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Deck pricing and materials questions (1 Viewer)

The Big Guy

The Big Guy

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I am having a new deck and steps put in and the contractor gave us an estimate for like 8500. I have no clue if this is a fair price or a bend over price. He is talkingabout using Wolf ASA capped PVC decking, which is supposed to be better than Trex at keeping color and staying weatherproof (mold and mildew resistant).

We are looking at an 8x10 rear deck and 4x6 front steps with railings and front posts. Does this sound excessive pricing? Anyone have this stuff installed at their house?

Adding that there is demo of both old stairs and all concrete patio below this decking, so that will add to the pricing for sure.

 
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The Big Guy said:
I am having a new deck and steps put in and the contractor gave us an estimate for like 8500. I have no clue if this is a fair price or a bend over price. He is talkingabout using Wolf ASA capped PVC decking, which is supposed to be better than Trex at keeping color and staying weatherproof (mold and mildew resistant).

We are looking at an 8x10 rear deck and 4x6 front steps with railings and front posts. Does this sound excessive pricing? Anyone have this stuff installed at their house?
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Sounds insane for the size, but materials make a huge difference. You could save a lot of money by using a good pressure-treated wood and apply a good stain & waterproofing product. Of course that means more maintenance over the life of the deck, so it's a tradeoff.
 
Binky The Doormat said:
See this calculator - seems bend-over and no kiss after pricing.

Maybe even doing your wife first while making you watch ...just to see what you're about to get, along with a load-full of humiliation.
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I changed the zip code to mine in NJ and upgraded the materials from contractor grade to a higher quality (which this stuff is supposed to be) and the prcing seems to fall in line. I hadn't seen a calculator like that one, so I feel a little better.

I should add that I have Otis level skills at home improvement, I just don't have the same wallet by far.

 
Binky The Doormat said:
See this calculator - seems bend-over and no kiss after pricing.

Maybe even doing your wife first while making you watch ...just to see what you're about to get, along with a load-full of humiliation.
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That calculator is almost the opposite of the way it used to be when I was in the business. Was whatever material cost x 3 = labor/material. Labor was always double material, even with Trex/vinyl/etc.... I would've thought it would be even worse in OP's neck of the woods, since he's in NJ.

 
Another thing to consider -- building a deck yourself isn't easy by any means, but it's more time-consuming than actually difficult skills-wise. If you have the tools and a few weekends to spare, you can save thousands.

 
McGarnicle said:
Another thing to consider -- building a deck yourself isn't easy by any means, but it's more time-consuming than actually difficult skills-wise. If you have the tools and a few weekends to spare, you can save thousands.
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I am overwhelmed at putting up a couple of premade fence panels and hanging a gate to enter my backyard. I do not have the skills or mentality to do this myself. The thought of just doing the demo of my front and back steps, not to mention the current lousy concrete and brick patio gives me the shakes. I am jealous of people who can do this stuff, but I would be pricing divorce lawyers if I tried this one by myself.

 
The Big Guy said:
McGarnicle said:
Another thing to consider -- building a deck yourself isn't easy by any means, but it's more time-consuming than actually difficult skills-wise. If you have the tools and a few weekends to spare, you can save thousands.
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I am overwhelmed at putting up a couple of premade fence panels and hanging a gate to enter my backyard. I do not have the skills or mentality to do this myself. The thought of just doing the demo of my front and back steps, not to mention the current lousy concrete and brick patio gives me the shakes. I am jealous of people who can do this stuff, but I would be pricing divorce lawyers if I tried this one by myself.
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Nothing wrong with that at all. If it's something you'd consider getting more comfortable with, get a feel for the crew and ask if you could participate in a small way. Be their gofer and ask a lot of questions. It's fun to watch and you can take pics along the way which you'll enjoy showing after its all done.
 
moleculo said:
8x10 sounds to me like it's so small it's hardly worth doing.
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especially for 8500. I did ours for ~2500 and it's 24 wide and varying length depending on the distance to the pool. 14' on one side, 11' on the other and 8' in the middle. It's ~400-450sq ft total.

 
Hawks64 said:
moleculo said:
8x10 sounds to me like it's so small it's hardly worth doing.
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especially for 8500. I did ours for ~2500 and it's 24 wide and varying length depending on the distance to the pool. 14' on one side, 11' on the other and 8' in the middle. It's ~400-450sq ft total.
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I am not looking for a massive deck. I am doing this as a different way of just replacing my back steps which are shot. That price also includes doing my front steps and front platform too, but that is just a 4x3 platform and three steps with 2 columns holding up the overhang in front of my front door. The back deck will be enough for our BBQ and a couple of chairs for us to hang out on. Not looking to entertain with it or have my patio set up on it.

 
The Big Guy said:
Hawks64 said:
moleculo said:
8x10 sounds to me like it's so small it's hardly worth doing.
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especially for 8500. I did ours for ~2500 and it's 24 wide and varying length depending on the distance to the pool. 14' on one side, 11' on the other and 8' in the middle. It's ~400-450sq ft total.
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I am not looking for a massive deck. I am doing this as a different way of just replacing my back steps which are shot. That price also includes doing my front steps and front platform too, but that is just a 4x3 platform and three steps with 2 columns holding up the overhang in front of my front door. The back deck will be enough for our BBQ and a couple of chairs for us to hang out on. Not looking to entertain with it or have my patio set up on it.
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Point is 8500 is insane IMO. I didn't use high end composite but I did use composite on a much larger deck and the cost was almost 4x less.

 
shuke said:
I'd triple the size and get 3-5 quotes.
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I would love to do that with the small exception of yard size that I have to deal with. Weirdly getting quotes has not been easy, it seems like everyone is too busy or doesn't do the front of the house with rails and posts like we need. I am trying to get a couple of more quotes, since I am not really sure what I want to do.

I do know that composite is going to be the way I go, there is zero chance that I maintain a real wood deck.

 
Going down this road at the moment myself.  Been fighting between composite and wood.  Already have 2 quotes, 1 more on the way and 2 more scheduled next week.

I'm pretty handy (finished basement in our old house, built a pergola with a daybed swing), so I'm really leaning towards doing this myself.  Especially considering the cost of the size of deck I want (25x20).

Maybe I just don't have the same mentality as some of you guys.  I've pressure washed and stained decks many times.  It's not as bad as a lot seem to think.  Especially when it's a beautiful day outside and you have a cooler of beer.  Knocking all of the dirt/weathered junk off a deck with a pressure washer is even therapeutic. 

Women, all of you.

 
Staining the deck floor is simple and quick.  I find the railings to take awhile.   Luckily, those don't need as much maintenance.

 
We used ipe wood (Brazilian hardwood, and yes, it's ipe) and are very happy.  Although it's quite a bit more expensive, it will last far longer than softer woods.  It's also more difficult to work with (specialized tools) so DIYs will want to take that into consideration.

 
NutterButter said:
Staining the deck floor is simple and quick.  I find the railings to take awhile.   Luckily, those don't need as much maintenance.
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Fair point.

And probably a good reason why I'm ok with going wood as we're gonna do composite railings/balusters, but a wood floor.

 
Looking into this myself.  I have a two tiered deck on the back of the house (looks similar to that picture, but the bottom level is another deck, not a patio)- each tier is 16 feet deep (with the last 2 feet cantilevered), by 32 feet wide - making each tier just over 500 sq ft.  Getting a quote tonight to tear out top deck and replace with a composite (recommendations welcome in that regard), as well as installing a water barrier under that new deck so that no rain falls onto the lower deck - where I'll install a beadboard ceiling with 6 or 8 can lights and a pair of ceiling fans (and eventually a projector and screen, but don't tell the wife).  Fully expecting this to be in the $15k range.

 
matttyl said:
Looking into this myself.  I have a two tiered deck on the back of the house (looks similar to that picture, but the bottom level is another deck, not a patio)- each tier is 16 feet deep (with the last 2 feet cantilevered), by 32 feet wide - making each tier just over 500 sq ft.  Getting a quote tonight to tear out top deck and replace with a composite (recommendations welcome in that regard), as well as installing a water barrier under that new deck so that no rain falls onto the lower deck - where I'll install a beadboard ceiling with 6 or 8 can lights and a pair of ceiling fans (and eventually a projector and screen, but don't tell the wife).  Fully expecting this to be in the $15k range.
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Dayton huh?  I'm in Liberty Township.

$15K sounds about $8-10K light for composite in this area for 500 sq ft.

 
Dayton?  I don't live in Dayton.  I'm in Virginia, and will have a buddy of mine who's a contractor (and can get good pricing on materials and will cut me a deal on labor) will do the work.

 
When you get more quotes have them break down demolition and removing the concrete. 

Then break down materials and labor for the rebuild. Since we don't know what the demo entails it's hard to compare. 

Seems crazy high to me. Referral from Otis?

 
I used mahogany for my deck.  The deck is 20' wide and it was less expensive getting mahogany than 24' lengths of PT.

I have never stained the deck and just pressure wash it every few years.  Looks just like new.

Used trek for the rails. 

Make sure you get your building permits!

 
chet said:
We used ipe wood (Brazilian hardwood, and yes, it's ipe) and are very happy.  Although it's quite a bit more expensive, it will last far longer than softer woods.  It's also more difficult to work with (specialized tools) so DIYs will want to take that into consideration.
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I'm a 9-5er. I used pressure treated pine.

 
doowain said:
Going down this road at the moment myself.  Been fighting between composite and wood.  Already have 2 quotes, 1 more on the way and 2 more scheduled next week.

I'm pretty handy (finished basement in our old house, built a pergola with a daybed swing), so I'm really leaning towards doing this myself.  Especially considering the cost of the size of deck I want (25x20).

Maybe I just don't have the same mentality as some of you guys.  I've pressure washed and stained decks many times.  It's not as bad as a lot seem to think.  Especially when it's a beautiful day outside and you have a cooler of beer.  Knocking all of the dirt/weathered junk off a deck with a pressure washer is even therapeutic. 

Women, all of you.
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It's really not that hard, and very satisfying. I built mine 13 years ago, and it still looks great.  

Rent an auger for the footing holes if you are going that way. Saves a ton of work. Or are you doing the floating deck thing?    

 
jwb said:
It's really not that hard, and very satisfying. I built mine 13 years ago, and it still looks great.  

Rent an auger for the footing holes if you are going that way. Saves a ton of work. Or are you doing the floating deck thing?    
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Absolutely.  I could afford to pay someone to do it, but the satisfaction every time I step on the deck (and it doesn't crumble beneath my feet) is a big part of my reasoning for doing it myself.

Definitely an auger.  The drop from our back patio door to the grade is 5.5-6 feet.

Hell, when I did the pergola I wish I'd have rented an auger for those 4 posts.  My post hole diggers are retired (forever I hope).

 
chet said:
We used ipe wood (Brazilian hardwood, and yes, it's ipe) and are very happy.  Although it's quite a bit more expensive, it will last far longer than softer woods.  It's also more difficult to work with (specialized tools) so DIYs will want to take that into consideration.
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ipe is great- much harder/denser so better for outdoor use and is also pretty fire resistant. looks great too. not cheap. good point about the needing the right blades and drill bits.

 
doowain said:
Absolutely.  I could afford to pay someone to do it, but the satisfaction every time I step on the deck (and it doesn't crumble beneath my feet) is a big part of my reasoning for doing it myself.

Definitely an auger.  The drop from our back patio door to the grade is 5.5-6 feet.

Hell, when I did the pergola I wish I'd have rented an auger for those 4 posts.  My post hole diggers are retired (forever I hope).
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i built mine last summer. Was fine building it and looking forward to it, about halfway through it wasn't as fun. a few things:

1. check the local guidelines and get a permit. i have no idea how it works in other places, but i live in a large city (Philly). i am currently getting bent over by the corrupt L&I and it is going on for over a year. 

2. and i dug my footers too. an auger makes it easier, but i know in Philly most of the utilities are required to buried underground. with a shovel and a post hole digger you won't hit anything but with an auger it could get crazy

3. sounds like the OP is committed to paying a contractor. depends on your yard, but an 8x10 is probably too small. i would suggest if you do get your money worth on little things, like get a chevron design or something. the wife wanted a chevron design and the design was more of a pain in the ### then the rest of the deck

 
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I re-built my deck this time last year.  I posted a bunch of pictures in the homeowner projects thread (too lazy to find a link)

I went with Trex.  It was really a no-brainer for me as I was doing it myself, and really didn't want to have to do much to maintain it.  My deck was 14x20, and now it's 25 x 20 with some cool angles, lights, etc.  Regarding the decision to go Trex/composite vs. regular wood, the only thing I'd say is that if you're not comfortable with angles, miter cuts, etc, don't go composite.  Having to picture-frame the end cuts on a composite deck takes a lot of time.  If I went wood, I'd have been done about 30% faster.

With that said, I have a deck that should last longer than I'm in the house, and looks fantastic, so me, personally, I'd do it again. 

As for cost, I tore my old deck out and literally started from scratch.  All-in, for necessary tools, materials, and equipment rental, I think I was right around $15,000, and I went with the Trex top-of-the-line transcends material. 

My basic tips for anyone considering it:

  • Make a detailed plan so you know what you're getting into.  It can be more complicated than it seems, especially if you're doing a non-square deck, or patterns with the decking material.
  • Cut long and trim to fit, and make your longest cuts first, so if you do screw them up, you can re-use the board for a shorter piece later.
  • RENT HEAVY EQUIPMENT.  It's worth it.  I rented an 18" auger for the footers, and also a stand-up Bobcat for moving 7 yards of 4" river rock.  I would've spent months doing that by hand, and probably would have hurt myself.
  • Don't be afraid to spend some money for the right tools.  I spent $100 for a "duck-billed deck ripper" to tear up my old deck.  Sure I could've done it with a crowbar, but I did it in about 3 hours with that tool, then sold it for $80.  I also bought a Bostitch Positive Placement nailer for nailing in Simpson Strong-tie straps.  Saved me an infinite amount of time vs. hand-nailing.  I bought it used.  If anyone is interested in it, I still have it and would gladly sell it to somebody. 
 
Thanks for the insight FN.  I'll be doing something similar myself in the next few weeks.  Looks like we're also going to do the Trex transcend (either "Havana Gold" or "Spiced Rum").  Deck is 32' wide by 16' deep - but we're leaving all the beams, joints and posts - only replacing the decking boards (putting a waterproof membrane down under it so that the lower deck remains dry) and also (unfortunately, as I didn't foresee this with it's additional cost) the entirety of the railings. 

Current railings are attached "outside" of the rim/edge joists and to meet code they need to be placed inside - which means either moving the current wood ones are buying new composite or vinyl ones (we're doing the later).  What did you go with for your railing system - Trex or some other company?  We're looking at a company called "Fairway", but have also looked at the basic Trex stuff.  Also, what color decking did you go with, and are you happy with it?

 
i may have missed this, but is the deck attached to house?  raised? need large 4x4s or 6x6s augered?

you are paying all labour on these projects, the smaller the job, the higher, like 3 or 4 Times materials. 

is it a spot where you can do ground level pavers?  pallets come 120 sq ft i think, better than your 80 and it requires much less labour.  8x10 is a grill deck.  not worth 8-9k with stairs.

have you called carpenters instead of contractors?

 
Who are the best types of people to call for a job like this.  I'm looking to do a rather large raised deck with stairs that will be connected to my house.

 
matttyl said:
Thanks for the insight FN.  I'll be doing something similar myself in the next few weeks.  Looks like we're also going to do the Trex transcend (either "Havana Gold" or "Spiced Rum").  Deck is 32' wide by 16' deep - but we're leaving all the beams, joints and posts - only replacing the decking boards (putting a waterproof membrane down under it so that the lower deck remains dry) and also (unfortunately, as I didn't foresee this with it's additional cost) the entirety of the railings. 

Current railings are attached "outside" of the rim/edge joists and to meet code they need to be placed inside - which means either moving the current wood ones are buying new composite or vinyl ones (we're doing the later).  What did you go with for your railing system - Trex or some other company?  We're looking at a company called "Fairway", but have also looked at the basic Trex stuff.  Also, what color decking did you go with, and are you happy with it?
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Album with pictures

We went with Trex Tiki Torch for the inner, then did a 5-board wide Fire Pit colored picture frame border.  I was originally going to do Tiki Torch inside with Spiced Rum around the border, but I wanted to use the Trex Transcend railings, and they only came in certain colors.  My wife is super matchy-matchy, so we switched to the Fire Pit.  The Spiced Rum has a much nicer wood grain though.  It may have still worked, but we're very happy with the result with Fire Pit too.  Most of the Transcends colors are really nice.  Not sure if you're looking at going with the grooved boards or some other fastening method.  I used the grooved boards and they worked well.

Regarding the railings - I went Trex Transcend.  My old deck had the railings outside too...I ended up starting from scratch, but you can probably move it inside without too much issue.  Railing code in most places is that it must be able to withstand 200 lbs of lateral force at the top of the rail.  Most inspectors will just measure to make sure they're 6' or less apart, and firm.  I have a section that is about 7', but my posts are WAY over supported because I knew he'd give me a hard time, so they're not moving.  Most are double or triple-blocked, with tension ties and 1/2 threaded rod through at least 2 joists.  Basically, they're not moving. 

Overall, I liked the Transcend railing.  It can be a bit tricky to work with and cut, especially if you need to do birds-mouth cuts for angles.  I highly recommend a Diablo Trex blade for your saw(s), and an oscillating tool to cut the little trim inserts as they're really brittle.  I had a few literally shatter in my miter before I switched to the oscillator.  You can buy Trex railing online and have it shipped from two big online deck stores, decksdirect.com and thedeckstoreonline.com.  I ordered several things from both and had positive experiences. 

Some other money saving tips and points I'm remembering now:

  • Don't just rely on Lowes/Home Depot.  My best pricing on the Trex came from a local lumber yard, and the railing were cheapest online.
  • I got all my joist hangers, etc. from online stores too, at about 2/3 the Home Depot price.
  • If you go with the Trex grooved boards, be sure you have a router as you'll want to router the end-cuts and put a T-clip there too.  Transcends are known to lift up if not properly secured at the ends.  No need to buy the Trex-branded mounting stuff though.  I bought a basic Slot cutter bit at Home Depot to extend the groove onto the edges, and bought the Home Depot TXB fasteners for a lot less than the trex ones.  They worked great. 
  • I also LOVE the Cap-Tor decking screws if you need to screw a board straight in without the hidden fasteners.  I needed some for my edge board, and my stairs.  I just pre-drilled a small pilot hole, and the screws did the rest.  They drive fast, hold strong, and are color-matched great.  They also have reverse-threading that prevents mushrooming.
  • Your deck is 32' wide...The longest Trex decking is 20' long, so be sure you plan your decking lay to deal with the seam.  You may need to cross-block or add some more blocking to your joists to accommodate where the boards will end. 


I'm sure I'll think of more stuff.  Let me know if you have more questions.  I have a full bill of materials of everything I bought if you're looking for rough prices.

 
Yes, grooved for the hidden fasteners.  Your deck looks great, love the picture framing you did.  Ours is perfectly rectangular, though, so we won't have all the angle cuts you did.  We will, though, have a "trex rain escape" system, which will only add to the install time - but will allow me to install a ceiling down below - with can lights and a pair of ceiling fans - and I'm wiring for speakers and TV or projector system.  Should be pretty sweet.

Thanks for the money saving tips - I've looked at both of the online places you mentioned.  I'll see if I can use their quoted prices and get the local HD or Lowes to match it. 

As for the width of the deck - you're right.  My thought at this point is for the first row to be a pair of 16's.  The next row will start with an 8', then a 16' in the middle, then an 8' for the remainder.  Current joints will allow it, which will help greatly.  This way we won't have one solid seam right down the middle of the deck.

 
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Fat Nick said:
  • If you go with the Trex grooved boards, be sure you have a router as you'll want to router the end-cuts and put a T-clip there too.  Transcends are known to lift up if not properly secured at the ends.  No need to buy the Trex-branded mounting stuff though.  I bought a basic Slot cutter bit at Home Depot to extend the groove onto the edges, and bought the Home Depot TXB fasteners for a lot less than the trex ones.  They worked great. 
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Just looked at those fasteners, and they seem to be about the same cost each as the trex.  Trex is 90 for $28 (31 cents each) and the TXB is 500 for $144 (29 cents each).  What's the spacing/gap between boards on your deck?  Standard 1/4"?

 
matttyl said:
Yes, grooved for the hidden fasteners.  Your deck looks great, love the picture framing you did.  Ours is perfectly rectangular, though, so we won't have all the angle cuts you did.  We will, though, have a "trex rain escape" system, which will only add to the install time - but will allow me to install a ceiling down below - with can lights and a pair of ceiling fans - and I'm wiring for speakers and TV or projector system.  Should be pretty sweet.

Thanks for the money saving tips - I've looked at both of the online places you mentioned.  I'll see if I can use their quoted prices and get the local HD or Lowes to match it. 

As for the width of the deck - you're right.  My thought at this point is for the first row to be a pair of 16's.  The next row will start with an 8', then a 16' in the middle, then an 8' for the remainder.  Current joints will allow it, which will help greatly.  This way we won't have one solid seam right down the middle of the deck.
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matttyl said:
Just looked at those fasteners, and they seem to be about the same cost each as the trex.  Trex is 90 for $28 (31 cents each) and the TXB is 500 for $144 (29 cents each).  What's the spacing/gap between boards on your deck?  Standard 1/4"?
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I wish my deck was high enough to have a space underneath.  That sounds really cool.  Consider low-voltage lighting as an accent.  I did post lights, and also extended my system out into my yard in the back.  It's super easy, and really sets the ambiance for the back yard.  How are you dealing with the end cuts on your deck?  Are you going to picture-frame at all or just raise the fascia board up to cover the end cuts?

Interesting re. the fastener prices.  They were considerably less expensive for me.  I think maybe 20% cheaper.  Could be that Trex prices came down, or maybe I just didn't source as good of a price on the Trex ones.  I used the standard 1/4" spacing.  I think the same brand makes a 5/32" spacer too.  The 1/4 is what Trex recommends, and what they require for their warranty to be valid. It looks like a big space when you first do it, but it doesn't bother me now.  One thing I wish I did was paint the tops of my joists black because you can see them pretty clearly now through the deck gaps.  I guess you've got Rain Escapes going in, so that's not really a concern.

 
Yeah, the Mrs is looking into the deck lighting stuff.  We'll likely do something on the posts, as well as the stairs between deck levels.  I keep hearing the the spacing between boards can be a bit of an eyesore.

 
matttyl said:
Yeah, the Mrs is looking into the deck lighting stuff.  We'll likely do something on the posts, as well as the stairs between deck levels.  I keep hearing the the spacing between boards can be a bit of an eyesore.
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If you're going to do the lighting, I'd highly recommend getting your transformer from VOLT.  Their transformers are built like bricks.  They've got nice stainless steel cases and a lot of features too.  If you go LED, you can run a ton of stuff off even their smallest ones.  I've got 2 of their transformers.  One big one in front that runs all my landscape and path lighting out front, and another small one that runs the deck and the back yard up lighting.  I got the Trex post lights on clearance from one of the online sites.  It was "last year's model connector," so they were like 50% off...I didn't care as I was just going to cut the connector off and solder anyway.  Stair lighting is almost a must.  I almost didn't do the lights on the posts at the bottom of the stairs, but I'm really glad I did.

The spacing looked bad to me at first, when my last frame of reference was wood, but I don't even notice it now.  It's also nice because snow and water, and even small debris clear a lot more easily.

 
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