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NBA trade deadline thread


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Looks like VC for Howard/Stack is dead - lots of NJ chatter about a VC trade to the Spurs.

Main parts would be Mason and Hill - with 2 other players added for cap purposes and then waived by NJ

I doubt Thorn pulls the trigger on that one - not enough in return IMO - but I dont know Mason/Hill that well.

Speculation that Thorn really likes Portland players and will try to get one of them - Fernandez, Bayless, etc with the big expiring they have for VC.

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Looks like VC for Howard/Stack is dead - lots of NJ chatter about a VC trade to the Spurs. Main parts would be Mason and Hill - with 2 other players added for cap purposes and then waived by NJI doubt Thorn pulls the trigger on that one - not enough in return IMO - but I dont know Mason/Hill that well. Speculation that Thorn really likes Portland players and will try to get one of them - Fernandez, Bayless, etc with the big expiring they have for VC.

The latter scenario would be ideal, Fernandez can be a solid starter for the Nets. Has Portland shown interest in Vince Carter? I think he would be a great fit for that team. Roy and Carter is a solid 1-2 punch.
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Shaq clogging the lane for LeBron.

This ridiculous argument reminds of a baseball writer who once said Wade Boggs was no good for the Sox because, although he got on base a lot, he was a terrible base runner, and he hurt his team by "clogging the bases".Not that Shaq is going to Cleveland, but he in no way would hurt Lebron's game by clogging the lane.
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Shaq clogging the lane for LeBron.

This ridiculous argument reminds of a baseball writer who once said Wade Boggs was no good for the Sox because, although he got on base a lot, he was a terrible base runner, and he hurt his team by "clogging the bases".Not that Shaq is going to Cleveland, but he in no way would hurt Lebron's game by clogging the lane.
Tell that to Steve Nash.
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Shaq clogging the lane for LeBron.

This ridiculous argument reminds of a baseball writer who once said Wade Boggs was no good for the Sox because, although he got on base a lot, he was a terrible base runner, and he hurt his team by "clogging the bases".Not that Shaq is going to Cleveland, but he in no way would hurt Lebron's game by clogging the lane.
Tell that to Steve Nash.
what?
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Shaq clogging the lane for LeBron.

This ridiculous argument reminds of a baseball writer who once said Wade Boggs was no good for the Sox because, although he got on base a lot, he was a terrible base runner, and he hurt his team by "clogging the bases".Not that Shaq is going to Cleveland, but he in no way would hurt Lebron's game by clogging the lane.
Tell that to Steve Nash.
what?
Do you think its a giant coincidence that Nash is currently posting lows in his second stint with the Suns in points per game, shooting efficiency, turnovers and assists with a giant slow old man clogging the lane?
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Shaq clogging the lane for LeBron.

This ridiculous argument reminds of a baseball writer who once said Wade Boggs was no good for the Sox because, although he got on base a lot, he was a terrible base runner, and he hurt his team by "clogging the bases".Not that Shaq is going to Cleveland, but he in no way would hurt Lebron's game by clogging the lane.
Tell that to Steve Nash.
what?
Do you think its a giant coincidence that Nash is currently posting lows in his second stint with the Suns in points per game, shooting efficiency, turnovers and assists with a giant slow old man clogging the lane?
I would say the change in offensive philosophy is the main reason. Although I agree, everywhere he has gone, Shaq has really hindered his teams guard play because he was clogging the middle. Guy ruined Dwayne Wade's career, Wade just couldn't get to the basket with the big fat old slow center in there clogging the lane.
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Shaq clogging the lane for LeBron.

This ridiculous argument reminds of a baseball writer who once said Wade Boggs was no good for the Sox because, although he got on base a lot, he was a terrible base runner, and he hurt his team by "clogging the bases".Not that Shaq is going to Cleveland, but he in no way would hurt Lebron's game by clogging the lane.
Tell that to Steve Nash.
what?
Do you think its a giant coincidence that Nash is currently posting lows in his second stint with the Suns in points per game, shooting efficiency, turnovers and assists with a giant slow old man clogging the lane?
I would say the change in offensive philosophy is the main reason. Although I agree, everywhere he has gone, Shaq has really hindered his teams guard play because he was clogging the middle. Guy ruined Dwayne Wade's career, Wade just couldn't get to the basket with the big fat old slow center in there clogging the lane.
Unfortunately the Shaq of three years ago isn't on the trading block right now. There is a reason why Big Z's offensive game consists mostly of jump shots away from the post. A center away from the basket guarding him creates a more vulnerable lane for Lebron to attack.
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Shaq clogging the lane for LeBron.

This ridiculous argument reminds of a baseball writer who once said Wade Boggs was no good for the Sox because, although he got on base a lot, he was a terrible base runner, and he hurt his team by "clogging the bases".Not that Shaq is going to Cleveland, but he in no way would hurt Lebron's game by clogging the lane.
Tell that to Steve Nash.
what?
Do you think its a giant coincidence that Nash is currently posting lows in his second stint with the Suns in points per game, shooting efficiency, turnovers and assists with a giant slow old man clogging the lane?
I would say the change in offensive philosophy is the main reason. Although I agree, everywhere he has gone, Shaq has really hindered his teams guard play because he was clogging the middle. Guy ruined Dwayne Wade's career, Wade just couldn't get to the basket with the big fat old slow center in there clogging the lane.
Unfortunately the Shaq of three years ago isn't on the trading block right now. There is a reason why Big Z's offensive game consists mostly of jump shots away from the post. A center away from the basket guarding him creates a more vulnerable lane for Lebron to attack.
I know, the Shaq of 3 years ago had worse stats than the Shaq of 2009. Are you saying he was more athletic 3 years ago than he is now? Shaq would be a buge boost to the Cavs, or any team for that matter.
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Shaq clogging the lane for LeBron.

This ridiculous argument reminds of a baseball writer who once said Wade Boggs was no good for the Sox because, although he got on base a lot, he was a terrible base runner, and he hurt his team by "clogging the bases".Not that Shaq is going to Cleveland, but he in no way would hurt Lebron's game by clogging the lane.
Tell that to Steve Nash.
what?
Do you think its a giant coincidence that Nash is currently posting lows in his second stint with the Suns in points per game, shooting efficiency, turnovers and assists with a giant slow old man clogging the lane?
I would say the change in offensive philosophy is the main reason. Although I agree, everywhere he has gone, Shaq has really hindered his teams guard play because he was clogging the middle. Guy ruined Dwayne Wade's career, Wade just couldn't get to the basket with the big fat old slow center in there clogging the lane.
Unfortunately the Shaq of three years ago isn't on the trading block right now. There is a reason why Big Z's offensive game consists mostly of jump shots away from the post. A center away from the basket guarding him creates a more vulnerable lane for Lebron to attack.
:hophead: I don't see the Cavs as a good fit at all. I like the big man core they've assembled. If they want to play half court, they have Z. If they want to run, they've got Varaejo (sp). The offense should run through Lebron....not playing dump down to Shaq. If they do want to use Wally's expiring, I think they can do better than taking on Shaq's deal.
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People bagging on Shaq haven't been watching him this year...guy is a beast.

:hophead: I was skeptical myself, until I saw several of his games this year. He is dominating inside. He has said in articles that the Suns medical staff have worked wonders for him.
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People bagging on Shaq haven't been watching him this year...guy is a beast.

:goodposting: I was skeptical myself, until I saw several of his games this year. He is dominating inside. He has said in articles that the Suns medical staff have worked wonders for him.
I was sold very early on when Yao Ming came to town...I had 12th row seats.....Shaq flat out abused him. He's outplayed nearly every center in the league this year. Tim Duncan is the only center that's played better IMHO.
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People bagging on Shaq haven't been watching him this year...guy is a beast.

:goodposting: I was skeptical myself, until I saw several of his games this year. He is dominating inside. He has said in articles that the Suns medical staff have worked wonders for him.
I was sold very early on when Yao Ming came to town...I had 12th row seats.....Shaq flat out abused him. He's outplayed nearly every center in the league this year. Tim Duncan is the only center that's played better IMHO.
I'd say Dwight Howard has been better too. But Shaq has been damn good this season. He's not the problem in Phoenix. If the Suns can't win with Shaq playing this well they need to start looking at other reasons for their disappointing season.
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Shaq is averaging 17-9 on 58% shooting. To put what he is doing in perspective, here is what some other all-time great NBA centers averaged when they were 37 (Shaq turns 37 next month):

Kareem - 22-8 60%

Wilt - 13-19 73% (Wilt was still putting up sick rebounding numbers)

Robinson - 9-8 47%

Ewing - 15-10 47%

Hakeem - 12-7 50%

From a historical perspective, what Shaq is doing this season is pretty impressive. It's rare that a center will be this effective at the age of 37. Ewing was putting up good numbers but his FG% was nowhere near what Shaq's is.

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Shaq can be an effective player and a bad complementary player to Lebron James. Those two are not mutually exclusive.

I think the Cavs need size in the backcourt more than they need a center or frontcourt player. Mo, West and Gibson are tiny guards and in a tough playoff series that could become a problem.
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People bagging on Shaq haven't been watching him this year...guy is a beast.

I don't know anyone who is claiming Shaq isn't in better shape and playing better than last year. Some of us find it funny that Shaq's been so great that he's lead his team from the best record in the West to the lottery in approx 1 year.No one is overlooking Shaq's FG% or rebounding, it's just tough to believe that Nash, Amare, JRich, and Barbosa just happen to be having horrible seasons at the same time. Fact: With Marion this team is a top 4 team in the West. With Shaq, they're either lottery material or first round playoff fodder.
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People bagging on Shaq haven't been watching him this year...guy is a beast.

I don't know anyone who is claiming Shaq isn't in better shape and playing better than last year. Some of us find it funny that Shaq's been so great that he's lead his team from the best record in the West to the lottery in approx 1 year.
Tommy, it should be obvious the problem in Phoenix isn't Shaq. If the Suns can get that level of production from him and still be a disappointment (which they have been), it's clear the problem(s) reside elsewhere.
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Shaq clogging the lane for LeBron.

This ridiculous argument reminds of a baseball writer who once said Wade Boggs was no good for the Sox because, although he got on base a lot, he was a terrible base runner, and he hurt his team by "clogging the bases".Not that Shaq is going to Cleveland, but he in no way would hurt Lebron's game by clogging the lane.
Tell that to Steve Nash.
what?
Do you think its a giant coincidence that Nash is currently posting lows in his second stint with the Suns in points per game, shooting efficiency, turnovers and assists with a giant slow old man clogging the lane?
Do you think its a giant coincidence that Marion and Amare are putting up worse numbers since D'antoni left? What about Diaw and Bell? All the suns were putting up ridiculous numbers because of the system. Not because of their skill.
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People bagging on Shaq haven't been watching him this year...guy is a beast.

I don't know anyone who is claiming Shaq isn't in better shape and playing better than last year. Some of us find it funny that Shaq's been so great that he's lead his team from the best record in the West to the lottery in approx 1 year.
Tommy, it should be obvious the problem in Phoenix isn't Shaq. If the Suns can get that level of production from him and still be a disappointment (which they have been), it's clear the problem(s) reside elsewhere.
It is the change in sytem without the correct personnel. Not sure what the Suns were thinking. The new system doesn't work because they have one of the worst defensive point guards, and the worst defensive power forward in the game. As I said earlier, they need to implode the team, get rid of all 3 big guns. There will be demand for all 3 on the market. Amare will get them a great haul, Nash would net them a solid young starter, and Shaq could get them cap flexibility and a young prospect and/or picks. The Suns are not going to win as they are currently set up. Shaq and Nash are not young, and Amare is a defensive liability. Get rid of all 3 while you can get good solid players in return and the rebuilding will be a lot less painful.
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People bagging on Shaq haven't been watching him this year...guy is a beast.

I don't know anyone who is claiming Shaq isn't in better shape and playing better than last year. Some of us find it funny that Shaq's been so great that he's lead his team from the best record in the West to the lottery in approx 1 year.
Tommy, it should be obvious the problem in Phoenix isn't Shaq. If the Suns can get that level of production from him and still be a disappointment (which they have been), it's clear the problem(s) reside elsewhere.
No, he's right. You can't simply look at stats to evaluate a person's benefit to the team. And the reality is Shaq's abilities/style of play don't mesh well with the other personnel on the team. He has great stats but it's to the detriment of the rest of the team. And again, the dude is playing well but he needs to be on a team that suits his style and abilities at this time of his career. He'd do well on, say, San Antonio. He just doesn't fit well in PHX.
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Shaq hasn't been the problem. Outside of Howard, don't see any better center this year. The issue is having guys suited for 2 different styles of play. Having Shaq to play the old style of fun and gun style (that suited their existing personnel) would be like having Vince Young take Brady/Manning/Marino/Moons spot in those offenses.

They got away with playing little to no defense by outscoring people. If they wanted to turn into a defensive team, Kerr shouldn't of dealt Marion or Bell. (The only two on those teams playing defense & guarding the other teams best offensive players).

I view this decades Suns to the Golden State Warriors of the 90's. Fun to watch, just not good enough to win the title. Things could of been different if not for cheap shot Rob, but they aren't & that's that.

Nash doesn't have the luxury anymore of having Marion guard the Tony Parker's of the world & is now getting exposed as the greatest defensive liability in the league IMO.

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People bagging on Shaq haven't been watching him this year...guy is a beast.

I don't know anyone who is claiming Shaq isn't in better shape and playing better than last year. Some of us find it funny that Shaq's been so great that he's lead his team from the best record in the West to the lottery in approx 1 year.
Tommy, it should be obvious the problem in Phoenix isn't Shaq. If the Suns can get that level of production from him and still be a disappointment (which they have been), it's clear the problem(s) reside elsewhere.
No, he's right. You can't simply look at stats to evaluate a person's benefit to the team. And the reality is Shaq's abilities/style of play don't mesh well with the other personnel on the team. He has great stats but it's to the detriment of the rest of the team. And again, the dude is playing well but he needs to be on a team that suits his style and abilities at this time of his career. He'd do well on, say, San Antonio. He just doesn't fit well in PHX.
You do realize that once Mike Dantoni left, they stopped the running, right? They don't run that system anymore. That is why Nash and Amare haven't been the same. Not because of Shaq.
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HAsn't JON been playing decent D this season? I would think that perhaps getting him in there defensively can make up for Beasley's inability to be well-rounded right now.

PLEASE someone take T-Mac off our hands...anything....can't we trade T-Mac to San Antonio for Tiago Splitter and call it even? Wouldn't the Heat take him in exchange for Banks and a 1st? Why not send him to OKC to mentor Durant (not like he needs it) in exchange for some clean towels? :jabsforkineye:

:pickle:

I've been saying that for over a year but unfortunately there's a rumor that he may be shelved for the season...any knew news on his health?

ETA:

The Rockets issued a news release that says Tracy McGrady's MRI revealed no change in his injured left knee.

However, a report by Houston's Local 2 television station suggests that T-Mac needs season-ending microfracture surgery on the knee, and McGrady still says his knee injury is very serious in nature. "For everybody that thought I was just playing with some (imaginary) knee injury, my (injury) is real," he said. "It’s big. It’s not just some pain. I have a real significant problem with my knee." He's doing everything he can to be shut down for the rest of the season, but the Rockets are not playing along. In any case, plan on benching T-Mac until further notice.

Isn't it amazing to think that McGrady, Kobe, and Garnett are essentially the same age and while two of them are essentially in their prime, the sun is setting - and quickly - on the one that happens to be on my favorite team.
Isn't being a Houston sports team fan grand? Ugh.
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People bagging on Shaq haven't been watching him this year...guy is a beast.

I don't know anyone who is claiming Shaq isn't in better shape and playing better than last year. Some of us find it funny that Shaq's been so great that he's lead his team from the best record in the West to the lottery in approx 1 year.
Tommy, it should be obvious the problem in Phoenix isn't Shaq. If the Suns can get that level of production from him and still be a disappointment (which they have been), it's clear the problem(s) reside elsewhere.
No, he's right. You can't simply look at stats to evaluate a person's benefit to the team. And the reality is Shaq's abilities/style of play don't mesh well with the other personnel on the team. He has great stats but it's to the detriment of the rest of the team. And again, the dude is playing well but he needs to be on a team that suits his style and abilities at this time of his career. He'd do well on, say, San Antonio. He just doesn't fit well in PHX.
You do realize that once Mike Dantoni left, they stopped the running, right? They don't run that system anymore. That is why Nash and Amare haven't been the same. Not because of Shaq.
Yeah, and it worked well with D'antoni after Shaq arrived, right?
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Looks like VC for Howard/Stack is dead - lots of NJ chatter about a VC trade to the Spurs. Main parts would be Mason and Hill - with 2 other players added for cap purposes and then waived by NJI doubt Thorn pulls the trigger on that one - not enough in return IMO - but I dont know Mason/Hill that well. Speculation that Thorn really likes Portland players and will try to get one of them - Fernandez, Bayless, etc with the big expiring they have for VC.

The latter scenario would be ideal, Fernandez can be a solid starter for the Nets. Has Portland shown interest in Vince Carter? I think he would be a great fit for that team. Roy and Carter is a solid 1-2 punch.
I heard that Por is not dying for VC - would rather get a big man. But its a good match - can't see Thorn doing the SA or Dsllsd deals. He usually likes solid young player in these types of deals.
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The Suns went 18-11 after Shaq was acquired with D'Antoni as the head coach. Projected out to a full season that comes to 51 wins.

The Suns currently are on pace to win 45 games with Porter as the head coach. That's with Shaq playing better than he played last season.

Seems to me, the primary problem isn't Shaq, it's somewhere else.

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The Suns went 18-11 after Shaq was acquired with D'Antoni as the head coach. Projected out to a full season that comes to 51 wins.The Suns currently are on pace to win 45 games with Porter as the head coach. That's with Shaq playing better than he played last season. Seems to me, the primary problem isn't Shaq, it's somewhere else.

The suns were 34-14 and had the best record in the west at the time the Shaq trade was made. That's a 71% winning percentage.Their 18-11 with Shaq record is a 62% winning percentage.Even using your own stats he loses.
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The Suns went 18-11 after Shaq was acquired with D'Antoni as the head coach. Projected out to a full season that comes to 51 wins.The Suns currently are on pace to win 45 games with Porter as the head coach. That's with Shaq playing better than he played last season. Seems to me, the primary problem isn't Shaq, it's somewhere else.

The suns were 34-14 and had the best record in the west at the time the Shaq trade was made. That's a 71% winning percentage.Their 18-11 with Shaq record is a 62% winning percentage.Even using your own stats he loses.
Thanks for posting this :bag: We can debate all day who is "the problem" in Phoenix. From owner Robert Sarver to Porter, to Kerr, to Nash, to Amare, to Shaq. When expectations of winning a title weren't reached, the decision make a change was made (Marion to Shaq) and it hasn't worked out. Clashing styles of play exist all the way from management to the coach down to its players. You have management/coaching trying to play one way and core players in Nash/Amare/Leandro/JRich that want to (and have been their entire careers) play another.I think it's pretty easy to say this particular guy is the problem when the issue isn't just one person here. :wall:
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The Suns went 18-11 after Shaq was acquired with D'Antoni as the head coach. Projected out to a full season that comes to 51 wins.The Suns currently are on pace to win 45 games with Porter as the head coach. That's with Shaq playing better than he played last season. Seems to me, the primary problem isn't Shaq, it's somewhere else.

The suns were 34-14 and had the best record in the west at the time the Shaq trade was made. That's a 71% winning percentage.Their 18-11 with Shaq record is a 62% winning percentage.Even using your own stats he loses.
Thanks for posting this :bag: We can debate all day who is "the problem" in Phoenix. From owner Robert Sarver to Porter, to Kerr, to Nash, to Amare, to Shaq. When expectations of winning a title weren't reached, the decision make a change was made (Marion to Shaq) and it hasn't worked out. Clashing styles of play exist all the way from management to the coach down to its players. You have management/coaching trying to play one way and core players in Nash/Amare/Leandro/JRich that want to (and have been their entire careers) play another.I think it's pretty easy to say this particular guy is the problem when the issue isn't just one person here. :wall:
I'm not saying Shaq is the "problem." I've even acknowledged he's playing at a high level - higher than I ever expected to see him play at again. I believe the problem is simply a clash in styles. I called it a stupid trade at the time and I stand by it. The trade was a knee jerk reaction to the Gasol trade, just like the equally stupid Jason Kidd trade. And both franchises that made those knee jerk reactions are paying for it.I will note, however, that the other players were there first and the majority of players on that team are suited to the previous style of play. Shaq is really the only player better suited for a slow it down, half court style. So, to the extent that he's the only player suited to that style of play, he is the "problem." But again, the real problem was the trade and subsequent clash of player styles.
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The Suns went 18-11 after Shaq was acquired with D'Antoni as the head coach. Projected out to a full season that comes to 51 wins.

The Suns currently are on pace to win 45 games with Porter as the head coach. That's with Shaq playing better than he played last season.

Seems to me, the primary problem isn't Shaq, it's somewhere else.

The suns were 34-14 and had the best record in the west at the time the Shaq trade was made. That's a 71% winning percentage.

Their 18-11 with Shaq record is a 62% winning percentage.

Even using your own stats he loses.

Thanks for posting this :yes:

We can debate all day who is "the problem" in Phoenix. From owner Robert Sarver to Porter, to Kerr, to Nash, to Amare, to Shaq. When expectations of winning a title weren't reached, the decision make a change was made (Marion to Shaq) and it hasn't worked out.

Clashing styles of play exist all the way from management to the coach down to its players. You have management/coaching trying to play one way and core players in Nash/Amare/Leandro/JRich that want to (and have been their entire careers) play another.

I think it's pretty easy to say this particular guy is the problem when the issue isn't just one person here. :shrug:

I'm not saying Shaq is the "problem." I've even acknowledged he's playing at a high level - higher than I ever expected to see him play at again. I believe the problem is simply a clash in styles. I called it a stupid trade at the time and I stand by it. The trade was a knee jerk reaction to the Gasol trade, just like the equally stupid Jason Kidd trade. And both franchises that made those knee jerk reactions are paying for it.
:thumbup:

Agree 100% with everything. Shaq's not the problem (2nd best center this year behind Howard).....but he's not the solution (short or long term) either with the existing pieces there.

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A blurb from Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer and a thought I agree with...

No one at the Q is saying this, but the player the Cavs really want is Marcus Camby. No one is sure what the Clippers will do. GM Elgin Baylor is out and coach Mike Dunleavy is running the franchise. Camby is averaging 12.7 rebounds, 11.6 points and 2.4 blocks. He's shooting 52 percent from the field, 75 percent at the foul line. He makes $8 million this season, and it drops to $7.6 in 2009-10. He will be 35 on March 22. His defensive mind-set, mobility and long arms that make him play even taller than his 6-11 frame are perfect for the Cavs. He is the player they may be pursuing.

TP on Stoudemire...

In an interview with the Arizona Republic, Amare Stoudemire's agent (Charles Grantham) indicated his client wanted to remain in Phoenix and sign a long-term, maximum deal. If Stoudemire is traded to a team he doesn't like, then the forward will refuse to talk about an extension, as his contract expires in 2010. Stoudemire has said he'd like to play in Cleveland with James. James naturally said nice things about Stoudemire, so I guess there is a long shot this deal could happen. But I believe his defensive problems, his history of knee problems (and future contract demands) are all issues -- along with a supposedly steep price that the Suns want in return.

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A blurb from Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer and a thought I agree with...

No one at the Q is saying this, but the player the Cavs really want is Marcus Camby. No one is sure what the Clippers will do. GM Elgin Baylor is out and coach Mike Dunleavy is running the franchise. Camby is averaging 12.7 rebounds, 11.6 points and 2.4 blocks. He's shooting 52 percent from the field, 75 percent at the foul line. He makes $8 million this season, and it drops to $7.6 in 2009-10. He will be 35 on March 22. His defensive mind-set, mobility and long arms that make him play even taller than his 6-11 frame are perfect for the Cavs. He is the player they may be pursuing.

Szczerbiak for Camby and Ricky Davis works on the ESPN Trade Machine (though the Trade Machine has Camby $10MM, not the $8MM Pluto reported). CLE would probably have to include JJ Hickson, a first-round pick, or both. If LAC is desperate to cut salary and CLE wants to hang on to Wally because West and Pavlovic are both injured... Eric Snow and Hickson for Camby also works.

TP on Stoudemire...

In an interview with the Arizona Republic, Amare Stoudemire's agent (Charles Grantham) indicated his client wanted to remain in Phoenix and sign a long-term, maximum deal. If Stoudemire is traded to a team he doesn't like, then the forward will refuse to talk about an extension, as his contract expires in 2010. Stoudemire has said he'd like to play in Cleveland with James. James naturally said nice things about Stoudemire, so I guess there is a long shot this deal could happen. But I believe his defensive problems, his history of knee problems (and future contract demands) are all issues -- along with a supposedly steep price that the Suns want in return.

LeBron and Amare would run a pick-and-roll that would look like it was sent from the future. Amare's lack of defensive prowess is well-documented, but Amare's unremarkable rebounding for a guy with his physical tools is also a concern.
Agree w/ both points. Trading Hickson would suck as I think he'll be a great player in a couple years. Would be something the Cavs have to do though in order to get Camby or Stoudemire. IMO the Cavs don't have enough to get Stoudemire. Seems other teams can put together a better package for the Suns.
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The Suns went 18-11 after Shaq was acquired with D'Antoni as the head coach. Projected out to a full season that comes to 51 wins.The Suns currently are on pace to win 45 games with Porter as the head coach. That's with Shaq playing better than he played last season. Seems to me, the primary problem isn't Shaq, it's somewhere else.

The suns were 34-14 and had the best record in the west at the time the Shaq trade was made. That's a 71% winning percentage.Their 18-11 with Shaq record is a 62% winning percentage.Even using your own stats he loses.
I'm aware of their record before the trade. But the team was much better with D'Antoni as the head coach with Shaq than with Porter as the head coach with Shaq. You want to identify the Suns' problems? I suggest you start there first. If you want to say that adding Shaq didn't make the Suns a championship team, I won't argue that point. However, they weren't likely going to win a title without him. That was proven. But they shouldn't be as bad as they have been with him and they clearly weren't when they had a legitimate head coach. Adding Terry Porter made the Suns worse and you can make a strong argument that it's made them much worse given their talent. As a Bucks fan, I can tell you that nobody in Milwaukee was sad to see him go - and the Bucks were nowhere near the team Phoenix was.
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The Suns went 18-11 after Shaq was acquired with D'Antoni as the head coach. Projected out to a full season that comes to 51 wins.The Suns currently are on pace to win 45 games with Porter as the head coach. That's with Shaq playing better than he played last season. Seems to me, the primary problem isn't Shaq, it's somewhere else.

The suns were 34-14 and had the best record in the west at the time the Shaq trade was made. That's a 71% winning percentage.Their 18-11 with Shaq record is a 62% winning percentage.Even using your own stats he loses.
I'm aware of their record before the trade. But the team was much better with D'Antoni as the head coach with Shaq than with Porter as the head coach with Shaq. You want to identify the Suns' problems? I suggest you start there first. If you want to say that adding Shaq didn't make the Suns a championship team, I won't argue that point. However, they weren't likely going to win a title without him. That was proven. But they shouldn't be as bad as they have been with him and they clearly weren't when they had a legitimate head coach. Adding Terry Porter made the Suns worse and you can make a strong argument that it's made them much worse given their talent. As a Bucks fan, I can tell you that nobody in Milwaukee was sad to see him go - and the Bucks were nowhere near the team Phoenix was.
Porter's gone now, so we'll see if the Suns suddenly vault back into a top 4 team in the West.
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The Suns went 18-11 after Shaq was acquired with D'Antoni as the head coach. Projected out to a full season that comes to 51 wins.The Suns currently are on pace to win 45 games with Porter as the head coach. That's with Shaq playing better than he played last season. Seems to me, the primary problem isn't Shaq, it's somewhere else.

The suns were 34-14 and had the best record in the west at the time the Shaq trade was made. That's a 71% winning percentage.Their 18-11 with Shaq record is a 62% winning percentage.Even using your own stats he loses.
I'm aware of their record before the trade. But the team was much better with D'Antoni as the head coach with Shaq than with Porter as the head coach with Shaq. You want to identify the Suns' problems? I suggest you start there first. If you want to say that adding Shaq didn't make the Suns a championship team, I won't argue that point. However, they weren't likely going to win a title without him. That was proven. But they shouldn't be as bad as they have been with him and they clearly weren't when they had a legitimate head coach. Adding Terry Porter made the Suns worse and you can make a strong argument that it's made them much worse given their talent. As a Bucks fan, I can tell you that nobody in Milwaukee was sad to see him go - and the Bucks were nowhere near the team Phoenix was.
Porter's gone now, so we'll see if the Suns suddenly vault back into a top 4 team in the West.
Is D'Antoni coming back? If not, I wouldn't expect that to occur.
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Is D'Antoni coming back? If not, I wouldn't expect that to occur.

Jeebus. Not that D'Antoni is a bad coach but the Knicks are 20-31 and he still doesn't preach defense.
I'd say 20-31 with that sorry team is pretty damn good. More importantly, the difference between a great head coach (which D'Antoni has proven to be) and a poor one (which Porter has proven to be) is significant in my opinion. I think the biggest problem in Phoenix is they suffered a major downgrade at the head coaching position. That's not to say that's their only problem but I think it's a pretty big one. At this point, I'm not sure firing Porter is going to save their season. That team has become a mess.
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Is D'Antoni coming back? If not, I wouldn't expect that to occur.

Jeebus. Not that D'Antoni is a bad coach but the Knicks are 20-31 and he still doesn't preach defense.
I'd say 20-31 with that sorry team is pretty damn good. More importantly, the difference between a great head coach (which D'Antoni has proven to be) and a poor one (which Porter has proven to be) is significant in my opinion. I think the biggest problem in Phoenix is they suffered a major downgrade at the head coaching position. That's not to say that's their only problem but I think it's a pretty big one. At this point, I'm not sure firing Porter is going to save their season. That team has become a mess.
D'Antoni is NOT a great head coach. I stopped reading right there.
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Is D'Antoni coming back? If not, I wouldn't expect that to occur.

Jeebus. Not that D'Antoni is a bad coach but the Knicks are 20-31 and he still doesn't preach defense.
I'd say 20-31 with that sorry team is pretty damn good. More importantly, the difference between a great head coach (which D'Antoni has proven to be) and a poor one (which Porter has proven to be) is significant in my opinion. I think the biggest problem in Phoenix is they suffered a major downgrade at the head coaching position. That's not to say that's their only problem but I think it's a pretty big one. At this point, I'm not sure firing Porter is going to save their season. That team has become a mess.
D'Antoni is NOT a great head coach. I stopped reading right there.
That's fine if you disagree. There aren't many head coaches in the league I'd rank ahead of him.
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Is D'Antoni coming back? If not, I wouldn't expect that to occur.

Jeebus. Not that D'Antoni is a bad coach but the Knicks are 20-31 and he still doesn't preach defense.
I'd say 20-31 with that sorry team is pretty damn good. More importantly, the difference between a great head coach (which D'Antoni has proven to be) and a poor one (which Porter has proven to be) is significant in my opinion. I think the biggest problem in Phoenix is they suffered a major downgrade at the head coaching position. That's not to say that's their only problem but I think it's a pretty big one. At this point, I'm not sure firing Porter is going to save their season. That team has become a mess.
D'Antoni is NOT a great head coach. I stopped reading right there.
That's fine if you disagree. There aren't many head coaches in the league I'd rank ahead of him.
Ooh, I'd love to see that list.....On a more serious note, I don't see how you can consider a coach who doesn't believe in Defense a great coach. He's a good coach in that he's capable of getting a team to the playoffs. He isn't going to win any championships though.
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Is D'Antoni coming back? If not, I wouldn't expect that to occur.

Jeebus. Not that D'Antoni is a bad coach but the Knicks are 20-31 and he still doesn't preach defense.
I'd say 20-31 with that sorry team is pretty damn good. More importantly, the difference between a great head coach (which D'Antoni has proven to be) and a poor one (which Porter has proven to be) is significant in my opinion. I think the biggest problem in Phoenix is they suffered a major downgrade at the head coaching position. That's not to say that's their only problem but I think it's a pretty big one. At this point, I'm not sure firing Porter is going to save their season. That team has become a mess.
D'Antoni is NOT a great head coach. I stopped reading right there.
That's fine if you disagree. There aren't many head coaches in the league I'd rank ahead of him.
Ooh, I'd love to see that list.....On a more serious note, I don't see how you can consider a coach who doesn't believe in Defense a great coach. He's a good coach in that he's capable of getting a team to the playoffs. He isn't going to win any championships though.
Considering that only one coach a year can win the championship I don't know that not winning a title is particularly damning. The Knicks are an abortion of a team and he's still winning some games with them. Isiah destroyed that team for both the short-term and long-term so bringing them back to contention won't happen over night.
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Is D'Antoni coming back? If not, I wouldn't expect that to occur.

Jeebus. Not that D'Antoni is a bad coach but the Knicks are 20-31 and he still doesn't preach defense.
I'd say 20-31 with that sorry team is pretty damn good. More importantly, the difference between a great head coach (which D'Antoni has proven to be) and a poor one (which Porter has proven to be) is significant in my opinion. I think the biggest problem in Phoenix is they suffered a major downgrade at the head coaching position. That's not to say that's their only problem but I think it's a pretty big one. At this point, I'm not sure firing Porter is going to save their season. That team has become a mess.
D'Antoni is NOT a great head coach. I stopped reading right there.
That's fine if you disagree. There aren't many head coaches in the league I'd rank ahead of him.
Ooh, I'd love to see that list.....On a more serious note, I don't see how you can consider a coach who doesn't believe in Defense a great coach. He's a good coach in that he's capable of getting a team to the playoffs. He isn't going to win any championships though.
Considering that only one coach a year can win the championship I don't know that not winning a title is particularly damning. The Knicks are an abortion of a team and he's still winning some games with them. Isiah destroyed that team for both the short-term and long-term so bringing them back to contention won't happen over night.
First of all, NY has some good players. I expect them to be a playoff team next year. Secondly, it's not impressive to be a better coach than Isiah.
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Is D'Antoni coming back? If not, I wouldn't expect that to occur.

Jeebus. Not that D'Antoni is a bad coach but the Knicks are 20-31 and he still doesn't preach defense.
I'd say 20-31 with that sorry team is pretty damn good. More importantly, the difference between a great head coach (which D'Antoni has proven to be) and a poor one (which Porter has proven to be) is significant in my opinion. I think the biggest problem in Phoenix is they suffered a major downgrade at the head coaching position. That's not to say that's their only problem but I think it's a pretty big one. At this point, I'm not sure firing Porter is going to save their season. That team has become a mess.
D'Antoni is NOT a great head coach. I stopped reading right there.
That's fine if you disagree. There aren't many head coaches in the league I'd rank ahead of him.
Ooh, I'd love to see that list.....On a more serious note, I don't see how you can consider a coach who doesn't believe in Defense a great coach. He's a good coach in that he's capable of getting a team to the playoffs. He isn't going to win any championships though.
I was thinking the same thing, but the list ahead of him isn't that long. Even if you don't believe in his philosophy, you have to give credit where credit is due looking the post-D'Antoni Suns and pre-D'Antoni Knicks. I'm sure people were calling for Doc's head before Ainge got him players. I doubt many (if any) were saying he'd win a title.The Knicks are going to be in a solid position come summer 2010 & I expect D'Antoni to be leading that team.-------------I consider Jerry Sloan to be a great coach. I don't know that he's won an NBA championship as a coach, has he?
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