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Why would anyone need an assault rifle? (3 Viewers)

Assault Rifles

  • Ban them

    Votes: 309 74.6%

  • They have many uses outside of killing a lot of people in a short amount of time

    Votes: 105 25.4%
  • Total voters
    414
The upside to all this discussion... is that they aren't going anywhere. So let's be honest and call this is a verbal circle jerk for circle jerking's sake. A time waster if you will  :D

 
Chadstroma said:
How many of those mass shootings happen in "gun free zones"? How many firearms are in this country? How many people actually have and do concealed carry?
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I am not arguing for gun free zones.  400M guns which is crazy.  I would like to point out that there are basically no examples of mass shootings stopped by other civilians.  This is a total red hearing solution the NRA has come up with as the pace of these continue to increase.  

 
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Chadstroma said:
How many of those mass shootings happen in "gun free zones"? How many firearms are in this country? How many people actually have and do concealed carry?
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There are approximately 300-350 million firearms  in the U.S. - roughly one for every person in the country.  There are almost 13 million concealed carry permits, though of course that doesn't say how many people actually use them.

But roughly one out of every 25 people in this country, including children, has a concealed carry permit.  About 1/20 adults.

 
Chadstroma said:
I am not racing off. I am asking.... we do what you want- right now. Then what? You do realize that mass murder with guns will continue, right? So, what happens after there is a full "assault" weapon ban and magically we have all 3 million (not sure if that is just AR-15's or all "assault" weapons) are off the streets. What do we do then? We couldn't just not do anything- I mean, that is the rationale now, right? So.... answer me. Then what?
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Serious answer...this seems to work in other countries to actually reduce mass killings. Reduce, not eliminate. But the US dwarfs other countries in gun violence. Why would it "work" elsewhere but not here?

 
Henry Ford said:
There are approximately 300-350 million firearms  in the U.S. - roughly one for every person in the country.  There are almost 13 million concealed carry permits, though of course that doesn't say how many people actually use them.

But roughly one out of every 25 people in this country, including children, has a concealed carry permit.  About 1/20 adults.
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I think the sweet spot is probably 2 guns for every person in the country, that'll prob curb the gun violence. 

 
Redwes25 said:
I am not arguing for gun free zones.  400M guns which is crazy.  I would like to point out that there are basically no examples of mass shootings stopped by other civilians.  This is a total red hearing solution the NRA has come up with as the pace of these continue to increase.  
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Let me point out a couple of things here.

  1. Most mass shootings happen in 'gun free zones'. Places that a legal concealed carry permit would not allow you to carry your weapon into. Which makes it hard for that situation to be stopped by a legal concealed carry permit holder.
  2. It is impossible to know how many mass shootings would have occurred without the intervention of a concealed carry permit holder stopping it. If someone stops a shooting or stops after one shooting- then it is not a mass shooting, correct? Here is a taste of interventions that stopped mass murder http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/ there are more.
  3. There really are not a lot of concealed carry permit holders out there. Even more so in states that have stringent gun laws. More concealed carry permit holders means a higher degree of someone there to be able to stop the bad guy. Much better than hiding in a bathroom and hoping the gunman does not walk in.
 
Chadstroma said:
Let me point out a couple of things here.

  1. Most mass shootings happen in 'gun free zones'. Places that a legal concealed carry permit would not allow you to carry your weapon into. Which makes it hard for that situation to be stopped by a legal concealed carry permit holder.
  2. It is impossible to know how many mass shootings would have occurred without the intervention of a concealed carry permit holder stopping it. If someone stops a shooting or stops after one shooting- then it is not a mass shooting, correct? Here is a taste of interventions that stopped mass murder http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/ there are more.
  3. There really are not a lot of concealed carry permit holders out there. Even more so in states that have stringent gun laws. More concealed carry permit holders means a higher degree of someone there to be able to stop the bad guy. Much better than hiding in a bathroom and hoping the gunman does not walk in.
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If one out of every 20 adults in the U.S. has something, that's a lot.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I think the sweet spot is probably 2 guns for every person in the country, that'll prob curb the gun violence. 
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Damn, even giving me credit to hold the ones due my wife and daughter I still have too many, and that after having divested myself recently of several.  I'm like a gun glutton.  Maybe I need to go on a diet. 

 
Henry Ford said:
I'm sure people are really hoping that concealed carry permits are the answer.

You know, like the shooter had.
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Chadstroma said:
Here is another idea. Let's do what actually makes sense and start encouraging responsible people to enroll in concealed carry classes and actually be able to defend themselves from the .00000000001% of the 319 million people in this country that pose a risk because they are mentally ill or have a terrorist agenda.

Seems more effective than feel good measures that won't have a material impact on anything.
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It took us 13 pages to get to that... Very surprised and impressed with the FFA, solid work that it took that long.

 
Henry Ford said:
There are approximately 300-350 million firearms  in the U.S. - roughly one for every person in the country.  There are almost 13 million concealed carry permits, though of course that doesn't say how many people actually use them.

But roughly one out of every 25 people in this country, including children, has a concealed carry permit.  About 1/20 adults.
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You already hit the answer there that not 1 in 25 actually carry. Even those who normally carry don't carry all the time and certainly not to 'gun free zones'.

 
Henry Ford said:
I'm sure people are really hoping that concealed carry permits are the answer.

You know, like the shooter had.
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The off duty officer who was carrying was the best chance to stop this. He was not able to. What if someone else in that club had a weapon? Certainly many of those 49 lives would have been saved. It is the only rational option. I care about what is effective not what will make some people feel better.

 
For the record, my preference for gun free zones is not for the massacre types - I don't think they are too effected by that - but for the guys like our boy in this thread who seems to be waiting all his life for a chance to play hero.

 
Chadstroma said:
The off duty officer who was carrying was the best chance to stop this. He was not able to. What if someone else in that club had a weapon? Certainly many of those 49 lives would have been saved. It is the only rational option. I care about what is effective not what will make some people feel better.
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Certainly? More guns = rational? Are you not familiar with the gun fatality stats from all the other developed countries in the world?

 
Chadstroma said:
The off duty officer who was carrying was the best chance to stop this. He was not able to. What if someone else in that club had a weapon? Certainly many of those 49 lives would have been saved. It is the only rational option. I care about what is effective not what will make some people feel better.
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So we're safer with millions of people drinking at clubs carrying weapons?  Most of those people probably weren't safe enough to drive home let alone make rational decisions about pulling out a hand gun.

 
Chadstroma said:
The off duty officer who was carrying was the best chance to stop this. He was not able to. What if someone else in that club had a weapon? Certainly many of those 49 lives would have been saved. It is the only rational option. I care about what is effective not what will make some people feel better.
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I find it amazing that someone who lives in Chicago can think more guns is the answer. 

 
Chadstroma said:
You already hit the answer there that not 1 in 25 actually carry. Even those who normally carry don't carry all the time and certainly not to 'gun free zones'.
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I certainly appreciate that people want to end gun free zones.

I am absolutely not comfortable with making it legal to bring guns into bars.  Guns and alcohol - and I know this sounds weird coming from a Louisianimal - should not be mixed.

 
Amused to Death said:
So we're safer with millions of people drinking at clubs carrying weapons?  Most of those people probably weren't safe enough to drive home let alone make rational decisions about pulling out a hand gun.
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That is true. I am not a fan of the drinking and gun thing obviously. But going to a club doesn't mean you drink. Rather than making places gun free zones the more effective thing would be to have punishment for drinking and carrying. Lose the license, fines and hell- even prison time.

 
Refresh my memory, in percentages to total situations, how many active shooter situations have been solved by a CC permit holder (not a law enforcement officer) successfully intervening?

 
RUSF18 said:
I find it amazing that someone who lives in Chicago can think more guns is the answer. 
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You mean someone in the city with some of the strictest gun control laws in the country that did nothing to stop the violence? You crazy to think law abiding citizens with weapons could stop criminals, madmen or terrorists with guns.

 
Chadstroma said:
The off duty officer who was carrying was the best chance to stop this. He was not able to. What if someone else in that club had a weapon? Certainly many of those 49 lives would have been saved. It is the only rational option. I care about what is effective not what will make some people feel better.
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You are essentially trading these hypothetical 49 lives with hundreds to thousands of other deaths caused by guns/alcohol and a typical bar fight scenario.

 
Chadstroma said:
You mean someone in the city with some of the strictest gun control laws in the country that did nothing to stop the violence? You crazy to think law abiding citizens with weapons could stop criminals, madmen or terrorists with guns.
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You have some typos in there or did you just argue my point? 

 
Henry Ford said:
I certainly appreciate that people want to end gun free zones.

I am absolutely not comfortable with making it legal to bring guns into bars.  Guns and alcohol - and I know this sounds weird coming from a Louisianimal - should not be mixed.
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I got ya. I am uncomfortable about it to. And to be honest, bars or places that sell alcohol are the one place I am ok with gun free zones.... more because a law abiding person who otherwise would never endanger someone can do damn dumb things while intoxicated.

My biggest fear from Daesh is a Beslan here in the US. It wouldn't take much to do and it would be devastating.

We can't get rid of the guns. We can't keep them out of criminals, madmen and terrorists hands. Sure, we can make it harder.... and I am ok with a lot of that..... as long as we understand it really is more about feeling good about doing something than it is a real answer.

 
I do miss access to the police range and the armorer.  Staying proficient was easier then, and cheaper.  Now, of course, I really have very little reason to worry about my proficiency.  

 
Amused to Death said:
So we're safer with millions of people drinking at clubs carrying weapons?  Most of those people probably weren't safe enough to drive home let alone make rational decisions about pulling out a hand gun.
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yeah, sound awful to allow concealed weapons in a bar.  Disaster waiting to happen.  Also, in Orlando there was an undercover cop carrying a gun and that did not stop the 49 deaths.  

 
Redwes25 said:
Spider,  legitimate question but where do you keep your guns in your house? 
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I can't speak for Spider, but mine are locked in a gun safe that is bolted to the floor and wall. At night, both glocks are in easy reach of me and my wife. The dogs will alert us to a break-in and then it is self-defense.

 
bueno said:
I can't speak for Spider, but mine are locked in a gun safe that is bolted to the floor and wall. At night, both glocks are in easy reach of me and my wife. The dogs will alert us to a break-in and then it is self-defense.
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So you wake up put in safe in the morning and remove from said safe every night

 
Chadstroma said:
I got ya. I am uncomfortable about it to. And to be honest, bars or places that sell alcohol are the one place I am ok with gun free zones.... more because a law abiding person who otherwise would never endanger someone can do damn dumb things while intoxicated.

My biggest fear from Daesh is a Beslan here in the US. It wouldn't take much to do and it would be devastating.

We can't get rid of the guns. We can't keep them out of criminals, madmen and terrorists hands. Sure, we can make it harder.... and I am ok with a lot of that..... as long as we understand it really is more about feeling good about doing something than it is a real answer.
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I don't agree with this.

I don't think there is any way to stop murder.  I don't think there is any way to stop multiple murder.  I do think there is a way to lower the number of mass killings using firearms in this country.  No, we cannot keep all guns out of the hands of criminals, madmen, and terrorists.  But we can heavily reduce the prevalence of illegal firearms and we can include in the category of illegal firearms the sort of weapons that make it easy for a ####head like this to rampage through a bar killing dozens of people.  Beyond just forcing all weapons manufacturers to manufacture anything with a magazine over 8 rounds solely in neon pink, which would also be nice.

It begins with reduction of illegal guns.  And that begins, in my opinion, with ending the war on marijuana and taking $40 billion a year out of the hands of street dealers.  

 
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Shutout said:
I have friends who are in law enforcement that own their own personal AR-15 and are allowed to use it in the line of duty (although not issued by the department).  The y are highly likely to ever actually use it but they carry it because they simply don't want to respond to a situation where they bring a knife to a gun fight.  Just another example of deterrence. 

You break into my house and I'm holding a kitchen knife, you may not be too intimidated.  You break into my house and see me holding an AR-15 and saying "Come on in, bub". it wouldn't matter if I was wearing a short, fuzzy pink terry-cloth bath robe...chances are you're leaving real quick.  Owning any weapon doesn't equate to using it so I have a hard time buying the idea of legislating intelligence. 
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Where is this? Ammo as well?

 
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Ditkaless Wonders said:
Damn, even giving me credit to hold the ones due my wife and daughter I still have too many, and that after having divested myself recently of several.  I'm like a gun glutton.  Maybe I need to go on a diet. 
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Why? My wife and I have 5. a 12 gauge for bird shot and scaring away bears, a 12 gauge for buckshot and rifled slugs that could stop a bear or moose (it has a pistol grip so it could be used in home defense), two 45 cal glocks for home defense and a lever action 306 for big game. I want to get a 22 long gun for varmints like coyotes, skunks and raccoons. Hardly an arsenal.

 
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Ditkaless Wonders said:
With something like this you can be in and out in a second.  No inconvenience.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/gun-storage/gun-safes|/pc/104792580/c/104730480/sc/104369580/liberty-hd-quick-vault/1929923.uts?destination=%2Fcategory%2FGun-Safes%2F104369580.uts

maybe he keeps such a device in a nightstand by his bed.  Safe from the kids, but easy access if he needs it.
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My kids are all grown up, so that isn't an issue. In the day the safe is unlocked so we can get to the guns if needed. Though sometimes my wife carries hers when I'm not home. Only cam close to using it once, but didn't have to because the dogs made the guy back off.

 
bueno said:
Why? My wife and I have 5. a 12 gauge for bird shot and scaring away bears, a 12 gauge for buckshot and rifled slugs that could stop a bear or moose, two 45 glocks for home defense and a lever action 306 for big game. I want to get a 22 long gun for varmints like coyotes, skunks and raccoons. Hardly an arsenal.
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Well, after divesting myself of some items I still have the following ammunition in my home. 

.22 mag, .40, 10mm, .44.

20 gauge, 12 gauge (obviously various loads for various utilities)

.22LR, .223, .270, 30.06, .338, .444

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Well, after divesting myself of some items I still have the following ammunition in my home. 

.22 mag, .40, 10mm, .44.

20 gauge, 12 gauge (obviously various loads for various utilities)

.22LR, .223, .270, 30.06, .338, .444
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I haven't counted up the ammo. My wife listens to the news sometimes and tells me we need more, but I tell her we can get it off the dead bodies....

 
I really should cull some more stuff.  I will never use the .444 or the .338 again, not at my age.  Also, the 10mm never had utility for me, it was a gift.  The .22 mag will stay a while longer until the original owner passes away.  I will not divest myself of that while he is alive.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I really should cull some more stuff.  I will never use the .444 or the .338 again, not at my age.  Also, the 10mm never had utility for me, it was a gift.  The .22 mag will stay a while longer until the original owner passes away.  I will not divest myself of that while he is alive.
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Point is, every gun I have, I have for a specific reason. I would take any suggestion that I should give one of them up unkindly.

 
bueno said:
I haven't counted up the ammo. My wife listens to the news sometimes and tells me we need more, but I tell her we can get it off the dead bodies....
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Where the #### do you live, Bueno? And are you sure it's the news your wife is watching and not The Walking Dead? 

 
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