Politician Spock
Footballguy
So you want taxpayers covering the bill of potential mass shooters' treatment because there's no gun license to take away from them?
I'm not following your comparison of the two at all. Seriously. They're very different.
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USA Shootings (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter randall146
- Start date
I'm not following your comparison of the two at all. Seriously. They're very different.
KCitons
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
This is where we disagree. It was discussed up thread. People don't drive drunk on accident.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
The bolded is very true. They also get lawmakers to respond to them and have gotten many changes implemented. When progress is being made, the issue doesn't escalate more and more and more until it's grown into a national outrage. It's when the lawmakers do nothing that the issue becomes what the gun issue has become. If KCitons wants to know why the drunk driving issue and the gun issue are so different, he simply has to look at lawmaker apathy towards the gun issue. And that apathy exists because the NRA owns so many of them.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
No one has ever argued against drunk being an accident on here. People who drive drunk do it full well knowing they are at risk. They are not purposefully trying to get in a wreck though. They are not trying to kill anyone. This is the disconnect you have here.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
What would motivate him to do so? When a person loses their drivers licenses because the government deems they need help, they're motivated to get help so they can get their drivers license back. The government can deem potential mass shooters need help, but what would motivate them to cover the bill?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
They purposefully get behind the wheel knowing being impaired greatly enhances their chances of killing someone. It's not completely an accident
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
In order for something not to be an accident there needs to be intent. Unless the driver has intent to kill someone then it's an accident. If you fire a gun at a target and it ricochets off and hits someone it's an accident even though you know there's a risk that someone could get hurt while firing a gun.
Someone eating in there car or using their phone or is very tired is just as dangerous as a drunk driver. Are you going to treat a tired driver the same way?
msommer
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Or, how about this. If one gets a perfect score on their driving exam, then any wreck they cause that results in death is assumed to be an accidental death.
But if you get a 90-99 score, then it's assumed it is a 3rd degree manslaughter.
And if you get a 80-89 score, then it's assumed it is a 2rd degree manslaughter.
But if you get a 70-79 score, then it's assumed it is a 1st degree manslaughter.
Because your intent is obviously determined entirely by your driving abilities.... according to KCitons. If you suck as a driver, you're out to kill us all!
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
If driving drunk and killing someone is not considered an accident then we should assume that anyone driving drunk is actually attempting murder at all times regardless if they kill anyone or not. Should we treat all drunk drivers as attempted murderers? If this were the case KCitons dad should be locked up for life for multiple attempted murders. I should have been locked up longer for attempting to murder people the night I got my DUI.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I'm not comparing drunk driving to shooting a gun. I'm saying a drunk driver had an intent to drive a car knowing he was impaired significantly increasing the chances a wreck would occur and kill someone. Calling it just an accident is being obtuse.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
LOL. You serious, Clark? You got some statistics on drunk driving deaths vs. Eating in there car deaths?
KCitons
Footballguy
First off, it's my (step) Father in Law. Please don't attach any bloodline to the piece of ####.
And yes. Driving drunk shows no respect for other people on the road. It's like playing Russian Roulette. Except you're pointing the gun at someone else. (fitting analogy)
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I think it places more responsibility on the driver because of that. You are correct but it still does not cause intent to kill anyone. It's not obtuse at all, it's factual.
I remember watching a Mythbusters episode where they were trying to determine what was worse, driving drunk or driving while sleep deprived. They found they were worse drivers when tired compared to being drunk. Now, this isn't a perfect example but it does show that being sleep deprived can be just as bad or even worse that being. Are you suggesting the same for tired drivers?
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
Your assumption would be wrong. But, as with gun ownership, I take precautions to not put other people at risk.
What difference would it make if I don't drink?
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Here are some statistics. I did not say that distracted driving causes more deaths but I did say it can be just as dangerous which is true.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Well since you started comparing it to shooting deaths, I think deaths are important. And you said eating while driving was just as dangerous. Now, you're trying to lump any possible distraction at all together. It's quite ignorant to say eating while driving is more dangerous than drunk driving but I'm enjoying seeing how far you will argue this point.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I personally know a lot of people who can be very vocal about drinking and driving, such as yourself, but I have seen them drink and drive numerous times. I've found many people to be major hypocrites. Not saying you are but I was curious if you drink or not. If you do drink there's a good chance you have driven while over the limit at least once in the last couple years. It does not take very much to be over the .08 limit.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I didn't say eating while driving was more dangerous. I said it can be just as dangerous. To say driving while distracted is not dangerous is what's quite ignorant. I honestly don't want driving compared to shooting deaths at all. I've said numerous times that it should not be lumped into the same discussion but there are two people here who constantly bring it back to that.
James Daulton
Footballguy
We still comparing car accidents to gun murders in here?
lmfao
lmfao
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
And you've yet to display proof that eating causes as many deaths as drunk driving.
And fine, let me know when someone says driving while distracted is not dangerous.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
False. I go out of my way to make sure this doesn't happen. When I drink, I do it at home 90% of the time. If I am out at a restaurant, I will only have 1 beer before dinner and then switch to something non alcoholic. I also make sure I'm not drinking and then leaving within a short amount of time. If that's the case, then I don't drink at all. When I go to a party, I either have my wife drive or I don't drink, so she can. (this has become more difficult, because she can't drive at night. So, she get's a built in designated driver if it's an evening party). A few years back we went to a New Years Eve party at a bowling alley. We had our daughter drive us and pick us up, so we could both drink without worry.
It's not difficult to do. Alcohol is not a "have to" thing. I would question someone that feels it is.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
Why an 8 for them?
Imagine God raptured all guns in America. They're up in heaven, in the right hand of God the Father almighty.
Last edited by a moderator:
KCitons
Footballguy
No we are discussing why society is appalled at only certain types of innocent deaths.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Eating while driving can cause a person to be distracted. Just like someone putting on makeup in the car or trying to read something. I did not say how many accidents it causes and don't plan to since that was not my intent. My intent was that it can be just as dangerous, as in the end result, death. I was not talking about the frequency.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Why are attempting to create an accident with intended murder? It's so transparent and intellectually dishonest as to be laughable. Yes people make mistakes, drink, drive, and kill people sometimes. This has zero to do with someone entering a building, pulling out a gun, and blowing people away. If you care about people taking you seriously, stop comparing the two.
And there's tons done to minimize and educate against drunk driving. Laws have gotten way stiffer over time and public awareness is very high.
The only thing increasing about mass shootings besides the shootings themselves are the amount of thoughts and prayers being sent out to victims.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
You lost me with this one.
Imagine leprechauns and unicorns protected our children from mass shooters.
It's an 8 for other people because they spend much more time hunting than I do. I already mentioned the memories that I had with my dad and brothers on hunting trips. I would like to do the same with my kids.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I suppose if I ignore them maybe they will stop bringing it up. I doubt they will stop though.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Society is totally appalled at drunk driving. Hence the increased restrictions, sentences over time and the public shame it renders.
This is about mass shootings, nothing else.
KCitons
Footballguy
Have we done the same for guns?
We don't even try to use education or other means to correct the problem. It's all or nothing.
zoonation
Footballguy
Actually, it’s not. Once again you display a remarkable inability to grasp very simple concepts
mens rea. Look into it.
adonis
Footballguy
I have fond memories camping when I was a kid too. But if all of a sudden my camping gear was mysteriously gone, it'd be nowhere near an 8.
KCitons
Footballguy
Society is not totally appalled. If they were, the problem would be addressed in manners that result in a fix.
In reality, this is about the 2nd Amendment.
KCitons
Footballguy
Great. So you pointed out that people are different. Should I scorn you because you don't have a higher number?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
No facts to back anything up. Go right to insulting the other poster. Your IQ is probably 50 at best. I can play this game too
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Was trying to point out why their comparisons sucked but it's just a waste of time. You don't seem to be helping either so maybe we should just both stop. Hopefully the others will as well and the discussion can be just about shootings again.
zoonation
Footballguy
This isn’t about “facts”. It is about logic. A drunk driver does not have the “intent” to kill someone. Do they increase the odds of doing so by getting behind the wheel? Of course. But there is a reason the law creates classes of killing offenses (murder1,2 manslaughter etc) with markedly different punishments. Because intent matters and, in fact, is the delineating factor in assessing how heinous a crime is.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
A drunk driver getting behind the wheel has intent knowing he has significantly increased the risk of getting into a wreck and/or killing someone. It's not just completely an "accident". No where did I once claim it was first degree premeditated murder but carry on.
KCitons
Footballguy
adonis
Footballguy
No, but its hard to understand why it'd be such a loss for folks...was making the point that it has to go beyond nostalgia to be an 8 one would think.
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