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USA Shootings (7 Viewers)

Stealthycat said:
do you not read these threads? Just in the past couple of hours left siding liberals have said lets ban 'em all

the assault weapons laws being passed literally in places like Boulder would take 1/2 my guns if I obeyed them. My Ruger .22, my hunting rifles that have a clip, my 16 year old sons turkey shotgun because it has a pistol grip and can change to a rifled slug barrel to deer hunt with .......... all banned under " assault weapons " laws as they are written

so while you might say you don't want to take my guns, the legislation takes my guns that your support

can you explain that ? meanwhile, these shootings go on, anti-gun people or people who want severe gun laws don't give up anything but demand others do and ignore the core problem :(
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I don't even own a gun, but was under the impression most gun owners call them magazines.  

That aside, let's suppose you would have to turn in those guns because they are not compliant.  I would assume there would be a buy-back and you would get market value for your guns, what would prevent you from going to the gun store and buying new guns to hunt turkey and deer with?

 
Stealthycat said:
understand these guns are semi-auto, on the low end powerful rifle, nothing more or less

you DO know that right ?

This is a report now ........... and the kid was 17. Not legally allowed to buy any gun, any ammunition, pipe bombs certainly wasn't allowed. He took them to a school illegally and illegally hurt others.

How many other laws did he break and all of what ya'll are wanting he'd have broken those laws too.
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You're going to have to explain what you mean by this.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Everything -  guns, booze, women, you name it.
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ok if you can do that, I'll be interested to see how many non-gun owning people want to be responsible for someone stealing something of theirs, it being used wrong and them being blamed for what the thieves did with that stolen property

good luck - I don't think it'll fly

 
Stealthycat said:
other than that, what you are suggesting is when you give your 16 year old the keys to your car to drive to a movie and they wreck and kill someone, that's also parents fault
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You can't make an argument without this comparison can you?  :lmao:  

Best part is, this is exactly true and the law in some states :lol:  

 
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Stealthycat said:
if they gave them to the kid before school and allowed him to take them .... there is a responsibility there

other than that, what you are suggesting is when you give your 16 year old the keys to your car to drive to a movie and they wreck and kill someone, that's also parents fault

it isn't - people, even under 18, have personal responsibility for their actions. i know that's radical, anti-liberal thought but its one of the big failures in this country right now, blaming everyone else for things you do vs accepting the responsibility of own actions
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Are you under the impression parents wouldn't get successfully sued in that situation?

 
Calvitron Johnson said:
Just for the record, on mass killings including school shootings, 'praying' is still batting zero.
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We don't know this for certain. How many would-be school shooters might have been distracted from their mission by the divine intervention of a particularly good Dukes of Hazzard rerun coming on?

 
Stealthycat said:
you have to be able to see how the suggestions you're putting forth will impact other things The Commish
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Gun laws don't impact anything other than guns.  Same is true of alcohol.  The best part is, in some states, parents actually are responsible, so there's that :lol:  

 
Stealthycat said:
"we" are not doing it

the very few evil people acting is doing it

terrorism is winning big right now - when you let the violent actions of a very few dictate your lives they've won
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Is there like some kind of bat signal you get on these deals? If your priority is “won’t someone speak for the guns” on days like these I would recommend some time for self reflection. 

 
Stealthycat said:
"we" are not doing it

the very few evil people acting is doing it

terrorism is winning big right now - when you let the violent actions of a very few dictate your lives they've won
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No people like you are doing it.  You are okay with this outcome to protect your guns.  It is a choice you are making.  Your guns over everything else.

Be honest and be a man and at least admit that. 

 
Stealthycat said:
"we" are not doing it

the very few evil people acting is doing it

terrorism is winning big right now - when you let the violent actions of a very few dictate your lives they've won
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Now THIS I agree with 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%  The astonishing number of people who feel like they are only safe when they have their gun is incredibly large.  That's something I've learned through these discussions.  I can't imagine living in that sort of fearful state.  Terrorism is definitely winning in a lot of minds.

 
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Dickies said:
I don't even own a gun, but was under the impression most gun owners call them magazines.  

That aside, let's suppose you would have to turn in those guns because they are not compliant.  I would assume there would be a buy-back and you would get market value for your guns, what would prevent you from going to the gun store and buying new guns to hunt turkey and deer with?
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clip / magazine ... the terms interact depending on where you're from

I call a ravine a holler and a creek is called a crick in some places ... I know what they all mean.

Why would I have to do that to satisfy someone's irrational fears? My guns have zero threat to anyone. I like what I have, I bought them each for a specific reason on how they're built etc.

The one is handed down by my grandfather and my family has little things handed down. I'm never giving the Govt that gun. Ever.

Even doing all those things you suggest would still not do a single thing to prevent someone from mass murdering. You've literally taken guns from millions ... and ignored the very few people who would do these things. How in the world is that sensible ?

 
roadkill1292 said:
We don't know this for certain. How many would-be school shooters might have been distracted from their mission by the divine intervention of a particularly good Dukes of Hazzard rerun coming on?
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Stupid nanny state getting them Duke boys off the air because the General has a Confederate flag on it... :kicksrock:  

 
timschochet said:
I highly doubt this. You’re a gun grabber (NRA term for anybody who believes in the slightest gun control); therefore by definition  you’re completely ignorant about firearms. 
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dude carries a 10mm IIRC

I don't know what Henry Ford really wants on gun control, but I don't think he's ignorant on guns like many here are

 
The Commish said:
Now THIS I agree with 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%  The astonishing number of people who feel like they are only safe when they have their gun is incredibly large.  That's something I've learned through these discussions.  I can't imagine living in that sort of fearful state.  Terrorism is definitely winning in a lot of minds.
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people who want to ban guns are the people afraid

they don't have them and are scares ####less because other people do

if you and I are side by side in Wal-Mart and you see I have a gun .... are you afraid ?

because if I see you with one, I have zero fear at all

 
I've been having a discussion with The Commish in this thread for the last week. Occasionally a troll will pop in to make a snide comment, but for the most part no discussion from others. Now that there's a shooting, everyone has a comment.

For those of you that say people don't want to ban all guns, book mark the last few pages for future reference. This is the slippery slope that people said would not happen. It's now happening. 

Those that said we need to start with assault rifles and I said that shooters would move on to other weapons. That has now happened. 

Those that say we devalue lives for the sake of gun ownership. Do we devalue lives for the sake of alcohol consumption?

This is an emotional response to a horrible event. I'm willing to discuss if you want to have a conversation based on facts. 

 
toshiba said:
No people like you are doing it.  You are okay with this outcome to protect your guns.  It is a choice you are making.  Your guns over everything else.

Be honest and be a man and at least admit that. 
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my guns are no more the problem than the automobile that he drove to the school being the problem

this 17 year old broke so many laws. .........  you think more would have stopped him ? seriously ?

 
KCitons said:
Those that say we devalue lives for the sake of gun ownership. Do we devalue lives for the sake of alcohol consumption?
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damn right society does

and they devalue life for the sake of abortion and smoking cigarettes and mass prescription drug use too

however, on the honest side the above are not used as ways to kill other people (other than abortion) .... they are means of killing self. I guess you can argue drug use leads to violence often enough

had this kid only used pipe bombs ..... would there be a call to ban pipes ?

 
Stealthycat said:
it isn't - people, even under 18, have personal responsibility for their actions. i know that's radical, anti-liberal thought but its one of the big failures in this country right now, blaming everyone else for things you do vs accepting the responsibility of own actions
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry here.  I am probably crying through the laughter.

You should think very carefully about the position for which you just advocated:  Personal Responsibility, and not blaming others.

Now, square that position with:  "Hey its not my fault if someone takes my gun I left laying around and goes to kill someone."  Where exactly is the "accepting responsibility of own actions" in that thought process?

 
Stealthycat said:
my guns are no more the problem than the automobile that he drove to the school being the problem

this 17 year old broke so many laws. .........  you think more would have stopped him ? seriously ?
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You keep saying this stuff.  Are you trying to say that we should have no laws because people will break them?

 
Stealthycat said:
exactly what i said
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Then why, in a discussion about the power of a rifle, are you directing me to the wikipedia page of a generic .223 cartridge?

Power of a weapon is only partially dependent on the cartridge, and the number of different .223 cartridges out there would fill a page.  No, it's not a .460 Weatherby or a .45 Raptor, but it's also not a .22.  

 
The Commish said:
Now THIS I agree with 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%  The astonishing number of people who feel like they are only safe when they have their gun is incredibly large.  That's something I've learned through these discussions.  I can't imagine living in that sort of fearful state.  Terrorism is definitely winning in a lot of minds.
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Guns are all about making yourself feel safe.  It's funny too because the same guys who need a gun to feel safe are the one mocking "safe spaces."  

Kind of like how Trump projects all of his shortcomings onto others.

 
KCitons said:
I've been having a discussion with The Commish in this thread for the last week. Occasionally a troll will pop in to make a snide comment, but for the most part no discussion from others. Now that there's a shooting, everyone has a comment.

For those of you that say people don't want to ban all guns, book mark the last few pages for future reference. This is the slippery slope that people said would not happen. It's now happening. 

Those that said we need to start with assault rifles and I said that shooters would move on to other weapons. That has now happened. 

Those that say we devalue lives for the sake of gun ownership. Do we devalue lives for the sake of alcohol consumption?

This is an emotional response to a horrible event. I'm willing to discuss if you want to have a conversation based on facts. 
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Happy to have a conversation with you KCitons, as I find you rational and willing to engage. 

One correction: I am in favor of banning certain guns. I am not in favor of seizing any guns. If you already own an AR-15 you should be able to keep it. You shouldn’t be able to sell it or give it away. I don’t want the state to be in the habit of seizing guns except when we’re talking about felons or the mentally unstable. 

I don’t think my view here is based on emotion, though I’m certainly emotional right now. It is based on the fact that I believe firmly that we will be safer as a society if we do this, and we will have less of these horrific crimes. There is evidence to back up this claim: during the last assault weapons ban, as inconsistent as it was, we had less mass shootings. That is a simple fact. We can not eliminate mass shootings through this idea or any of my proposals (universal background checks and full registration) but we can make them more rare, and we can do so without infringing on the rights of the casual law abiding gun owner- though that gun owner will have to go through more hoops and pay more for the privilege. 

Thats what I want. 

 
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If someone feels like they need to be packing heat in Walmart while picking up some light bulbs or whatever, then they are the one's afraid of something. What that something is, I am not sure. But you can bet I won't be finding out, and getting away from that person as soon as possible. I have no idea if I can trust their intentions. Maybe they're a great guy. Maybe they're a psycho who is about to snap. How could I know? All I know is now my percentages of getting shot have increased from zero.

What a weird thing to say.

 
Stealthycat said:
people who want to ban guns are the people afraid

they don't have them and are scares ####less because other people do

if you and I are side by side in Wal-Mart and you see I have a gun .... are you afraid ?

because if I see you with one, I have zero fear at all
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me?  no.....I'm not at all afraid of guns but I appreciate the automatic "nuh uh....YOU'RE the scardy cat!!!!!!" response....this is text book.  I'm good calling those who are afraid of guns and those who are afraid of being without a gun scared....deal?

You walking around with a gun to a person like me, provides me an opportunity I wouldn't normally have if I really wanted to do harm to you as you were walking around unaware of my presence.  

 
timschochet said:
Happy to have a conversation with you KCitons, as I find you rational and willing to engage. 

One correction: I am in favor of banning certain guns. I am not in favor of seizing any guns. If you already own an AR-15 you should be able to keep it. You shouldn’t be able to sell it or give it away. I don’t want the state to be in the habit of seizing guns except when we’re talking about felons or the mentally unstable. 

I don’t think my view here is based on emotion, though I’m certainly emotional right now. It is based on the fact that I believe firmly that we will be safer as a society if we do this, and we will have less of these horrific crimes. There is evidence to back up this claim: during the last assault weapons ban, as inconsistent as it was, we had less mass shootings. That is a simple fact. We can not eliminate mass shootings through this idea or any of my proposals (universal background checks and full registration) but we can make them more rare, and we can do so without infringing on the rights of the casual law abiding gun owner- though that gun owner will have to go through more hoops and pay more for the privilege. 

Thats what I want. 
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I don't think your going to get the results you're looking for unless you seize guns. There are too many guns embedded in the populous to prevent what happened today from happening again. I'll wait for confirmation, but this was probably an incident where this kid had access to a hunting shotgun. We can't force everyone to lock up their guns. There's now way to verify without going house to house and doing a safe inspection. 

You know where I stand on the pay for privilege stance. It think it makes gun ownership a right of the wealthy. And we know from mass shootings that the shooters are not determined by privilege or money. Hoops are fine as long as there not used for a witch hunt. 

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
If someone feels like they need to be packing heat in Walmart while picking up some light bulbs or whatever, then they are the one's afraid of something
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because no crimes ever happen in a wal-mart ?

or maybe because you think crimes never happen anywhere except in back alleys of inner cities ?

crimes happens EVERYWHERE

you'd be scared of me having a gun wouldn't you ? oddly enough, I'm MORE comfortable in a surroundings where concealed weapons owners are.

 
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