Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news

[Raider Nation]

They were a legit contender with Alex Smith. They may be a favorite now.

I'm a 49ers fan and i honestly don't think they were a legit contendor with smith.

If Williams could field a punt, they're in the Super Bowl.

[Two Deep]

:popcorn:Vernon Davis - TE - 49ersFollowing Sunday's catch-less Week 12 game, Vernon Davis told reporters that he believes Alex Smith should be the 49ers' starting quarterback.Although Jim Harbaugh made the correct on-field decision to bench Smith for Colin Kaepernick, one of the risks he ran was creating a locker-room divide. "It's difficult, but I think Alex is still the man," said Davis. "In my heart I strongly believe that and you'll know next week. ... I'm sure Alex is still our guy." Kaepernick is still expected to start in Week 13 at St. Louis.Source: NFL.com

The same Vernon Davis who praised the kid the week before when he had 6 catches for 83 yards and a TD. Vernon Davis is all about himself and what they can do for him.

[shadyridr]

They were a legit contender with Alex Smith. They may be a favorite now.

I'm a 49ers fan and i honestly don't think they were a legit contendor with smith.

If Williams could field a punt, they're in the Super Bowl.

Alex Smith was HORRID in that game. Couldnt complete a pass to save his life. What makes you think they wouldve WON that game?

[thehornet]

very pedestrian (real life) performance against the worst pass defense in football.

The Saints defense has been playing much better the last couple of weeks.

they played terribly last night.

[thehornet]

very pedestrian (real life) performance against the worst pass defense in football.

It's customary to stop trolling once you openly admit to fishing and you've filled your boat.

you're going to see real soon that this move (if permanent) is a mistake. Colin Keap is not going to be a very good nfl qb. like I said before, time will tell.I'll stop the negativity in the Kaep thread. I like the kid and cheer for the niners, but I stand by my statement that I think this is a big mistake. Edited November 26, 2012 by thehornet

[Raider Nation]

They were a legit contender with Alex Smith. They may be a favorite now.

I'm a 49ers fan and i honestly don't think they were a legit contendor with smith.

If Williams could field a punt, they're in the Super Bowl.

Alex Smith was HORRID in that game. Couldnt complete a pass to save his life. What makes you think they wouldve WON that game?

He had a higher QB rating than Eli: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320122025

And what was the weather like that day? Conducive to throwing the football?

Tell me how Alex played in the playoff game against the Saints the week before.

[Two Deep]

very pedestrian (real life) performance against the worst pass defense in football.

It's customary to stop trolling once you openly admit to fishing and you've filled your boat.

you're going to see real soon that this move (if permanent) is a mistake. Colin Keap is not going to be a very good nfl qb. like I said before, time will tell.I'll stop the negativity in the Kaep thread. I like the kid and cheer for the niners, but I stand by my statement that I think this is a big mistake.

You my friend are a poor judge of talent. This kid will only improve as time goes by. He is an infant as a NFL QB and is already making throws others can't or are afraid too.

[Leroy Hoard]

Huge ceiling, just what they need to put them over the top.

[thehornet]

very pedestrian (real life) performance against the worst pass defense in football.

It's customary to stop trolling once you openly admit to fishing and you've filled your boat.

you're going to see real soon that this move (if permanent) is a mistake. Colin Keap is not going to be a very good nfl qb. like I said before, time will tell.I'll stop the negativity in the Kaep thread. I like the kid and cheer for the niners, but I stand by my statement that I think this is a big mistake.

You my friend are a poor judge of talent. This kid will only improve as time goes by. He is an infant as a NFL QB and is already making throws others can't or are afraid too.

same thing people were saying about cam newton last year. hows that look? you know nothing about football. I've been reading your holier than thou ( pertaining to Vick) and imbecile posts for over a year now. I don't want to discuss anything with you ever again. Edited November 26, 2012 by thehornet

[Class Dismissed]

When your Super Bowl window is open, you need to bust down that door.

[rockaction]

They were a legit contender with Alex Smith. They may be a favorite now.

I'm a 49ers fan and i honestly don't think they were a legit contendor with smith.

If Williams could field a punt, they're in the Super Bowl.

Alex Smith was HORRID in that game. Couldnt complete a pass to save his life. What makes you think they wouldve WON that game?

He had a higher QB rating than Eli: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320122025

And what was the weather like that day? Conducive to throwing the football?

Tell me how Alex played in the playoff game against the Saints the week before.

IIRC, Smith missed a bunch of key throws and it wasn't the weather keeping Eli from having a great day, it was the sieve of an offensive line against SF's pass rush, which was on him every time he dropped back to throw.

[Raider Nation]

They were a legit contender with Alex Smith. They may be a favorite now.

I'm a 49ers fan and i honestly don't think they were a legit contendor with smith.

If Williams could field a punt, they're in the Super Bowl.

Alex Smith was HORRID in that game. Couldnt complete a pass to save his life. What makes you think they wouldve WON that game?

He had a higher QB rating than Eli: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320122025

And what was the weather like that day? Conducive to throwing the football?

Tell me how Alex played in the playoff game against the Saints the week before.

IIRC, Smith missed a bunch of key throws and it wasn't the weather keeping Eli from having a great day, it was the sieve of an offensive line against SF's pass rush, which was on him every time he dropped back to throw.

It's just frustrating how Smith never gets any respect. Is he Dan Marino? Of course not. But he is nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be. That said, it appears that Colin gives this team another dimension which is going to make them a very tough out in the playoffs.

[rockaction]

They were a legit contender with Alex Smith. They may be a favorite now.

I'm a 49ers fan and i honestly don't think they were a legit contendor with smith.

If Williams could field a punt, they're in the Super Bowl.

Alex Smith was HORRID in that game. Couldnt complete a pass to save his life. What makes you think they wouldve WON that game?

He had a higher QB rating than Eli: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320122025

And what was the weather like that day? Conducive to throwing the football?

Tell me how Alex played in the playoff game against the Saints the week before.

IIRC, Smith missed a bunch of key throws and it wasn't the weather keeping Eli from having a great day, it was the sieve of an offensive line against SF's pass rush, which was on him every time he dropped back to throw.

It's just frustrating how Smith never gets any respect. Is he Dan Marino? Of course not. But he is nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be. That said, it appears that Colin gives this team another dimension which is going to make them a very tough out in the playoffs.

Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, it must be frustrating, especially given how he played against NO and then subsequently has played this year. I was really just remembering parts of that NFC Championship when he missed a few easy throws that might have changed the game. I'd love for Kaepernick to start, but it seems like ideally, he'd have gotten first-team reps all year before this. As it stands now, you're essentially playing with a first-year guy with aspirations for a Super Bowl. That's tough sledding.

[matttyl]

very pedestrian (real life) performance against the worst pass defense in football.

Yep 9.24 YPA is horrible

All I'm saying is you can't make the claim that 20 points is his floor when he just scored that amount against by far the worst defense in the league.

You have to account for game situation. The defense scored 2 TDs. He didn't need to do much. I think even the top shelf QBs (excluding Brady and their love of running up the score) would have had a similar stat line in that situation.

That's my point. With that defense and that running game, he'll never have to do much. That's exactly why a QB like Alex Smith was projected to be a possible Super Bowl winning QB this season (and he may still be). Much like any QB in Seattle with that running game and defense, any QB won't have to do much to be winning games.

[thehornet]

this added dimension is nothing new. it also doesn't work long term. teams figure out how to shut down running qbs. when that ride is over, you basically have a mediocre qb with very little experience and a strong arm. flavor of the week sort of thing...

Edited November 26, 2012 by thehornet

[rockaction]

this added dimension is nothing new. it also doesn't work long term. teams figure out how to shut down running qbs. when that ride is over, you basically have a mediocre q with very little experience and a strong arm. flavor of the week sort of thing...

Tell this to RGIII. Also, Kaepernick isn't even really running too much read-option. He's been straight dropping back for the most part.

[Two Deep]

very pedestrian (real life) performance against the worst pass defense in football.

It's customary to stop trolling once you openly admit to fishing and you've filled your boat.

you're going to see real soon that this move (if permanent) is a mistake. Colin Keap is not going to be a very good nfl qb. like I said before, time will tell.I'll stop the negativity in the Kaep thread. I like the kid and cheer for the niners, but I stand by my statement that I think this is a big mistake.

You my friend are a poor judge of talent. This kid will only improve as time goes by. He is an infant as a NFL QB and is already making throws others can't or are afraid too.

same thing people were saying about cam newton last year. hows that look? you know nothing about football. I've been reading your holier than thou ( pertaining to Vick) and imbecile posts for over a year now. I don't want to discuss anything with you ever again.

I got that right on Vick didn't I. I knew Cam was a scam from day one he is dense and will not learn how to read defenses. Kaepernick is bright 37 wonderlic. He will learn and improve.

[SSOG]

When your Super Bowl window is open, you need to bust down that door.

I love the mixed metaphors. When you find yourself in the bottom of the ninth needing a Hail Mary to win, sometimes it'll be a hole in one and other times it'll just be an airball, but you'll never score a TKO if you just sit around and try to win on penalties.

[Leroy Hoard]

When your Super Bowl window is open, you need to bust down that door.

I love the mixed metaphors. When you find yourself in the bottom of the ninth needing a Hail Mary to win, sometimes it'll be a hole in one and other times it'll just be an airball, but you'll never score a TKO if you just sit around and try to win on penalties.

Exactly.

[Class Dismissed]

I don't get the whole "yeah but saints had the worse D in the league" when he did what he did yesterday, and more, a week ago against one of the best D's in the league.

Look what Alex Smith did against a couple of playoff contenders just prior to his game against the Cardinals, the game that some in the media point to when expressing their dismay at a switch, ASMITH was 18-19 with 3 TD's in that game and his next game against the Rams he was 8-9 with a TD before he got injured. That's the stretch of play the critics bring up when they question how can you bench a QB playing that well.

The answer is in the previous 2 games, games against the NYGiants and the Seahawks.

ASMITH threw 1 TD and 4 interceptions, and failed go over 200 yards. That's what Harbaugh saw and that's the types of teams he knows he will see in the playoffs. Not the Cards or the Rams.

This 49ers team reminds me of the Steelers of the 90's, great D, good O, and a game manager at QB.

As a Steelers fan, I hope they take a leap of faith, a game manager can lead you to the playoffs, and on rare occasions he can win a Super Bowl, but the odds are stacked against it.

Bold move by Harbaugh.

Now, will he stick with it?

Edited November 26, 2012 by Class Dismissed

[shadyridr]

They were a legit contender with Alex Smith. They may be a favorite now.

I'm a 49ers fan and i honestly don't think they were a legit contendor with smith.

If Williams could field a punt, they're in the Super Bowl.

Alex Smith was HORRID in that game. Couldnt complete a pass to save his life. What makes you think they wouldve WON that game?

He had a higher QB rating than Eli: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320122025

And what was the weather like that day? Conducive to throwing the football?

Tell me how Alex played in the playoff game against the Saints the week before.

IIRC, Smith missed a bunch of key throws and it wasn't the weather keeping Eli from having a great day, it was the sieve of an offensive line against SF's pass rush, which was on him every time he dropped back to throw.

It's just frustrating how Smith never gets any respect. Is he Dan Marino? Of course not. But he is nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be. That said, it appears that Colin gives this team another dimension which is going to make them a very tough out in the playoffs.

Im not blasting Smith. Hes been good last year and this year. But hes a game manager. The game vs the Giants last year shouldnt have even come down to the Kyle Williams muffed punts. With the way the 49ers defense played that game (best game Ive ever seen a defense play) the 49ers shouldve won that game fairly comfortably with a competent QB. As it was, Smith threw to WRs for 1 yd. You cant win a Super Bowl in this day and age with a game manager. They may have been a SB contendor with Smith but now they are legit favorites to win it all with Colin IMO. Maybe my wording was slightly off.

[thehornet]

this added dimension is nothing new. it also doesn't work long term. teams figure out how to shut down running qbs. when that ride is over, you basically have a mediocre q with very little experience and a strong arm. flavor of the week sort of thing...

Tell this to RGIII. Also, Kaepernick isn't even really running too much read-option. He's been straight dropping back for the most part.

kaep is no griffin.

the rushing td was a option and the passing td was a blown coverage.

I understand I am going against the grain here. anything I say to put kaep down will get torn to shreds. obviously this situation will not prove itself out overnight. down the line, if and when I am wrong, I'll come back in to take my licks.

[Two Deep]

this added dimension is nothing new. it also doesn't work long term. teams figure out how to shut down running qbs. when that ride is over, you basically have a mediocre q with very little experience and a strong arm. flavor of the week sort of thing...

Tell this to RGIII. Also, Kaepernick isn't even really running too much read-option. He's been straight dropping back for the most part.

kaep is no griffin.

the rushing td was a option and the passing td was a blown coverage.

I understand I am going against the grain here. anything I say to put kaep down will get torn to shreds. obviously this situation will not prove itself out overnight. down the line, if and when I am wrong, I'll come back in to take my licks.

No problem sounds good Alex.

[Time Kibitzer]

Fantasy wise, his floor is about 20 pts but his ceiling isn't much higher due to the 49ers run game and defense.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. In my league (which has mostly standard scoring, but rewards for TDs over 40 yards and such), he just got 20 points playing the last placed defense in the league (and by a good margin, they give up over 40 yards per game more than the 31st ranked defense). If we compare Kaepernick's 20 fantasy points, and 212 passing yards to the other QBs who have faced the Saints this year (in reverse order, and I took out Cassel as I doubt he's rostered in the average league)....Palmer 23 points (312 passing yards)Matt Ryan 40 points (411 passing yards)Mike Vick (yes, that Mike Vick) 23 points (272 passing yards)P Manning 35 points (305 passing yards)Freeman 41 points (420 passing yards)Rivers 29 points (354 passing yards)Rodgers 41 points (319 passing yards)Newton 27 points (253 passing yards)RG3 34 points (320 passing yards in first game in NFL)Kaepernick had the lowest point total, and the lowest passing yardage total, and was 39% and 36% below the average for both. Now I'm not saying he's bad, far from it. I just don't see him as a fantasy starter this season.

This is quite the straw man argument you have here. For starters, Rodgers, Rivers, Freeman, P. Manning, Vick, Matt Ryan, and Palmer all threw the ball 40+ times against the Saints, whereas Kaepernick only threw the ball 25 times, so of course those guys are going to have thrown for more passing yardage. Passing efficiency is infinitely more important than total passing yardage; and Kaepernick's Yards-Per-Attempt against New Orleans ranks above Rodgers, Rivers, Vick, and Palmer. But why are we completely ignoring Kaepernick's performance against the Bears? Not only did he have the most efficient passing game against the Bears this season, but he also had the most fantasy points against that defense despite just 23 pass attempts and 4 rushses (the majority of other QBs playing the Bears had 35+ pass attempts). That puts him ahead of Luck, Rodgers, Bradford, Romo, Stafford, Newton, and Schaub, among others. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the league, far from it; I just don't see how it's reasonable to think Kaepernick will be a poor fantasy starter this season based solely on his performance against the Saints (assuming he will continue to start). Edited November 26, 2012 by Time Kibitzer

[attaché case]

Lmao at the folks saying his performance against the Saints defense wasn't up to par. It was his second NFL start, in a hostile environment against a defense that has been improving since Vilma returned and Vitt took the helm a few weeks ago.

That horrible Saints defense kept the 49er run game pretty much in check until the 4th quarter, which I'm sure was their game plan - shut down Gore and make Kaep beat them. And aside from the INT on that bad snap, he did enough. The time of posession was heavily in favor of the Saints until that 16 play, clock eating drive in the 4th that ended in a field goal. In those situations, its not easy to get in an offensive rhythm when you're on the sidelines for extended periods of time, especially a QB that hasn't had much playing time yet.

The Superdome is a tough place to play with all the noise, and the Saints D gave Kaep a lot more different looks than the Bears defense did a week prior. I expected him to throw 2 INTs, so only throwing one (on a play where his eyes were looking down at the ball on the ground instead of his receivers) was a nice surprise. Of course, he shouldn't have thrown that pass, but mistakes will happen and he will learn as he plays more.

Jimmy Johnson made a good point about Harbaugh making the switch to Kaep - the coaching staff and the players see Kaep every day in practice. They see how he has been progressing and see what he can do on a daily basis. He also mentioned that the Niner coaching staff is one of the best in the league, so while its easy for us to sit here and judge Harbaugh for the decision, he and his staff know quite a bit more than we do about the kid and what he brings to the offense.

Edited November 26, 2012 by attaché case

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

When your Super Bowl window is open, you need to bust down that door.

I love the mixed metaphors. When you find yourself in the bottom of the ninth needing a Hail Mary to win, sometimes it'll be a hole in one and other times it'll just be an airball, but you'll never score a TKO if you just sit around and try to win on penalties.

LOL, nice.Certainly a better sound byte than the Occam's Razor approach of saying that when your Super Bowl window is open, you need to, well, go through that open window.

[Wally Cleaver]

very pedestrian (real life) performance against the worst pass defense in football.

It's customary to stop trolling once you openly admit to fishing and you've filled your boat.

you're going to see real soon that this move (if permanent) is a mistake. Colin Keap is not going to be a very good nfl qb. like I said before, time will tell.I'll stop the negativity in the Kaep thread. I like the kid and cheer for the niners, but I stand by my statement that I think this is a big mistake.

This post is going to be bumped for years! This kid is going to be a superstar, both real and fantasy.

[CurlyDumps]

They were a legit contender with Alex Smith. They may be a favorite now.

I'm a 49ers fan and i honestly don't think they were a legit contendor with smith.

If Williams could field a punt, they're in the Super Bowl.

If their quarterback could have converted one third down, they might have been in the Superbowl, too. It might not be fair to say Alex Smith was bad in that game, but he sure as heck did not make enough plays to help his team win. Which is what a championship-caliber QB absolutely must do. (2000 Ravens being the exception.) That's what we ultimately learned about SF in that NFC championship. Their defense wasn't dominant enough to win with an average-at-best QB. Edited November 26, 2012 by CurlyDumps

[chook]

They were a legit contender with Alex Smith. They may be a favorite now.

I'm a 49ers fan and i honestly don't think they were a legit contendor with smith.

If Williams could field a punt, they're in the Super Bowl.

If their quarterback could have converted one third down, they might have been in the Superbowl, too. It might not be fair to say Alex Smith was bad in that game, but he sure as heck did not make enough plays to help his team win. Which is what a championship-caliber QB absolutely must do. (2000 Ravens being the exception.) That's what we ultimately learned about SF in that NFC championship. Their defense wasn't dominant enough to win with an average-at-best QB.

It may not have been the Championship game, but no 'average-at-best' QB does what Smith did the week prior. He was magnificent.That being said, I was frustrated with his passing against the Giants.

[Shrugs]

this added dimension is nothing new. it also doesn't work long term. teams figure out how to shut down running qbs. when that ride is over, you basically have a mediocre q with very little experience and a strong arm. flavor of the week sort of thing...

Tell this to RGIII. Also, Kaepernick isn't even really running too much read-option. He's been straight dropping back for the most part.

kaep is no griffin.

the rushing td was a option and the passing td was a blown coverage.

I understand I am going against the grain here. anything I say to put kaep down will get torn to shreds. obviously this situation will not prove itself out overnight. down the line, if and when I am wrong, I'll come back in to take my licks.

Kaepernick has not been a running QB. That's what has been most impressive about him. He's used his running ability to move around the pocket, buying time to complete passes that Alex Smith would never be able to make. He wasn't sacked once against the Saints, while Smith definitely would have been. He has an absolute cannon for an arm. The one place where Smith likely holds the advantage is in decision making. However, outside of getting frazzled after the bad snap, Kaepernick has been surprisingly good there. If he can continue to make good decisions, even if not at quite the level Alex would, the dynamic potential he brings to the offense is worth it. He's also the future, and the future might as well start now.

[althepostman]

Colin Keap is not going to be a very good nfl qb.

Regardless of what you think of the decision now how can you say that he doesn't have potential? Have you even watched the games?

[scrumptrulescent]

:popcorn:Vernon Davis - TE - 49ersFollowing Sunday's catch-less Week 12 game, Vernon Davis told reporters that he believes Alex Smith should be the 49ers' starting quarterback.Although Jim Harbaugh made the correct on-field decision to bench Smith for Colin Kaepernick, one of the risks he ran was creating a locker-room divide. "It's difficult, but I think Alex is still the man," said Davis. "In my heart I strongly believe that and you'll know next week. ... I'm sure Alex is still our guy." Kaepernick is still expected to start in Week 13 at St. Louis.Source: NFL.com

V Davis talks too much. This could just be lip service because Alex Smith is the vet and vets stick up for eachother.Kaepernick offers more than Alex does.

[CurlyDumps]

They were a legit contender with Alex Smith. They may be a favorite now.

I'm a 49ers fan and i honestly don't think they were a legit contendor with smith.

If Williams could field a punt, they're in the Super Bowl.

If their quarterback could have converted one third down, they might have been in the Superbowl, too. It might not be fair to say Alex Smith was bad in that game, but he sure as heck did not make enough plays to help his team win. Which is what a championship-caliber QB absolutely must do. (2000 Ravens being the exception.) That's what we ultimately learned about SF in that NFC championship. Their defense wasn't dominant enough to win with an average-at-best QB.

It may not have been the Championship game, but no 'average-at-best' QB does what Smith did the week prior. He was magnificent.That being said, I was frustrated with his passing against the Giants.

So based on your logic, is Chad Henne a great QB because he was magnificent against the Texans a couple weeks ago? You don't anoint a player based on one great performance. That's absurd. Alex Smith has been serviceable in the system Harbaugh has built-- a power, ball-control, run-first offense. Harbaugh did a great job designing an offense that didn't ask Smith to do much, because he can't. Kaepernick gives the offense a downfield threat, a running threat, and can extend plays with his mobility and elusiveness. Kaepernick is also Harbaugh's guy. He didn't spend a 2nd round draft pick on a QB to be Alex Smith's backup. Oh, and why did the Niners try to sign Peyton Manning during the offseason? To back up Alex Smith?

[butcher boy]

You have to account for game situation. The defense scored 2 TDs. He didn't need to do much. I think even the top shelf QBs (excluding Brady and their love of running up the score) would have had a similar stat line in that situation.

This has been my point all along. The QB in the system the Niners have in place doesn't ever need to do much. So why rock the boat with a QB change now instead of waiting for the off-season?

I'll admit it's fun watching Kaep play and am excited for the future of the 49ers offense for a change. But how fun will it be if he struggles once teams catch up to his play just in time for the playoffs? If that happens, the decision to go with Kaep will look like a huge boneheaded move and a waste of a chance to go to the Superbowl.

Bottom line for me is the timing of this change.

[butcher boy]

Also, do not use last year's NFC Championship game as a benchmark here for Smith or any player for that matter. I was at the game and the weather was absolutely horrible. Eli didn't have a great game either considering the Giants threw the ball almost 60 times.

[mr roboto]

You have to account for game situation. The defense scored 2 TDs. He didn't need to do much. I think even the top shelf QBs (excluding Brady and their love of running up the score) would have had a similar stat line in that situation.

This has been my point all along. The QB in the system the Niners have in place doesn't ever need to do much. So why rock the boat with a QB change now instead of waiting for the off-season?

I'll admit it's fun watching Kaep play and am excited for the future of the 49ers offense for a change. But how fun will it be if he struggles once teams catch up to his play just in time for the playoffs? If that happens, the decision to go with Kaep will look like a huge boneheaded move and a waste of a chance to go to the Superbowl.

Bottom line for me is the timing of this change.

I agree here. CK is probably the future, but the present is so good for SF that unless Smith is costing them, I would hesitate to hand it over to Colin this year.

What happens if they win the SB with Smith though? Can you trade or bench a SB winning QB on the heels of the winning season?

[MAC_32]

I am very surprised that people still question the move to go to Kaepernick, he's the now and the future, he opens so much more of the offense for Harbaugh to utilize. Smith is a limited QB, Harbaugh utilized him masterfully, got the absolute most out of him when no one else could get anything. Doesn't mean he's the answer. This is Kaepernick's team, Smith is going to get paid this offseason due to lack of alternatives and help get his next team's front office fired in 3 years.

[SSOG]

This has been my point all along. The QB in the system the Niners have in place doesn't ever need to do much. So why rock the boat with a QB change now instead of waiting for the off-season?

Because you think it makes the team better?

[butcher boy]

What happens if they win the SB with Smith though? Can you trade or bench a SB winning QB on the heels of the winning season?

Good question. I think the most likely case is that if the 49ers win the Superbowl, it'll be because of their defense. In that case you can't say Smith won you the Superbowl and I'd go with Kaep next year.

Because you think it makes the team better?

But the team won't be better if Kaep goes through some growing pains when opposing defenses catch on to his game. Right now, Kaep is the better option, but I worry come playoff time. That's something I haven't seen the Kaep supporters really address. Do you think teams will catch on to Kaep's game? If so, when? How much will it affect him? It's not like Kaep's been lighting up the stat sheet right now. If teams catch on and his stats and game goes down, what does that do to the Niners' chances in the playoffs this year?

[scrumptrulescent]

Because you think it makes the team better?

But the team won't be better if Kaep goes through some growing pains when opposing defenses catch on to his game. Right now, Kaep is the better option, but I worry come playoff time. That's something I haven't seen the Kaep supporters really address. Do you think teams will catch on to Kaep's game? If so, when? How much will it affect him? It's not like Kaep's been lighting up the stat sheet right now. If teams catch on and his stats and game goes down, what does that do to the Niners' chances in the playoffs this year?

I don't get it. Catch up to his game? What are they going to catch up to? You've mentioned this a few times now and I'm not even sure you know what it means.

[butcher boy]

Because you think it makes the team better?

But the team won't be better if Kaep goes through some growing pains when opposing defenses catch on to his game. Right now, Kaep is the better option, but I worry come playoff time. That's something I haven't seen the Kaep supporters really address. Do you think teams will catch on to Kaep's game? If so, when? How much will it affect him? It's not like Kaep's been lighting up the stat sheet right now. If teams catch on and his stats and game goes down, what does that do to the Niners' chances in the playoffs this year?

I don't get it. Catch up to his game? What are they going to catch up to? You've mentioned this a few times now and I'm not even sure you know what it means.

Same thing we saw with Cam Newton and lots of other young QBs. Once enough tape is out there on a player defenses tend to adjust. Truly great players obviously play through it, but others can struggle.

[scrumptrulescent]

Because you think it makes the team better?

But the team won't be better if Kaep goes through some growing pains when opposing defenses catch on to his game. Right now, Kaep is the better option, but I worry come playoff time. That's something I haven't seen the Kaep supporters really address. Do you think teams will catch on to Kaep's game? If so, when? How much will it affect him? It's not like Kaep's been lighting up the stat sheet right now. If teams catch on and his stats and game goes down, what does that do to the Niners' chances in the playoffs this year?

I don't get it. Catch up to his game? What are they going to catch up to? You've mentioned this a few times now and I'm not even sure you know what it means.

Same thing we saw with Cam Newton and lots of other young QBs. Once enough tape is out there on a player defenses tend to adjust. Truly great players obviously play through it, but others can struggle.

I've seen both Cam and Colin play and I don't think their games are similar. And Philadelphia had plenty of game tape on Newton but he still did well last night. If Kaepernick executes Harbaugh's gameplan then the game tape on him doesn't matter.

[saintfool]

I am very surprised that people still question the move to go to Kaepernick, he's the now and the future, he opens so much more of the offense for Harbaugh to utilize. Smith is a limited QB, Harbaugh utilized him masterfully, got the absolute most out of him when no one else could get anything. Doesn't mean he's the answer. This is Kaepernick's team, Smith is going to get paid this offseason due to lack of alternatives and help get his next team's front office fired in 3 years.

to be fair, Smith wasn't getting much help or support from the coaches in the years preceding Harbaugh. people act like he is truly awful or nothing more than a career backup. he's shown that he can be effective even if he isn't the most dynamic playmaker in the game. there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too. Smith will draw interest from a number of teams that need an experienced starting QB. he would do well to avoid those teams and their front offices that are total messes. he's proven to be a decent QB with the right coaching but that might be a luxury in the offseason market.

[mikeb3408]

I have Josh Freeman as my backup for Matt Stafford right now.

Should I drop Freeman and try to pick up Kaepernick?

This is also a keeper league so it might be a good move for next year

[menobrown]

there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too.

I do think Alex Smith among the 32 best QB's in this league so yes there is room for him. By my subjective count, which I'll address below, it's been 12 years since a game manager QB led a team to a SB win. In fact over the last 21 SB winners I'd say only one qualified as what I consider a game manager which of course was Dilfer. Looking at another way out of the last 21 SB winners only 2 of those QB's are not in the HOF or strong bets to make the HOF and those two are Dilfer and Brad Johnson.What is a game manager is of course subjective but with most of these QB's there is little debate. You could debate Brad Johnson but he was strong that year so I'd hesitate to call him a game manager but think it would be fair to label that as a situation were you can win the SB with an average QB. Big Ben's rookie year is really the only other debatable one in my opinion and while he did play most of the year like a game manager his elite talent level was evident and he had a strong game on the road in Denver in the AFC Championship game.49'ers are of course a legitimate SB contender. It's been difficult for the past 20+ years to win a SB with a game manager type and now it's more of a passing league than ever before. Alex Smith should be good enough to land a starting job on an AZ type but he should not be the QB on a SB contending team. Evidence just suggests it's becoming increasingly difficult to win the SB this way.

[Banemorth]

To start Kaep and then go back to Smith just seems like a bad signal to send. You decided to roll the dice with the young guy, the future of your team, and he's winning games. Why would you pull him now? It would be terrible coaching.

[attaché case]

To start Kaep and then go back to Smith just seems like a bad signal to send. You decided to roll the dice with the young guy, the future of your team, and he's winning games. Why would you pull him now? It would be terrible coaching.

Alex wasn't cleared to play until Saturday. Not knowing if he would be cleared nor not during the week, Harbaugh gave Kaep all the 1st team reps in practice. He kind of had to. What if Alex had got those reps and then wasn't cleared to play? I think Kaep was named the starter because Alex's status was up in the air at the time, and once cleared on Saturday Harbaugh knew that if Kaep struggled, Alex could come in. I think we will see Alex starting this week.

[butcher boy]

there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too.

I do think Alex Smith among the 32 best QB's in this league so yes there is room for him.

By my subjective count, which I'll address below, it's been 12 years since a game manager QB led a team to a SB win. In fact over the last 21 SB winners I'd say only one qualified as what I consider a game manager which of course was Dilfer. Looking at another way out of the last 21 SB winners only 2 of those QB's are not in the HOF or strong bets to make the HOF and those two are Dilfer and Brad Johnson.

What is a game manager is of course subjective but with most of these QB's there is little debate. You could debate Brad Johnson but he was strong that year so I'd hesitate to call him a game manager but think it would be fair to label that as a situation were you can win the SB with an average QB. Big Ben's rookie year is really the only other debatable one in my opinion and while he did play most of the year like a game manager his elite talent level was evident and he had a strong game on the road in Denver in the AFC Championship game.

49'ers are of course a legitimate SB contender. It's been difficult for the past 20+ years to win a SB with a game manager type and now it's more of a passing league than ever before. Alex Smith should be good enough to land a starting job on an AZ type but he should not be the QB on a SB contending team. Evidence just suggests it's becoming increasingly difficult to win the SB this way.

In response to the bold, Kaep is not a HOF QB. There would be no debate if we were talking about benching Smith for the likes of Manning or Brady.

The debate is whether you have a better chance to win a Superbowl this year with a game manager who will not make many mistakes and has playoff experience vs. a young QB with higher upside than Smith but is debatable whether or not he can lead a team to the Suprbowl at this point.

[saintfool]

there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too.

I do think Alex Smith among the 32 best QB's in this league so yes there is room for him. By my subjective count, which I'll address below, it's been 12 years since a game manager QB led a team to a SB win. In fact over the last 21 SB winners I'd say only one qualified as what I consider a game manager which of course was Dilfer. Looking at another way out of the last 21 SB winners only 2 of those QB's are not in the HOF or strong bets to make the HOF and those two are Dilfer and Brad Johnson.What is a game manager is of course subjective but with most of these QB's there is little debate. You could debate Brad Johnson but he was strong that year so I'd hesitate to call him a game manager but think it would be fair to label that as a situation were you can win the SB with an average QB. Big Ben's rookie year is really the only other debatable one in my opinion and while he did play most of the year like a game manager his elite talent level was evident and he had a strong game on the road in Denver in the AFC Championship game.49'ers are of course a legitimate SB contender. It's been difficult for the past 20+ years to win a SB with a game manager type and now it's more of a passing league than ever before. Alex Smith should be good enough to land a starting job on an AZ type but he should not be the QB on a SB contending team. Evidence just suggests it's becoming increasingly difficult to win the SB this way.

it's a QB-centered league and has been dominated by a slew of HoF QB's over the past 10-15 years. not every QB gets to the SB or the HoF because of their SB record. Eli, for example, was loathed by the NY fans until he made it to the SB. Eli maybe saved his career with that throw to Tyree. Smith showed his ability to make those kinds of plays with the playoff win against SF. he may never get closer to the SB than that. i think he has more talent than being classified a game manager. players respond to coaching - vernon davis, for example - and smith has shown improvement after years of really poor coaching.

[drummer]

Anybody who thinks Alex Smith is the future is SF hasn't been paying attention to what Harbaugh and Baalke have been doing at the QB position. Even after Smith decided to stick around SF for another year when Harbaugh was named HC, they went after Matt Hasselbeck, then had Andy Dalton on their draft board (who IMO would be starting since the beginning of this season if they had drafted him), traded up to get Kaep after CIN nabbed Dalton, then of course went after Peyton Manning.

If this doesn't tell you anything about Harbaugh and Smith, then again, you aren't paying attention.

In the past 2 games, Kaep has had 10 completions over 20 yards to Smith's 22 over the past nine games with zero sacks. Across the board passing wise, the 49ers have increased the efficiency and averages with Kaep behind center. Never mind completion rate. Kaep thows a ball away and still has to gain chemistry with his recievers. Smith already has taken 24 sacks while starting (to go with his 44 last season). Sacks are negative plays. Sacks on 3rd down even are more negative. The 49ers have improved on the 3rd down stat since Kaep has started, and that 3rd down stat had been poor with Smith, even with Harbaugh.

Things like this are the reason why the 49er hired Harbaugh. If he can increase and improve the passing offense with another QB, he will. Despite what the fans and the media wish and question. The system isn't built around Smith. The system is the system itself, like Martz's system in STL, where he plugged in Bulger over Warner. Only this system has balance, and the threat of the run with all the different formations and sets needs a mobile QB who can be a threat with the run. That along with being more aggresive with the throws, having a big arm to make deeper plays, and a fast trigger to keep defenses guessing and off-balance with increased passing tempo.

Steve Young used to say when you go on the road, you pack your Defense and Special Teams. Kaep has passed the 'road test' in a hostile environment with payback added in from NO. People look at his overall stat line and say "well Smith does that in his sleep". So a second year guy in the NFL does what Smith already has done, but does it better. Got it. There have been plenty of games last season where Smith had gone 18 of 30+ for zero TDs in a win. Smith already had a game against NYJ where he went 12-21 for zero TDs in a win. This is why you have one of the best defenses in the NFL, and with the 49ers fast approaching the Salary Cap ceiling, that defense could be missing a few key pieces down the road. That's why you go and find a true Franchise QB to keep you competitive, and Smith is no Franchise QB. Not saying Kaep is, but the 49ers without Bill Walsh anywhere in the room haven't found one yet.

That's why they hired Jim Harbaugh.

Edited November 27, 2012 by drummer