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Political Forum Closed (2 Viewers)

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Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Please use this thread if you want to discuss the closing of the Political Forum.

Do not use this to continue insulting other posters.

Please keep it civil and focused on where folks can maybe continue this type of discussion in other places on the internet.

Or if possible, I'd encourage folks to get out and do actual work that will make a difference. Volunteer for campaigns, work to educate, help with causes. That kind of thing can make an actual difference instead of typing about something.
 
Last edited:

Shutout

Footballguy
Just wanted to say I see your reasons but I also think it is a slap in the face of free speech and seems a bit like censorship-like silencing.

It feels like treating a symptom and not the disease. The country has changed and we don't always get to have our opinions voiced without being squelched anymore, it seems. Sadly, this just seems like another place added to the list. Again, I see your reasons. I, myself, back out of the forum for months at a time because of some of the vitriol experienced but while I may not agree with what others say, I always defend their right to say it and I ALWAYS kept optimism that there WAS something for anyone and everyone to learn from these interactions.
 

Zow

Footballguy
Query: can threads be created in the FFA regarding current events?

I'll provide two examples in one so that my question demonstrates the neutrality in which I ask it. Example: Trump and/or Hillary are in the news because they are investigated by the FBI (or whatever notable federal agency) for mishandling top secret documents (whether that be by recklessly using a server or keeping the documents in a private domicile). The stories are, of course, notable or of national importance. Are threads about stories of national importance permitted?

I suppose maybe a less political example but nonetheless arguably "political" would be threads about Covid-related issues (e.g. a thread about which states have mask mandates or whatever) or maybe foreign conflicts (e.g. conflict between Ukraine and Russia). Are these types of threads permitted provide posters don't let the thread(s) devolve into political slap fighting?*


*Which, obviously, may happen.
 

Zow

Footballguy
Just wanted to say I see your reasons but I also think it is a slap in the face of free speech and seems a bit like censorship-like silencing.

It feels like treating a symptom and not the disease. The country has changed and we don't always get to have our opinions voiced without being squelched anymore, it seems. Sadly, this just seems like another place added to the list. Again, I see your reasons. I, myself, back out of the forum for months at a time because of some of the vitriol experienced but while I may not agree with what others say, I always defend their right to say it and I ALWAYS kept optimism that there WAS something for anyone and everyone to learn from these interactions.
No, it's not. This is a private forum and Joe et. al. have every right to make this decision.

"Walter, this is not a First Amendment thing, man."
 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Just wanted to say I see your reasons but I also think it is a slap in the face of free speech and seems a bit like censorship-like silencing.

It feels like treating a symptom and not the disease. The country has changed and we don't always get to have our opinions voiced without being squelched anymore, it seems. Sadly, this just seems like another place added to the list. Again, I see your reasons. I, myself, back out of the forum for months at a time because of some of the vitriol experienced but while I may not agree with what others say, I always defend their right to say it and I ALWAYS kept optimism that there WAS something for anyone and everyone to learn from these interactions.

Thanks. I don't disagree with you in some ways.

I thought we could offer a meaningful way to address the "disease". I was wrong. I found I was unable to provide enough good to outweigh the bad.

I realized we were actually contributing to the problem in allowing a place for the uncoolness to happen.

Me being stubborn in thinking we could help is why the forum lasted so long.

The final part was it became obvious we couldn't even discuss things at a base level without assuming poorly of others. Or claiming they meant something other than what they said, effectively calling them liars. When we lose that base level of discussion in good faith, there isn't much left.

And mostly, it just no longer was something that fit in what we're trying to do as a business in fostering good community and discussion.

Not to say there wasn't some good. Obviously, there was. But in the end, the good was way too little compared to the bad.

I'm also not worried at all about there being places to continue political discussion on the internet. There are tons of options there for folks.
 

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
It was good when the PSF first opened to quarantine and not poison the FFA.

I think everyone here knew this day was coming and the last few years it had deteriorated and there were really no actual discussions anymore. The owners showed great restraint as they sent out multiple warnings but nothing ever changed, it only got worse.

Hopefully everyone can enjoy the FFA like the gool ole days.
 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Query: can threads be created in the FFA regarding current events?

I'll provide two examples in one so that my question demonstrates the neutrality in which I ask it. Example: Trump and/or Hillary are in the news because they are investigated by the FBI (or whatever notable federal agency) for mishandling top secret documents (whether that be by recklessly using a server or keeping the documents in a private domicile). The stories are, of course, notable or of national importance. Are threads about stories of national importance permitted?

I suppose maybe a less political example but nonetheless arguably "political" would be threads about Covid-related issues (e.g. a thread about which states have mask mandates or whatever) or maybe foreign conflicts (e.g. conflict between Ukraine and Russia). Are these types of threads permitted provide posters don't let the thread(s) devolve into political slap fighting?*


*Which, obviously, may happen.

For now, please let's say no.

Basically, any news involving a political person would be something we do not want there.

That may change in the future. But for now, please let's keep it completely political free.
 

Shutout

Footballguy
Just wanted to say I see your reasons but I also think it is a slap in the face of free speech and seems a bit like censorship-like silencing.

It feels like treating a symptom and not the disease. The country has changed and we don't always get to have our opinions voiced without being squelched anymore, it seems. Sadly, this just seems like another place added to the list. Again, I see your reasons. I, myself, back out of the forum for months at a time because of some of the vitriol experienced but while I may not agree with what others say, I always defend their right to say it and I ALWAYS kept optimism that there WAS something for anyone and everyone to learn from these interactions.
No, it's not. This is a private forum and Joe et. al. have every right to make this decision.

"Walter, this is not a First Amendment thing, man."
It is Joe's business. I agree, he can do as he wishes. Just staying an opinion as to where it feels like a person who is on , say, Twitter, and basically gets told to stop talking about something. That's not happened to me so perhaps I misread the room. And, it IS Joe's so, yes, he may do as he wishes if he doesn't want to see it. It is all fine.

But it is also Joe's business in the sense of there might be losses of viewership because of this. I am sure he is aware and weighed it out but I think there may be a number of frequent posters here who are drawn and stay on the site for good periods of time because of this very forum. Just a thought.
 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
It is Joe's business. I agree, he can do as he wishes. Just staying an opinion as to where it feels like a person who is on , say, Twitter, and basically gets told to stop talking about something. That's not happened to me so perhaps I misread the room. And, it IS Joe's so, yes, he may do as he wishes if he doesn't want to see it. It is all fine.

But it is also Joe's business in the sense of there might be losses of viewership because of this. I am sure he is aware and weighed it out but I think there may be a number of frequent posters here who are drawn and stay on the site for good periods of time because of this very forum. Just a thought.

Thanks. I'm sure there will be some negative impact on the business in not having the Political Forum. I don't know how many, but I know some people buy a premium subscription just as a way to "donate" to the forums. So I'm guessing there is something there. On the other hand, often people who get suspended say they'll never purchase a subscription again so in some ways having a forum can cost business.

All in all, it was something we factored but not in a huge way.
 

ZADO

Footballguy
in all honesty it was no different than just hearing ourselves talk and drowning everyone who didnt share your thoughts,out.
Nothing was gained ,people are dug in like the strongest ticks known to man and nothing was going to dig them out(myself included).

A true exercise in chasing the tail, nothing gained and nothing lost (except maybe some lost respect for others based on political beliefs and nothing else ,which is sad)

I feel bad for Tim , he`s gonna be lost for awhile
 

Zow

Footballguy
I got a lot from the political forum, seeing different points of views completely opposite of mine and exchanging thoughts/views/ideas I'd not have been exposed to otherwise

hope it comes back
I agree with you, Stealthy. While you and I often disagreed and conversations would get frustrating, I found benefit to them. I also liked the forum for a place to get my political news and remain aware of current issues I otherwise wouldn't be.

That said, this isn't our house so and we are, for all intents and purposes, guests here and we need to respect our hosts' wishes.
 

Don Quixote

Footballguy
I mostly stayed out of the Politics Forum for the reasons that it was closed down.

I will miss the threads about foreign political affairs though — usually avoided the debates that plagued the US politics threads, and was more informative stuff. But I get that can’t really allow one without the other.
 

Zow

Footballguy
It is Joe's business. I agree, he can do as he wishes. Just staying an opinion as to where it feels like a person who is on , say, Twitter, and basically gets told to stop talking about something. That's not happened to me so perhaps I misread the room. And, it IS Joe's so, yes, he may do as he wishes if he doesn't want to see it. It is all fine.

But it is also Joe's business in the sense of there might be losses of viewership because of this. I am sure he is aware and weighed it out but I think there may be a number of frequent posters here who are drawn and stay on the site for good periods of time because of this very forum. Just a thought.

Thanks. I'm sure there will be some negative impact on the business in not having the Political Forum. I don't know how many, but I know some people buy a premium subscription just as a way to "donate" to the forums. So I'm guessing there is something there. On the other hand, often people who get suspended say they'll never purchase a subscription again so in some ways having a forum can cost business.

All in all, it was something we factored but not in a huge way.
Yeah, @Joe Bryant I have to concede that I was genuinely surprised when I learned that these forums didn't directly produce revenue. I probably should have deduced that on my own given your effort in keeping the forums ad-free, but I didn't. My appreciation for the site went up for sure when I learned that and would encourage everybody to respect your decisions as somebody who is effectively doing us a service (and not the other way around).
 

Zow

Footballguy
I mostly stayed out of the Politics Forum for the reasons that it was closed down.

I will miss the threads about foreign political affairs though — avoided the debates that plagued the US politics threads, and was more informative stuff. But I get that can’t really allow one without the other.
This was my thought, too, when I asked the question above. I truly did get actual information from the politics forum that I wouldn't otherwise. I say this because basically FBG is the only "entertainment" (or, better put, "not work") website I look at on a given day and it was nice to have the one stop shop of fantasy football news, news regarding current events, and the lighthearted FFA (to help with a mental break from the daily work stress and seriousness).

But, obviously, if I really do find significant value in staying apprised of current events I can look elsewhere (though I suspect I won't).
 

Shutout

Footballguy
Just wanted to say I see your reasons but I also think it is a slap in the face of free speech and seems a bit like censorship-like silencing.

It feels like treating a symptom and not the disease. The country has changed and we don't always get to have our opinions voiced without being squelched anymore, it seems. Sadly, this just seems like another place added to the list. Again, I see your reasons. I, myself, back out of the forum for months at a time because of some of the vitriol experienced but while I may not agree with what others say, I always defend their right to say it and I ALWAYS kept optimism that there WAS something for anyone and everyone to learn from these interactions.

Thanks. I don't disagree with you in some ways.

I thought we could offer a meaningful way to address the "disease". I was wrong. I found I was unable to provide enough good to outweigh the bad.

I realized we were actually contributing to the problem in allowing a place for the uncoolness to happen.

Me being stubborn in thinking we could help is why the forum lasted so long.

The final part was it became obvious we couldn't even discuss things at a base level without assuming poorly of others. Or claiming they meant something other than what they said, effectively calling them liars. When we lose that base level of discussion in good faith, there isn't much left.

And mostly, it just no longer was something that fit in what we're trying to do as a business in fostering good community and discussion.

Not to say there wasn't some good. Obviously, there was. But in the end, the good was way too little compared to the bad.

I'm also not worried at all about there being places to continue political discussion on the internet. There are tons of options there for folks.
Thanks @Joe Bryant . I am sure it was a difficult process to work through. I sincerely hope it meets your desired results. Just my 2 cents, but it concerns me a bit because in a business built for discussion and relying on topics people are interested in getting together to discuss in order to drive traffic, it is definitely noticeable that you just shut down a major "drawer". Good or bad, politics and the fringe topics in society that all seem inseparably intertwined with politics these days seemed to put a lot of butts in the seats on the site.

I mean no ill will and hope no offense is taken by that statement but think it is worth considering (as I am sure you have). In all honestly, I think it will be extremely difficult to keep many, many FFA threads from devolving into political on some level, requiring a lot of moderation. And if by some way everyone IS able to leave all things politics out of it, how many "top beers of october" and "Post your favorite silent movie" here will it take to absorb the void? Like it or not, these last 3-6 years have literally rewired how a lot of people view many things in life. Ten years ago, we didn't have legitimate polls on "will you date someone form an opposing political party". Now we do. It has become very ingrained into the fabric of our society.
 

Zegras11

Footballguy
I doubt it's a major drawer. People come to FBG for fantasy football information. That info can still be discussed in the Shark pool.

I'm sure it was a tough decision. I know it was a well thought out decision.

Business wise, look at the incredible number of employee man hours the business gets back to producing revenue instead of baby sitting.
 

Shutout

Footballguy
I doubt it's a major drawer. People come to FBG for fantasy football information. That info can still be discussed in the Shark pool.

I'm sure it was a tough decision. I know it was a well thought out decision.

Business wise, look at the incredible number of employee man hours the business gets back to producing revenue instead of baby sitting.
Good point and I admittedly am probably putting too much stock into one forum because I found this website as a FF player but I don't play FF anymore. I overlook the fact that most people here are still primarily FF guys and not looking for a one-stop place. Thanks.
 

Shutout

Footballguy
Smart decision, Joe.

I know politics are interesting and a hobby for many, but given the division in our society right now, it's not the best use of our time and energy.
Yeah, probably right. One way or another, two weeks from now would have probably broken some people anyway and caused some chaos.
 
I'm also not worried at all about there being places to continue political discussion on the internet. There are tons of options there for folks.
I would be interested in hearing about places on the internet where there is moderated discussion between people with wildly different views. My impression is that the PSF was actually a pretty unique place on the internet for those sorts of discussions.

I just want to take this opportunity to thank all the conservative posters here that have posted their views here. Despite all the flaws of the PSF, I feel like having the opportunity to civilly engage with people outside my bubble has been an incredibly positive thing for me in my life and has made me a much better teacher.

I’m still processing what it means for me that my favorite subjects to talk about are now banned from the place where I’ve spent countless hours talking about them for over 20 years. I’ll probably have some more thoughts about this over the next few days.
 

Zow

Footballguy
Smart decision, Joe.

I know politics are interesting and a hobby for many, but given the division in our society right now, it's not the best use of our time and energy.
Eh, I disagree. I found it beneficial to discuss politics in a medium such as this (where people can be more open) so I could experience a clear understanding of why people view issues differently than I do. I find in real life, people mostly will just smile and nod and not openly disagree with something out of sheer politeness. While that leads to more pleasant interactions, it does not enhance discourse in a time where our country is seemingly more socially and politically divided than past decades.
 

TheMagus

Footballguy
Bummer. Understandable as the writing has been on the wall for this happening for a while now, but still sucks. Got most of my news from here.

I basically got all of my news from here. I don't use social media and I don't have the time or patience to weed through all the news sites to figure out what is happening in the world (and what's real versus slanted/biased/exaggerated). Especially the last few years I have been so busy at work and would spend all day locked in my basement office. At the end of the day I would think that a nuclear war had started and I would have no idea so I would just come here and scan the thread titles knowing that if something big happened it would be at the top of the page. :biggrin:
 

squistion

Footballguy
:no:

Looks like the bad guys won (just stating my opinion, folks). There are people who didn't want a politics forum created or politics discussed anywhere on any of these forums (don't know how they cope in real life, but I digress).

This "solution" is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Instead of suspending or permabanning those who trolled multiple threads on a daily basis, the response is to shut down the forum and punish everyone, instead of the troublemakers.

And course this won't actually eliminate all discussion of politics, which can bleed into the discussion of almost any subject. It will be fun, however, to see the extra work for the mods as they play Whac-A-Mole trying to keep politics out of threads.
 

Zow

Footballguy
Bummer. Understandable as the writing has been on the wall for this happening for a while now, but still sucks. Got most of my news from here.

I basically got all of my news from here. I don't use social media and I don't have the time or patience to weed through all the news sites to figure out what is happening in the world (and what's real versus slanted/biased/exaggerated). Especially the last few years I have been so busy at work and would spend all day locked in my basement office. At the end of the day I would think that a nuclear war had started and I would have no idea so I would just come here and scan the thread titles knowing that if something big happened it would be at the top of the page. :biggrin:
Ditto.
 

dkp993

Footballguy
Bummer. Understandable as the writing has been on the wall for this happening for a while now, but still sucks. Got most of my news from here.

I basically got all of my news from here. I don't use social media and I don't have the time or patience to weed through all the news sites to figure out what is happening in the world (and what's real versus slanted/biased/exaggerated). Especially the last few years I have been so busy at work and would spend all day locked in my basement office. At the end of the day I would think that a nuclear war had started and I would have no idea so I would just come here and scan the thread titles knowing that if something big happened it would be at the top of the page. :biggrin:
Yep
 

MTskibum

Footballguy

massraider

Footballguy
Excellent.

You guys did more than you should have in keeping it operational. There are many sites where it's no politics, ever. At the end of it all, you are businessmen running a fantasy site for profit, who needs the headache?

Keep it closed, the trolls will find somewhere else to be miserable.
 
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