shadrap
Footballguy
I always liked your style & information. You also always kept your cool & responded in a professional manner. same with zow.
thanx
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Political Forum Closed (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
- Status
thanx
gianmarco
Footballguy
Haven't ventured there in a long time. Just happened to see this (btw, not as noticeable as it might need to be as I don't usually check the pinned section, so maybe consider having an open thread about this as well that isn't pinned).
One thought I had that might help is having a political thread in the FFA. This will serve a few functions:
1. Instead of an entire subforum to police, it's just one catch-all thread.
2. For those that just HAVE to discuss politics and/or enjoy what it can bring, it gives them one tiny corner here.
3. Being in just one thread will make it very easy to moderate. Anyone being uncool and not excellent gets axed. Everyone will know that thread will be watched very closely. Visit at your own peril.
4. #3 will help to actually weed out some of those that just want to troll and cause trouble.
5. It'll serve as an exercise to show that people CAN behave themselves knowing the consequences.
Not saying this needs to be opened up today, but maybe in a week or two, give it a shot. And would be simple to pull the plug if it starts off on the wrong foot without much inconvenience for anyone.
This is coming from someone that has no desire to discuss politics here anymore.
One thought I had that might help is having a political thread in the FFA. This will serve a few functions:
1. Instead of an entire subforum to police, it's just one catch-all thread.
2. For those that just HAVE to discuss politics and/or enjoy what it can bring, it gives them one tiny corner here.
3. Being in just one thread will make it very easy to moderate. Anyone being uncool and not excellent gets axed. Everyone will know that thread will be watched very closely. Visit at your own peril.
4. #3 will help to actually weed out some of those that just want to troll and cause trouble.
5. It'll serve as an exercise to show that people CAN behave themselves knowing the consequences.
Not saying this needs to be opened up today, but maybe in a week or two, give it a shot. And would be simple to pull the plug if it starts off on the wrong foot without much inconvenience for anyone.
This is coming from someone that has no desire to discuss politics here anymore.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I stopped visiting the PSF after the 2020 election. The bad far outweighed the good - by a lot. Toxic doesn't even begin to describe it. Closing it is the right move for FBGs.
People who want that kind of thing should start a board dedicated to that, it's not on FBGs to supply it for them.
People who want that kind of thing should start a board dedicated to that, it's not on FBGs to supply it for them.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Thanks. We considered a single political thread in the FFA but chose not to do that.
1. I don't want any politics in the FFA.
2. I think it would turn into the same thing we had in the political forum with the snark and condescension and accusations of bad faith. Just in one thread. Which might be even worse.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
I liked it, too, and I don't even live in FL.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
This x 1000
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Agreed on both counts. I have always admired BB’s maturity (and vocals!). Woz also comes off very measured in his responses and tends to make me look at something from an angle that I did not think of.
Hmmm… I have an idea for a thread.
squistion
Footballguy
I'm totally on "board" with this. I spent too much time in there anyways.
And for those of you calling out "the bad guys" and "trolls", I don't think you realize that you're part of the problem. Most of us were, including myself.
And @squistion - you called for banning or suspending posters instead of getting rid of the PSF, but I don't think you realize that you most likely would be on the outside looking in yourself. Just like me. But that's the cognitive dissonance that I'm referring too. Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.
Anyways, the PSF will not be missed by this poster and I completely understand the decision to shut it down.
There is no doubt in my mind about that.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Can you move the Russia/Ukraine thread? Or merge it with the FFA thread? It's 99% non-political and there's a ton of great info in there.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
The "Similar Threads" suggestions just aren't all that similar for some reason.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Yeah that was a pretty good one. Especially my posts. I'll miss those the most.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
and links to those places
Stealthycat
Footballguy
when i was going through my divorce, I found a large forum and hundreds of people put their opinions/thoughts on my thread
completely anonymous strangers ..... and because of that, they could give their 100% honest opinions without worrying about hurting my feelings, offending me, hurting our relationship etc
that honesty - and ability to talk freely ............ its something most people never get to have because everyone is reserved in their discussions in the real world in one way or the other I think
cudjoekey10
Footballguy
I thought that was a one-off, extreme suspension because someone was having a bad day. I guess not. You hear much much worse expressions than that in PG movies.More time to stop out the humor and fun in the rest of the threads
A poster was suspended yesterday in the FFA for talking about having sex with a woman as "riding her like a scooter". If that's the "humor" and "fun" you're looking for, we're not the forum for you.
Holy smokes how does anyone last here?
cudjoekey10
Footballguy
I really like this place but the G nature of it will get me eventually.
Who knows how to set up a Discord forum?
Who knows how to set up a Discord forum?
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Looks like the bad guys won (just stating my opinion, folks). There are people who didn't want a politics forum created or politics discussed anywhere on any of these forums (don't know how they cope in real life, but I digress).
This "solution" is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Instead of suspending or permabanning those who trolled multiple threads on a daily basis, the response is to shut down the forum and punish everyone, instead of the troublemakers.
And course this won't actually eliminate all discussion of politics, which can bleed into the discussion of almost any subject. It will be fun, however, to see the extra work for the mods as they play Whac-A-Mole trying to keep politics out of threads.
Bad guys won? Never understood that thought process.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
My god what a glorious train wreck that would be. Just make it this thread - no one cares about this forum. Win-win.
Is this easy to do? It might be a good idea. If anyone does this, post the link here. Just don't use "Footballguys" or "FBG" (or anything similar) in the name of the subreddit.
cudjoekey10
Footballguy
Sounds like it would be very Lord of the Fliesesq. Or maybe a better comparison would be Squid Games? Or how about The Hunger Games?
LawFitz
Footballguy
Even though I cringe at the way the PSF vibed when I spent time there, I do appreciate it as a place where people felt free to speak their true feelings and views, rather than hiding them behind real-life veils. Generally more candid views about so many (albeit too many very divisive) topics made PSF an intriguing arbiter of people's truest/deepest-seeded views and beliefs. There are absolutely places for that kind of 'real' in this vast world and internet. I'm just fairly sure those places don't junction well with the brand, community and vibe FBG is trying to build.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Well said.
ZADO
Footballguy
Politics bring out the worst in some people .
The entire country is being torn to pieces by politics , families , friends , husbands and wives , all fighting and swearing each other off over the crazy differences in opinions .
That whole forum started to read like a politer version of twitter ,and thats me being nice .
The entire country is being torn to pieces by politics , families , friends , husbands and wives , all fighting and swearing each other off over the crazy differences in opinions .
That whole forum started to read like a politer version of twitter ,and thats me being nice .
GoBirds
Footballguy
Agreed, and for the record I like Tim and dont think he and his followers are bad.
Looks like the bad guys won (just stating my opinion, folks). There are people who didn't want a politics forum created or politics discussed anywhere on any of these forums (don't know how they cope in real life, but I digress).
This "solution" is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Instead of suspending or permabanning those who trolled multiple threads on a daily basis, the response is to shut down the forum and punish everyone, instead of the troublemakers.
And course this won't actually eliminate all discussion of politics, which can bleed into the discussion of almost any subject. It will be fun, however, to see the extra work for the mods as they play Whac-A-Mole trying to keep politics out of threads.
Bad guys won? Never understood that thought process.
waiver wire
Footballguy
it is a shame as I came here for breaking news and get insight from different perspectives.
There was some very smart people and excellent writers in here and I learned alot about subjects that I wasnt that versed in
I just never understood why some people had to reply to everyone that they knew would never have a conversation with them which would cause threads to be ruined .
all they had to do was ignore the user or just read their comment and scroll by
There was some very smart people and excellent writers in here and I learned alot about subjects that I wasnt that versed in
I just never understood why some people had to reply to everyone that they knew would never have a conversation with them which would cause threads to be ruined .
all they had to do was ignore the user or just read their comment and scroll by
Phil Elliott
Footballguy
<black dot>
The PSF was a decent place to get political news.
Now that the forum is locked, the news there will mostly be pretty stale.
If you're looking for alternatives, here are some suggestions.
The Wikipedia current events portal will give you daily news with a strong international flavor.
For news and commentary from a left-leaning perspective, I like WaPo and TheAtlantic, as well as my Twitter list of legal commentators (not always left-leaning, but more left than right).
For news and commentary from a right-leaning (but non-Trumpist) perspective, I like The Dispatch and The Bulwark.
(I don't know of any good publications from a Trumpist perspective.)
For news and commentary trying to summarize things from both left-leaning and right-leaning perspectives, try: Ground News, Tangle, or What the Other Side Is Saying.
Now that the forum is locked, the news there will mostly be pretty stale.
If you're looking for alternatives, here are some suggestions.
The Wikipedia current events portal will give you daily news with a strong international flavor.
For news and commentary from a left-leaning perspective, I like WaPo and TheAtlantic, as well as my Twitter list of legal commentators (not always left-leaning, but more left than right).
For news and commentary from a right-leaning (but non-Trumpist) perspective, I like The Dispatch and The Bulwark.
(I don't know of any good publications from a Trumpist perspective.)
For news and commentary trying to summarize things from both left-leaning and right-leaning perspectives, try: Ground News, Tangle, or What the Other Side Is Saying.
rustycolts
Footballguy
Just started reading it again. I got to page 6 so far. You know what not one single insult launched in any of those 6 pages. Not even when covid made its first appearance. 6 pages without an insult. Thats hard to believe if your familiar with the rest of PSF. To bad the rest of the forum couldn't behave that way.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
How do you think the people behaved that wanted to get it shutdown?
Notice how they don't seem to be bothered about the decision to shut er down? Even kind of celebrating it
Yeah. I didn't use to buy into the conspiracy. After a certain response in here, I have reconsidered that conclusion.
How do you think the people behaved that wanted to get it shutdown?
Notice how they don't seem to be bothered about the decision to shut er down? Even kind of celebrating it
So you don`t believe Joe when he said it had nothing to do with it?
JB is a family man and business owner. If you have followed, he was going to do this a couple years ago.
The whole forum turned into "gotchas" "whatchaboutisms" "my side good, your side bad"
Say whatever reason you want but the warning signs have been there for years. There are 400 pages arguing about Kaepernick and he has not played in 6 years for gods sakes. "Tell me more about Ron Desantis" That was a tribal trolling train wreck of a thread just to name a couple.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
I remember being in the FFA very briefly around the time the PSF was created. The entire section was ugly. People were dragging their personal politics into close to every thread. The bad blood spilled out into personal attacks in 1 Vs 1 personal disputes within other threads.
I don't talk politics in the FFA. I didn't talk politics in the Shark Pool. I would delve into ancillary issues over time like Michael Sam, the Rooney Rule, Michael Vick in the dogs, Ray Rice and the elevator, things of that nature that are impossible to discuss without some content that leans to some political viewpoints. But I'm not part of whatever happened where the FFA was bombarded with political strife. There were and are two pinned threads in the PSF talking about deleting all the forums and all the problems that political conflict was causing. I wasn't here for that. I'm not going to say I was some saint back in the 2007-2009 era of the forums in the FFA, but the rules were different back then, the tone, the members participating. I understand there are some things I said in 2008 that I can't say today. Stuff like that happens.
Main issues
1) There are people who are/were regulars in the current forums, mostly the PSF, who do and say things that would get them permanently banned almost anywhere else in any other discussion community on the Internet. If you won't fumigate, then you have to abandon the house itself. That's it, it's that simple.
2) People have shown over time, enough of them but not all of them, that they can't talk politics civilly. Or controversial subjects. (I've got like 3200 total posts in probably 16 years where I was likely completely gone for like 11 of those, but there are low value posters here with 10s of thousands of posts doing the same toxic crap over and over for how many years?) You want to restart what's proven not to work? The truth is it would send the wrong message to shut down the PSF then restart it later. That kind of decision would only imply that the worst bad faith actors are being rewarded
3) Practical active current high level political discussion is not and was not ever rewarded in the PSF. Good posters were not rewarded for being good posters. Bad posters were rewarded for being bad posters. We can parse out the who and why but why do that because the PSF is locked now. It's not going to change anything. You want proof? Good posters left. Bad posters stayed and spread their reach.
4) It's bad for business as a matter of principle. Joe Bryant has come out and said it causes him stress and personal grief. For his own well being, I'd like to think people here would just let the PSF go and respect that decision and be grateful for the time it did exist if they liked it or did once like it. I'm not sure why anyone would advocate for something that is going to cause Joe more mental and emotional duress. That's not personal to you, but people were given lots of chances and took the PSF for granted.
I have no regrets. If the end goal was a "Grantland" style hub for complex political discussion, then for two years, I did my part. Some people might not have enjoyed it nor agreed with my viewpoints, but in terms of heavy lifting, I actually did way more than my part.
I made the most of it while it was here, and now that it's gone, I'll accept that it's time to move on to something else. Joe Bryant and FBG owe me nothing. All I ever wanted was a clear pathway for diversity of thought and diversity of opinion without constant attack.
If it was up to me, and it's not, anyone who talks politics ever again should just getting banned.
It's unfathomable to me, but predictable, that folks can't just say "Hey Thank You, Joe Bryant and David Dodds for FBG, and for the PSF while it lasted" and just move on over something that has nothing to do with football, fantasy, winning leagues or daily, sports in general or these guys trying to put food on the table for their kids.
Yup. And there were plenty of different perspectives too.
It was the ones that claimed it was a bubble/echo chamber that typically had the adversarial style posting that are pumping their first now that it's gone.
Super easy. You should totally do it and create a forum that fits what you're looking for.
I don't see much cheering that it's closed. I think there are several people who thought it was the right move.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
I believe Joe. I also now wonder the motives of a certain poster. Those aren't mutually exclusive.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I would go into the political forum and usually not post but occasionally get involved in a discussion for a little bit and then leave it alone for a few days because I would find myself and others just reiterating the same points.
Overall I think it is probably good to get rid of it because there were posters that constantly sniping at each other. Life is too short for that...
Overall I think it is probably good to get rid of it because there were posters that constantly sniping at each other. Life is too short for that...
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Well, I highly doubt they make decisions based on any single poster.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
I'm not saying any decision was made because of a poster. I'm not referring to the decision at all. Simply that information from this thread has made me reconsider my position about the conspiracy. No biggie.
Don't worry, Joe. I'm not going to call anyone out. She knows who she is.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Your post right here is an example of why it was shutdown, btw.
How do you think the people behaved that wanted to get it shutdown?
Notice how they don't seem to be bothered about the decision to shut er down? Even kind of celebrating it
Again, not absolving myself, but not only do you have ZERO introspection at all, but also you just literally blamed everyone who doesn't mind it being shut down as having some nefarious intent regarding the PSF. That is EXACTLY what Joe and his team said we shouldn't do and one of the reasons as to why it was shut down.
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BladeRunner
Footballguy
Excellent series of books. Adams is awesome.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
I think in a few months we will look back at the topics, laugh and wonder why we even bothered. Myself included.
HellToupee
Footballguy
This thought is part of the reason it was shutdown, imo
It's possible that the PSF could have survived with better moderation. Sorry about that.
It was extremely difficult to get everyone to discuss issues of substance instead of discussing other posters' perceived shortcomings. For a while, I had the idea that suspending people for posting personal barbs (which are always inherently off-topic to any thread) would be effective, but doing so consistently was beyond our means, and doing so inconsistently (i.e., arbitrarily) didn't help.
I have since reconsidered that idea, and now think that the key to good discussions is making copious use of the ignore function. By shutting the PSF down, we are essentially forcing everybody in that forum to put everybody else in that forum on ignore. This is a decent solution, but arguably goes a little far. If we ever open the PSF back up, I would propose this rule: Anytime someone comments about another poster instead of commenting about the topic at hand, that person shall be forced to permanently ignore the poster they commented about. In my fantasy, that would solve the issue and we'd all live happily ever after. (Maybe we'll never know, and maybe that's for the best.)
It was extremely difficult to get everyone to discuss issues of substance instead of discussing other posters' perceived shortcomings. For a while, I had the idea that suspending people for posting personal barbs (which are always inherently off-topic to any thread) would be effective, but doing so consistently was beyond our means, and doing so inconsistently (i.e., arbitrarily) didn't help.
I have since reconsidered that idea, and now think that the key to good discussions is making copious use of the ignore function. By shutting the PSF down, we are essentially forcing everybody in that forum to put everybody else in that forum on ignore. This is a decent solution, but arguably goes a little far. If we ever open the PSF back up, I would propose this rule: Anytime someone comments about another poster instead of commenting about the topic at hand, that person shall be forced to permanently ignore the poster they commented about. In my fantasy, that would solve the issue and we'd all live happily ever after. (Maybe we'll never know, and maybe that's for the best.)
The Commish
Footballguy
One of your more endearing qualities is your optimism....that goes for Joe too. With the exception of Cappy (and a couple others) in this thread, those lauding that forum's shutdown and saying it's a great move spent COPIOUS amounts of time in a forum they claimed was a "cesspool" or "echo chamber" or whatever negative label they could throw at it. Unless you have a way to MAKE them put each other on ignore and KEEP each other on ignore, that's not going to work. The codependence is too much. They can't quit each other.
moleculo
Footballguy
that raises another question: without political discussion, is it prudent to revisit my ignore list?
hmm....
glvsav37
Footballguy
Although I have not been here as much as I was a few months ago, I'm sorry to see the forum go. While there was some deep lines drawn between posters, and I have my own biasis and ideas on tipocs, it was good to know that I could come here and see the opposite view and sometimes it blunted mine.
I've said many times, one reason I think we are as divided as we are is b/c social media has forced us into silos of similar information. Go on anyone's SM feed and you can clearly see what side they are on....and there is nothing from the other. This is soooo bad IMO b/c we are physically choking out voices that make us think. Soon we are just parroting the same talking points, idiotic memes and doubling down on falsehoods.
At least here I could get a well rounded view of things and there have been times when I wanted to post with my dead-set ideas, only to step back and rethink things after reading a few posts. Also, I can only speak for myself, the fact that many of us have been on these boards for years, and converse with each other on normal life FFA topics, that while we may be politically opposed, I still saw them as normal people that I could have a beer with and help plan a Disney vacation for. Unlike other forms of SM where "they" are just an avatar and not a real person. I know @The Commish and I have had a few debates, but in the end, we can high five, agree to disagree and move on. Likewise, I never felt threatened for my opinions here and IMO even safer expressing them here than in the real world.
I know we are a very small community here, but my fear of closing these forums will further push people into deeper echo chambers where only their side's talking points are reinforced. No disrespect to @Maurile Tremblay but the post above is providing either left or right-leaning outlets. I get it, but I found this forum the best place to read and digest both sides, providing you came in with some open-mindedness.
Overall, this is just another casualty of our current society and makes me even madder that our gov't has us in such a state.
I've said many times, one reason I think we are as divided as we are is b/c social media has forced us into silos of similar information. Go on anyone's SM feed and you can clearly see what side they are on....and there is nothing from the other. This is soooo bad IMO b/c we are physically choking out voices that make us think. Soon we are just parroting the same talking points, idiotic memes and doubling down on falsehoods.
At least here I could get a well rounded view of things and there have been times when I wanted to post with my dead-set ideas, only to step back and rethink things after reading a few posts. Also, I can only speak for myself, the fact that many of us have been on these boards for years, and converse with each other on normal life FFA topics, that while we may be politically opposed, I still saw them as normal people that I could have a beer with and help plan a Disney vacation for. Unlike other forms of SM where "they" are just an avatar and not a real person. I know @The Commish and I have had a few debates, but in the end, we can high five, agree to disagree and move on. Likewise, I never felt threatened for my opinions here and IMO even safer expressing them here than in the real world.
I know we are a very small community here, but my fear of closing these forums will further push people into deeper echo chambers where only their side's talking points are reinforced. No disrespect to @Maurile Tremblay but the post above is providing either left or right-leaning outlets. I get it, but I found this forum the best place to read and digest both sides, providing you came in with some open-mindedness.
Overall, this is just another casualty of our current society and makes me even madder that our gov't has us in such a state.
Yes, they are patting you in the back for doing as they wanted. Great job.
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