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****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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2 hours ago, Warhogs said:

Just look at the poll they are doing in this forum now.  That is what I am basing my position on.  No way is just about anyone taking Robinson before Hopkins.  Hopkins went #10 overall.  It looks like Robinson might have a chance to go #14.  He might go more in that 15-18 range.   In reality we can split our differences and Robinson might only be half a round cheaper.

That poll specifically as it relates to Robinson is a bit misleading. He was left off the player listing until after the first 11 spots had been voted on (behind the likes of Freeman and Hilton and others with DLF ADP well below him). My sense is he would have challenged starting at #9 if he hadn't been missed from the poll to begin with. Personally I think consensus on the two is very similar (late 1/early 2). I'd be very surprised to see Robinson slip to mid 2 on average or even be a half round off from Hopkins who went at #10.5 (tied with 1.1).

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33 minutes ago, jeaton6 said:

That poll specifically as it relates to Robinson is a bit misleading. He was left off the player listing until after the first 11 spots had been voted on (behind the likes of Freeman and Hilton and others with DLF ADP well below him). My sense is he would have challenged starting at #9 if he hadn't been missed from the poll to begin with. Personally I think consensus on the two is very similar (late 1/early 2). I'd be very surprised to see Robinson slip to mid 2 on average or even be a half round off from Hopkins who went at #10.5 (tied with 1.1).

Players get added to the poll as people ask for them because they want to vote for them.   Robinson wasn't in the poll because no one was considering him yet, not vice versa. 

Just about everywhere I've seen Hopkins has considerably higher value than Robinson. Even right here in this thread where Hopkins has pulled in more in trades. 

Personally I prefer Hopkins because I think he's probably a solid but not great wr long term, whereas I fear that Robinson is more a Braylon Edwards type who is simply a bust long term. But both guys have mediocre career per target stats well behind most of the truly elite WRs that they were being valued alongside a year ago. 

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2 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Players get added to the poll as people ask for them because they want to vote for them.   Robinson wasn't in the poll because no one was considering him yet, not vice versa. 

Just about everywhere I've seen Hopkins has considerably higher value than Robinson. Even right here in this thread where Hopkins has pulled in more in trades. 

Personally I prefer Hopkins because I think he's probably a solid but not great wr long term, whereas I fear that Robinson is more a Braylon Edwards type who is simply a bust long term. But both guys have mediocre career per target stats well behind most of the truly elite WRs that they were being valued alongside a year ago. 

I don't agree. It was pretty clearly an oversight that he wasn't listed sooner. Sometimes people just forget about players. It happens all the time when guys here are doing their top 20 lists. He's is likely going to win #14.The fact that he was 2nd at #13 and 3rd when he was first added at #12 (over other guys who had been listed on the poll for a while) and listed at the bottom of the listing  tells me he should have been listed sooner. 

I haven't seen many trades where Hopkins is pulling in considerably more value than Robinson.

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1 hour ago, jeaton6 said:

I don't agree. It was pretty clearly an oversight that he wasn't listed sooner. Sometimes people just forget about players. It happens all the time when guys here are doing their top 20 lists. He's is likely going to win #14.The fact that he was 2nd at #13 and 3rd when he was first added at #12 (over other guys who had been listed on the poll for a while) and listed at the bottom of the listing  tells me he should have been listed sooner. 

I haven't seen many trades where Hopkins is pulling in considerably more value than Robinson.

I'm not sure what your point is here.  The original point you were objecting to was that Hopkins went at 10 and Robinson at 14 or later.  Robinson was on the poll at 12 and 13 but didn't win.  Are you contending that if he were an option at 10 he would have won, even though he didn't win at 12 or 13?

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26 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I'm not sure what your point is here.  The original point you were objecting to was that Hopkins went at 10 and Robinson at 14 or later.  Robinson was on the poll at 12 and 13 but didn't win.  Are you contending that if he were an option at 10 he would have won, even though he didn't win at 12 or 13?

Agreed.  When ARob or anyone else was added was irrelevant unless you think he would have won a poll that occurred before he was added.  Note that even now, at poll #14 where he has the top slot on the list and is certainly a familiar name having been in three straight polls, ARob has only a single vote lead over Gronk....who was added after ARob, BTW...   

Also note that the players selected with the first 12 picks were landslide winners over the players remaining afterwards.   

Even after the top 13 players have been eliminated from the competition and AROB has the top slot on the list, he has only currently garnered 13 votes in the current poll with 65 votes have been cast (the exact same number of votes he had last poll, BTW).  Six other players are within 8 votes of him (His lead is 1,3,6, 6, 7 & 8) .

By comparison, NONE of the top 12 players selected ever had a single player currently on the list ever come within 8 votes of them with the exception of Sammy Watkins being only seven votes behind Nuke (10-3) in poll #9 (they finished 4th and 5th in that poll).  

The community has spoken and ARob is exactly where he belongs... in contention for the 14th spot overall (including rookie picks 1.1 and 1.2), and the 12th player taken.

Further, there appears to be a significant tier break after Gurley.

 

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8 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I'm not sure what your point is here.  The original point you were objecting to was that Hopkins went at 10 and Robinson at 14 or later.  Robinson was on the poll at 12 and 13 but didn't win.  Are you contending that if he were an option at 10 he would have won, even though he didn't win at 12 or 13?

I don't know if he would have won. Probably not. But I do contend that the 3 way race would have been a 4 way race and that the gap between the two is negligible.

The point is people would have considered him if his name had been on the list. I disagree with the notion that he wasn't on the list because no one considered him and I don't see 10 vs 14 as a significant value drop even given my assertion that him being left off the list may have impacted his community ranking. 

My original objection was to the half round + difference between the two and the idea that just about no one would take Robinson over Hopkins. I think the assertion is flawed because the data it was based on is flawed and this isn't taking anything away from these polls because they're great. I just happen to believe in this instance Robinson and I guess Gronk may have been short changed a bit.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Brooklyn70 said:

Gave: Davante Adam's and Jamison Crowder 

Received: Sammy Watkins and John Brown.

Watkins is the best player in the deal, but I wouldn't be surprised if Adams and crowder outscore Watkins on their own. Better qbs, better situation. I feel better about it if Tyrod stays, but if they go into next year with cardale jones or a rookie Watkins will be waiting around for his shot at free agency. 

Long story short I'll take Adams/crowder.

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6 hours ago, jeaton6 said:

I don't know if he would have won. Probably not. But I do contend that the 3 way race would have been a 4 way race and that the gap between the two is negligible.

The point is people would have considered him if his name had been on the list. I disagree with the notion that he wasn't on the list because no one considered him and I don't see 10 vs 14 as a significant value drop even given my assertion that him being left off the list may have impacted his community ranking. 

My original objection was to the half round + difference between the two and the idea that just about no one would take Robinson over Hopkins. I think the assertion is flawed because the data it was based on is flawed and this isn't taking anything away from these polls because they're great. I just happen to believe in this instance Robinson and I guess Gronk may have been short changed a bit.

 

 

You are certainly free to do your own polls however you would like.  

On the idea that it would have been a four way race... the three all had 24 or more votes facing each other... Robinson, even after all of them were eliminated from competition/no longer a voting option, only got 17 votes.  

Its simply not even close.

Edited by Brisco54
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8 hours ago, Brisco54 said:

You are certainly free to do your own polls however you would like.  

On the idea that it would have been a four way race... the three all had 24 or more votes facing each other... Robinson, even after all of them were eliminated from competition/no longer a voting option, only got 17 votes.  

Its simply not even close.

Yes I do understand this but there are always inconsistencies from poll to poll as well. For instance in poll 8 Gurley got 16 votes to 1.1 and Hopkins 6 and 4 respectively. Freeman and Hilton received 3 votes each in this poll as well. Then poll 9 Gurley still has16 but 1.1 and Hopkins jump to 11 and 10 and somehow Freeman now only gets 1 and Hilton 0.  So Hopkins picks up some votes due to people shifting votes from an option no longer available and possibly a mix shift in who was voting. How do we account for Hilton and Freeman losing votes and Hopkins/1.1 all of a sudden catching up with Gurley so fast and then in later polls surpassing him?   The overall point in all this is we really don't know what would have happened because from one poll to the next there isn't always a logical explanation of the results. And I contend that a guy who won #14 should have been part of the voting process earlier. Whereas there are 5+ guys who were added several polls ahead of him who are still hanging out there with little/marginal support. It is what it is and like I said the polls are great overall and i appreciate Brisco for doing these. They are very beneficial for the community. Thank you.

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All these polls....dishonest media......Damn fake voters, most of the people voting in that poll are dead or voted twice, once on their phone and once with their laptop. Probably illegally voting from Russia. What kind of name is Brisco anyway? You spell that with  three ohs and two yous?

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I've been offered Paul Perkins RB NYG for draft pick 1.07.

 

Aside from it being very early in putting together a draft list for the upcoming rookie draft, but I would think that getting the 3-4th RB or 3-4th WR in the upcoming draft would be more valuable than Paul Perkins.

 

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8 minutes ago, cdwood said:

I've been offered Paul Perkins RB NYG for draft pick 1.07.

 

Aside from it being very early in putting together a draft list for the upcoming rookie draft, but I would think that getting the 3-4th RB or 3-4th WR in the upcoming draft would be more valuable than Paul Perkins.

 

That is a bad trade for you. If you haven't rejected the trade yet you are moving too slow.

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On 2/17/2017 at 0:18 AM, Brooklyn70 said:

Gave: Davante Adam's and Jamison Crowder 

Received: Sammy Watkins and John Brown.

Adams is no separation QB dependent WR and Crowder is a really good pure slot WR and those usually have limited upside unless it's Welker.

Watkins is the supereme talent in this deal and his injury situation is overblown.

I don't use the "this is not close" carelessly, but to me this is not close on the Watkins side.

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3 hours ago, cdwood said:

I've been offered Paul Perkins RB NYG for draft pick 1.07.

 

Aside from it being very early in putting together a draft list for the upcoming rookie draft, but I would think that getting the 3-4th RB or 3-4th WR in the upcoming draft would be more valuable than Paul Perkins.

 

Yeah, I'd definitely pass on this offer.  Perkins was a 5th round pick and looked okay and may even start this year with Jennings gone.  But I'm not sure he's more than a committee guy. 

However, at 1.07 you will have a pick between McCaffrey/Mixon/Kamara/Foreman, all should be gone by the second round and all have more stud-potential.

 

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4 hours ago, menobrown said:

Adams is no separation QB dependent WR and Crowder is a really good pure slot WR and those usually have limited upside unless it's Welker.

Watkins is the supereme talent in this deal and his injury situation is overblown.

I don't use the "this is not close" carelessly, but to me this is not close on the Watkins side.

So you have to depend on one of the best qbs in the game. Why does that knock Adams? Crowder has put up consistent numbers the last 2 years. I'm on board with the overblown injury prone scare, but if the bills are going back to the well for a qb in a weak qb class then I'm ready to sell. I'm ready to be wrong.

 

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47 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

So you have to depend on one of the best qbs in the game. Why does that knock Adams? Crowder has put up consistent numbers the last 2 years. I'm on board with the overblown injury prone scare, but if the bills are going back to the well for a qb in a weak qb class then I'm ready to sell. I'm ready to be wrong.

 

Because the guy he was traded for is a big enough talent to not depend on a QB. Because QB/WR pairings don't always last as long as we anticipate.

Crowder is a very solid WR3 type, could even be in conversation for best slot WR in the NFL  but I don't think he has as much upside as John Brown and Crowder(and Brown for that matter) might be in QB woe soon themselves but those pieces are not why I strongly favor the Watkins side.

ETA I want to say as of now I'll even have Watkins rated well over Adams next season, even with his QB situation murky.

Edited by menobrown
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17 minutes ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

Yea, um no. I recall Fitz being rendered pretty irrelevant by incompetent QB play back in 2012. 

But in 2010 and 2011 he was just fine with bad quarterback play, Josh Gordon was fine with bad quarterback play, DeAndre Hopkins was great and decent with 2 years of bad quarterback play. It is kind of random. 

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2 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

But in 2010 and 2011 he was just fine with bad quarterback play, Josh Gordon was fine with bad quarterback play, DeAndre Hopkins was great and decent with 2 years of bad quarterback play. It is kind of random. 

Well, to be fair, there is a difference between bad QB play and bad fantasy QB play.

A guy like Tebow?  Bad fantasy QB for WRs.

Guys like Josh Mccown, Hoyer, and some others I can't really think of at the moment..........they are terrible QBs but not necessarily bad FANTASY QBs.  They put up numbers but screw up a lot, which is why they aren't good NFL QBs. 

There are obviously a ton more examples that I don't have time to look up at the moment, but I am not afraid of a bad QB unless they suck at throwing.

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Just now, ghostguy123 said:

Well, to be fair, there is a difference between bad QB play and bad fantasy QB play.

A guy like Tebow?  Bad fantasy QB for WRs.

Guys like Josh Mccown, Hoyer, and some others I can't really think of at the moment..........they are terrible QBs but not necessarily bad FANTASY QBs.  They put up numbers but screw up a lot, which is why they aren't good NFL QBs. 

There are obviously a ton more examples that I don't have time to look up at the moment, but I am not afraid of a bad QB unless they suck at throwing.

That was my point. People look way too much into how poor the quarterback is by NFL standards to judge how it will affect the fantasy prospects of a receiver, especially a number 1 receiver. 

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2 hours ago, Matt's Eagles said:

12 team PPR

Team A gets Jordan Reed, Jarod McKinnion, pick 2.13

Team B gets Keanan Allen, pick 2.8

I'd take Reed here even without McKinnon.  I get the concussion risk, but Allen has his own durability issues.

And the positional advantage of having one of the handful of elite TE producers is something I'm willing to pay for.

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2 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

16 man IDP

Team A gets 1.01, 4.01

Team B gets 1.03, 1.16

 

1.01 for me.

Dropping to 1.02 I'd take it, but there's a pretty decent chance there will be a big dropoff between the top 2 and 1.03 this year.  This year's tier 1 rookie WRs are very mediocre compared to the tier 1 WRs of an average draft class.  This year's tier 1 RBs are well above average.

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20 hours ago, Arodin said:

I'd take Reed here even without McKinnon.  I get the concussion risk, but Allen has his own durability issues.

And the positional advantage of having one of the handful of elite TE producers is something I'm willing to pay for gamble on.

Fixed.

Both guys are risky but I'll stay clear of a chronic concussion case.  We only play one TE so there are always waiver options.  I thing enough guys emerge on a yearly basis (Barnidge, Brate) and there are young options around (or coming into) the league.

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18 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

1.01 for me.

Dropping to 1.02 I'd take it, but there's a pretty decent chance there will be a big dropoff between the top 2 and 1.03 this year.  This year's tier 1 rookie WRs are very mediocre compared to the tier 1 WRs of an average draft class.  This year's tier 1 RBs are well above average.

Me too.

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54 minutes ago, DropKick said:

Fixed.

Both guys are risky but I'll stay clear of a chronic concussion case.  We only play one TE so there are always waiver options.  I thing enough guys emerge on a yearly basis (Barnidge, Brate) and there are young options around (or coming into) the league.

For a couple seasons now, when on the field, Reed has beern closer to Gronk than the rest of that young field has been to Reed.

I dont feel that Allen gives the same differential advantage vs. the next tier of WR.  Admittedly I am lower on Allen than most, but I thnk you are underselling Reed.

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23 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

16 man IDP

Team A gets 1.01, 4.01

Team B gets 1.03, 1.16

 

Having your choice of Davis cook fournette is certainly nice, but to get the 16th pick and take what's left of the 3 is still nice.  Especially in idp where that's a more valuable pick

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1 hour ago, Steed said:

Having your choice of Davis cook fournette is certainly nice, but to get the 16th pick and take what's left of the 3 is still nice.  Especially in idp where that's a more valuable pick

The combine can change things (although it looks like Davis might not participate) but these 3 guys are just not in the same tier.  Davis is at least a tier below, if not another imaginary empty tier below on top of that.

He'll likely be a mid or mid-late 1st round NFL pick.  This isn't a Cooper/Evans/Watkins/AJG/Julio type prospect here.  This is more of a Coleman/Parker/Agholor type prospect who happens to be one of the top 2 WRs this year because there are no Cooper/Evans/Watkins/AJG/Julio type prospects in this year's draft.

I've said it a few times before.  Overall this is a strong draft for many reasons, but that doesn't mean it's a strong draft everywhere.  The top tier WRs are one of those places where it's quite mediocre this year.

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On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 3:05 PM, menobrown said:

Adams is no separation QB dependent WR and Crowder is a really good pure slot WR and those usually have limited upside unless it's Welker.

Watkins is the supereme talent in this deal and his injury situation is overblown.

I don't use the "this is not close" carelessly, but to me this is not close on the Watkins side.

I like Crowder more than most, but totally agree with this. I can's see why a Watkins owner would make that deal.

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  • Gottabesweet changed the title to ****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****

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