stats beforeheand. 63 yards in a game isn't WR1 production. Yes, that's what Brown did, but he has demonstrated over 2 full seasons that he is a WR1, Bryant has put up those numbers over 2 games (before yesterday). I give Brown a little more benefit of the doubt.

I also noted that even though the TD was a garbage time TD, it counts, and you have to give him credit for making the play.

As for the defense, it looked to me like a prevent D, but when Ben got pressured & scrambled, the deep help got sucked up. Bryant kept running, and when he got to the middle of the field, Ben got a chance to throw and threw him away from ther corner. Bryant showed impressive speed catching up to the ball & scoring.

As far as the return to the running game; I'm not suggesting that or predicting that. But based on the Steelers' history over the last few years, I am concerned that it might take place.

It wasn't garbage time when the game was still seriously contested, Scarecrow, And who cares if a talk radio listener in PA thinks they should run the ball more. Was the caller Franco Harris?

And yes, Scarecrow, you both suggested and predicted that the team would return to run-first football. Wear it.

Nobody is trying to assign a WR1 label to Bryant besides your straw man. You are simply pounding that straw-man argument onto all comers. Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[bumpman]

So during my lunch I see that Bayhawks listened to his Monday morning show before chiming in. It sounds like the hosts are warming to Bryant a little now that Bayhawks has softened stance, but I don't buy that they need to run the ball more, or that they didn't try to run the ball when they should have. Sounds like typical local radio time filling chatter.

I don't know what you are talking about. I listen to 93.7 here in Pittsburgh, because I don't really listen to music, and it's the "best" sports talk station here. I didn't post anything yesterday, because I wasn't able to re-watch the game until yesterday afternoon, then I was watching MNF.I admitted that I under-estimated Bryant. After watching the Jets game again, yesterday, it became abundantly clear that he is (and probably will remain) a big part of the Steeler's plan in the RZ. That, coupled with his size/speed, will make him a valuable FF WR. When you combine that with the fact that the opposing D has to account for A Brown, that is a very good situation for him to be in.

I'm not ready to call him a WR1; it's only been 4 games. I didn't call any of the other rookie WRs WR1s after their first 4 games either.

As to the TD & his stats beforeheand. 63 yards in a game isn't WR1 production. Yes, that's what Brown did, but he has demonstrated over 2 full seasons that he is a WR1, Bryant has put up those numbers over 2 games (before yesterday). I give Brown a little more benefit of the doubt.

I also noted that even though the TD was a garbage time TD, it counts, and you have to give him credit for making the play.

As for the defense, it looked to me like a prevent D, but when Ben got pressured & scrambled, the deep help got sucked up. Bryant kept running, and when he got to the middle of the field, Ben got a chance to throw and threw him away from ther corner. Bryant showed impressive speed catching up to the ball & scoring.

As far as the return to the running game; I'm not suggesting that or predicting that. But based on the Steelers' history over the last few years, I am concerned that it might take place.

It wasn't garbage time when the game was still seriously contested, Scarecrow, And who cares if a talk radio listener in PA thinks they should run the ball more. Was the caller Franco Harris?And yes, Scarecrow, you both suggested and predicted that the team would return to run-first football. Wear it.

Nobody is trying to assign a WR1 label to Bryant besides your straw man. You are simply pounding that straw-man argument onto all comers. Garbage in, garbage out.

I love Bryant, but you should dial down the tool factor. It's unbecoming.

 

[Bayhawks]

So during my lunch I see that Bayhawks listened to his Monday morning show before chiming in. It sounds like the hosts are warming to Bryant a little now that Bayhawks has softened stance, but I don't buy that they need to run the ball more, or that they didn't try to run the ball when they should have. Sounds like typical local radio time filling chatter.

I don't know what you are talking about. I listen to 93.7 here in Pittsburgh, because I don't really listen to music, and it's the "best" sports talk station here. I didn't post anything yesterday, because I wasn't able to re-watch the game until yesterday afternoon, then I was watching MNF.I admitted that I under-estimated Bryant. After watching the Jets game again, yesterday, it became abundantly clear that he is (and probably will remain) a big part of the Steeler's plan in the RZ. That, coupled with his size/speed, will make him a valuable FF WR. When you combine that with the fact that the opposing D has to account for A Brown, that is a very good situation for him to be in.

I'm not ready to call him a WR1; it's only been 4 games. I didn't call any of the other rookie WRs WR1s after their first 4 games either.

As to the TD & his stats beforeheand. 63 yards in a game isn't WR1 production. Yes, that's what Brown did, but he has demonstrated over 2 full seasons that he is a WR1, Bryant has put up those numbers over 2 games (before yesterday). I give Brown a little more benefit of the doubt.

I also noted that even though the TD was a garbage time TD, it counts, and you have to give him credit for making the play.

As for the defense, it looked to me like a prevent D, but when Ben got pressured & scrambled, the deep help got sucked up. Bryant kept running, and when he got to the middle of the field, Ben got a chance to throw and threw him away from ther corner. Bryant showed impressive speed catching up to the ball & scoring.

As far as the return to the running game; I'm not suggesting that or predicting that. But based on the Steelers' history over the last few years, I am concerned that it might take place.

It wasn't garbage time when the game was still seriously contested, Scarecrow, And who cares if a talk radio listener in PA thinks they should run the ball more. Was the caller Franco Harris?And yes, Scarecrow, you both suggested and predicted that the team would return to run-first football. Wear it.

Nobody is trying to assign a WR1 label to Bryant besides your straw man. You are simply pounding that straw-man argument onto all comers. Garbage in, garbage out.

I love Bryant, but you should dial down the tool factor. It's unbecoming.

The problem with the ignore feature on this site is that you see posts you want to ignore when they are quoted, otherwise I wouldn't bother to respond to your post.

I mentioned my concern about Pitt returning to a run-heavy scheme in posts 312, 316, 318, & 321. Feel free to re-read them. Not a single one of them contains me saying I predict that they will do this, or that I think they should do this. They say (in some variation) that they've historically been a run-first team, the Steelers management has in the past few years wanted to run more, and/or that fans/talk radio call for that when things go bad.

When I mentioned yesterday that Bryant still wasn't a WR1, it was in response to mnmplayer asking what you call Bryant when he has had multiple WR1, double-digit performances. He mentioned WR1 status, so I replied to it.

Seriously, grow up already.

 

[I Am the Stig]

So during my lunch I see that Bayhawks listened to his Monday morning show before chiming in. It sounds like the hosts are warming to Bryant a little now that Bayhawks has softened stance, but I don't buy that they need to run the ball more, or that they didn't try to run the ball when they should have. Sounds like typical local radio time filling chatter.

I don't know what you are talking about. I listen to 93.7 here in Pittsburgh, because I don't really listen to music, and it's the "best" sports talk station here. I didn't post anything yesterday, because I wasn't able to re-watch the game until yesterday afternoon, then I was watching MNF.I admitted that I under-estimated Bryant. After watching the Jets game again, yesterday, it became abundantly clear that he is (and probably will remain) a big part of the Steeler's plan in the RZ. That, coupled with his size/speed, will make him a valuable FF WR. When you combine that with the fact that the opposing D has to account for A Brown, that is a very good situation for him to be in.

I'm not ready to call him a WR1; it's only been 4 games. I didn't call any of the other rookie WRs WR1s after their first 4 games either.

As to the TD & his stats beforeheand. 63 yards in a game isn't WR1 production. Yes, that's what Brown did, but he has demonstrated over 2 full seasons that he is a WR1, Bryant has put up those numbers over 2 games (before yesterday). I give Brown a little more benefit of the doubt.

I also noted that even though the TD was a garbage time TD, it counts, and you have to give him credit for making the play.

As for the defense, it looked to me like a prevent D, but when Ben got pressured & scrambled, the deep help got sucked up. Bryant kept running, and when he got to the middle of the field, Ben got a chance to throw and threw him away from ther corner. Bryant showed impressive speed catching up to the ball & scoring.

As far as the return to the running game; I'm not suggesting that or predicting that. But based on the Steelers' history over the last few years, I am concerned that it might take place.

It wasn't garbage time when the game was still seriously contested, Scarecrow, And who cares if a talk radio listener in PA thinks they should run the ball more. Was the caller Franco Harris?And yes, Scarecrow, you both suggested and predicted that the team would return to run-first football. Wear it.

Nobody is trying to assign a WR1 label to Bryant besides your straw man. You are simply pounding that straw-man argument onto all comers. Garbage in, garbage out.

I love Bryant, but you should dial down the tool factor. It's unbecoming.

The problem with the ignore feature on this site is that you see posts you want to ignore when they are quoted, otherwise I wouldn't bother to respond to your post.I mentioned my concern about Pitt returning to a run-heavy scheme in posts 312, 316, 318, & 321. Feel free to re-read them. Not a single one of them contains me saying I predict that they will do this, or that I think they should do this. They say (in some variation) that they've historically been a run-first team, the Steelers management has in the past few years wanted to run more, and/or that fans/talk radio call for that when things go bad.

When I mentioned yesterday that Bryant still wasn't a WR1, it was in response to mnmplayer asking what you call Bryant when he has had multiple WR1, double-digit performances. He mentioned WR1 status, so I replied to it.

Seriously, grow up already.

Isn't it time that the two of you just made sweet sweet love to each other?

 

[Sabertooth]

Just offered Bryant for Ahmad Bradshaw, was rebuffed. He wants Josh Gordon.

 

[mnmplayer]

So when you have 4 WR1 double digit performances with 6 TDs in your first 4 games of your career playing less than 50% of the snaps what does that make you Bayhawks??? A product of Ben?

As I've already posted, I under-estimated Bryant's force/role in the EZ. Even when the Steelers didn't get many shots down there, they targeted Bryant several times, and not just targets, but plays designed for him. After only 4 games, I'm not willing to call him a FF WR1, but he's not a WR2/WR3 type, like I'd believed, but more like a strong WR2.

I'm still concerned that the Steelers could revert back to more running in reaction to the Jets loss (which would impact ALL Pitt receivers), but I don't think Bryant will completely disappear if that were to happen.

Agreed. There is no way you can lave him on your bench in a start 3 WR league. Since Carson Palmer is out I won't be starting Fitz over him that's for sure. Too bad as he was showing signs of life with Palmer back.

 

[Bayhawks]

So when you have 4 WR1 double digit performances with 6 TDs in your first 4 games of your career playing less than 50% of the snaps what does that make you Bayhawks??? A product of Ben?

As I've already posted, I under-estimated Bryant's force/role in the EZ. Even when the Steelers didn't get many shots down there, they targeted Bryant several times, and not just targets, but plays designed for him. After only 4 games, I'm not willing to call him a FF WR1, but he's not a WR2/WR3 type, like I'd believed, but more like a strong WR2.

I'm still concerned that the Steelers could revert back to more running in reaction to the Jets loss (which would impact ALL Pitt receivers), but I don't think Bryant will completely disappear if that were to happen.

Agreed. There is no way you can lave him on your bench in a start 3 WR league. Since Carson Palmer is out I won't be starting Fitz over him that's for sure. Too bad as he was showing signs of life with Palmer back.

I don't want to say no way; he's going to start for me from here on out in a 3 WR; but in another league where you can start a 3rd WR or 3rd RB, the Bryant owner has A Brown, & AJ Green as their top 2 WR, and they made a trade earlier this year to get Gordon. After the Steelers bye in week 12, with Gordon back, I don't see how he'll start Bryant over those 3.

 

[mnmplayer]

I got A.J.Green/Sanu/Bryant/Gordon/Fitz. So I will see how things play out the next couple weeks. Week 11 and 12 are easy since Gordon is not avail for week 11 and Bryant is not avail for week 12. Week 13 will depend on past performance/Injuries/matchups, but my point is he is ranked Top24 WR so would even start in a 2 WR league unless you had 2 WR1s.

 

[mnmplayer]

Updating Snap Counts:

WK01-6 (0%)
WK07 22-of-65 snaps (33.8%) HOU
WK08 33-of-84 snaps (39.2%) IND
WK09 37-of-72 snaps (51.3%) BAL (started)

WK10 39-of-64 snaps (60.9%) NYJ (started)

Insights from last game:

1. 2nd start in a row.

2. Moore was in for 18 snaps (28%), and his usage was almost exclusively for 2 minute offense. This is the key share of snaps missed by Bryant now.

3. Even A. Brown missed 5 offensive snaps this game and I believe that is related to no WR sets, (I remember at least 3 goal line plays with no WR on the field and a few other short yardage situations) so if we discount these 5 plays assuming no WR was on the field then Bryant was on the field for 65% of the WR sets or 2/3 of the WR plays.

Conclusions we can take from the game going forward?

When Bryant learns the 2 minute offense or better put, if the PIT coaching staff feels comfortable with him or feels he is more effective in the 2 minute offense than Moore, he should soak up Moore's 28% of the snaps which in the NYJ game would have put him at 88% of the total snaps or nearly 95% of the WR sets.

When can we expect him to crack into "2 minute offense" WR sets?

They have a bye week coming up during week 12. There could be a chance he takes a crash coarse study during the bye week. If I was the coach I would tell him to bust his ### and while all the vets are taking time off he should work on studying the 2 minute offense with Ben and see where he's at during the practice leading up to the week 13 game. By that time Bryant could be fully unleashed.

Bottom line you are starting him either way, but it's some possible upside for the fantasy playoffs if he cracks into the 2 minute offense snaps.

 

[FF Wiseguy]

Just traded Marshall and Martavis for Dez from owner who is in a must win this week. Martavis was not starting for me, so I don't mind giving up the value for the starter upgrade. I probably could have tried to give up a little less given his desperate situation, but WR is the only position I could trade away, and they were my 5th and 6th best WRs.

 

[Hu-Tang Clan]

Just traded Marshall and Martavis for Dez. Martavis was not starting for me, so I don't mind giving up the value for the starter upgrade.

I just did the same with Marshall and Martavis but for Calvin. It's a contract league so I also opened up some more cap space by doing it.

 

[flapgreen]

I'll be at this game Monday night. Will report back how he looks live

 

[5-ish Finkle]

They "retired" Arians because his offense wasn't enough of a running offense, and ownership expressed the last few years that they desire a more balanced offense.

Patently false. Ownership expressed a desire to "run better." Rooney has clarified this more than once since he said that back in '11/'12 . He wasn't happy with their efficiency when they ran the ball(or in the RZ overall), he wasn't demanding that they try and become the 1976 squad. He even said something to the effect of "we have an elite QB and the NFL has new rules that favor those. He should be utilized." or some such.

When you compare the last three years of Arians with the three years that Haley has been there, Roethlisberger's attempts per game have went up slightly(from around 33 to 36 APG). There's been zero indication that there is any danger of that team "becoming a run heavy offense" as long as they still have #7 and those receivers.

 

[Cheesedawg]

They "retired" Arians because his offense wasn't enough of a running offense, and ownership expressed the last few years that they desire a more balanced offense.

Patently false. Ownership expressed a desire to "run better." Rooney has clarified this more than once since he said that back in '11/'12 . He wasn't happy with their efficiency when they ran the ball(or in the RZ overall), he wasn't demanding that they try and become the 1976 squad. He even said something to the effect of "we have an elite QB and the NFL has new rules that favor those. He should be utilized." or some such.

When you compare the last three years of Arians with the three years that Haley has been there, Roethlisberger's attempts per game have went up slightly(from around 33 to 36 APG). There's been zero indication that there is any danger of that team "becoming a run heavy offense" as long as they still have #7 and those receivers.

You are exactly right.

The statement you have corrected was from somebody who gets their "insight" and suppositions from sports talk show callers. 'Nuff said.

 

[Jack White]

Just traded Marshall and Martavis for Dez from owner who is in a must win this week. Martavis was not starting for me, so I don't mind giving up the value for the starter upgrade. I probably could have tried to give up a little less given his desperate situation, but WR is the

only position I could trade away, and they were my 5th and 6th best WRs.

Hey now!

You can't just throw out there that a consensus first-round pick and the breakout rookie phenom are your fifth and sixth best WRs . . . without telling us who your top-4 are and how you acquired them.

 

[RealReactions]

I'm all in on this kid. Starting him in my flex over sanu and Alfred blue in a must win game. Please god be with me

 

[FF Wiseguy]

Just traded Marshall and Martavis for Dez from owner who is in a must win this week. Martavis was not starting for me, so I don't mind giving up the value for the starter upgrade. I probably could have tried to give up a little less given his desperate situation, but WR is the

only position I could trade away, and they were my 5th and 6th best WRs.

Hey now!

You can't just throw out there that a consensus first-round pick and the breakout rookie phenom are your fifth and sixth best WRs . . . without telling us who your top-4 are and how you acquired them.

I have Jordy, Julio, Sanders, Benjamin, Marshall, and Bryant.

Auction draft. Drafted Jordy, Julio, and Benjamin at good prices. Traded for Gronk preseason, then traded him to get Sanders. Traded Garcon/Wilson/Vereen for Marshall/Rainey right after Ridley got hurt and WIlson was off his 30 pt. game.

 

[mnmplayer]

They are helplessly ineffective trying to run the ball from 1st and goal from the half yard line in a manner that is comical. Equally comical is their running game in the red zone. They were net negative -8.5 yards on 3 runs from Bell/Blount on short yardage plays where they only needed a half yard on one play for a TD, a single yard on 3rd and 1 inside the 3 for a 1st down, and a single yard on 2nd and goal on the 1. THEY DO NOT HAVE A SHORT YARDAGE POWER RUNNING GAME!!!

MNF just outlined how horrible the Pit RZ running game is in the pre-game. Trent Dilfer actually had something insightful to say. "They couldn't block or move the LOS in the RZ!" I just hope they learned their lesson and the 6'4 Bryant isn't just standing around on the sidelines again tonight when they are in the RZ. Give the TD magnet a chance or 3.

 

[lod01]

Bryant should have gone up to get that. He let it come to him. Someone needs to coach him on that.

 

[mnmplayer]

late pass, he had 5 yards of separation, but yeah he should have jumped at lest. He got a RZ target, thrown way too high on another pass. ugh. At least he got 4 targets in the 1st Q.

 

[RealReactions]

Bryant should have gone up to get that. He let it come to him. Someone needs to coach him on that.

If big Ben didn't float that it would have been a touchdown.

 

[Jerry Curl]

Bryant should have gone up to get that. He let it come to him. Someone needs to coach him on that.

Yeah, scoring TDs is something he needs to do better at, he isnt good at it yet. I wish he would catch a TD in every NFL game he has played, is that too much to ask?

 

[Insein]

3rd end zone target

 

[thekidd2009]

3rd end zone target

He's gotta make a play or ben's gonna start locking back on to antonio brown

 

[flapgreen]

At the game. Bryant on field when they're within 30-40yds endzone at all times, mixed in with Wheaton the rest. Dropped 2 td catches so far. He's not there yet, guys. Could've been a huge week again.

 

[Jack White]

Bryant should have gone up to get that. He let it come to him. Someone needs to coach him on that.

Maybe, but Ben needs to throw it up high so only Martavis can get to it.

Could have easily had two TDs with better throws from Ben.

 

[Jack White]

At the game. Bryant on field when they're within 30-40yds endzone at all times, mixed in with Wheaton the rest. Dropped 2 td catches so far. He's not there yet, guys. Could've been a huge week again.

Maybe you have a bad angle, but the second one was deflected by the DB.

Again, a higher pass from Ben and the DB doesn't get to it.

 

[mnmplayer]

that was a good play by the cb. Won't be counted as a drop.