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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news


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Im pretty sure San Fran had a time outs left, and if so should have used it prior to the last interception. They wasted 20 + seconds and rushed the play. I was screaming after the completion to Davis call time out! call time out! I felt like 1st and ten with approximately 45 seconds left they needed to settle down and talk it over. Nope interception. Harbaugh blew it.

I think the had all 3 of their TOs left. At least 2. Thought the whole play was rushed.

They had two; Crabtree had stupidly failed to get out of bounds on his earlier reception, forcing them to call timeout.

I do agree that a TO seemed warranted in that situation.

He did get a good 7-8 more yards (and possibly more if he broke a tackle) so it wasn't as terrible a decision as your post makes it out to believe.

He catches the ball at the 36 without a defender behind him. A defender squares up at the 31, where Crabtree could have gone out. He actually got to the 29. So he got two or three more yards and cost them a TO. Bad play.

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says the guy who is on an internet politics forum while the game is on saying he doesnt want to be bothered by political stuff during the game take that to the bank bromigos 

John Chavez‏ @jchavezfbnm 4h4 hours ago Replying to @realDonaldTrump "Thinking NFL players are 'protesting the flag' is like thinking Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation."

I'm quoting you here, but I am not really directing this at you, since I believe you have no ability to take yourself out of your shoes. But for a second, try to imagine being a black person who has g

Overreact much? Yea Kaepernick turned it over in the 4th quarter, but the seahawks only got 3 pts off of turnovers. Kaep had nothing to do with giving up a a 50 yd pass to baldwin, a 46 yd TD run to lynch, a 60+ yard return to baldwin, or a 40yd 4th and 7 TD heave to Kearse, each leading to points.

I'm a little confused at what you're trying to prove with this. The fact that the drive ended with every turnover he made (3 by the way) is on him each time. It prevented any opportunity for them to score points and gave SEA a prime opportunity to capitalize on it. The fact that SEA only scored 3 off those turnovers means that his defense bailed him out on those turnovers. Yeah the Def gave up 2 big plays and didn't play perfect, but they played well enough to win. Kaep had (1) great throw to Boldin for his lone TD pass (and it was a great one) but the rest of the game his passing was inconsistent and never opened up the run game for Gore. Kaep just isn't a very good passer yet which explains his 192 ypg passing this year in the playoffs.

If the metric is "how does the QB fare playing in Seattle", then Drew Brees is terrible too. Seattle is a tough matchup. Kaepernick definitely needs to improve as a passer, but outside of a few HoFers around the league, you can say that about just about everyone.

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Overreact much? Yea Kaepernick turned it over in the 4th quarter, but the seahawks only got 3 pts off of turnovers. Kaep had nothing to do with giving up a a 50 yd pass to baldwin, a 46 yd TD run to lynch, a 60+ yard return to baldwin, or a 40yd 4th and 7 TD heave to Kearse, each leading to points.

I'm a little confused at what you're trying to prove with this. The fact that the drive ended with every turnover he made (3 by the way) is on him each time. It prevented any opportunity for them to score points and gave SEA a prime opportunity to capitalize on it. The fact that SEA only scored 3 off those turnovers means that his defense bailed him out on those turnovers. Yeah the Def gave up 2 big plays and didn't play perfect, but they played well enough to win. Kaep had (1) great throw to Boldin for his lone TD pass (and it was a great one) but the rest of the game his passing was inconsistent and never opened up the run game for Gore. Kaep just isn't a very good passer yet which explains his 192 ypg passing this year in the playoffs.

THe short of it is that I think he played well enough for them to win, whereas you say the defense played well enough to win. Why is it on him to open up the run game for Gore? Wilson struggled pretty bad the entire 1st half but Lynch eventually got going with or without Wilson's help. That element wasn't there for SF. Point is, other phases of the game (special teams, running game) were there for Wilson but not for Kaepernick, yet there is this tendency to compare the 2 performances like apples to apples. When looking at stats let's not forget he was played the #1 and 2 defenses and the other game was in terrible conditions all on the road. The kid is young and definitely no where close to being a finished product as a passer, but a lot of judgement here seems very conclusory and ridiculous.

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Im pretty sure San Fran had a time outs left, and if so should have used it prior to the last interception. They wasted 20 + seconds and rushed the play. I was screaming after the completion to Davis call time out! call time out! I felt like 1st and ten with approximately 45 seconds left they needed to settle down and talk it over. Nope interception. Harbaugh blew it.

I think the had all 3 of their TOs left. At least 2. Thought the whole play was rushed.

They had two; Crabtree had stupidly failed to get out of bounds on his earlier reception, forcing them to call timeout.

I do agree that a TO seemed warranted in that situation.

When you throw to a sorry receiver like Crabtree that is the result you are going to get!

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Kaepernick was the only player on offense that scared me watching that game. Put Smith in there and it isn't close. He's taken his team to the Super Bowl and the nfc championship game his first two years starting, and he's only lost in the playoffs to defenses that no player should hang their head about losing to.

I don't know what you guys want. You've got an amazing young qb. It's hard to win super bowls. You've got as good a shot as anyone next year.

I, for one, would be really happy if Kaepernick got run out of SF.

It seems like it's primarily non SF fans that are anti-Kaep. I don't get how a 49ers fan who watches every game could not be excited about his future.

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Kaepernick was the only player on offense that scared me watching that game. Put Smith in there and it isn't close. He's taken his team to the Super Bowl and the nfc championship game his first two years starting, and he's only lost in the playoffs to defenses that no player should hang their head about losing to.

I don't know what you guys want. You've got an amazing young qb. It's hard to win super bowls. You've got as good a shot as anyone next year.

I, for one, would be really happy if Kaepernick got run out of SF.

It seems like it's primarily non SF fans that are anti-Kaep. I don't get how a 49ers fan who watches every game could not be excited about his future.

You mean other than his poor accuracy and inability to progress beyond his primary read?
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Overreact much? Yea Kaepernick turned it over in the 4th quarter, but the seahawks only got 3 pts off of turnovers. Kaep had nothing to do with giving up a a 50 yd pass to baldwin, a 46 yd TD run to lynch, a 60+ yard return to baldwin, or a 40yd 4th and 7 TD heave to Kearse, each leading to points. He drove them down the field against the best defense in the league in the most hostile road environment in the 3rd quarter putting them up by a TD at the time, and almost did it again at the end of the game. Save for the one long run, he was consistent enough to win the game. The niners were in position at the end to score 20 pts, and that IMO is enough to beat the seahawks given the 49ers defense.

A bit to silly to think that the outcome of the game was decided by one or 2 plays and yet somehow if those plays ended differently that an entire player's career is somehow validated by it. C'mon, I'd like to think we're a bit better than that here.

Wilson notched another 4th quarter comeback in the playoffs.

Kapernick threw two interceptions in the 4th quarter.

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Kaepernick was the only player on offense that scared me watching that game. Put Smith in there and it isn't close. He's taken his team to the Super Bowl and the nfc championship game his first two years starting, and he's only lost in the playoffs to defenses that no player should hang their head about losing to.

I don't know what you guys want. You've got an amazing young qb. It's hard to win super bowls. You've got as good a shot as anyone next year.

I, for one, would be really happy if Kaepernick got run out of SF.

It seems like it's primarily non SF fans that are anti-Kaep. I don't get how a 49ers fan who watches every game could not be excited about his future.

You mean other than his poor accuracy and inability to progress beyond his primary read?

Seriously. I don't hate the 49ers but I think its very valid to question Kapernick at this point.

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People get too caught up in the running. 150 yards passing and three turnovers is awful. Wilson was the better QB and that was the difference in the game.

Wilson had a running game, with Lynch over 100 yards.

Kap had no running game support, with Gore averaging 1ypc.

Wilson was a supporting actor in the Lynch show. JSmith and the pass rush slowed down in the 2nd half when they had to read run first each time. No such threat excited for Kap, and the DL just teed off on him. Kap had to shoulder the load and was the entire offense.

I don't see how any discerning NFL fan could compare the two based on last night's game.

It's actually pretty easy to compare the two as both teams are built similarly. Wilson was actually under a lot more pressure the entire game yet still made better decisions.

Seattle had an effective running game in the second half because they continued to pound the ball even when they couldn't net the yardage in the first. San Francisco probably could have had similar luck had they decided to run their backs instead of their QB.

Wilson was the better regular season QB, the better post-season QB , and the better QB in head-to-head match- ups. He's just better right now. Kap always has next year to catch up though.

Wilson was not significantly better in the post season or the head to head matchups.

In SF, Kaep had more yards than Wilson, the same number of TD/Ints, and of course won the game. There is no way you can say Wilson was significantly better unless you just like Wilson a whole lot and are biased.

In Seattle, where a QB can't call an audible due to crowd noise, Kaep had 283 yards, 1 TD and 2 Int, and Wilson had 215 yards, 1 TD. Wilson is obviously ahead on turnovers, but overall his performance was very Alex Smithian and not significantly better than Kaep's. Without Kaep, the Niners had no offense, period. The Niners are not even in that game without Kaep. Whereas Wilson has the luxury of being mediocre/below average and and just not turn the ball over.

The joke here is how anyone outside of Seattle could have called Wilson the MVP.

Wow, lots of Wilson hate. Would you trade Kaep for Wilson?

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Kaepernick was the only player on offense that scared me watching that game. Put Smith in there and it isn't close. He's taken his team to the Super Bowl and the nfc championship game his first two years starting, and he's only lost in the playoffs to defenses that no player should hang their head about losing to.

I don't know what you guys want. You've got an amazing young qb. It's hard to win super bowls. You've got as good a shot as anyone next year.

I, for one, would be really happy if Kaepernick got run out of SF.

It seems like it's primarily non SF fans that are anti-Kaep. I don't get how a 49ers fan who watches every game could not be excited about his future.

You mean other than his poor accuracy and inability to progress beyond his primary read?

Seriously. I don't hate the 49ers but I think its very valid to question Kapernick at this point.

What, after his first full season as a starter? That's like writing off Rivers after 2006, who had similar numbers to Kaep's 2013 season, less one playoff win.

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Im pretty sure San Fran had a time outs left, and if so should have used it prior to the last interception. They wasted 20 + seconds and rushed the play. I was screaming after the completion to Davis call time out! call time out! I felt like 1st and ten with approximately 45 seconds left they needed to settle down and talk it over. Nope interception. Harbaugh blew it.

I think the had all 3 of their TOs left. At least 2. Thought the whole play was rushed.

They had two; Crabtree had stupidly failed to get out of bounds on his earlier reception, forcing them to call timeout.

I do agree that a TO seemed warranted in that situation.

He did get a good 7-8 more yards (and possibly more if he broke a tackle) so it wasn't as terrible a decision as your post makes it out to believe.

He catches the ball at the 36 without a defender behind him. A defender squares up at the 31, where Crabtree could have gone out. He actually got to the 29. So he got two or three more yards and cost them a TO. Bad play.

I like Crabs, but he is still a #2 WR at best after being more a possession WR with Smith. Put a #2 WR coming off an injury in a passing challenged offense since like forever against one of best CBs in the NFL on the road - you'd have to be an elite QB to pull that off, and even then it may not happen.

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Im pretty sure San Fran had a time outs left, and if so should have used it prior to the last interception. They wasted 20 + seconds and rushed the play. I was screaming after the completion to Davis call time out! call time out! I felt like 1st and ten with approximately 45 seconds left they needed to settle down and talk it over. Nope interception. Harbaugh blew it.

I think the had all 3 of their TOs left. At least 2. Thought the whole play was rushed.

They had two; Crabtree had stupidly failed to get out of bounds on his earlier reception, forcing them to call timeout.

I do agree that a TO seemed warranted in that situation.

He did get a good 7-8 more yards (and possibly more if he broke a tackle) so it wasn't as terrible a decision as your post makes it out to believe.

He catches the ball at the 36 without a defender behind him. A defender squares up at the 31, where Crabtree could have gone out. He actually got to the 29. So he got two or three more yards and cost them a TO. Bad play.

I like Crabs, but he is still a #2 WR at best after being more a possession WR with Smith. Put a #2 WR coming off an injury in a passing challenged offense since like forever against one of best CBs in the NFL on the road - you'd have to be an elite QB to pull that off, and even then it may not happen.

I disagree with the bold. Hes a legit WR1 at this point. Maybe not in 2013 as he came off the injury, but I think we all were pleasantly surprised at how well he performed considering. He should have no problem stepping back into the WR1 role he grew into before the injury, and should only get even better. He and Kaep got back on the same page pretty quickly when he stepped back into the starting role this season, and if Boldin comes back it should be even easier next season (of course, Boldin will take come of his catches)

2012: 85rec, 1105yds, 9tds

In 2012, Kaep took over for Alex as a starter vs Chicago in game 10. With Alex (games 1 thru 8), Crabs had one 100+yd game, with his 2nd highest yardage total being 76. With Kaep the rest of the way (weeks 10 thru 16), he had three 100+yd games, with a 93yd game. Also, with Kaep at QB in weeks 10-16, he had 41 of his 85 receptions (after only hauling in 6 total catches in Kaeps first 2 games as a starter). After that (in games 12-16), he posted catch totals of 7, 9, 7, 4, and 8. With Alex (games 1 thru 8), he posted catch totals of 7, 6, 6, 2, 6, 3, 4, 5 (I threw out the STL game where Alex got hurt...Crab had 5rec for 70yds that game).

So I see no reason why he doesnt grow in 2014 and have close to, if not over, 100 catches on the season, and possibly (hopefully) his highest yardage and TD total yet.

Its the offseason and Im bored, so Im just throwing this out there for the halibut.

Edited by Wingnut
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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

I think thats a little overboard. I dont have a horse in the race and I wouldnt expect 300 and 3 but I also wouldnt expect 3 TO's in the final 3 drives and 91 total passing yards heading into that last drive. I believe the expectations were somewhat in the middle but he fell way below any expectations IMO.

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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

I think thats a little overboard. I dont have a horse in the race and I wouldnt expect 300 and 3 but I also wouldnt expect 3 TO's in the final 3 drives and 91 total passing yards heading into that last drive. I believe the expectations were somewhat in the middle but he fell way below any expectations IMO.

Brees wasn't any better the week before. He had 300 or so yards in the game. Well over 50% of those yards came in the final quarter.

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Kaep has 2 post season losses in 6 games. He's 2 passes away from having a ring and about to compete for a 2nd. Sure the end result is what it is, but last season he got closer to a SB win than Manning, Brees, Brady, and every other QB not named Flacco. This year only Manning and Wilson got farther. So haters can hate all they want - most of them watched Kaep in the playoffs on TV just like their teams QB did.

Edited by Wingnut
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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

I think thats a little overboard. I dont have a horse in the race and I wouldnt expect 300 and 3 but I also wouldnt expect 3 TO's in the final 3 drives and 91 total passing yards heading into that last drive. I believe the expectations were somewhat in the middle but he fell way below any expectations IMO.

Brees wasn't any better the week before. He had 300 or so yards in the game. Well over 50% of those yards came in the final quarter.

I wasn't** attempting to draw a comparison between Brees and Kap. versus Seattle. The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

**EDIT

Edited by Bigboy10182000
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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

I think thats a little overboard. I dont have a horse in the race and I wouldnt expect 300 and 3 but I also wouldnt expect 3 TO's in the final 3 drives and 91 total passing yards heading into that last drive. I believe the expectations were somewhat in the middle but he fell way below any expectations IMO.

Brees wasn't any better the week before. He had 300 or so yards in the game. Well over 50% of those yards came in the final quarter.

I wasn't** attempting to draw a comparison between Brees and Kap. versus Seattle. The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

**EDIT

I don't think anybody is calling Kaep Joe Montana here, but keep stretching the hyperbole.

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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

I think thats a little overboard. I dont have a horse in the race and I wouldnt expect 300 and 3 but I also wouldnt expect 3 TO's in the final 3 drives and 91 total passing yards heading into that last drive. I believe the expectations were somewhat in the middle but he fell way below any expectations IMO.

Brees wasn't any better the week before. He had 300 or so yards in the game. Well over 50% of those yards came in the final quarter.

I wasn't** attempting to draw a comparison between Brees and Kap. versus Seattle. The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

**EDIT

I don't think anybody is calling Kaep Joe Montana here, but keep stretching the hyperbole.

Did you read the same post I did? Where did he say anything about Joe Montana?

However, for arguments sake, what QBs would you compare Kaep to? Past or present.

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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

I think thats a little overboard. I dont have a horse in the race and I wouldnt expect 300 and 3 but I also wouldnt expect 3 TO's in the final 3 drives and 91 total passing yards heading into that last drive. I believe the expectations were somewhat in the middle but he fell way below any expectations IMO.

Brees wasn't any better the week before. He had 300 or so yards in the game. Well over 50% of those yards came in the final quarter.

I wasn't** attempting to draw a comparison between Brees and Kap. versus Seattle. The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

**EDIT

I don't think anybody is calling Kaep Joe Montana here, but keep stretching the hyperbole.

Yeah, because I compared him to Montana....

Wood it have maid better sense if I wroted it in crayons?

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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

I think thats a little overboard. I dont have a horse in the race and I wouldnt expect 300 and 3 but I also wouldnt expect 3 TO's in the final 3 drives and 91 total passing yards heading into that last drive. I believe the expectations were somewhat in the middle but he fell way below any expectations IMO.

Brees wasn't any better the week before. He had 300 or so yards in the game. Well over 50% of those yards came in the final quarter.

I wasn't** attempting to draw a comparison between Brees and Kap. versus Seattle. The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

**EDIT

I don't think anybody is calling Kaep Joe Montana here, but keep stretching the hyperbole.

Did you read the same post I did? Where did he say anything about Joe Montana?

However, for arguments sake, what QBs would you compare Kaep to? Past or present.

The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

Kaep in half a season got to the Super Bowl, and lost. Kaep in his first full season as a starter got the the NFCC game while on the road with a wild card team, and lost.

Now what "standard" is he supposed to be slotted in?

To your second question: after one full season as starter, I'm gonna need a much bigger sample size to compare him to any QB at this point.

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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

I think thats a little overboard. I dont have a horse in the race and I wouldnt expect 300 and 3 but I also wouldnt expect 3 TO's in the final 3 drives and 91 total passing yards heading into that last drive. I believe the expectations were somewhat in the middle but he fell way below any expectations IMO.

Brees wasn't any better the week before. He had 300 or so yards in the game. Well over 50% of those yards came in the final quarter.

I wasn't** attempting to draw a comparison between Brees and Kap. versus Seattle. The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

**EDIT

I don't think anybody is calling Kaep Joe Montana here, but keep stretching the hyperbole.

Yeah, because I compared him to Montana....

Wood it have maid better sense if I wroted it in crayons?

You still wouldn't make any sense with finger paint.

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However, for arguments sake, what QBs would you compare Kaep to? Past or present.

I'd say Falcons Vick is a fair comparison, though Vick was a more elusive runner and Kaep a slightly better passer.

Vick eventually put all the pieces together (albeit for only one season) when he was already past his physical prime. It's not far fetched to think Kaep can at least do the same.

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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

I think thats a little overboard. I dont have a horse in the race and I wouldnt expect 300 and 3 but I also wouldnt expect 3 TO's in the final 3 drives and 91 total passing yards heading into that last drive. I believe the expectations were somewhat in the middle but he fell way below any expectations IMO.

Brees wasn't any better the week before. He had 300 or so yards in the game. Well over 50% of those yards came in the final quarter.

I wasn't** attempting to draw a comparison between Brees and Kap. versus Seattle. The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

**EDIT

I don't think anybody is calling Kaep Joe Montana here, but keep stretching the hyperbole.

Did you read the same post I did? Where did he say anything about Joe Montana?

However, for arguments sake, what QBs would you compare Kaep to? Past or present.

The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

To your second question: after one full season as starter, I'm gonna need a much bigger sample size to compare him to any QB at this point.

I can agree with this. As such, I don't like how some people are considering him a 'great QB' already. I think he's a good fit for the 49ers right now mainly because of his running, but I think his passing ability is also not the 49ers strong point right now and development in that area may be needed for them to win the big one.

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However, for arguments sake, what QBs would you compare Kaep to? Past or present.

I'd say Falcons Vick is a fair comparison, though Vick was a more elusive runner and Kaep a slightly better passer.

Vick eventually put all the pieces together (albeit for only one season) when he was already past his physical prime. It's not far fetched to think Kaep can at least do the same.

Or he could be Randall Cunnigham, but after one full season, that's hard to tell as well.

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It's unfortunate, but a lot of negative perception about Kaepernick has to do with his image (see total punk thread). Again as many have pointed out here, he was playing the leagues best defense in the most difficult venue, what were you guys expecting 300 yds and 3 TDs? When was the last time a QB did that in Seattle?

I think thats a little overboard. I dont have a horse in the race and I wouldnt expect 300 and 3 but I also wouldnt expect 3 TO's in the final 3 drives and 91 total passing yards heading into that last drive. I believe the expectations were somewhat in the middle but he fell way below any expectations IMO.

Brees wasn't any better the week before. He had 300 or so yards in the game. Well over 50% of those yards came in the final quarter.

I wasn't** attempting to draw a comparison between Brees and Kap. versus Seattle. The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

**EDIT

I don't think anybody is calling Kaep Joe Montana here, but keep stretching the hyperbole.

Did you read the same post I did? Where did he say anything about Joe Montana?

However, for arguments sake, what QBs would you compare Kaep to? Past or present.

The point being is that when you're supposed to be a star QB or even a great QB finishing the game with 3 consectutive TO's and having 91 passing yards with minutes left in the game is not up to a majority of peoples standards.

To your second question: after one full season as starter, I'm gonna need a much bigger sample size to compare him to any QB at this point.

I can agree with this. As such, I don't like how some people are considering him a 'great QB' already. I think he's a good fit for the 49ers right now mainly because of his running, but I think his passing ability is also not the 49ers strong point right now and development in that area may be needed for them to win the big one.

I totally agree with you. :thumbup:

Edited by drummer
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One reason I think Kaepernick's passing acumen is a bit slow to develop is that the niners are seldom trailing in games and Harbaugh is generally a pretty conservative coach with the lead. Just not enough reps in hurry up mode or ever really "needing" a score.

Sometimes QB skills develop out of sheer reps and necessity. Some QBs are always trying to milk every second out of the play clock or playing catchup due to a poor defense and IMO some of their effectiveness comes with the experience of being in those situations a lot.

You could argue chicken or the egg here, but I think Harbaugh needs to loosen the reigns on Kaepernick for the sake of his development as a passer. Nobody ever became an elite QB by being a game manager (and no Flacco isn't an elite QB)

ETA: Considering how seldom Kaep has to try to win games by coming from behind, he actually does a pretty good job of it. This is probably the reason why I think the best is yet to come with him.

Edited by chinawildman
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One reason I think Kaepernick's passing acumen is a bit slow to develop is that the niners are seldom trailing in games and Harbaugh is generally a pretty conservative coach with the lead. Just not enough reps in hurry up mode or ever really "needing" a score.

Sometimes QB skills develop out of sheer reps and necessity. Some QBs are always trying to milk every second out of the play clock or playing catchup due to a poor defense and IMO some of their effectiveness comes with the experience of being in those situations a lot.

You could argue chicken or the egg here, but I think Harbaugh needs to loosen the reigns on Kaepernick for the sake of his development as a passer. Nobody ever became an elite QB by being a game manager (and no Flacco isn't an elite QB)

ETA: Considering how seldom Kaep has to try to win games by coming from behind, he actually does a pretty good job of it. This is probably the reason why I think the best is yet to come with him.

One has to figure why expectations are already so high for him. Is it because he plays on a team that's a contender due to having a good defense and consistent coaching? Alex Smith didn't have those expectations with that in 2011. Is it because of his physical attributes? Sure, but that doesn't make him a good QB alone. Is it because he is in a good passing offense? That's a flat no, because the passing offense was weak in 2011 again with Smith as starter.

The reasons why expectations are high for Kaep is what he did in 2012 in a half season and into the post season, what he did against Green Bay in two games, as well as flashes of what he can do during the 2013 season. It's really how reasonable the expectations are given how limited he is right now as well as the still mediocre passing offense. Both the passing offense and Kaep have to step up next season, but that's also on Harbaugh and the coaching staff, as well as the front office. The mediocre to horrid passing offense is a systemic issue that goes way beyond Harbaugh and after Mooch. Yet three years of Harbaugh, and the passing offense still stinks overall but they did go from a passive yet efficient Captain Checkdown to an aggressive gunslinging down field big yardage threat in Kaep. It's the middle ground between that they have to figure out.

Edited by drummer
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One reason I think Kaepernick's passing acumen is a bit slow to develop is that the niners are seldom trailing in games and Harbaugh is generally a pretty conservative coach with the lead. Just not enough reps in hurry up mode or ever really "needing" a score.

Sometimes QB skills develop out of sheer reps and necessity. Some QBs are always trying to milk every second out of the play clock or playing catchup due to a poor defense and IMO some of their effectiveness comes with the experience of being in those situations a lot.

You could argue chicken or the egg here, but I think Harbaugh needs to loosen the reigns on Kaepernick for the sake of his development as a passer. Nobody ever became an elite QB by being a game manager (and no Flacco isn't an elite QB)

ETA: Considering how seldom Kaep has to try to win games by coming from behind, he actually does a pretty good job of it. This is probably the reason why I think the best is yet to come with him.

One has to figure why expectations are already so high for him. Is it because he plays on a team that's a contender due to having a good defense and consistent coaching? Alex Smith didn't have those expectations with that in 2011. Is it because of his physical attributes? Sure, but that doesn't make him a good QB alone. Is it because he is in a good passing offense? That's a flat no, because the passing offense was weak in 2011 again with Smith as starter.

Expectations are high of him because

1) Lots of publicity (both good and bad type) and hype

2) He's on a good team with all the other key parts to win a championship

3) He replaced a good QB after a QB controversy where it wasn't clear who the best option was

I'm not saying Alex Smith was/is a better QB for the 49ers than Kaep, but I do think he's a better passer right now and that they would still be a perennial NFC championship game contender.

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One reason I think Kaepernick's passing acumen is a bit slow to develop is that the niners are seldom trailing in games and Harbaugh is generally a pretty conservative coach with the lead. Just not enough reps in hurry up mode or ever really "needing" a score.

Sometimes QB skills develop out of sheer reps and necessity. Some QBs are always trying to milk every second out of the play clock or playing catchup due to a poor defense and IMO some of their effectiveness comes with the experience of being in those situations a lot.

You could argue chicken or the egg here, but I think Harbaugh needs to loosen the reigns on Kaepernick for the sake of his development as a passer. Nobody ever became an elite QB by being a game manager (and no Flacco isn't an elite QB)

ETA: Considering how seldom Kaep has to try to win games by coming from behind, he actually does a pretty good job of it. This is probably the reason why I think the best is yet to come with him.

One has to figure why expectations are already so high for him. Is it because he plays on a team that's a contender due to having a good defense and consistent coaching? Alex Smith didn't have those expectations with that in 2011. Is it because of his physical attributes? Sure, but that doesn't make him a good QB alone. Is it because he is in a good passing offense? That's a flat no, because the passing offense was weak in 2011 again with Smith as starter.

Expectations are high of him because

1) Lots of publicity (both good and bad type) and hype

2) He's on a good team with all the other key parts to win a championship

3) He replaced a good QB after a QB controversy where it wasn't clear who the best option was

I'm not saying Alex Smith was/is a better QB for the 49ers than Kaep, but I do think he's a better passer right now and that they would still be a perennial NFC championship game contender.

Publicity goes with any athlete who some (see: Ron Jaworski) expect can change the position , like Russell Wilson has as well, who is also on a good team with a great defense. I don't fault an athlete who earns endorsement deals either. That's up to a particular brand investing in a commodity. Kaep's jersey is a big seller, so brands naturally would want to attach Kaep to their products.

Cam Newton and Andrew Luck have high expectations as well, but right now people here are questioning Kaep more than both of them. That's fair enough because of Kaep as a pocket passer, yet Luck threw more INT's in this post season than Kaep did and in fairness to Kaep, he helped take his team further into the post season than both aforementioned QB's. Those who question Kaep for post season INTs should equally question Luck for his. That would make this, well, fair.

..............................................................................................................................................................................

In 2011, David Akers was the leading scorer for the 49ers. Smith had a bunch of donut hole games as far as passing TDs that season. This season with KC, he also had a bunch of donut hole passing TD games. Yet he has Charles as his RB, where he can dump off to for multiple TDs that hardly travel through the air (see: the game against OAK where the ball traveled only 13 yards in the air for multiple scores where Charles did all the rest of the work).

Smith has been in the NFL since 2005, Kaep since 2011. So far the 49ers with Kaep has had Crabs and Davis post better numbers than with Smith. Boldin this season has had one of his best seasons since his days in AZ. Davis posted his best season since 2009 with 13 TDS (which matched this season), but he also caught 3 TDs from Shaun Hill, and a lot of his production came from the 49ers being behind in games.

A key stat which I had posted in the 49er team thread was where the offense was on 3rd down over the past three regular seasons. They have been traditionally poor in that stat over the past decade with Smith. So far, they have improved that quite a bit with Kaep under center. It could be a combination of his legs and the threat of the run with Kaep, but that's a tangible improvement either way.

All this adds up to Kaep being the right choice at QB over Smith.

Edited by drummer
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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game. Most quarterbacks have had more experiences with their 2 minute offense before being put into those situations. Steve couldn't recall any other quarterback thrust into that situation so early in his career.

Most SF fans know he has room to improve and we hope he progresses. I think anyone believing he's a sub-par quarterback just isn't paying attention, or they bought into the kool aid too early, and now they're experiencing the letdown.

There aren't too many quarterbacks I'd rather have looking at the next 4-5 years. I'd limit that list to include Luck, Wilson, Rodgers, and Kaep. I'd even go so far as to leave out Brady and Manning, who I think are at the end of their careers. (Manning before Brady, but Brady not too far after.)

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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game. Most quarterbacks have had more experiences with their 2 minute offense before being put into those situations. Steve couldn't recall any other quarterback thrust into that situation so early in his career.

Most SF fans know he has room to improve and we hope he progresses. I think anyone believing he's a sub-par quarterback just isn't paying attention, or they bought into the kool aid too early, and now they're experiencing the letdown.

There aren't too many quarterbacks I'd rather have looking at the next 4-5 years. I'd limit that list to include Luck, Wilson, Rodgers, and Kaep. I'd even go so far as to leave out Brady and Manning, who I think are at the end of their careers. (Manning before Brady, but Brady not too far after.)

What I want out of QB is one who wants to compete every game, and sometimes that means taking chances. Smith in a recent interview said one of the things he changed since the BOOOOO "WE WANT CARR" game at home was that he stopped taking chances with the ball, and decided to become more efficient with it. What that says to me is that he hit a ceiling, and had to dial it down because he simply was gonna play himself out of the league. He still played too safe with the ball in SF. I think the move to another team was well overdue for Smith, and always thought that BOOOO "WE WANT CARR!" game was always in his head in SF. He played that way too. So it seems that was the case after all.

BTW, if they had a decibel meter on that game, the BOOOOOs would had set a record in the Guinness book. Guys who covered the 49er for years and years said that was the loudest the they ever heard a crowd at the 'Stick. It even shook the glass in the press boxes, lol.

Kaep has took the team down to the wire in HUGE games, and sometimes just mostly doing it himself. That shows competitiveness, and he stands up at the podium and puts the losses on him. Kaep is far from being an even fundamentally sound QB too. The upside with Kaep is huge. But he competes. He wants to make that last play. He wants the ball on the last drive to win it. He's not afraid of being in that situation in a big game. Hell, he challenged Richard Sherman on a game winning play and lost that play after Roman avoiding Sherman all game long. That takes some stones.

Once he "get's it", I think he'll be a fun QB to watch.

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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game. Most quarterbacks have had more experiences with their 2 minute offense before being put into those situations. Steve couldn't recall any other quarterback thrust into that situation so early in his career.

I noted the exact same point about 6 posts up. The fact that he has success in these catch-up situations and hurry up offenses leads me to think the coaching staff should pick up the pace on offense get more aggressive in time management and situational decisions. Sometimes you gotta take the training wheels off and fall down a few times.

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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game.

There are PLENTY of situations where you can point to Kapernick making plays and having a bright future, but its an awful idea for Steve Young to use the end of the Seahawks NFC title game as a Kapernick highlight reel and try to make him out to be a star. He threw two picks in his last two drives. That's terrible. The defense kept them in that game in the end, not Kapernick.

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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game.

There are PLENTY of situations where you can point to Kapernick making plays and having a bright future, but its an awful idea for Steve Young to use the end of the Seahawks NFC title game as a Kapernick highlight reel and try to make him out to be a star. He threw two picks in his last two drives. That's terrible. The defense kept them in that game in the end, not Kapernick.

If you listened to the Steve Young broadcast, he had plenty of criticism of Kaepernick. His point was that it was unfair to blast him because he didn't make those two plays.

And I'd argue that Kaep's 130 yards of rushing helped keep them in the game too. Don't get me wrong, it was amazing the defense held Seattle to 3 points after the two 4th quarter turnovers, but Kaepernick did his part.

Edited by BaBastage
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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game.

There are PLENTY of situations where you can point to Kapernick making plays and having a bright future, but its an awful idea for Steve Young to use the end of the Seahawks NFC title game as a Kapernick highlight reel and try to make him out to be a star. He threw two picks in his last two drives. That's terrible. The defense kept them in that game in the end, not Kapernick.

If you listened to the Steve Young broadcast, he had plenty of criticism of Kaepernick. His point was that it was unfair to blast him because he didn't make those two plays.

And I'd argue that Kaep's 130 yards of rushing helped keep them in the game too. Don't get me wrong, it was amazing the defense held Seattle to 3 points after the two 4th quarter turnovers, but Kaepernick did his part.

I don't see it as unfair at all. Kapernick is trying to reach the pinnacle of his profession. He was closing in on a super bowl appearance. When you are trying to be #1 in your field, everything should be fair game. If not then, when is it fair game?

If Kapernick is some college QB in division 1-AA somewhere, I would cut him a lot of slack. When he is leading his NFL team deep into the playoffs, looking at maybe winning hardware and getting compared to the all-time greats at what he does professionally, I don't cut him any slack.

One of the ways we do separate quarterbacks at the very top is how they perform in the 4th quarter, with everything on the line, with the season on the brink, and little time left. Kapernick threw 2 interceptions in that situation this time. Its very valid to criticize him for that.

Edited by Riversco
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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game.

There are PLENTY of situations where you can point to Kapernick making plays and having a bright future, but its an awful idea for Steve Young to use the end of the Seahawks NFC title game as a Kapernick highlight reel and try to make him out to be a star. He threw two picks in his last two drives. That's terrible. The defense kept them in that game in the end, not Kapernick.

If you listened to the Steve Young broadcast, he had plenty of criticism of Kaepernick. His point was that it was unfair to blast him because he didn't make those two plays.

And I'd argue that Kaep's 130 yards of rushing helped keep them in the game too. Don't get me wrong, it was amazing the defense held Seattle to 3 points after the two 4th quarter turnovers, but Kaepernick did his part.

I don't see it as unfair at all. Kapernick is trying to reach the pinnacle of his profession. He was closing in on a super bowl appearance. When you are trying to be #1 in your field, everything should be fair game. If not then, when is it fair game?

If Kapernick is some college QB in division 1-AA somewhere, I would cut him a lot of slack. When he is leading his NFL team deep into the playoffs, looking at maybe winning hardware and getting compared to the all-time greats at what he does professionally, I don't cut him any slack.

One of the ways we do separate quarterbacks at the very top is how they perform in the 4th quarter, with everything on the line, with the season on the brink, and little time left. Kapernick threw 2 interceptions in that situation this time. Its very valid to criticize him for that.

I don't think anyone disagrees to a point. All we're doing here is putting a QB's very very short career as a starter into context.

Edited by drummer
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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game.

There are PLENTY of situations where you can point to Kapernick making plays and having a bright future, but its an awful idea for Steve Young to use the end of the Seahawks NFC title game as a Kapernick highlight reel and try to make him out to be a star. He threw two picks in his last two drives. That's terrible. The defense kept them in that game in the end, not Kapernick.

And lets also remember, he should have lost the Green Bay game, the guy on Green Bay dropped a walkaway Pick 6 right in his hands on the last drive.

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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game.

There are PLENTY of situations where you can point to Kapernick making plays and having a bright future, but its an awful idea for Steve Young to use the end of the Seahawks NFC title game as a Kapernick highlight reel and try to make him out to be a star. He threw two picks in his last two drives. That's terrible. The defense kept them in that game in the end, not Kapernick.

And lets also remember, he should have lost the Green Bay game, the guy on Green Bay dropped a walkaway Pick 6 right in his hands on the last drive.

Should've could've would've applies to every QB. You can drive yourself nuts if you subjected every QB in the history of the game with just one should've could've would've moment, in a single game. Defenders drop INTs and pick 6's all the time against some of the best QB's in the game.

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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game.

There are PLENTY of situations where you can point to Kapernick making plays and having a bright future, but its an awful idea for Steve Young to use the end of the Seahawks NFC title game as a Kapernick highlight reel and try to make him out to be a star. He threw two picks in his last two drives. That's terrible. The defense kept them in that game in the end, not Kapernick.

If you listened to the Steve Young broadcast, he had plenty of criticism of Kaepernick. His point was that it was unfair to blast him because he didn't make those two plays.

And I'd argue that Kaep's 130 yards of rushing helped keep them in the game too. Don't get me wrong, it was amazing the defense held Seattle to 3 points after the two 4th quarter turnovers, but Kaepernick did his part.

I just listened to the pod cast, and if anyone else is interested, it's the Steve Young show dated 1/22 on this page:

http://www.knbr.com/page.php?page_id=151

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Steve young made an interesting observation on Kaep this week on his KNBR show. Kaepernick took the super bowl down to a 4th quarter drive with time expiring... in his 10th start. And again in the Seahawks' NFC title game.

There are PLENTY of situations where you can point to Kapernick making plays and having a bright future, but its an awful idea for Steve Young to use the end of the Seahawks NFC title game as a Kapernick highlight reel and try to make him out to be a star. He threw two picks in his last two drives. That's terrible. The defense kept them in that game in the end, not Kapernick.

If you listened to the Steve Young broadcast, he had plenty of criticism of Kaepernick. His point was that it was unfair to blast him because he didn't make those two plays.

And I'd argue that Kaep's 130 yards of rushing helped keep them in the game too. Don't get me wrong, it was amazing the defense held Seattle to 3 points after the two 4th quarter turnovers, but Kaepernick did his part.

I don't see it as unfair at all. Kapernick is trying to reach the pinnacle of his profession. He was closing in on a super bowl appearance. When you are trying to be #1 in your field, everything should be fair game. If not then, when is it fair game?

If Kapernick is some college QB in division 1-AA somewhere, I would cut him a lot of slack. When he is leading his NFL team deep into the playoffs, looking at maybe winning hardware and getting compared to the all-time greats at what he does professionally, I don't cut him any slack.

One of the ways we do separate quarterbacks at the very top is how they perform in the 4th quarter, with everything on the line, with the season on the brink, and little time left. Kapernick threw 2 interceptions in that situation this time. Its very valid to criticize him for that.

I don't think anyone disagrees to a point. All we're doing here is putting a QB's very very short career as a starter into context.

All QBs have very short careers and very short sample sizes at this level. No QBs goes to 25 conference championship games. They get 1-2, some like Brady get 5+. And that's all we get to judge them on. Its a tough way to grade them, but they are all in the same boat.

Kapernick may never get that far in his career ever again, even if he becomes the next Steve Young.

Edited by Riversco
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