LittlePhatty
Footballguy
I guess we could all just go back and forth repeating exactly what we said in our last post. That would make for a great thread.
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Official Johnny Manziel Thread (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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OrangeJulius
Footballguy
Yeah, we should judge every player by one bad game - that makes sense. And Jax D is not that bad btw.
MAC_32
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Riversco
Footballguy
I'll say it again since it apparently hasn't been mentioned.
Hoyer's strongest attribute is his play in the 4th quarter. He has 9 starts for the Browns and 5 4th quarter comebacks. That to me is the most thing a QB needs to do. Its very hard to find a quarterback who you can rely on in the 4th quarter. Manziel might be a better QB but I doubt he can perform like that in the 4th quarter.
Hoyer is unbenchable because of those 4th quarter comebacks. You cannot teach what he has. He elevates his play with the game on the line.
Hoyer is a big game, big moment, pressure QB. However, he doesn't have the complete skillset to ever be the guy who will have a monster statistical season. For fantasy football purposes, Hoyer sucks. But I'm sure Pettine loves him.
Hoyer is a very unique mix at QB. I'm not sure I can think of another QB like him.
Hoyer's strongest attribute is his play in the 4th quarter. He has 9 starts for the Browns and 5 4th quarter comebacks. That to me is the most thing a QB needs to do. Its very hard to find a quarterback who you can rely on in the 4th quarter. Manziel might be a better QB but I doubt he can perform like that in the 4th quarter.
Hoyer is unbenchable because of those 4th quarter comebacks. You cannot teach what he has. He elevates his play with the game on the line.
Hoyer is a big game, big moment, pressure QB. However, he doesn't have the complete skillset to ever be the guy who will have a monster statistical season. For fantasy football purposes, Hoyer sucks. But I'm sure Pettine loves him.
Hoyer is a very unique mix at QB. I'm not sure I can think of another QB like him.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
He's having a season that looks somewhat like Alex Smith's in terms of game management. It's a winning style with few key mistakes.
But his Y/A is 5th in the league, right between Peyton Manning and Roethlisberger.
One other thing: he appears to have the support of the locker an the players when they're on the field.
Riversco
Footballguy
Brian Hoyer is not a game manager. A game manager is someone that limits his mistakes and can hold the lead if you already have it but if you are down in the 4th quarter, you are screwed.
Hoyer WILL make huge plays in the 4th quarter to put you back in the lead if you are down.
His skill set is limited though.
Alex smith has 100 starts and like 10 4th quarter comebacks. He's a game manager. He very rarely brings you back.
Brian Hoyer has strapped the Browns on his back in his 4th quarter and pulled them out of the fire multiple times this year.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Hoyer earned the starting job with his play on the field. He owns the locker room and has total command over the huddle due to the fact everyone respects him. He busted his butt to come back from an ACL injury months ahead of schedule so in camp AND earlier in the year that was still effecting him.
He came into this season without the NFL's leading receiver and has taken a team with two 5'7 guys and a constantly injured TE to form a semblance of passing game as he has guided his team alone atop the division, the first time that has happened since the Clinton administration.
Per the one bad game he had, asinine to pat yerself on the butt thinking that you made a great point about the Jacksonville game, feh. The team had lost its starting center. That center wasn't just a guy, Alex Mack was a Pro Bowl center but he wasn't just a Pro Bowl center he had never missed a single snap in his entire career so the team didn't invest a ton in a backup center for a guy who was in his prime and hadn't missed a snap so they put in a guard who had never played center before and it was a disaster.
Jon Greco has played great at guard all year but when they moved him to center it severely weakened his RG slot because they put in the horrific Paul McKisten who utterly bombed big time and Greco was soo out of kilt at center that he not only screwed up the exchange at least three times he also snapped the GD ball on fourth and ten accidentally when he was supposed to NOT SNAP the ball because the coaching staff was trying to drive the Jaguars offsides. In addition to Greco's poor and ill-timed snaps he missed assignments all game long.
Those things were not the only issue but with TWO GUYS playing like coiled piles of soft bull crap on the O-Line the Browns bread-and-butter run game never got going at all that game. The slide-zone blocking scheme runs thru the interior of the line where precision timing is the key to making it work but without the blocking working the running game died. No running game, no play action passing game and that is the reason why Hoyer has consistently had one of the highest average per completions in the league today because the running game forces defenses to cheat daring Hoyer to beat em deep and guess what? HE DOES. He's more than a game manager, he's a maestro of the offense. If any moron could run the offense then we'd see other QB with one of the highest average per completions in the game and they'd also consistently have their team alone atop their divisions in mid November but guess what? WE DON'T.
So the loss of Mack had more of an effect on that game than your lame argument that it was all Brian Hoyer's fault of that he's ONLY A GAME MANAGER. Sheesh. Have you EVEN WATCHED A FOOTBALL GAME BEFORE?
He came into this season without the NFL's leading receiver and has taken a team with two 5'7 guys and a constantly injured TE to form a semblance of passing game as he has guided his team alone atop the division, the first time that has happened since the Clinton administration.
Per the one bad game he had, asinine to pat yerself on the butt thinking that you made a great point about the Jacksonville game, feh. The team had lost its starting center. That center wasn't just a guy, Alex Mack was a Pro Bowl center but he wasn't just a Pro Bowl center he had never missed a single snap in his entire career so the team didn't invest a ton in a backup center for a guy who was in his prime and hadn't missed a snap so they put in a guard who had never played center before and it was a disaster.
Jon Greco has played great at guard all year but when they moved him to center it severely weakened his RG slot because they put in the horrific Paul McKisten who utterly bombed big time and Greco was soo out of kilt at center that he not only screwed up the exchange at least three times he also snapped the GD ball on fourth and ten accidentally when he was supposed to NOT SNAP the ball because the coaching staff was trying to drive the Jaguars offsides. In addition to Greco's poor and ill-timed snaps he missed assignments all game long.
Those things were not the only issue but with TWO GUYS playing like coiled piles of soft bull crap on the O-Line the Browns bread-and-butter run game never got going at all that game. The slide-zone blocking scheme runs thru the interior of the line where precision timing is the key to making it work but without the blocking working the running game died. No running game, no play action passing game and that is the reason why Hoyer has consistently had one of the highest average per completions in the league today because the running game forces defenses to cheat daring Hoyer to beat em deep and guess what? HE DOES. He's more than a game manager, he's a maestro of the offense. If any moron could run the offense then we'd see other QB with one of the highest average per completions in the game and they'd also consistently have their team alone atop their divisions in mid November but guess what? WE DON'T.
So the loss of Mack had more of an effect on that game than your lame argument that it was all Brian Hoyer's fault of that he's ONLY A GAME MANAGER. Sheesh. Have you EVEN WATCHED A FOOTBALL GAME BEFORE?
OrangeJulius
Footballguy
Johnny Manziel is the better football player with much more upside than Hoyer.
Hoyer is a backup who is playing well, managing the game, that is led by a run dominant offense with very talented backs and a good o-line...
The Browns have a very difficult decision to make after this year. I hope their football people are paying attention to their practices and the limited snaps Manziel gets....
Hoyer is a backup who is playing well, managing the game, that is led by a run dominant offense with very talented backs and a good o-line...
The Browns have a very difficult decision to make after this year. I hope their football people are paying attention to their practices and the limited snaps Manziel gets....
Riversco
Footballguy
Actually what I think might happen with Hoyer is if he's given time to play, his skill set might expand. Remember, he tore his ACL a year ago. It takes two years to fully recover from that. His deep ball looked better before the ACL tear. His deep ball might return to form in 2015.
I don't think he will lose the ability to win games in the 4th quarter. That ability never seems to be learned or unlearned. Once a player shows that ability, it stays with them for their career.
I don't think he will lose the ability to win games in the 4th quarter. That ability never seems to be learned or unlearned. Once a player shows that ability, it stays with them for their career.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Hoyer is playing at a high level right now so his upside is lower than a guy who hasn't really played but the point is to win games and Hoyer gives the Browns the best chance to win games.
I think panicked Manziel owners see the NFL's leading WR from last year coming back on Monday and they know Hoyer is going to look that much better once he is part of the offense so they are making desperate calls for Manziel, sorry ain't gonna happen.
I think panicked Manziel owners see the NFL's leading WR from last year coming back on Monday and they know Hoyer is going to look that much better once he is part of the offense so they are making desperate calls for Manziel, sorry ain't gonna happen.
OrangeJulius
Footballguy
No - I said - "I hope their football people are paying attention in practices" so they make the correct decision on Hoyer...
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
OrangeJulius
Footballguy
We may see Johnny today if this crap continues!
MAC_32
Footballguy
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
Tim Tebow is a better football player with much more upside than Manziel. That is a proven, undisputable fact. The Browns need to trade Manziel and sign Tebow if they want a serious chance at a playoff run.OrangeJulius said:
OrangeJulius
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
How many playoff games has Manziel won?? Tim Tebow is a proven playoff producer. That fact simply cannot be ignored.
OrangeJulius
Footballguy
Hoyer just "game managed" 7 points on offense at home vs Texans!!!
Johnny will be coming soon!
Johnny will be coming soon!
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Peyton Marino
Footballguy
Tone it down a little bit. You need to be a little more subtle about this stuff. Go read my work over the last few pages and take some notes.
MAC_32
Footballguy
OrangeJulius
Footballguy
And there you have it - he put an extra rabbit turd on top of the Duk-ey performance...
OrangeJulius
Footballguy
Hoyer completed 16 of 41 passes...
I don't think that is a good percentage...
I don't think that is a good percentage...
MAC_32
Footballguy
Start watching games. Or blame Hoyer for Austin drops. One would do you well. Other keeps you looking a fool.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Manziel super bowl!
OrangeJulius
Footballguy
I watched the entire thing...
Hoyer is not a franchise QB!!!
MAC_32
Footballguy
butmanzielsuperbowl!I watched the entire thing...Hoyer is not a franchise QB!!!
OrangeJulius
Footballguy
Manziel should be in for this garbage time...
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I did too, shameful performance, his team only scored 7 points losing in an embarrassing fashion.I watched the entire thing...
Hoyer is not a franchise QB!!!
But because Peyton Manning threw for over 300 yards so he was GREAT.
Oh wait, we're talking Hoyer so he sucked right? Lol.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Some bad WR play and some problems controlling the defensive front, but let's not pretend Hoyer played no part in this mess. He's made some terrible throws.
MAC_32
Footballguy
nobody played well. Hoyer included. Calling for his job is just as stupid now as it was after Jacksonville though.Some bad WR play and some problems controlling the defensive front, but let's not pretend Hoyer played no part in this mess. He's made some terrible throws.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
I agree. He's the starter for the season.nobody played well. Hoyer included. Calling for his job is just as stupid now as it was after Jacksonville though.Some bad WR play and some problems controlling the defensive front, but let's not pretend Hoyer played no part in this mess. He's made some terrible throws.
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
If they put up a goose egg in Atlanta, we see Manziel.
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Peyton Marino
Footballguy
Also how 'bout them first place Bengals in the thick of things for playoff HFA.
FairWarning
Footballguy
We will know much more after a couple of weeks with Gordon back.
OrangeJulius
Footballguy
Why do you say that?nobody played well. Hoyer included. Calling for his job is just as stupid now as it was after Jacksonville though.Some bad WR play and some problems controlling the defensive front, but let's not pretend Hoyer played no part in this mess. He's made some terrible throws.
I'm from Wisconsin - and know a thing or two about franchise quarterbacks...
Hoyer is no franchise quarterback.
I say "stop wasting time" and go with Johnny...
Riversco
Footballguy
I'm not even sure you can evaluate Hoyer on his 2014 at all. He tore his ACL a year ago.
Tom Brady tore an ACL, and the next year his numbers were way down across the board. It was actually one of his worst seasons. He didn't return to form until 2 years after the ACL.
amnesiac
beer is good
interesting point. but i don't believe he's going to be cut any slack for that.
he is outplaying Manziel in practice and that is why he's starting.
if they thought Manziel have them a better chance to win, he'd be starting. it's possible that could still happen this season.
but the clamoring for Manziel every time Hoyer has a bad game is ridiculous.
MAC_32
Footballguy
your non franchise qb has this team where it has so infrequently been over the last two decades. With absolutely nothing around him on offense. But, yeah. Bench him.Why do you say that?I'm from Wisconsin - and know a thing or two about franchise quarterbacks...nobody played well. Hoyer included. Calling for his job is just as stupid now as it was after Jacksonville though.Some bad WR play and some problems controlling the defensive front, but let's not pretend Hoyer played no part in this mess. He's made some terrible throws.
Hoyer is no franchise quarterback.
I say "stop wasting time" and go with Johnny...
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
You're from Wisconsin?
Why didn't you say that from the get-go?
Say no more, that settles all conversation.
amnesiac
beer is good
getting a touch off topic, but Gordon has been allowed to practice during the suspension, yes?
MAC_32
Footballguy
no, just meetings.
MAC_32
Footballguy
pretty sure most outside of northeast ohio just scream Manziel. Around here? Not so much. Going to make me pretty happy after we net a couple of w's in a row.
