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Personal Finance Advice and Education! (6 Viewers)

The Z Machine said:
Talk to me about long term disability insurance for me and my wife.  I already have term life insurance with Northwestern Mutual.
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I'm in the process now.

If you are dependent upon your income, it's a good idea.  If you're financially independent and could say screw working ever again--you no longer need it.  It's typically on the expensive side--because your risk of becoming disabled between now and 65 is higher than your risk of dying during most term policies.  They make money on this, they've done the math.  

This is for long-term.  If you've got a solid emergency fund--I wouldn't put money towards short term.  

Most places recommend ~60% of your gross income--which is about your post-tax income.  

Use one of the big 5/6 companies.  Make sure it's true own-occupation disability insurance. 

You want a policy that is "non-cancellable" and "guaranteed renewable" meaning so long as you pay the policy--they can't cancel you and they have to renew you at the same price.  

Your Long term disability insurance from work is better than nothing, but probably not very good.  Most work policies only pay out for 2 years and then play the game of "Can you answer phones for minimum wage?  If so, you're no longer disabled."

You buy it from an independent agent who gets a commission for selling it to you.  The good ones get repeat referrals and thus your reputation is a big deal.  The agent can really get into the details with you and explain it well.  

I've learned a lot from this website called the White Coat investor.  They talk about doctors, but I think the principles really apply across the board.

If you're only up to read one or a few of the links--read the top one for sure.

https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/individual-disability-insurance-basics/

https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/ins-and-outs-of-disability-insurance/

https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-disability-insurance/

https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/how-much-disability-insurance/

https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/disability-vs-life-insurance/

 
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jm192 said:
I would think surely they can't pass it in March and say my January contributions are illegal.  I mean I guess with the current batch of Dems running things--anything is possible.  But I would sure hope that's not the case.  
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tonydead said:
I think it would be more like, you owe us tax on that taxable transaction.  Which yes, it would suck because you would never do that knowing you were going to be taxed.  

I'll have a better answer by next Thursday, hopefully.  I work for a pretty big company that's been strategically using this so I'm sure they have it thought out as best as humanly possible.  
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The advice we are getting is to sit tight. We expect the slim chance it passes it would be retroactive.  Put money aside to make it up later when BBB is dead. Hopefully we have clearer direction after the first quarter.  

 
In case it's not obvious, what I mean by putting money aside is to bank it so you can pay yourself (to live on) later when you Jack up your after tax payroll contibution.  

 
cubd8 said:
End of Year Review of my 401k

My 401K rate of return has been excellent: 24.48%
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Very nice on the year.  Your funds are simple and pretty low fee, so looking very reasonable.

My EOY review:

Net worth up 24%, investments up 34%.  Investments include a big RE item, which was quite accretive and distorts the returns.  For portfolio return I think I am somewhere in the 21% range, which is very solid.

All told we're at 39x expenses.  I'd retire if I knew what the heck to do with myself.  And it's nice being dormy and desperately needed.  Creates a power imbalance I enjoy maybe a bit too much (not really :P ). And it looks like we're being sold early in the year and I'm curious as to how that turns out.  Maybe I'll actually get access to mega backdoor Roths, etc.

 
Up 17% in 2021 after 63% in 2020, not including home equity. Eldest would/should start college in 2034, youngest would finish in 2041. Goal is to have house paid off and retirement settled by 2034 so can help the (3) kids with school. 2041, I'll be 62 and the wife would be 59. If we can figure out insurance it would be nice to be able to be in position to pull the trigger then.

Last two years have certainly helped. Heavy in small caps, which were basically flat since late February.

Current Allocation:

Small Cap--27.7%
Total Market--24.5%
S&P--16%
REIT--9.7%
Int'l--8.3%
Cash--5.1%
Metals--4.7%
Bonds--2.6%
Tech--1.3%
Crypto--.1%
Large Cap--.1%

 
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Sand said:
All told we're at 39x expenses.  I'd retire if I knew what the heck to do with myself.  
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While it’s easy for others to look at that and contemplate what we think we’d do in that situation, I probably wouldn’t retire yet either. I do recommend considering what things / experiences you value and doing more of that, or giving to your favorite causes. I know you do a good amount of that already, but what really does your money mean to you? 
For us, we’re taking more vacations and we’ll either buy an SUV (probably pilot or highlander) or remodel the bathroom. Wife wants to do both, I’m reluctant to spend That much right now.  

We’re at 22x expenses, but my planned withdrawal rate is less than that - most in the financial community use 4% (25x) as the rule, I’m using 6%. Our risk of running out is almost zero with the pensions and if we get SS at our current estimate we’ll have more income at 70 (accounting for inflation) than we spend now. Most likely we’ll spend less at that point but we’ll see. 

fwiw, the 6% rate is not the same as the “4% rule”.  We’re planning 3% of our initial investments plus 3% of that year’s investments.  So it’s more flexible. With the 4 year cash / bond cushion (mostly I bonds) this will be smooth enough for our needs.

24% annual gain (after contributions) on investments, which is more than 3x my 2021 salary / 1.75x total income. 3rd year in a row where investments have exceeded our income. 

 
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-OZ- said:
While it’s easy for others to look at that and contemplate what we think we’d do in that situation, I probably wouldn’t retire yet either. I do recommend considering what things / experiences you value and doing more of that, or giving to your favorite causes. I know you do a good amount of that already, but what really does your money mean to you? 
For us, we’re taking more vacations and we’ll either buy an SUV (probably pilot or highlander) or remodel the bathroom. Wife wants to do both, I’m reluctant to spend That much right now.  
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Well, definitely need a new roof, so that's a chunk.  And hopefully doing more travel.  Last two years have been a washout from that point of view.  We give plenty to charity - this year I ended up opening a DAF to control that.

-OZ- said:
We’re at 22x expenses, but my planned withdrawal rate is less than that - most in the financial community use 4% (25x) as the rule, I’m using 6%. Our risk of running out is almost zero with the pensions and if we get SS at our current estimate we’ll have more income at 70 (accounting for inflation) than we spend now. Most likely we’ll spend less at that point but we’ll see. 
 

24% annual gain (after contributions) on investments, which is more than 3x my 2021 salary / 1.75x total income. 3rd year in a row where investments have exceeded our income. 
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I think if you substracted out your pensions from spending you'd be way over 22x, no?  Pensions are incredible from that point of view.  Thanks in decent part to that RE deal I was at 4x salary from investment gains.  

I have a side investment thing going (not passive) that if it turns out the way I predict my expense multiple will be ♾️. 

 
Sand said:
I think if you substracted out your pensions from spending you'd be way over 22x, no?  Pensions are incredible from that point of view.  
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The 22x is after taking out the pension. 
Not real numbers but let’s say my expenses were $100,000 and the pension is $50,000 annual, ($50,000 out of pocket) we would have $1.1million. 

 
Sand said:
Well, definitely need a new roof, so that's a chunk.  And hopefully doing more travel.  Last two years have been a washout from that point of view.  We give plenty to charity - this year I ended up opening a DAF to control that.

I think if you substracted out your pensions from spending you'd be way over 22x, no?  Pensions are incredible from that point of view.  Thanks in decent part to that RE deal I was at 4x salary from investment gains.  

I have a side investment thing going (not passive) that if it turns out the way I predict my expense multiple will be ♾️. 
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go on about the infinity…

 
Overall it does look like our networth increased just over 33% last year. It will be a few weeks before I can calculate the other main metric I track, the effective savings rate, but it projects to be in the 40s. Not bad for having roughly flat income from work, but the investment returns could be better (too much cash)

 
Orange&Blue said:
My parents moved states and my dad seems to think that he needs to roll Colorado 529s to the Oklahoma 529s.  Is that true and when is the best time to do that?
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Add to the responses that no, you don’t have to.  I have money in two state 529 plans.  I would say if he does think about consolidating, he needs to read the fine print.  I was going to roll from IA to IN to only have one pot, but if I did IA required me to repay the tax credits I’d received.  

 
wilked said:
Reminder - get your backdoor Roth’s done early! 
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Sorry...this answer is probably buried in the thread...

What's the status of this?  It's buried in congress right now?  So as of this moment, it's still legal to do the backdoor? 

So what happens if do backdoor Roth contribution this week...and the legislation is passed next week?  Can it impact past contributions?  And if so, is that a headache to untangle?

 
Fruitbat said:
Sorry...this answer is probably buried in the thread...

What's the status of this?  It's buried in congress right now?  So as of this moment, it's still legal to do the backdoor? 

So what happens if do backdoor Roth contribution this week...and the legislation is passed next week?  Can it impact past contributions?  And if so, is that a headache to untangle?
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Lots of Qs here 

yes, legislature is tied up 

yes, it’s legal now, same as last year 

the law should speak to what is to happen to backdoor Roth rollovers that occurred before the law was passed (if it’s passed). As of yet that language is not drafted. 
 

currently It is a little tricky to disentangle. My guess is they will allow a one time exemption to undo the rollover, turn it back into a tIRA, if they want to make it retroactive. I’m not concerned, there will be millions of others in the same boat 

Edit to add - if I was in charge of it I’d just make it effective 2023. Why make things complex for no strong reason? They missed the window for 2022, so they should move to 2023 

 
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Question:

I have my 401K account, a personal investment account and some money in bitcoin. What other investments, if any, do you recommend for me? I would prefer something that I can be hands-off on, but I am not educated as well on tax implications and other laws that could limit financial options for me. I can provide more details, but wanted to see what others would recommend....

 
cubd8 said:
Question:

I have my 401K account, a personal investment account and some money in bitcoin. What other investments, if any, do you recommend for me? I would prefer something that I can be hands-off on, but I am not educated as well on tax implications and other laws that could limit financial options for me. I can provide more details, but wanted to see what others would recommend....
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Diversification-wise I'd ask if you have any Bonds in your investment accounts and then suggest some sort of real estate or precious metals exposure. 

 
cubd8 said:
Question:

I have my 401K account, a personal investment account and some money in bitcoin. What other investments, if any, do you recommend for me? I would prefer something that I can be hands-off on, but I am not educated as well on tax implications and other laws that could limit financial options for me. I can provide more details, but wanted to see what others would recommend....
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I-Bonds.  They are from the US govt. so as secure as can be.  Right now at 7.1% and will adjust after 6 months based on inflation.  Good primer.  You control when you realize the tax gains as they don't shed interest until you cash them in.  Limit is 10k per SSN per year.

You buy through Treasury Direct.

 
Sand said:
I-Bonds.  They are from the US govt. so as secure as can be.  Right now at 7.1% and will adjust after 6 months based on inflation.  Good primer.  You control when you realize the tax gains as they don't shed interest until you cash them in.  Limit is 10k per SSN per year.

You buy through Treasury Direct.
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Thanks for the reminder.  I hit the limit in Q4 last year and wanted to get in at the 7.1% in Q1 2022 for my annual limit.

 
cubd8 said:
Question:

I have my 401K account, a personal investment account and some money in bitcoin. What other investments, if any, do you recommend for me? I would prefer something that I can be hands-off on, but I am not educated as well on tax implications and other laws that could limit financial options for me. I can provide more details, but wanted to see what others would recommend....
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Can you do an HSA? Best deal out there (double tax break)

 
Sand said:
I-Bonds.  They are from the US govt. so as secure as can be.  Right now at 7.1% and will adjust after 6 months based on inflation.  Good primer.  You control when you realize the tax gains as they don't shed interest until you cash them in.  Limit is 10k per SSN per year.

You buy through Treasury Direct.
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Trying to decide if the smart move is one I usually wouldn’t do. 
$20k margin loan at 2%, move the money straight into I bonds. Pay that back by mid year. The point would be to get it in and get the 6 months at 7% before the rate changes. This would cost like $33/month so maybe $200 before paying it off. Getting it in before May locks in the $700 (6 month) gain. 

 
-OZ- said:
Trying to decide if the smart move is one I usually wouldn’t do. 
$20k margin loan at 2%, move the money straight into I bonds. Pay that back by mid year. The point would be to get it in and get the 6 months at 7% before the rate changes. This would cost like $33/month so maybe $200 before paying it off. Getting it in before May locks in the $700 (6 month) gain. 
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Usually I'd say a margin loan to invest is an awful idea, but this is a no lose - unless the US govt. defaults.  And then a silly margin loan doesn't really matter much.  I'd absolutely go for this.  :thumbup:   In fact, I wouldn't even call this a loan - it's pure arbitrage.

A few years back I took the smallest loan on my wife's car that I could to grab the $500 bonus for taking one.  Then paid it off in two and pocketed $400 or so.  

 
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We overshot my wife's 401K.   Before we were married she never maxed out the 401K. We changed the rates so that she maxed it out last year.
Then this year she went part time and has made less. In October, I realized we were going to undershoot the 19,500 max. I changed the contribution rate to their maximum allowed which is 85%.

My Job cuts off 401K contributions after the max. I'm set at a certain percentage, but once we hit the limit--not a penny more goes in.

I checked her account last night. It said we got all the way to 20,750$ and some change. Do some places not cut off contributions after the max? Is it possibly because she went from part time to full time? While she was full time she got a match--but Prudential clearly lists the match amount and "Employee Deferral" which is the 20,750$.

What do we need to do? Is it as simple as contacting HR? Any tips on how to avoid going over in the future?

 
jm192 said:
I checked her account last night. It said we got all the way to 20,750$ and some change. Do some places not cut off contributions after the max? Is it possibly because she went from part time to full time? While she was full time she got a match--but Prudential clearly lists the match amount and "Employee Deferral" which is the 20,750$.

What do we need to do? Is it as simple as contacting HR? Any tips on how to avoid going over in the future?
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That seems to be in error.  HR will likely need to withdraw that and send it to you as taxable monies.  Unless she's 50, then you're good.

As far as avoiding that this year it depends on how stable the income is.  You may need to triangulate on a moving target through the year if it's all over the place.  Can you setup a fixed amount withdrawal per paycheck?

 
So, I accepted a job offer (hooray me) and I had an HSA and 401k at my soon to be old job. I’m just going to roll the 401k into an existing IRA like I always do. My last day will be around the 18th. Can I hurry up an contribute the 2022 max to my HSA before my final day? 

 
McBokonon said:
So, I accepted a job offer (hooray me) and I had an HSA and 401k at my soon to be old job. I’m just going to roll the 401k into an existing IRA like I always do. My last day will be around the 18th. Can I hurry up an contribute the 2022 max to my HSA before my final day? 
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My understanding is you have to prorate it for the amount of time you were eligible.  
 

Can you get an HSA at the new job?  If you so, you can roll the current HSA into your new job’s plan.  

 
jm192 said:
My understanding is you have to prorate it for the amount of time you were eligible.  
 

Can you get an HSA at the new job?  If you so, you can roll the current HSA into your new job’s plan.  
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Bummer. No, no HSA otherwise that’s what I’d do.

 
McBokonon said:
So, I accepted a job offer (hooray me) and I had an HSA and 401k at my soon to be old job. I’m just going to roll the 401k into an existing IRA like I always do. My last day will be around the 18th. Can I hurry up an contribute the 2022 max to my HSA before my final day? 
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Do you have an FSA? Even if you haven’t contributed you can use the whole amount and your company would have to pony up the difference. I was really surprised but I had looked it up knowing that I have used the whole thing up a couple times in January lying for braces. I looked it up because I just wondered what would happen if I left since you contribute the entire year but can use the whole amount right away.

 
stbugs said:
Do you have an FSA? Even if you haven’t contributed you can use the whole amount and your company would have to pony up the difference. I was really surprised but I had looked it up knowing that I have used the whole thing up a couple times in January lying for braces. I looked it up because I just wondered what would happen if I left since you contribute the entire year but can use the whole amount right away.
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Not at the soon to be old job. I’ll have an FSA option at the new place but I’m not 100% sure it’s a good fit for me. I have time to look into it, though.

 
McBokonon said:
Not at the soon to be old job. I’ll have an FSA option at the new place but I’m not 100% sure it’s a good fit for me. I have time to look into it, though.
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It’s been great for us, especially once my wife rejoined the workforce in earnest 5+ years ago. Any income that I can make non-taxable saves us at a high tax rate since it comes off the top and it’s not something you pay taxes on later. It’s use it or lose it so you have to be smart, but between dental stuff that’s never fully covered aside from cleanings, glasses and kid stuff like braces, I don’t think I ever lost more than a few dollars, way less than the tax savings. Even cough medicine and prescriptions are covered and I think they must have changed it recently because I was able to rollover. Just about to finish paying for my last set of braces now that it’s 2022. They aren’t cheap and I just pay for it all up front instead of monthly by using what I had left and then the max the next year. Basically, no money out of pocket (mentally at least) and I’m saving almost 40% versus if I used after tax.

After this year, I will definitely cut back. Braces for 3 boys after the $1k or $1500 that insurance allows basically used up almost 4 years of FSA.

 
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stbugs said:
It’s been great for us, especially once my wife rejoined the workforce in earnest 5+ years ago. Any income that I can make non-taxable saves us at a high tax rate since it comes off the top and it’s not something you pay taxes on later. It’s use it or lose it so you have to be smart, but between dental stuff that’s never fully covered aside from cleanings, glasses and kid stuff like braces, I don’t think I ever lost more than a few dollars, way less than the tax savings. Even cough medicine and prescriptions are covered and I think they must have changed it recently because I was able to rollover. Just about to finish paying for my last set of braces now that it’s 2022. They aren’t cheap and I just pay for it all up front instead of monthly by using what I had left and then the max the next year. Basically, no money out of pocket (mentally at least) and I’m saving almost 40% versus if I used after tax.

After this year, I will definitely cut back. Braces for 3 boys after the $1k or $1500 that insurance allows basically used up almost 4 years of FSA.
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Yeah, I don't have kids. My gf runs her own business and pay for her insurance through that. I feel like I'd be forcing myself to pay for medical expenses I don't actually need, but I will keep it in mind if I plan on getting anything major done.

 
McBokonon said:
Yeah, I don't have kids. My gf runs her own business and pay for her insurance through that. I feel like I'd be forcing myself to pay for medical expenses I don't actually need, but I will keep it in mind if I plan on getting anything major done.
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Yeah, you need to have a good use for it. Kids tend to help suck the money out of you so paying with pretax money can help. Just on braces, probably saved $4k in taxes so I got 1 of 3 sets of braces for free. Makes me feel a little better. Just a little.

 
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This will be our first year with an FSA. dumb question but how do we get the money out? I’m only contributing like $50 a pay period but it’s something. (Our max out of pocket is $3,000) 

 
-OZ- said:
This will be our first year with an FSA. dumb question but how do we get the money out? I’m only contributing like $50 a pay period but it’s something. (Our max out of pocket is $3,000) 
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I have a debit card so I either use that right at the place (way easier) or you can file a claim on the web site and send a copy of the receipts. I have been asked before for the receipts even if I used the debit card but it only takes a second to take a picture and email it.

Not sure what you mean by out of pocket because that doesn’t matter for FSA unless your plan is to use it to cover medical expenses you know will not be covered. You can use it for any medical/dental/eyewear/drugs/etc expense that you pay for and not insurance paid.

I think the limit is around $2700 and that gets divided equally from all paychecks but that $2700 is in your FSA to use day 1. Like I mentioned above, now that it’s 2022, I’ll be going to the orthodontist and paying off my youngest’s braces. I haven’t paid in a dime yet.

 
wilked said:
Lots of Qs here 

yes, legislature is tied up 

yes, it’s legal now, same as last year 

the law should speak to what is to happen to backdoor Roth rollovers that occurred before the law was passed (if it’s passed). As of yet that language is not drafted. 
 

currently It is a little tricky to disentangle. My guess is they will allow a one time exemption to undo the rollover, turn it back into a tIRA, if they want to make it retroactive. I’m not concerned, there will be millions of others in the same boat 

Edit to add - if I was in charge of it I’d just make it effective 2023. Why make things complex for no strong reason? They missed the window for 2022, so they should move to 2023 
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Damn i didn’t  know this.  Was planning on doing one.  So are you saying there is a chance i may have to undo it if i do one?

 
ROR-2021  

Blend of Standard Elections in 401k - 17.12%  (I really should take this $ and put it somewhere else)

Self Directed in 401K - 20.69%  (AMZN holding me down)

Self Directed ROTH - 25.17

Self Directed Brokerage - 23.45%

Privately Held Co Stock ~50% (not officially announced until the end of this month after accounting)

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Damn i didn’t  know this.  Was planning on doing one.  So are you saying there is a chance i may have to undo it if i do one?
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Slim chance.  But they'll have to give us a way to undo it if they do this.

Retroactive tax changes are absurdly unpopular.  I'll be shocked if they do it.  

If you wait, they may outlaw it effective that day.  And then you don't have the option.  

 
Sand said:
I-Bonds.  They are from the US govt. so as secure as can be.  Right now at 7.1% and will adjust after 6 months based on inflation.  Good primer.  You control when you realize the tax gains as they don't shed interest until you cash them in.  Limit is 10k per SSN per year.

You buy through Treasury Direct.
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That link says to make two TD accounts so you can purchase 10K for yourself and 10K for your wife.  Can't I just purchase her 10K in my account as a named registrant or a gift?

 
stbugs said:
I have a debit card so I either use that right at the place (way easier) or you can file a claim on the web site and send a copy of the receipts. I have been asked before for the receipts even if I used the debit card but it only takes a second to take a picture and email it.

Not sure what you mean by out of pocket because that doesn’t matter for FSA unless your plan is to use it to cover medical expenses you know will not be covered. You can use it for any medical/dental/eyewear/drugs/etc expense that you pay for and not insurance paid.

I think the limit is around $2700 and that gets divided equally from all paychecks but that $2700 is in your FSA to use day 1. Like I mentioned above, now that it’s 2022, I’ll be going to the orthodontist and paying off my youngest’s braces. I haven’t paid in a dime yet.
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Thanks. 
yeah, out of pocket meant not covered by insurance. 

 
tonydead said:
That link says to make two TD accounts so you can purchase 10K for yourself and 10K for your wife.  Can't I just purchase her 10K in my account as a named registrant or a gift?
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Don't know on that one.  I did one for myself and one for my wife.  

 
tonydead said:
That link says to make two TD accounts so you can purchase 10K for yourself and 10K for your wife.  Can't I just purchase her 10K in my account as a named registrant or a gift?
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BTW, I do know you can get 5k more by overpaying taxes by that amount.  I have read of using a trust (separate SSN) to get another 10k, as well.

You've now reached the very edge of my knowledge.

 
-OZ- said:
This will be our first year with an FSA. dumb question but how do we get the money out? I’m only contributing like $50 a pay period but it’s something. (Our max out of pocket is $3,000) 
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I assume you’re doing FSA Feds? You can do everything through their website. There’s an app too but I find the website to be easier. I’ve heard of there being FSA cards to use to pay directly but I’ve never looked into it. I usually just pay on a points cc and then have my fsa reimburse me. Or if I get a bill I wasn’t expecting and that doctor charges extra to pay with a cc online, I just pay them directly through the website. I’ve had some payments take a long time and I get final notices but everything has eventually worked out. 

 
dgreen said:
I assume you’re doing FSA Feds? You can do everything through their website. There’s an app too but I find the website to be easier. I’ve heard of there being FSA cards to use to pay directly but I’ve never looked into it. I usually just pay on a points cc and then have my fsa reimburse me. Or if I get a bill I wasn’t expecting and that doctor charges extra to pay with a cc online, I just pay them directly through the website. I’ve had some payments take a long time and I get final notices but everything has eventually worked out. 
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Thanks, I’ll probably do the same. We pay almost everything by CC. 

 
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