Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
USA Shootings (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter randall146
- Start date
KCitons
Footballguy
I'm sorry. But this is a pretty selfish and narrow minded statement. Just because you don't feel the same way as someone else, then it must not be possible?
I have a few friends that purchased land for the sole purpose of hunting. It's what they enjoy. Luckily, they share their good fortune with myself and my kids.
adonis
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
Hard to understand?
People are different. They like different sports, different foods and different hobbies.
I don't think it's that hard to understand.
adonis
Footballguy
If someone tells me that the sudden disappearance of powdered donuts would be an 8 on their scale, I'd say that's hard to understand for me. My life, nor the life of almost anyone I know, is inextricably linked with powdered donut consumption.
Similarly, I know a lot of folks who hunt, but that occupies less than a few percentage points, in terms of time, of their entire year. It'd be hard to understand how the loss of guns, where you'd still have bows and arrows, and spears, and crossbows, and other options to still hunt, would just devastate them.
I have a feeling there'd be an adjustment period, after which they figure out how to continue doing what they enjoyed doing, but in a different way.
KCitons
Footballguy
How do you goose hunt with bows and arrows, spears, or crossbows?
One of my friends owns land for the sole purpose of duck and goose hunting.
adonis
Footballguy
How do you get powdered sugar all over your fingers and have that enjoyment of licking it off without powdered donuts?
I guess you don't, but you move on. There are regular donuts. There are other desserts. There are options.
I suspect if your friend wasn't able to goose hunt anymore, he'd move on to other forms of hunting with some frustration, annoyance, and maybe loss of money in the sale of the lease/land, but overall the loss would likely be reasonably mild.
KCitons
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
The way land prices are he'd probably end up making money off the sale of it in the near future.
adonis
Footballguy
There are folks out there who lose their #### when they're unable to find a pair of shoes their size in a store and they scream at the sales clerks and cause a huge scene and go home and have their weeks ruined from the experience.
I don't understand those people. Call it narrow minded if you like, but there are some approaches to life that I just don't get.
If one of those is a guy who leases land to kill geese with a gun would be just crushed if he could no longer kill geese with guns on his land, that's another person I just don't understand. There are other creatures to kill on that land, in other ways. There is other land to kill other creatures in other ways. If his scope, pardon the pun, of enjoyable activities is limited to 1: Killing geese 2. With a gun 3. On my land - then I have a hard time understanding that.
I enjoy vacations. I enjoy beach vacations. There's a place my family owns on a beach where I enjoy visiting, and have gone for many years. If one day that house was no longer available for vacations, which I enjoy...I'd be sad, disappointed, but I'd move on and find somewhere else to go that I enjoy.
KCitons
Footballguy
Both wrong.
The land is basically sand hills. The lake is man made, but shallow (no boating). There is a buried tanker that serves as a goose blind. It has zero purpose other than hunting geese. There are maybe a handful of trees on the entire 40 acres. Nothing has a purpose to be there except waterfowl and hunters.
There are dozens of hunting spots just like these in the same area.
adonis
Footballguy
Ok, got it..if he had to move on from killing geese with guns on this specifically useless tract of land, his life would be in tatters.
Like i said, i don't understand. Call it narrow minded if you want.
KCitons
Footballguy
Right. You said that your family enjoys a beach house. If that was gone, you would move on to another place. What if all beach property was gone? Would you be just as happy vacationing in the mountains? Would you still wear your Speedo on the ski slopes?
adonis
Footballguy
I wear my speedos everywhere, so that's no problem unless I'm forced to give them up...then woe unto the person that tries to take them from my cold, dead loins.
But yes, if it was gone we'd move to another location. Vacations can take place anywhere. It's about family, and enjoying the time together, and having fun. Sure, beaches are nice, but it'd be pretty odd if I said I couldn't enjoy a vacation anywhere but on the beach, a specific beach on property I own, and I must enjoy the beach in a specific way OR else my world is pretty close to being overturned. Just don't understand that thinking.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Soundslike the typical deflection of I care more about my guns then other issues retort.KCitons said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
Bull we can do a lot of things. For instance we can start boycotting every dam company who donates to the NRA. Next we can vote for people who aren't in the NRA or someone with an agenda to not make better gun safety and common sense gun laws out of office. We can do a better job of teaching gun safety. Making better common sense laws. Everyone knows we aren't going to fully stop gun violence but if we can cut the amount of gun related deaths in a single year after these measures even by 1/4 of what they are now thats a huge victory for us as a country as a whole. Also these millennial kids especially these students far outnumber baby boomers. Even if not all of them vote this coming election thats a lot of people who can change. Remember theres students who have been involved in these school shootings who have seen enough and are out in full force to make a change. Many will be eligible to vote come November and thats why the Right is shaking in their boots so much and trying to discredit these amazing young kids. They know they are ####ed if many of these kids end up voting. We need to take back out country. Make these rich clowns work for us not for the %1. If you show you can't handle that the next eligible re election you are gonna be looking for a new job when you get voted out.pantherclub said:
KCitons
Footballguy
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
While gun regulation is important, it's not more important than things that directly effect my family. Do you vote based solely on what helps other people, with zero regard to your own families well being?
KCitons
Footballguy
If you remove hunting, how do you replicate that? Your vacation is about family and enjoying time together. A hunter may enjoy the scouting, setting up stands, shooting, and processing of the animal.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Why and whats the point of this?
Example of a common sense gun law?
The right isnt worried about these kids dude
Now you just sound a bit over the top here with your rant my man
DJackson10
Footballguy
They want simple common sense gun laws. People take this whole ban assault weapons or just ban all guns especially on the right to try and discredit what people want to do or twist words. We want an assault weapons ban yes but we also want better common sense gun laws. One of those big laws is to charge the parent or whoever these kids took the gun from accountable and arrested for allowing their gun to be taken. Obviously if they can't properly store a gun so someone under 18 can't get it they aren't that responsible and probably shouldn't own firearms.Ditka Butkus said:
dkp993
Footballguy
@KCitons serious question here.... I'm pro gun rights and 2nd amendment, I also have a 3yr old daughter that is coming up on school age. I have to admit the recent rise in school shooting has me seriously thinking that it's time for a change, though admittingly I have no well thought out plan for that change. So with that said where is the line for you to reconsider our countries current stance on guns?
DJackson10
Footballguy
Usually white. usually Trump supporters, usually with a pathetic excuse they were bullied at school (A few do to bigot views), at least 2 or so of these people have sympathized with White Supremacy. The theme here is we got a big domestic terrorism problem in the US. This isn't just concerning School shootings either.Ditka Butkus said:
pantherclub
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
We're allowed to change amendments. I don't know why people hold the 2nd like it's untouchable. Legally by law if a vote is made and change to yes to change the 2nd amendment can be changed to fit todays times. It's just an incredible hard vote with all these politicians on both sides who are in the NRA's pocket to vote in their favor plus the President has to sign off on it and our Traitor in Chief I doubt would sign it.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Now this I can agree with you on. Yes there's blame to go to these parents too. It's hard for schools to discipline these kids. I work in retail and when I first got into the business (Working for 14 yrs and just kept moving up) we saw the bad parent who let the kid run wild but only on occasion. These days I feel like there's way more kids like this. I had a father who was discipline his child in front of my one boss and I. The kid was no more then 4 and the parent was dropping f Bombs, and using some pretty disrespectful vocabulary. My boss calmly went over to the father and told him we don't tolerate that language and if you have to please take the child outside and come back in. The dad I thought was going to blow his top and got incredible defensive. It got to the point we had to call the cops because people started to get concerned for the child and his siblings safety. Cops came and took care of it. So I definitely see where teachers are coming from. I have several friends who are and many of these parents get very defensive when you tell them their little Johnny is being a disruption in the classroom and school yard.Ditka Butkus said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
His idea is very similar to the laws of Gun ownership in Australia. My cousins Fiancee has several family members who are pro gun and had many before the ban after the mass shooting in the 90s. Read a times article a gun owner there talked about the class differences and such. Many agree it's a bit of a pain to wait longer to get a new firearm or whatever but they are ok with it as long as they get to keep most of their guns and more deaths are not happening. Parts of what he's proposed have worked in Australia. Many of us think people should have the right to own a firearm however not own military grade or styled weapons. want to play soldier and shoot those weapons I heard the military is desperate for new enlistments. You can go play soldier in real war with your toys there.
KCitons
Footballguy
We are past that line. I won't hold you accountable for not reading all 180 pages (I know it's long, boring and often times off topic). I have been in this thread nearly every day having discussion about gun control (and other things). I've posted numerous times what I think would be steps to prevent mass shootings, and specifically school shootings.
1- Raise the minimum age to purchase a gun to 21. My reasoning is that some of these shooters were under that age and they never would have acquired the gun had this law been in place. I also feel if we can trust a 21 year old to drink responsibly, then why can't we expect them to be responsible gun owners?
2- Universal background checks for all gun purchases. This also would have prevented some of the school shootings. I would require this process to be simple, quick and cost effective. We can order millions of items from Amazon and have it delivered to our door by drone. I think we have the technology and ingenuity to accomplish this.
3- Limit magazine capacity on all guns to 6. Making every gun essentially a revolver. The more times a shooter has to change magazines, the more likely a jam or lull in the shooting where he could be neutralized.
4 - Allow the AR15 to be produced in 22 caliber only. All current AR15 can easily be retrofitted to 22 caliber. This does not ban a gun, but instead bans the caliber that can cause such damage in a short period of time. Paired with number 3 above, and you now reduced the number of school shootings to single digits.
None of those four infringe on rights or ban a gun.
KCitons
Footballguy
That's age discrimination. A person over 50 would not be accepted into the military.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Like cars theres a liability law if someone without insurance takes the car not licensed and kills someone parent is held accountable. Same here. If it's found out the gun wasn't properly stored the parent is also held liable. In this case I would also take the parents gun license away as they've shown they can't handle owning a gun in a responsible matter. There would be fines which go to gun prevention and safety foundations so the fines are used for great causes to help the overall issue. Like a lot of us know so we don't need people to keep saying it we know we aren't gonna solve all gun crimes. If we can even get 1/4 of the gun related deaths down in this country of the first full year of these laws we can count that as a major victory already but still work to do. We will never stop all gun deaths but considering our gun deaths more then triple the next highest countries we need to do something about it and find out why these countries have so little other then their gun laws.
dkp993
Footballguy
Thank you for the response and not holding me accountable to not seeing your responses earlier. I’m having a tough enough time keeping up with the 3000 and 1500 page Trump trends. Lol.
Your ideas all seem like a reasonable step in the right direction to me, I would have no problem signing on with all of them.
DJackson10
Footballguy
You also have them go to DR other the their own who gives them a mental and physical test. If they can't complete it they can't be eligible for a gun. Obviously people are gonna fall through the cracks as with any policy but it would prevent less gun deaths then what we currently have which is nothing. You also can't buy a gun if you've been charged with a crime. For example domestic violence, robbery, arrests for fighting and stuff like that. Obviously the type of crimes would be put into.a list and graded into what was a violent crime and what wasn't as well.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Plus we make it harder for said firearms to be purchased the higher the price those guns become. it's basically illegal unless you have such a high class to purchase an AR in Australia. You literally have to mortagage the house if you aren't a millianaire to purchase an AR and it's very hard to find anyplace that will have one let alone selll you one. In some of these countries with much stricter laws an AR can run you close to 100K and that's without purchasing ammo or anything else you can legally purchase with it. The ammo will cost you a lot as well. Black market illegal gun trade can cost up to 500K-1M or more depending what country and where you get it or from who. I highly doubt these HS and MS shooters have that kind of dough lying under their bed if these laws were here.
DJackson10
Footballguy
We'll be eliminating rocket launchers and grenades. We'd make it absolutely illegal to purchase a military style weapon. In other words you want to go play with those Guns join the Military because that's the only way you can have one unless you are rich and want to purchase off the black market. Even then that's kind of dangerous. Guys could just take your money and off you.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Isn't this what most hardcore gun rights owners are admitting too. We don't want change because we are brainwashed any regulation is on the ingringement of our rights? meanwhile I bet you most of them are sensitive about other like black athletes protesting the flag and using their first amendment rights. Nothing like my rights are more important then yours type crowd. It's why I call Bull on many Gun right activist. It's all about rights until someone does something they disagree with but are still using their rights.
DJackson10
Footballguy
We all get that some gun owners need their guns especially if they live on farms and such and hunt. Those rights wouldn't be infringed upon. Its a simple solution go and get trained and get your license and insured for that gun and you are fine. No rights are violated. People don't seem to have a problem with getting their license to hunt so why would they have a problem going through similar measures for the weapon used to hunt with?
DJackson10
Footballguy
Probably way more. I can't remember exactly when the law was made but I remember my grandpa and great uncle and some of my uncles as well as my customers talking how they use to drive around drinking "Road sodas" all night long and then driving home piss drunk. We'd probably have way more DUI deaths if this law wasn't in place. A good friend of mine a former Co worker lost their mother to a DUI driver on the road near my house.
KCitons
Footballguy
I've never had to take a mental exam to obtain a deer permit. There are rights being violated. Much like people complain about Trump dodging the draft. Would it be possible to pay of an mental professional to say that someone is ok to obtain a firearm. Are we then holding that person liable as well? There is no way to have thousands of mental professionals maintain the same standards when it comes to evaluating a gray area. (pun intended). Physical Dr's can't even agree on many things.
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
I don't think you are being fair to the folks here that are "pro gun", what ever that means. I think several of us have stated that we support more stringent background checks and don't have a problem with training. I mentioned before that I don't like the idea of a public registry of gun owners but I don't have any issue with a license that enables you to purchase guns when some reasonable level of competancy and background check have been done.
I assume the pro gun folks here that are taking the time to discuss this likely have their concealed carry permits which require everything I think you are suggesting folks do to own a gun. I'm fine with requiring everyone to go through the course every couple years if they want to buy and own guns of any type.
DJackson10
Footballguy
You can usually count for at least one gun Rights activist to bring up DUI accidents during talks about gun deaths. It's one of the go to deflect from the real problems comments
pantherclub
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
If no guns existed any where as if they had never been invented and the police don't have them or the bad guys or the military. It would be no issue at all.
But why do I have to be at a disadvantage to the bad guys, police, and military? I am a law abiding US citizen, why am I not afforded the right to protect my life, liberty and pursuit of happienes? Am I forced to rely on the police?
Out of curiosity, if the following vanished from your life tomorrow....what would change.
Alcohol
tobacco
Weed
Soda/pop
Fast food restaurants
Candy / Cake
Removing the above from society would likely save millions more lives that removing guns. Why are we not targeting these as well.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I vote on issues that are most important to me. I vote for people who will make better gun laws because I have cousins still in MS and HS along with several close friends in school and some in law enforcement, I vote for people who want to legalize pot. Not because I do it but because I don't see the harm of smoking it and jailing people longer for that then some get for sexaul assault of a minor is embarrassing. I also vote for politicians who want to better the health system and spend more money on research to issues such as Autism and caner do to my aspergers and my mom works at the Children's hospital dealing with cancer patients and their insurance. I vote on multiple issues. You are voting for people like it or not or want to believe it that don't care about you when you allow politicians who are in NRA's pocket. These NRA members today don't care about gun safety like you do. If gun safety is also as important as you say it is why aren't you voting politicians out who are voting against laws for better gun safety. You claim to be a responsible gun owner and take it seriously but your actions say otherwise. If you were about gun safety as much as you say you are well you'd also be voting with us to vote out politicians who don't want that.
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
Perhaps. I would argue that it would be a hurdle that would reduce the number of guns purchase by some amount. It would be relatively inexpensive to implement and it could reduce the number of new guns sold.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Why do you have to be at a disadvantage to the police and military? Are you planning on shooting members of the police and military?
pantherclub
Footballguy
that ship has sailed, there are more guns than people in the US. None of what was suggested would have changed any of the recent shootings. Its making a change just to say you did. Then when it occurs you will want to try something else. The gun control debate in regards to these shootings is over. We need to alter the discussion to mental health, how do survive if something does happen etc
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
I'm not entirely convinced that the police always act in my best interest or even act ethically in many cases. I would prefer to not be completely helpless.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I'm a little confused on what you are getting at here. Why are you against public resgistry of gun ownership? This helps identify if a gun is stolen among other things. We are asking for reasonable more stringent background checks. Many of us want gun license and training similar to how one gets a car and such. I think those are fair compromises. I'm not putting all pro gun people in that argument. Pro gun means you are for the second amendment and maybe we should change pro gun as reasonable gun owners compared to gun rights people who simple want to keep their guns and don't want to change anything. Our laws we have now though are simple not enough. We need to do more especially when it comes to not allowing people who are arrested for DV and other such type crimes still finding loop holes to purchase a gun. I myself want to get rid of many of these loopholes people can so easily jump through. I also don't think anyone under the age of 21 should have a gun unless they hunt and they should have a required gun license as well as a hunting license. If they don't there should be some sort of fine and punishment for them.
Similar threads
