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HC Bill Belichick, (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter wiscstlatlmia
- Start date
parrot
Footballguy
Yeah, that's good stuff when media types try to tell the braintrust of winningest team of last decade plus how they should be running their team.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I am not saying I agree with everything they said, but I do think that Belichick overthinks it sometimes by getting rid of very good players and just throwing younger players into his system thinking that will be enough. I mean, he has now gone eight years in a row without winning a Super Bowl, and that is with having an all-time great QB for seven of them. Basically, since 2005, he is Andy Reid: always having his team in contention, but never getting it done. Except that Reid's Eagles were at least always fighting it out in a tough NFC East, instead of playing in a soft division that guarantees a high seed every year, and Reid had McNabb, not Brady. If Brady ever went down again, considering these current Patriots are not built like the 2007-2008 Patriots, he'd have a rough time of it.Yeah, that's good stuff when media types try to tell the braintrust of winningest team of last decade plus how they should be running their team.
parrot
Footballguy
That article is just a hatchet job. It's funny to me that people are so quick to rake Belichick over the coals for Welker, but the Ravens let Ed flippin' Reed walk without even any kind of genuine attempt to resign him, and nobody bats a freakin' eye.I am not saying I agree with everything they said, but I do think that Belichick overthinks it sometimes by getting rid of very good players and just throwing younger players into his system thinking that will be enough. I mean, he has now gone eight years in a row without winning a Super Bowl, and that is with having an all-time great QB for seven of them. Basically, since 2005, he is Andy Reid: always having his team in contention, but never getting it done. Except that Reid's Eagles were at least always fighting it out in a tough NFC East, instead of playing in a soft division that guarantees a high seed every year, and Reid had McNabb, not Brady. If Brady ever went down again, considering these current Patriots are not built like the 2007-2008 Patriots, he'd have a rough time of it.Yeah, that's good stuff when media types try to tell the braintrust of winningest team of last decade plus how they should be running their team.
12punch
Footballguy
Looooooooooooooooool
12punch
Footballguy
Well, when you put it like that he does coMe off like kind of an idiotI am not saying I agree with everything they said, but I do think that Belichick overthinks it sometimes by getting rid of very good players and just throwing younger players into his system thinking that will be enough. I mean, he has now gone eight years in a row without winning a Super Bowl, that is with having an all-time great QB for seven of them. Basically, since 2005, he is Andy Reid: always having his team in contention, but never getting it done. Except that Reid's Eagles were at least always fighting it out in a tough NFC East, instead of playing in a soft division that guarantees a high seed every year, and Reid had McNabb, not Brady. If Brady ever went down again, considering these current Patriots are not built like the 2007-2008 Patriots, he'd have a rough time of it.Yeah, that's good stuff when media types try to tell the braintrust of winningest team of last decade plus how they should be running their team.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Counting only the sesaons from their last SB and all the "questionable" personnel moves NE has apparently made, the Pats have won more regular season games than anyone other team and have as many SB appearances as anyone else.AND they were a dropped Reche Caldwell pass from advancing to the SB in 2006. And a miracle catch away from beating the Giants in 2007. And a dropped Wes Welker catch from beating the Giants in 2011. And a dropped Welker catch from opening up a decent sized lead in the first half of the 2012 AFCC game (which they could easily have lost anyway).I am not saying I agree with everything they said, but I do think that Belichick overthinks it sometimes by getting rid of very good players and just throwing younger players into his system thinking that will be enough. I mean, he has now gone eight years in a row without winning a Super Bowl, and that is with having an all-time great QB for seven of them. Basically, since 2005, he is Andy Reid: always having his team in contention, but never getting it done. Except that Reid's Eagles were at least always fighting it out in a tough NFC East, instead of playing in a soft division that guarantees a high seed every year, and Reid had McNabb, not Brady. If Brady ever went down again, considering these current Patriots are not built like the 2007-2008 Patriots, he'd have a rough time of it.Yeah, that's good stuff when media types try to tell the braintrust of winningest team of last decade plus how they should be running their team.
The point being, they have been right there EVERY year. And not far away most years. The huge majority of teams would trade places with NE over that timeframe. People just don't understand how hard it is to win a SB. How many teams in the league can't even sniff one, let alone win one? It's not like there aren't other weak divisions. Until recently, the AFC West and NFC West have been very weak. The AFC South in the Manning era was a caewalk several seasons as well.
We've seen this movie before in NE. How quickly people forget.
The one thing that Bill has done over the years is get rid of players at the right time. And it's pretty uncanny how you hardly ever hear a peep from them again. Let us count the ways:
* Randy Moss -- Traded back to MN early in the 2010 season after he griped. Perfect timing.
* Mike Vrabel -- Huge fan favorite. Traded to KC with Cassel for a 2nd round pick. Haven't heard much from Vrabel. Cassel a bonafied bum.
* Adam Vinitieri -- A legend. Possibly the clutchest kicker ever. Eh. They lived and didn't have to pay him.
* Asante Samuel -- Left to sign a huge contract in Philly. He's been solid, but I'd say that his performance since hasn't been worth that kind of dough.
* Richard Seymour -- Traded for a first round pick. How often have you heard Seymour's name in Oakland?
* Willie McGinest -- Pats let him go to Cleveland. Poof.
* Deion Branch -- Traded at his peak to Seattle. Got him back for peanuts later. He's been servicable since that point.
* Drew Bledsoe -- Traded WITHIN THE DIVISION for god's sake. Poof.
* Ty Law -- They let him go. He actually had a pretty good year for the Jets after, but soon after that, it was downhill.
* Lawyer Milloy -- They let him go. Went to Buffalo. Don't remember caring much.
The Welker departure stings now, but I'm giving Bill the benefit of the doubt.
KY
The one thing that Bill has done over the years is get rid of players at the right time. And it's pretty uncanny how you hardly ever hear a peep from them again. Let us count the ways:
* Randy Moss -- Traded back to MN early in the 2010 season after he griped. Perfect timing.
* Mike Vrabel -- Huge fan favorite. Traded to KC with Cassel for a 2nd round pick. Haven't heard much from Vrabel. Cassel a bonafied bum.
* Adam Vinitieri -- A legend. Possibly the clutchest kicker ever. Eh. They lived and didn't have to pay him.
* Asante Samuel -- Left to sign a huge contract in Philly. He's been solid, but I'd say that his performance since hasn't been worth that kind of dough.
* Richard Seymour -- Traded for a first round pick. How often have you heard Seymour's name in Oakland?
* Willie McGinest -- Pats let him go to Cleveland. Poof.
* Deion Branch -- Traded at his peak to Seattle. Got him back for peanuts later. He's been servicable since that point.
* Drew Bledsoe -- Traded WITHIN THE DIVISION for god's sake. Poof.
* Ty Law -- They let him go. He actually had a pretty good year for the Jets after, but soon after that, it was downhill.
* Lawyer Milloy -- They let him go. Went to Buffalo. Don't remember caring much.
The Welker departure stings now, but I'm giving Bill the benefit of the doubt.
KY
GregR
Footballguy
Week 1 2011 was Monday Night, not 1pm.Week 4 2010 was Monday Night in October, not 1pm in September.Yeah it was way back before we were football fans..... way way back in week one....... of 2011....... Week 4 of 2010.... Week 3 of 2008.... Week 5 of 2006...
Ahem.....Please provide proof where it didn't work out so hot for me...
Week 3 2008 was a Patriot home game.
Week 5 2006 was a Patriot home game in October.
gcoast3 is correct. The last time the Patriots had a 1pm kickoff in Miami in September was Sept 24, 2000. Even expanding beyond what he said to include early October, they had 1 pm kickoffs in Miami on Oct 6 and 7 in 2001 and 2002 which is still a decade. Here are all games the two teams have played against each other.
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Proving Belichick is far from perfect. He also benefits from a weak AFC East. Sorry homers...Belichick needs to prove he can win without Brady.
12. Leigh Bodden (2009): As we stated previously, Bodden has earned a spot on both lists. He played very well in his first year with the Patriots, but after signing a four-year, $22 million deal, he was quickly injured -- he sat out the entire 2010 season -- and played just five games and quickly fell out of favor in New England. Played for the Patriots from 2009-2011.
11. Cam Cleeland (2002): Cleeland was picked up as part of en extreme makeover the Patriots had at the tight end spot that season, an offseason that saw New England also acquire Christian Fauria as a free agent and Daniel Graham in the draft. But Cleeland was easily the worst of the three -- in his one season with the Patriots, he had 16 catches for 112 yards and a touchdown. Played for the Patriots in 2002.
10. Joseph Addai (2012): The former Indianapolis Colts running back never played a down in New England, but makes the list because he gave up on the conditioning test in the summer of 2012. In retrospect, cutting him loose was one of the best things the Patriots did -- it allowed the young group of backs (particularly Stevan Ridley) to flourish in extensive work over the course of the 2012 season. Meanwhile, Addai didn’t play a lick of football this past season.
9. Chad Brown (2005): Otherwise known as the other linebacker acquired that season who flamed out with the Patriots, he signed a two-year, $4 million deal. He wasn’t as much of a mess as Monty Beisel (more on him later), but was clearly overwhelmed at times, and struggled to keep up with the system. He played in 15 games with the Patriots in 2005 and recorded 31 tackles, but was clearly not the same guy that racked up three Pro Bowl appearances earlier in his career. He returned in 2007 for a two-game stint with New England, but will ultimately be remembered as a guy who hung around about four years longer than he should have. Played for the Patriots in 2005 and 2007.
8. Deltha O’Neal (2008): When you have to go to the bargain bin to select cornerbacks, sometimes you get a bargain. And other times, you get O’Neal. The former Bronco and Bengal defensive back and kick returner played 16 games for the Patriots in 2008 (remarkably, he started 10 of them) and even though he came away with three picks, he struggled to show the form he flashed earlier in his career that made him a first-team All-Pro. Played with the Patriots in 2008.
7. Donald Hayes (2002): This wide receiver arrived with some fanfare in 2002, as his height (6-foot-4) was expected to add a different dynamic to the undersized New England receiving corps. (He had 118 catches in the two seasons before he arrived in Foxboro.) He was signed to a two-year, $2.4 million deal, but he never got off the ground with the Patriots, and it was later discovered he had a learning disability that caused him to have issues with the New England playbook. In the end, he played 12 games with the Patriots in one season, and ended up with 12 catches for 133 yards and two touchdowns. Played with the Patriots in 2002.
6. Jonathan Fanene (2012): Like Addai, Fanene arrived as a veteran presence who some believed could bring a measure of stability to an unstable position. But it turned out that his knees were never quite right, and he had issues staying on the field through training camp. He was released on Aug. 21, and didn’t play at all this past season.
5. Joey Galloway (2009): Only reason he’s not higher is because of his relatively decent contract (one year, $1.15 million), but Galloway was another veteran out of whom the Patriots were hoping to squeeze a year or two at the end of his career. Galloway was a bad match from the jump, finishing with seven catches for 67 yards and watching the final three games of his career as a healthy scratch. The most memorable moment of his time in Foxboro came when Tom Brady could be seen barking at him after a botched play -- lip-readers could clearly see the quarterback saying, “It’s not that (bleeping) hard, Joey.” He was released on October 20, 2009.
4. Shawn Springs (2009): On paper, this looked like a great move -- Springs was a veteran corner who had been around for a few seasons, and when he arrived in New England, he made his mark early on as a smart and funny addition to the team. (He signed a three-year deal that included a $2.7 million signing bonus.) But he was inconsistent, and dogged by health problems. That season, he played in 12 games with 39 tackles and one interception. Compounding the problem was the fact that he quickly fell in with Adalius Thomas, who was completely soured on the New England experience by that time. The combination of the two pretty much insured the fact that he was a goner after one season.
3. Steve Martin (2002): The Patriots had trouble stopping the run, and so they went out and signed this defensive lineman ... only to find out he couldn’t do much of anything, other than provide terrific sound bytes for the media. (In Michael Holley’s book “Patriot Reign,” there’s a memorably profane sequence where Bill Belichick describes Martin.) He also apparently had a habit of falling asleep in several spots around Gillette Stadium, including the weight room. He didn’t last a full season with the Patriots before he was cut loose. Played for the Patriots in 2002.
2. Monty Beisel (2005): Just a mess on almost every level, other than the fact he was signed for relatively short money (two years, $1.7 million). He played poorly, wasn’t prepared for the New England system and got along poorly with the media. (Part of it probably wasn’t his fault -- he was expected to take over some of the responsibilities of Tedy Bruschi, who sat out the first part of the season because of a stroke. And he wasn’t ready for all that entailed.) In the end, he played in 15 games (starting six) and finished with 31 tackles. After leaving New England at the end of the 2005 season, he latched on with the Cardinals, and was part of the Arizona team that won an NFC championship. Played with the Patriots in 2005.
1. Adalius Thomas (2007): This started great for both sides. Thomas signed a five-year, $35 million deal with the Patriots that spring, and he had an absolutely terrific first season with the Patriots -- if David Tyree doesn’t hold on to the ball at the end of Super Bowl XLII, you can make an argument for him as the MVP of that game. But things went south quickly, eventually devolving in 2009 when he was a healthy scratch for the first time as a pro. That led to the infamous LateGate incident, which he later blamed on bad weather and spurred him to make his now infamous Jetson’s remark. He was gone soon after that. Played for the Patriots from 2007-2009.
12. Leigh Bodden (2009): As we stated previously, Bodden has earned a spot on both lists. He played very well in his first year with the Patriots, but after signing a four-year, $22 million deal, he was quickly injured -- he sat out the entire 2010 season -- and played just five games and quickly fell out of favor in New England. Played for the Patriots from 2009-2011.
11. Cam Cleeland (2002): Cleeland was picked up as part of en extreme makeover the Patriots had at the tight end spot that season, an offseason that saw New England also acquire Christian Fauria as a free agent and Daniel Graham in the draft. But Cleeland was easily the worst of the three -- in his one season with the Patriots, he had 16 catches for 112 yards and a touchdown. Played for the Patriots in 2002.
10. Joseph Addai (2012): The former Indianapolis Colts running back never played a down in New England, but makes the list because he gave up on the conditioning test in the summer of 2012. In retrospect, cutting him loose was one of the best things the Patriots did -- it allowed the young group of backs (particularly Stevan Ridley) to flourish in extensive work over the course of the 2012 season. Meanwhile, Addai didn’t play a lick of football this past season.
9. Chad Brown (2005): Otherwise known as the other linebacker acquired that season who flamed out with the Patriots, he signed a two-year, $4 million deal. He wasn’t as much of a mess as Monty Beisel (more on him later), but was clearly overwhelmed at times, and struggled to keep up with the system. He played in 15 games with the Patriots in 2005 and recorded 31 tackles, but was clearly not the same guy that racked up three Pro Bowl appearances earlier in his career. He returned in 2007 for a two-game stint with New England, but will ultimately be remembered as a guy who hung around about four years longer than he should have. Played for the Patriots in 2005 and 2007.
8. Deltha O’Neal (2008): When you have to go to the bargain bin to select cornerbacks, sometimes you get a bargain. And other times, you get O’Neal. The former Bronco and Bengal defensive back and kick returner played 16 games for the Patriots in 2008 (remarkably, he started 10 of them) and even though he came away with three picks, he struggled to show the form he flashed earlier in his career that made him a first-team All-Pro. Played with the Patriots in 2008.
7. Donald Hayes (2002): This wide receiver arrived with some fanfare in 2002, as his height (6-foot-4) was expected to add a different dynamic to the undersized New England receiving corps. (He had 118 catches in the two seasons before he arrived in Foxboro.) He was signed to a two-year, $2.4 million deal, but he never got off the ground with the Patriots, and it was later discovered he had a learning disability that caused him to have issues with the New England playbook. In the end, he played 12 games with the Patriots in one season, and ended up with 12 catches for 133 yards and two touchdowns. Played with the Patriots in 2002.
6. Jonathan Fanene (2012): Like Addai, Fanene arrived as a veteran presence who some believed could bring a measure of stability to an unstable position. But it turned out that his knees were never quite right, and he had issues staying on the field through training camp. He was released on Aug. 21, and didn’t play at all this past season.
5. Joey Galloway (2009): Only reason he’s not higher is because of his relatively decent contract (one year, $1.15 million), but Galloway was another veteran out of whom the Patriots were hoping to squeeze a year or two at the end of his career. Galloway was a bad match from the jump, finishing with seven catches for 67 yards and watching the final three games of his career as a healthy scratch. The most memorable moment of his time in Foxboro came when Tom Brady could be seen barking at him after a botched play -- lip-readers could clearly see the quarterback saying, “It’s not that (bleeping) hard, Joey.” He was released on October 20, 2009.
4. Shawn Springs (2009): On paper, this looked like a great move -- Springs was a veteran corner who had been around for a few seasons, and when he arrived in New England, he made his mark early on as a smart and funny addition to the team. (He signed a three-year deal that included a $2.7 million signing bonus.) But he was inconsistent, and dogged by health problems. That season, he played in 12 games with 39 tackles and one interception. Compounding the problem was the fact that he quickly fell in with Adalius Thomas, who was completely soured on the New England experience by that time. The combination of the two pretty much insured the fact that he was a goner after one season.
3. Steve Martin (2002): The Patriots had trouble stopping the run, and so they went out and signed this defensive lineman ... only to find out he couldn’t do much of anything, other than provide terrific sound bytes for the media. (In Michael Holley’s book “Patriot Reign,” there’s a memorably profane sequence where Bill Belichick describes Martin.) He also apparently had a habit of falling asleep in several spots around Gillette Stadium, including the weight room. He didn’t last a full season with the Patriots before he was cut loose. Played for the Patriots in 2002.
2. Monty Beisel (2005): Just a mess on almost every level, other than the fact he was signed for relatively short money (two years, $1.7 million). He played poorly, wasn’t prepared for the New England system and got along poorly with the media. (Part of it probably wasn’t his fault -- he was expected to take over some of the responsibilities of Tedy Bruschi, who sat out the first part of the season because of a stroke. And he wasn’t ready for all that entailed.) In the end, he played in 15 games (starting six) and finished with 31 tackles. After leaving New England at the end of the 2005 season, he latched on with the Cardinals, and was part of the Arizona team that won an NFC championship. Played with the Patriots in 2005.
1. Adalius Thomas (2007): This started great for both sides. Thomas signed a five-year, $35 million deal with the Patriots that spring, and he had an absolutely terrific first season with the Patriots -- if David Tyree doesn’t hold on to the ball at the end of Super Bowl XLII, you can make an argument for him as the MVP of that game. But things went south quickly, eventually devolving in 2009 when he was a healthy scratch for the first time as a pro. That led to the infamous LateGate incident, which he later blamed on bad weather and spurred him to make his now infamous Jetson’s remark. He was gone soon after that. Played for the Patriots from 2007-2009.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Is there a point to this? No team is perfect. No team drafts with misses. No team signs free agents without misses. Look at the things that matter. Wins and losses, playoff appearances, divisional championships, SB wins, etc. And the he didn't win without Brady argument is silly. How many rings did the 70s/80s get without Bradshaw? Howmany titles did the 90s Cowboys win without Aikman? How many Super Bowls did Bill Walsh win without Joe Montana?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
what is this a list of?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Since the BB + TB marriage, here were the # of 10 win teams total by division since (2001 - present). Note that the first season there were only 3 divisions, but the 4 10 win teams that year from the Central division were counted in the division they were moved to the following year.
AFC North 19
NFC North 18
AFC East 17
NFC East 17
AFC South 17
NFC South 14
AFC West 13
NFC West 11
The AFC East was likely not the strongest division in the league, but most years they were middle of the road and usually pretty far from being the worst.
AFC North 19
NFC North 18
AFC East 17
NFC East 17
AFC South 17
NFC South 14
AFC West 13
NFC West 11
The AFC East was likely not the strongest division in the league, but most years they were middle of the road and usually pretty far from being the worst.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
is that counting the patriots?
Thunderlips
Footballguy
While some of the them worked out.....you don't think that some of them might have helped this team win a Super Bowl in the past 10 years? The fact of the matter is is how many of these "great" moves were responsible for the team winning a Super Bowl?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
yeah, we should have kept all those guys -- made them the highest paid players at their positions, then trade for adrian peterson.I love the 80s!!!chaaaaampionshiiiiip......!!
Thunderlips
Footballguy
What does that have to do with anything?.... Most of those D players played at least two more full seasons. There's no shame in analyzing and admitting that your team might have f!@#$d up and moved a player it shouldn't.ETA: You Pats fans sure are insecure.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
The commissioner also burned the tapes without letting anyone else see them. I always found that curious.
SSOG
Moderator
Milloy, Samuel, and Seymour were all very good players for years after leaving the Pats. This isn't to say that the Pats were hurt by letting them go (they did fine without Milloy, got a great return for Seymour, and Samuel was asking for huge money), it's just to disagree with the idea that release from the Pats means a player is done. Milloy lasted 8 more years in the league. Samuel made the pro bowl for three straight seasons after joining Philly. The reason you don't hear about Seymour has nothing to do with Seymour and everything to do with the dumpster fire of a team surrounding him.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
curious, indeed
DropKick
Footballguy
I'm struggling for relevance here... if you want to critique Belichick, you could talk about letting Welker go. I think he'll come to regret this one. But to bring up guys like Addai or a cheap flyer like Galloway is really a stretch. Can't believe you took the time to put that together.
DropKick
Footballguy
They could have used Samuel, Seymour and even Branch. Money may have been too big of an obstacle and it often comes down to a hard decision. But, in Welker's case, it really didn't come down to the expense, which I find shocking.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
is there any shame in admitting that you might've f!@#$d up?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Maybe some of them may have helped them win a super bowl.But the more likely result was limiting their ability to compete for a championship for YEARS which they have.
Bill Belichick's New England Patriots win a Super Bowl in 2001 despite fielding a roster viewed league-wide as old and one of the most undertalented in the entire NFL. Tom Brady, a game manager in 2001, emerges in 2003 and 2004 when mildly improved Pats rosters win Super Bowls despite their having the league's most games lost due to injuries by starters in both seasons.
In 2005, a new league rule is implemented which Bill Belichick breaks in 2007 by having his video assistant record opponents' signals from the wrong place in the stadium. He is briskly vilified as a cheater, and the critics demand asterisks for the adorementioned three Patriots' SB wins.
That very season, when it could be safely presumed no more 'illegal videotaping' was happening, the Patriots make such an utter mockery of their opponents that the same critics who dubbed BB a fraud now accuse him of running up scores. At this point (or since), no coach in NFL history had ever achieved such total dominance, for half a season, as to make the modern day hyper-competitive NFL look like a bad high school league (and bizarrely, have the point be underlined by his harshest critics t'boot).
The Pats cool down but still run the table, make short work of their early playoff opponents, reach the Super Bowl as the only 18-0 team in league history with the greatest offense in league history, lose a tightly contested matchup... and '18-1' becomes a favourite catcall for Patriots/Belichick haters ("hey, your team narrowly missed becoming the unquestioned GOAT, cementing the GOAT dynasty, with the GOAT coach and QB... ha ha ha, loser!"), who also revert back to the 'cheater' label, still confused as to whether Belichick is a tyrant or a sham.
In 2013, after a few years of less-pronounced success (including another narrow SB loss, another AFCCG appearance, 4 division championships, and the league's second ever 11-win non-playoff season), the critics now add another charge to the mix: incompetence.
In a league where player turnover is so high the average career lasts a mere three years, BB is incompetent because a dozen player acquisitions have been disappointing. By drafting premier TEs in rounds 2 and 4, and a stud RB in round 4, to round out the league's most potent offense with downright revolutionary elements (playcalling, hurry-up, two TE aerial attacks), BB is incompetent because he's failed to replicate this genius with his pass defense.
Despite his incompetence, he's still a bully too, as witnessed by recent Patriot demolitions of good-to-great teams: the 2009 Titans, 2010 Jets, 2011 Broncos, and the 2012 AFC juggernaut Texans... twice. And of course, thanks to a laughable lack of perspective regarding a 2007 mistake, he'll always be a sham too.
Whatever.
In 2005, a new league rule is implemented which Bill Belichick breaks in 2007 by having his video assistant record opponents' signals from the wrong place in the stadium. He is briskly vilified as a cheater, and the critics demand asterisks for the adorementioned three Patriots' SB wins.
That very season, when it could be safely presumed no more 'illegal videotaping' was happening, the Patriots make such an utter mockery of their opponents that the same critics who dubbed BB a fraud now accuse him of running up scores. At this point (or since), no coach in NFL history had ever achieved such total dominance, for half a season, as to make the modern day hyper-competitive NFL look like a bad high school league (and bizarrely, have the point be underlined by his harshest critics t'boot).
The Pats cool down but still run the table, make short work of their early playoff opponents, reach the Super Bowl as the only 18-0 team in league history with the greatest offense in league history, lose a tightly contested matchup... and '18-1' becomes a favourite catcall for Patriots/Belichick haters ("hey, your team narrowly missed becoming the unquestioned GOAT, cementing the GOAT dynasty, with the GOAT coach and QB... ha ha ha, loser!"), who also revert back to the 'cheater' label, still confused as to whether Belichick is a tyrant or a sham.
In 2013, after a few years of less-pronounced success (including another narrow SB loss, another AFCCG appearance, 4 division championships, and the league's second ever 11-win non-playoff season), the critics now add another charge to the mix: incompetence.
In a league where player turnover is so high the average career lasts a mere three years, BB is incompetent because a dozen player acquisitions have been disappointing. By drafting premier TEs in rounds 2 and 4, and a stud RB in round 4, to round out the league's most potent offense with downright revolutionary elements (playcalling, hurry-up, two TE aerial attacks), BB is incompetent because he's failed to replicate this genius with his pass defense.
Despite his incompetence, he's still a bully too, as witnessed by recent Patriot demolitions of good-to-great teams: the 2009 Titans, 2010 Jets, 2011 Broncos, and the 2012 AFC juggernaut Texans... twice. And of course, thanks to a laughable lack of perspective regarding a 2007 mistake, he'll always be a sham too.
Whatever.
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wodahSShadow
Footballguy
Certainly a one-sided view- but something I absolutely agree with...I love to hear about BB having Tom Brady. Which All-Time great coach has NOT had a great/all-time great QB?...By that thinking, every coach with a great QB should win multiple Super Bowls. Guess Sean Payton, Tony Dungy, Mike Holmgren, Don Shula (Marino era) are bums...
Shanahanigans
Footballguy
Joe Gibbs
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Yup. And Bill Parcells.
wodahSShadow
Footballguy
I guess it comes down to your definition of "all-time great coach", and what is the cut-off (top 5, top 10, top 20?). For me, at this point, I wouldn't say there are more than 10 (which might be stretching it) "All-time" great coaches in NFL. Off the top of my head, my list of all-time greats:
Paul Brown
George Halas
Vince Lombardi
Don Shula
Bill Belichick
I'm sure I am leaving out a few, but to me, it is and should be an exclusive list.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
For better or for worse, when the league switched to an era of free agency and a salary cap, remaining competitive and keeping a team together became far more difficult.
I think many people will mostly agree who the great coaches were pre-1994. Who else could give BB a run for his money from the past 20 years?
I think many people will mostly agree who the great coaches were pre-1994. Who else could give BB a run for his money from the past 20 years?
Too bad your brain trust can't win the big games any more without cheating. That is pretty evident now.Yeah, that's good stuff when media types try to tell the braintrust of winningest team of last decade plus how they should be running their team.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
? How does BB make the list and Gibbs doesn't especially considering BB's post-videotape ordeal track record? Gibbs won Super Bowls w/ basically a few no-name QBs
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I like it, but I think there's room for Gibbs, Landry, and Walsh.
Shanahanigans
Footballguy
Gibbs' achievements are more impressive than Belichick's imho.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
BB is going to bow out right then.Luckiest HC ever. 6th round pick turns into pure gold.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Not only might he quit when Brady does, he might even admit that it's why he's quitting. He's never seemed to give a crap about what anybody else thought of him. Maybe he'll say at his last press conference, "You know, there's really only a #### hair's difference between NFL coaches and I was fortunate enough to team up with a Hall of Famer for a long time. He could just as easily have made somebody else look real smart instead of me and I could just as easily be somewhere like Kent State right now."I would like him immensely if he did this and I don't like him at all right now. He doesn't seem to have much ego and he usually beats my local team. I'd be much happier knowing that he was gone as soon as Brady retired.
I heard a good comparison today...New England Patriots. =. Atlanta Braves
12punch
Footballguy
That was a pretty good summary, but you forgot the handshakes
12punch
Footballguy
There's no doubt the guy's had a charmed life.
Brady in the 6th doesn't happen often, then when you add cassel on top of that...........those stars won't line up again for 100 years.
And i almost forgot the giants -- taylor fell right in his lap like he was a 15 yo hooker.
And that terrible cle team he took to a playoff win -- you don't win in cle unless it's pure luck.
I need to get that guy to pick me some lottery numbers.
Talk about horseshoe up the ###.
Brady in the 6th doesn't happen often, then when you add cassel on top of that...........those stars won't line up again for 100 years.
And i almost forgot the giants -- taylor fell right in his lap like he was a 15 yo hooker.
And that terrible cle team he took to a playoff win -- you don't win in cle unless it's pure luck.
I need to get that guy to pick me some lottery numbers.
Talk about horseshoe up the ###.
I think Belichick is largely a victim of: A) his own success; B) his brusqueness with the media, which is consequently all-to-happy to expound on his negatives and spin stories until they're grotesque versions of the truth (the 'spygate' nonsense is tops here).What's really sickening is, he's actually a good man. There are plenty of stories of him helping guys out around the league--John Harbaugh owes his job to a BB reference, for instance. There's an epic ESPN story about him stopping on the freeway to help accident victims when everyone else was just flying by. The other guy who stopped got starstruck, and Belichick, busy giving first aid to a person who'd suffered head trauma, gave him a "are you F-ing kidding me?" glare. But he's an irredeemable jerk because he gives lousy interviews after tough losses.
And now, the SB Champion Baltimore Ravens, with the supposedly brilliant Ozzie Newsome at GM, get totally gutted within the first few days of free agency, and what's the big story? 'Arrogant Belichick embarrasses himself' by losing Wes Welker, despite having already replaced him a day earlier. Look at the ESPN story from a few days ago that spun Brady's lenient contract demands as proof the Patriots are finished!
When it comes to Bill Belichick people are in the twilight zone.
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wodahSShadow
Footballguy
Don't know how they slipped my mind. Gibbs would probably be right after them.
CalBear
Footballguy
Also C) the intolerable smugness of Patriots homers.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
bb learned how to deal with the nitwits a long time ago in cle -- I'd suggest you follow his example and not waste your time.
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
How so?This strange "point" comes up all the time, and every time, I have asked what could possibly be on those tapes that make everyone thinks there's an NFL conspiracy? Other than BB molesting children, what could possibly be on those tapes. The first tape was released. Why would anyone think the others were any different? I'd like to hear your craziest ideas. What else could possibly have been on them?The tapes were made illegally. The commish ruled, fined and took away draft picks. And when it was all over, he destroyed the tapes.eta - Nobody has ever answered this question when I asked it.
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
Conspiracy theorists suggest there was more on those tapes than what was released to the public (in terms of other forms of cheating).
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
That is what I'm trying to find out. They all think there was more on the tapes, I just want to know what they think. That seems to be a mystery.
