Political Forum Closed (1 Viewer)

[quick-hands]

does anyone think some sort of conspiracy is afoot? FBG PSF shut down on same day Elon Musk takes over Twitter. what are the powers that be hiding?

Just 2 weeks before red wave mid terms and shortly after Tim stormed off, so many conspiracies in play.

he knew the forum would collapse without him.

 

[MAC_32]

The PSF was great because it housed the most deplorable people imaginable and tended to keep them out of the FFA. I can't imagine the reason why you don't just ban the deplorables and leave things be as a honey pot. Could it be one of the owners was an OG Q Pizzagater? Nah.

It's not difficult to figure out the bad faith actors that populated that (cess)pool. While I'm sure some of them just lack the self awareness to realize they're toxic any good decision maker could spot them from a mile away. Not doing anything about them fostered that environment. You're either coaching it or allowing it to happen, right? Don't get me wrong - I don't fault the site's decision makers for pulling the plug and opting to just not deal with it. I'm just saying this outcome was inevitable if there was never any intention on taking action against the obvious problems.

 

[GoBirds]

Just created a subreddit for some politics, yoga pants, and other things that aren't appropriate here. I say some politics, because I don't want to foster another social media enragement apparatus. There will be little to no tolerance for ad hominem attacks, sweeping generalizations, and anecdotes used to vilify the other side. This could still serve as a nice place to discuss larger scale stuff like the Ukraine War, elections, inflation, etc.

Link

I've got this set up as a closed community where only approved members can post. I'm not really sure what the approval process entails, so there will be a bit of a learning curve here. I'd like to have balanced moderation, so if there's a moderate conservative who would like to volunteer, let me know.

@squistion could be a fit and is looking for political chatter?

 

[jamny]

As has been mentioned, Joe asked politely that any reference to FBG be kept out of any alternate discussion boards. I'd be willing to help out but not if it goes against that request.

Ahh, good point. My bad. Let me see if I can change it without deleting it. If not, I may set up a discord instead. I don't like that you can't post pictures in the comments on reddit.

I don't think you can change the name or delete the board once created.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I don't think you can change the name or delete the board once created.

Yep, you're right. I deleted everything and will leave it barren.

Here's a discord I set up. Discord invite

It's much easier to create separate topic threads and post pics over there. Let me know if anyone has a problem getting in.

 

[PIK95]

It is Joe's business. I agree, he can do as he wishes. Just staying an opinion as to where it feels like a person who is on , say, Twitter, and basically gets told to stop talking about something. That's not happened to me so perhaps I misread the room. And, it IS Joe's so, yes, he may do as he wishes if he doesn't want to see it. It is all fine.

But it is also Joe's business in the sense of there might be losses of viewership because of this. I am sure he is aware and weighed it out but I think there may be a number of frequent posters here who are drawn and stay on the site for good periods of time because of this very forum. Just a thought.

Thanks. I'm sure there will be some negative impact on the business in not having the Political Forum. I don't know how many, but I know some people buy a premium subscription just as a way to "donate" to the forums. So I'm guessing there is something there. On the other hand, often people who get suspended say they'll never purchase a subscription again so in some ways having a forum can cost business.

All in all, it was something we factored but not in a huge way.

I doubt you experience the level of poster loss with the political forum as you did with the yoga pants thread. This place died that day imo.

 

[The General]

Wow. Very sad to see the forum go.

Read through this entire thread, even the people I had blocked , and I guess I simply just didn’t see many of the problems listed out or I didn’t process them in the same way. So maybe I’m a bit of an odd duck there.

Political topics are by nature going to be divisive topics that are difficult and complex to discuss. This isn’t a bad thing. Getting above the noise of certain posters you didn’t care to interact with wasn’t hard (you could refuse to engage or block). If you did there were many threads that were fantastic. People are not going to agree on any number of topics, political views aren’t different. It’s fine to disagree and sometimes disagreeing gets a little sloppy.

In my view the forum did a pretty great job being a spot to talk, argue, joke, post about topics that I wouldn’t discuss with co-workers, randos at the bar, my in-laws, etc.

The pinned thread at the top with the rules from MT pretty much laid it out. Banning posters more liberally would be the route I’d take.

I do get the constant mod work would be a huge pain and listening to crying by grown men is probably soul crushing. For that work I tip my hat. For my part if I contributed to that in any way I sincerely apologize and if any mod is in Seattle beers are on me.

If anyone starts a subreddit or whatever that is and wouldn’t mind me participating…please @ me. I would appreciate it.

Peace!!

 

[Captain Cranks]

If anyone starts a subreddit or whatever that is and wouldn’t mind me participating…please @ me. I would appreciate it.

@The General Stop in here... https://discord.gg/3MHqxXp2

 

[quick-hands]

The PSF was great because it housed the most deplorable people imaginable and tended to keep them out of the FFA. I can't imagine the reason why you don't just ban the deplorables and leave things be as a honey pot. Could it be one of the owners was an OG Q Pizzagater? Nah.

that is the kind of comment that should get you permabanned. deplorable people? care to name names.

 

[Captain Cranks]

A message from Tim...

“Hey I’ve been suspended or Id do this myself. Just wanted you guys to know I really enjoyed talking issues with almost all of you-even the arguments. I’ve encountered some really cool people here on all sides and learned a lot. And I apologize if I’ve contributed in any way to the forum being shut down. Best wishes to everyone and I hope to encounter you all at some point in the FFA where I plan to continue future song lists and chess tournaments.”

 

[Summer Wheat]

A message from Tim...

“Hey I’ve been suspended or Id do this myself. Just wanted you guys to know I really enjoyed talking issues with almost all of you-even the arguments. I’ve encountered some really cool people here on all sides and learned a lot. And I apologize if I’ve contributed in any way to the forum being shut down. Best wishes to everyone and I hope to encounter you all at some point in the FFA where I plan to continue future song lists and chess tournaments.”

In reality Tim is probably happier and his family life is better not being here 24-7. It turned into virtual addiction for him.

 

[Amused to Death]

The PSF was great because it housed the most deplorable people imaginable and tended to keep them out of the FFA. I can't imagine the reason why you don't just ban the deplorables and leave things be as a honey pot. Could it be one of the owners was an OG Q Pizzagater? Nah.

that is the kind of comment that should get you permabanned. deplorable people? care to name names.

Agreed, and yet Dems were called "illiterate" and "borderline re****ded". Posts were reported, nothing was done. Seems after J6, the mods were worn out. Just my perception.

 

[culdeus]

The PSF was great because it housed the most deplorable people imaginable and tended to keep them out of the FFA. I can't imagine the reason why you don't just ban the deplorables and leave things be as a honey pot. Could it be one of the owners was an OG Q Pizzagater? Nah.

that is the kind of comment that should get you permabanned. deplorable people? care to name names.

I don't go to the PSF, I appreciated it being here to act as a bug zapper. Thanks for asking though.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Good riddance. I think perma banning those that can’t control themselves is warranted as well. don’t give it a second thought @Joe Bryant . It’s the right decision.

 

[unckeyherb]

Bummer. I enjoyed the PSF but also self quarantined for months at a time. Probably the wrong move to blow it up IMO, but totally understand.

I agree that this will be a net positive in the life experience of Tim.

Thanks Joe for keeping it running as long as it did.

 

[ZADO]

I wonder if i`ll get swarmed for being a Raiders fan just out of boredom

 

[GoBirds]

The PSF was great because it housed the most deplorable people imaginable and tended to keep them out of the FFA. I can't imagine the reason why you don't just ban the deplorables and leave things be as a honey pot. Could it be one of the owners was an OG Q Pizzagater? Nah.

that is the kind of comment that should get you permabanned. deplorable people? care to name names.

Yep then pointing blame in the exact opposite direction of the problem, as expected.

 

[General Malaise]

No chance this would be allowed.

Agreed.

SMH.

So a report of any mass shooting is verboten too?

What did you do before you stumbled upon FBG to discuss these sorts of topics?

 

[GoBirds]

A message from Tim...

“Hey I’ve been suspended or Id do this myself. Just wanted you guys to know I really enjoyed talking issues with almost all of you-even the arguments. I’ve encountered some really cool people here on all sides and learned a lot. And I apologize if I’ve contributed in any way to the forum being shut down. Best wishes to everyone and I hope to encounter you all at some point in the FFA where I plan to continue future song lists and chess tournaments.”

In reality Tim is probably happier and his family life is better not being here 24-7. It turned into virtual addiction for him.

Good point, I think in time he will look back and agree. Not just Tim, the environment created was very unhealthy all around he was just on an extreme end.

 

[General Malaise]

Just created a subreddit for some politics, yoga pants, and other things that aren't appropriate here. I say some politics, because I don't want to foster another social media enragement apparatus. There will be little to no tolerance for ad hominem attacks, sweeping generalizations, and anecdotes used to vilify the other side. This could still serve as a nice place to discuss larger scale stuff like the Ukraine War, elections, inflation, etc.

Link

I've got this set up as a closed community where only approved members can post. I'm not really sure what the approval process entails, so there will be a bit of a learning curve here. I'd like to have balanced moderation, so if there's a moderate conservative who would like to volunteer, let me know.

I've never once posted on Reddit, but I've created a username and shall try my hand at gaining approval.

I nominate Fatguy to moderate.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I'm totally on "board" with this. I spent too much time in there anyways.

And for those of you calling out "the bad guys" and "trolls", I don't think you realize that you're part of the problem. Most of us were, including myself.

And @squistion - you called for banning or suspending posters instead of getting rid of the PSF, but I don't think you realize that you most likely would be on the outside looking in yourself. Just like me. But that's the cognitive dissonance that I'm referring too. Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.

Anyways, the PSF will not be missed by this poster and I completely understand the decision to shut it down.

My go-to analogy over the past few years (mostly in reference to Russia's disinformation campaign, but I think it applies here as well) is the Stephen King novel "Needful Things". The premise is that the Devil shows up in a small Maine town and starts stirring up all kinds of #### among the townsfolk. But the key point is that he doesn't create new hatreds, he just exploits what's already there.

On the one hand, I think a lot of the bad aspects of the PSF were a result of high-volume ####posters who were more interested in arguing with/insulting other posters than discussing issues. IMHO one mistake the moderators made was viewing suspensions under a criminal-justice paradigm. The cops can only arrest you if you've committed a specific crime, and AFAIK, the moderators only suspended people for specific posts. I think they should have viewed the problem more holistically, looked at the posters who were dragging the level of discourse down, and pre-emptively permabanned them. Tim is the ultimate example. Whatever you think of him -- and I never had much against him in particular -- I think it's undeniable that his presence was a net negative here. If I were a moderator, I would have gone to him long ago and said, "Nothing personal, but you're making our job harder. Go find something else to do." (Hell, maybe that is what they did; no idea what got him his latest suspension.)

At the same time, I do think there's something inherent to arguing politics with strangers online that makes reasoned dialogue difficult, if not impossible. As BR says, we all get sucked into it, not because we're bad people, but because the model is constructed to push you to be angrier and more extreme. Not every time, but more often than not.

Anyway, all of this is difficult, and I don't begrudge the moderators for pulling the plug on the whole thing. I hope this ultimately makes their job easier.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

The PSF was great because it housed the most deplorable people imaginable and tended to keep them out of the FFA. I can't imagine the reason why you don't just ban the deplorables and leave things be as a honey pot. Could it be one of the owners was an OG Q Pizzagater? Nah.

that is the kind of comment that should get you permabanned. deplorable people? care to name names.

Joe specifically asked us not to do that

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks for the thoughtful posts. I think a lot of you are hitting on some of the exact issues.

Here's a good example. This was posted in this thread (then deleted by a moderator) today.

Apparently, some photos of a politician wearing blackface have surfaced.

Officially bummed that I can't argue about the implications of (politician) blackface photos with you people.

I dunno. I got something out of all of it, even if many didn't, and even if the juice wasn't always worth the squeeze.

There were nuggets of real discussion in the forum. Ukraine War, Supreme Court and others. But way too much of the forum was posts like the one quoted where the "Other side" did something stupid / awful / bad and then the formula was see how many points we can score while we amplify the stupid / awful / bad thing.

And when "our side" did something stupid / awful / bad, the formula was ignore or call out the other side for being so negative.

Rinse and repeat.

It wasn't political discussion where ideas are discussed. It was political point scoring to make our side look better than the other side.

And risking mocking for "bof sidez", this happened regularly in my experience from both sides.

In my opinion, I, and this project failed when I allowed the forum to become more interested in scoring points than discussing ideas.

And truthfully, it was not as much a failure as it was a realization I was unable to keep it more about ideas and not scoring points.

We made a good effort. And I do feel ok about that.

And what I want to take away from this venture is just that: I want to keep my focus on discussing ideas. I'm just as susceptible as anyone else in falling into the point scoring trap. This is a lesson for me as much as anyone.

 

[dkp993]

Good post @Joe Bryant, and I agree philosophically, unfortunately the age old adage of “religion and politics“ has stood the test of time for a reason. Both topics inspire too much passion to stay in the realm of ”discussing ideas”. In my 47yrs I’ve never found a place like you describe. Have I had individual conversations that were able to stave off the passion, sure. But the longer it goes on and the more it involves numerous topics the more likelihood it will get passionate.

I hate that the forum was shuttered, I truly do (especially as I sit in a jury duty room bored out of my mind), but I understand the decision. In fact I lived a similar decision this very week. My Father in Law came and stayed with us for the past week. He’s a hard core MAGA guy. He’s also a great guy I like a lot despite our fundamental disagreements. How have we chosen to maximize our enjoyment of our time together? We simply don’t discuss politics.

Sometime topics are simply to hot to touch.

 

[GordonGekko]

..... The cops can only arrest you if you've committed a specific crime, and AFAIK, the moderators only suspended people for specific posts. I think they should have viewed the problem more holistically, looked at the posters who were dragging the level of discourse down, and pre-emptively permabanned them. ....

What's stopping the current FBG Staff right now? What's stopping every current admin under the @FBG Moderator banner right now?

What's stopping them from giving out permanent lifetime bans today?

This is not a situation where this is a new forum and there's been a problem for 2-3 months. This is a problem that spans hundreds of thousands of posts in aggregate and DECADES of combined tenure years on these forums.

If you combine all the aliases, there's someone who is a regular poster who has probably close to a quarter of a million posts. If you add up other known bad faith actors, you are looking at adding in people with 40-50 thousand plus post counts each. For years. That's open anti-community toxicity spanning over a decade or more. Easily ranging into hundreds of thousands of posts. The same tired trash behavior. It's not like the worst trouble makers aren't known to everyone.

One way or another, a "permanent ban" is going to happen. It's either going to be the worst toxic elements that have abused chance after chance and the good will of this community. Or it's going to be, through half measures, the functional lifetime banning of "positive community values" within the entire FFA, where most of the people there have done absolutely nothing wrong to anyone else here.

Without real change, it's coming, whether people want it to or not.

This not just a discussion of the end of the PSF. It's also about the reality that the Free For All is next. Does anyone here believe that the worst possible long standing toxic malcontents from the PSF are going to leave the FFA unscathed? Or do people here believe it's going to the same old tired BS, where the same toxic people inch closer and closer, chipping away, playing their cheap pedantic games, biding their time, then end up getting the FFA killed off too.

This is not Shirley Jackson's The Lottery here. It's just long needed triage for the greater good of the entire community.

 

[dgreen]

Good post @Joe Bryant, and I agree philosophically, unfortunately the age old adage of “religion and politics“ has stood the test of time for a reason. Both topics inspire too much passion to stay in the realm of ”discussing ideas”. In my 47yrs I’ve never found a place like you describe. Have I had individual conversations that were able to stave off the passion, sure. But the longer it goes on and the more it involves numerous topics the more likelihood it will get passionate.

I hate that the forum was shuttered, I truly do (especially as I sit in a jury duty room bored out of my mind), but I understand the decision. In fact I lived a similar decision this very week. My Father in Law came and stayed with us for the past week. He’s a hard core MAGA guy. He’s also a great guy I like a lot despite our fundamental disagreements. How have we chosen to maximize our enjoyment of our time together? We simply don’t discuss politics.

Sometime topics are simply to hot to touch.

Hey, there's no ban on religion...yet. We used to have great religious discussions in the FFA.

 

[squistion]

..... The cops can only arrest you if you've committed a specific crime, and AFAIK, the moderators only suspended people for specific posts. I think they should have viewed the problem more holistically, looked at the posters who were dragging the level of discourse down, and pre-emptively permabanned them. ....

What's stopping the current FBG Staff right now? What's stopping every current admin under the @FBG Moderator banner right now?

What's stopping them from giving out permanent lifetime bans today?

This is not a situation where this is a new forum and there's been a problem for 2-3 months. This is a problem that spans hundreds of thousands of posts in aggregate and DECADES of combined tenure years on these forums.

If you combine all the aliases, there's someone who is a regular poster who has probably close to a quarter of a million posts. If you add up other known bad faith actors, you are looking at adding in people with 40-50 thousand plus post counts each. For years. That's open anti-community toxicity spanning over a decade or more. Easily ranging into hundreds of thousands of posts. The same tired trash behavior. It's not like the worst trouble makers aren't known to everyone.

One way or another, a "permanent ban" is going to happen. It's either going to be the worst toxic elements that have abused chance after chance and the good will of this community. Or it's going to be, through half measures, the functional lifetime banning of "positive community values" within the entire FFA, where most of the people there have done absolutely nothing wrong to anyone else here.

Without real change, it's coming, whether people want it to or not.

This not just a discussion of the end of the PSF. It's also about the reality that the Free For All is next. Does anyone here believe that the worst possible long standing toxic malcontents from the PSF are going to leave the FFA unscathed? Or do people here believe it's going to the same old tired BS, where the same toxic people inch closer and closer, chipping away, playing their cheap pedantic games, biding their time, then end up getting the FFA killed off too.

This is not Shirley Jackson's The Lottery here. It's just long needed triage for the greater good of the entire community.

What's stopping the current FBG Staff right now? What's stopping every current admin under the @FBG Moderator banner right now?

What's stopping them from giving out permanent lifetime bans today?

Gordon, be careful what you wish for.

 

[Osaurus]

Is this thread turning into the “last word” thread? Let it go, folks

 

[The General]

Good post @Joe Bryant, and I agree philosophically, unfortunately the age old adage of “religion and politics“ has stood the test of time for a reason. Both topics inspire too much passion to stay in the realm of ”discussing ideas”. In my 47yrs I’ve never found a place like you describe. Have I had individual conversations that were able to stave off the passion, sure. But the longer it goes on and the more it involves numerous topics the more likelihood it will get passionate.

I hate that the forum was shuttered, I truly do (especially as I sit in a jury duty room bored out of my mind), but I understand the decision. In fact I lived a similar decision this very week. My Father in Law came and stayed with us for the past week. He’s a hard core MAGA guy. He’s also a great guy I like a lot despite our fundamental disagreements. How have we chosen to maximize our enjoyment of our time together? We simply don’t discuss politics.

Sometime topics are simply too hot to touch.

Totally agree Politics is a hot stove topic.

I get needing to handle things this way with an in-law or a co-worker.

However, folks on the internet that you have seen post for years in a thread where you can type out thoughts, allow people to respond, curate the people who you interact with is the ideal spot to do this.

 

[Redwes25]

I think it was a smart decision to close the forum and appreciate Joe for doing it as I think the toxicity from the forum was spreading into the rest of the forums.

THe only thing I will miss is the Ukraine war thread. It was a great thread and had no real political discussion in it and I am sorry it is lost as it was the exception to the rule in the politics forum.

 

[Zegras11]

What's stopping them from giving out permanent lifetime bans today?

As someone that was in this industry for 30 years and refused to have MB's..... What you are asking for would NEVER end. They would find ways to create new accounts using different ISP's.

Despite the COUNTLESS warning posts, NOTHING ever changed. To expect that something else could change the issues has proven to be fruitless.

Just a DAY later, and this thread already has the sides vs sides posting away again accusing the other side of the exact same thing they do. And it's BOTH sides that are doing it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Hey, there's no ban on religion...yet. We used to have great religious discussions in the FFA.

Interestingly, there seems to be less animosity with religious discussions. And less condescension and snark. I'm not sure why. But I can see having those in the FFA.

 

[Rubiobot]

Just a DAY later, and this thread already has the sides vs sides posting away again accusing the other side of the exact same thing they do. And it's BOTH sides that are doing it.

I have only seen a couple of posts in here like that. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems pretty amicable in this thread, at least in my opinion.

 

[Zegras11]

Just a DAY later, and this thread already has the sides vs sides posting away again accusing the other side of the exact same thing they do. And it's BOTH sides that are doing it.

I have only seen a couple of posts in here like that. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems pretty amicable in this thread, at least in my opinion.

It's not that many, but it's the beginning of the same path that always just gets worse and worse as time goes on.

 

[Joe Bryant]

t's not that many, but it's the beginning of the same path that always just gets worse and worse as time goes on.

Yes. Plus some posts are deleted.

 

[jon_mx]

It is funny that people want to blame a few bad apples and if only it was moderated differently, the forum will work and there can be meaningful discussion.

There is a reason why political discourse is so contentious. We no longer share common values as a country. You can laugh and me and ignore me like every leftist poster in this forum does, but that is the reality. This forum made every attempt feasible to make it work and probably came as close as anywhere on the internet. Whether you believe in my characterization of the two sides or not, the differences between the two sides is too great.

 

[BeTheMatch]

I'm just trying to find a league ...

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I'm just trying to find a league ...

League of Women Voters?

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Is this thread turning into the “last word” thread? Let it go, folks

One of my favorite cocktails

 

[rustycolts]

Just created a discord for some politics, yoga pants, and other things that aren't appropriate here. I say some politics, because I don't want to foster another social media enragement apparatus. There will be little to no tolerance for ad hominem attacks, sweeping generalizations, and anecdotes used to vilify the other side. This could still serve as a nice place to discuss larger scale stuff like the Ukraine War, elections, inflation, etc.

Link

This probably should have been done long ago. Would have saved Joe and all the mods a bunch of grief.

 

[Da Guru]

A couple years ago I help MOD a "All Detroit" forum. It was great for awhile talking about everything in Metro-Detroit, then slowly but surely politics started creeping into every post. Trump blows, Biden has dementia, Detroit politics. We had a thread about Belle Isle an island park on the Detroit River between Detroit and Canada. "Used to be nice until Dems ruined it" "Thank Trump for cutting funding." Finally the man who ran it said "No politics" but it did not stop.

One day I went to log in and it was totally gone and is still gone. Talked to the guy who started it and he said it had turned too toxic and it was not recovering. So it happens and he had about 10K members.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Yup, it's gone.

 

[SWC]

good to see the same folks that got the psf shut down are here in a thread complaining and arguing about it being shut down exactly the same way they behaved in the psf which ended up with it being shut down at least they are consistent take that to the bank brohans

 

[culdeus]

Is there a way to get a post count in the PSF? Curious how that would break down. I have a billion posts, but a lot of them are NFL game threads in the shark pool so one might think I actually was a shark pool person, plus wearwolf in the FFA would be like 15k easy. There's nothing like that in the PSF. so the data would be pretty clean I think.

 

[glvsav37]

Thanks for the thoughtful posts. I think a lot of you are hitting on some of the exact issues.

Here's a good example. This was posted in this thread (then deleted by a moderator) today.

Apparently, some photos of a politician wearing blackface have surfaced.

Officially bummed that I can't argue about the implications of (politician) blackface photos with you people.

I dunno. I got something out of all of it, even if many didn't, and even if the juice wasn't always worth the squeeze.

There were nuggets of real discussion in the forum. Ukraine War, Supreme Court and others. But way too much of the forum was posts like the one quoted where the "Other side" did something stupid / awful / bad and then the formula was see how many points we can score while we amplify the stupid / awful / bad thing.

And when "our side" did something stupid / awful / bad, the formula was ignore or call out the other side for being so negative.

Rinse and repeat.

It wasn't political discussion where ideas are discussed. It was political point scoring to make our side look better than the other side.

And risking mocking for "bof sidez", this happened regularly in my experience from both sides.

In my opinion, I, and this project failed when I allowed the forum to become more interested in scoring points than discussing ideas.

And truthfully, it was not as much a failure as it was a realization I was unable to keep it more about ideas and not scoring points.

We made a good effort. And I do feel ok about that.

And what I want to take away from this venture is just that: I want to keep my focus on discussing ideas. I'm just as susceptible as anyone else in falling into the point scoring trap. This is a lesson for me as much as anyone.

Unfortunately, this is what politics is all about these days. No one is governing or making policy to benefit Americans....they are hiding in their marble and mahogany inlaid offices and only coming out to shoot shots across their 'opponents' bow through MSM and SM. Scoring political points is ALL that matters in Washington.

Im not dismissing it, but most of the population is just parroting what leadership and MSM is telling them. Its a systematic failure from the top down. Like children, we are learning from our parents (leadership) and IMO there is no indication that the political heads are going to change their tune anytime soon, either side.

JUst look at the SM postings from friends and family....7 word memes that are nothing but "gotchas." People who you knew in HS were basically illiterate now seem to have poly-sci degrees and are world policy scholars....b/c that what "NewsX" was telling me. Whataboutism can be declared its own form of literature these days.

Overall though, my fear is that situations that happened today with Nancy's husband are going to become more commonplace. While many Americans are somewhat level headed, both sides have their lunatic fringe who is easily pushed to take things a step too far. Great wars and global conflicts have been started on assassinations and other lesser issues. Today it was a break in attack, but what if there is a assassination or other life altering incident tomorrow. You dontvAnd while I have no love for the Pelosi's, I also dont wish harm on anyone. But politicians as a whole need to recognize their place and influence in the growing tensions in this country.

We cant keep living this way as a population.

 

[GordonGekko]

What's stopping them from giving out permanent lifetime bans today?

As someone that was in this industry for 30 years and refused to have MB's..... What you are asking for would NEVER end. They would find ways to create new accounts using different ISP's.

Despite the COUNTLESS warning posts, NOTHING ever changed. To expect that something else could change the issues has proven to be fruitless.

Just a DAY later, and this thread already has the sides vs sides posting away again accusing the other side of the exact same thing they do. And it's BOTH sides that are doing it.

Sure it can potentially end.

Many of the regular posters in the FFA now were here in 2015 when the place was dragged into the ground. Do you think the majority will want to see it returned back that way? If it's made clear to them that the FFA is next on the chopping block, all those people will start hitting the Report Button as soon as politics go up.

If the FBG Staff here get 20-50 daily reports over and over about the same person, then it's possible that person gets a permanent lifetime ban.

Or if it's an alias, then a year long ban.

I bet you a Staff member can ban an account faster than some bad faith actor can build new accounts or spin up their old aliases.

Or the FFA can die. Because that's exactly what's going to happen otherwise. Right now, there is someone who is apparently and allegedly suspended, who asked someone here to post for them by proxy, probably using one of their aliases to send the message, to let everyone know he's going to heavily participate in the FFA when he comes back. How do you think that's going to turn out? The guy literally does whatever harm to get banned, then openly lets everyone know he's circumventing the ban likely with an alias, to distribute the message to broadcast that, in effect, he's going return in full force - i.e. to use the FFA like a toilet just like he did the PSF.

Even I remember the old days when Shick told everyone not to post other people's private PM messages on the open forums. We are talking about someone who doesn't even have the respect for Joe to eat their suspension cleanly. They have to keep the infestation going with their aliases and using proxies to push out their messages.

You are telling me why change isn't possible. Well people who want the FFA to survive better adapt then to make change possible.

For those of you whom want the FFA to survive and not turn into a toilet, you want to know how to save it? Every time you see crap happen from the same small group of toxic elements, then hit the Report Button and tell Joe whom you want permanently banned. Even Joe said himself that he wants people to do a better job of reporting the toxic things they see. If you have enough people reporting, eventually it's going to be clear that the masses want some specific bad faith actors gone for good.

If you are right in your assessment, then the FFA dies. It's not a matter of "IF" but a matter of "WHEN" in the case that the worst toxic people are allowed to stay. Anyone who has been here long enough knows exactly what those people are going to do. Circle the edges, test boundaries, then empty their bowels into the community pool once again. In every single damn thread. Just like in the PSF. Just like they did in 2015 and beyond. Where the most toxic elements are in every single last damn thread just to spit in other people's faces for sport. On an aside, there are legitimately good people that have apparently built long friendships and associations and helped each other through the Free For All. Those are ones who really are losing out.

It's either pick those good community oriented people or pick the toxic people. Picking both isn't going to work because it's proven over time not to work.

Locking the door to one room in this house isn't going to fix this problem. On this current trajectory, the Free For All is going to get wiped out too. Not today, but it's going to happen at some point. Either it will get deleted or locked or all the good people will get tired of being neck deep in other people's emptying bowels and leave.

Someone, anyone, go on, tell me I'm wrong here.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Hey, there's no ban on religion...yet. We used to have great religious discussions in the FFA.

Interestingly, there seems to be less animosity with religious discussions. And less condescension and snark. I'm not sure why. But I can see having those in the FFA.

As we get closer to Reformation Day, sometime in the past few weeks I was reminded of Luther's explanation of the eighth commandment (googled link). I never did Lutheran Catechism on the Ten Commandments so maybe I never knew directly, but at least at some level I should have figured this out,

We are to fear and love God, so that we do not tell lies about our neighbors, betray or slander them, or destroy their reputations. Instead we are to come to their defense, speak well of them, and interpret everything they do in the best possible light.

When I heard it the first time a few weeks ago, I thought of the pinned thread about the problem in the PSF. I went back and forth on the lack of empathy theory, but maybe that was because my definition was off?

Not going to pretend that I lived up to my ideals or start pointing fingers as to who needed to hear this because ultimately it was me who needed to hear it. Oh well, point me to a religious thread.

 

[djmich]

A message from Tim...

“Hey I’ve been suspended or Id do this myself. Just wanted you guys to know I really enjoyed talking issues with almost all of you-even the arguments. I’ve encountered some really cool people here on all sides and learned a lot. And I apologize if I’ve contributed in any way to the forum being shut down. Best wishes to everyone and I hope to encounter you all at some point in the FFA where I plan to continue future song lists and chess tournaments.”

If?

Too funny Tim’s final psf send-off from the sidelines. Classic

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Thanks

Your work is appreciated

 

[ren hoek]

Kind of sad to see it go, but it was honestly dying anyway. The traffic we used to get from so many thoughtful people just sort of faded away. But that's the way things go with old boards in the wake of social media. I'll definitely miss it and I do appreciate Joe keeping our old threads alive for reference.

There is a bright side to this. I think it'll be interesting to have politics-related threads with a lot more eyeballs on them, even if we can't make overtly political posts anymore. Instead of the same people that were focused on winning a religious crusade day in and day out. XDDD

To the PSF haters, a lot of people did a pretty admirable job of keeping it cool, I think they deserved a place to keep doing that. I don't know if there was a better way to moderate the board, I would never say that. But to me the real downfall was when we started appeasing people that reported stuff for the most ludicrous, supersensitive reasons. I definitely think that was abused in a cynical way.

I am skeptical that we could keep politics off the board entirely. I mean are we really expected not to discuss the 2024 presidential election at all? If they thought it was hard to manage the PSF, seems like it'd be lightyears harder and more time-consuming to police that. I'm interested to see how that goes. In any case I'm here to stay and I wish everyone well- it's wild that some of us have known each other for 15-20 years now.