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Should students be allowed to walk out of school to support pro gun rights?


KCitons

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19 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Sure, but guns aren't sold in a set the way that golf clubs are.

Guns are very similar to golf clubs when it comes to specific use. I wouldn't use a deer rifle to shoot a squirrel, the same way I wouldn't use a putter to drive from the tee box. 

I could see wanting maybe 3-4 shotguns for hunting various birds and maybe target shooting.   That leaves 6-7.   Four or five rifles for hunting things from squirrel to elk.   That leaves you 2-3 handguns before you enter gun nut territory.  

Nearly everyone that plays golf needs a full set of clubs.   Only an avid hunter/sportsman would need this many guns, and that's not most gun owners.  The best hunter I know owns one shotgun and he uses that for targets as well.

It's a totally arbitrary number, but at some point it's just owning more guns for the sake of owning more guns.  Completely unnecessary gun ownership=gun nut.

 

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41 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Why can't you have a meaningful discussion about regulation that doesn't involve the 2nd Amendment. 

Because of the people that claim the that gun regulations violate their second amendment rights.   

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I own probably 30 fishing reels and 25 rods.   That would make me a fishing nut.   I don't dispute that nobody really needs that many rods and reels.   But then again, owning a fishing reel doesn't have a direct correlation to the likelihood of myself of a member of my household being injured or killed by a gun.

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1 minute ago, The General said:

There are never golfing tragedies in Pro Shops. The workers there are armed to the teeth. 

We should give golf clubs to teachers?  Screw that.  They already have summers off.

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Just now, -fish- said:

I own probably 30 fishing reels and 25 rods.   That would make me a fishing nut.   I don't dispute that nobody really needs that many rods and reels.   But then again, owning a fishing reel doesn't have a direct correlation to the likelihood of myself of a member of my household being injured or killed by a gun.

Agreed.  Look, there will be no honesty in the gun debate from the right.  So you just label the NRA child murderers and move on.  Labels stick.  Discussion is so 1998.  

 

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Just now, Sabertooth said:

Agreed.  Look, there will be no honesty in the gun debate from the right.  So you just label the NRA child murderers and move on.  Labels stick.  Discussion is so 1998.  

 

It's like golf clubbing fish in a barrel.

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my memory is hazy, but I own: browning .308, marlin lever action, a .270, savage .243, .223, 2 shotguns 12g, 28g, 1 savage? muzzle loader, 1 or 2 other old rifles gifted to me, an HK and a glock.

 

I remember a while ago stating that for the Ds to win, they would be wise to let the gun control issue go.  Well, obviously I was wrong, considering how strong this movement is now.  I didn't say that because I'm a gun nut (I don't think this is a pejorative), but because I think I'm more or less familiar with southern/midwestern families who hunt.  I bought 3 of these guns: the 2 pistols and the browning.  Most of those guns I don't use and have no intention of using (hell, I haven't hunted since I left AR anyway).  The others were gifted to me as I grew up while my grandparents and uncles were giving away their firearms.  I keep them perhaps for the same reason some people keep other family artifacts.  I think you'll see that this is not a unique story in the south and midwest.  It's possible that when people that want to regulate firearms, people with histories like myself may see that as taking away not only their rights, but a little piece of their family history as well.  I'm obviously not concerned, because I support the movement.  I cannot really speak to the people that want to own 10+ assault style rifles, or have a large collection of other handguns.  Please forgive the thought salad.  I don't even know if there is a point in there, but I wanted to share a less common point of view from the dirty progressive crowd.

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:
11 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

I think most people understand that most guns are not used to kill anything - that is actually the problem.  We don't need, and the 2nd Amendment did not contemplate, guns as toys.

Once you get past the notion that killing devices are toys - we can move on to a more meaningful discussion on how to properly safeguard your right to own a gun, and my right to not to live in fear of a society over-run by guns.

Why can't you have a meaningful discussion about regulation that doesn't involve the 2nd Amendment

I'm assuming this is rhetorical, but if not the answer is because if we go long enough, the 2nd is ALWAYS invoked.  Might as well just address the elephant in the room right at the beginning no?

 

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3 hours ago, -fish- said:

I own probably 30 fishing reels and 25 rods.   That would make me a fishing nut.   I don't dispute that nobody really needs that many rods and reels.   But then again, owning a fishing reel doesn't have a direct correlation to the likelihood of myself of a member of my household being injured or killed by a gun.

I currently own only two.  That is sufficient for my needs and activities.  The thing is, I live in Colorado so only engage in fresh water fishing and I do not fly fish.  When I lived in Wisconsin and would occasionally go out onto the Great Lakes I had some heavier tackle as well, but no longer.  Now all my fishing is done from a kayak or stalking along streams.  I would like to get after some tarpon in the gulf again before I give up the ghost.  Trying for a Marlin or two might be interesting as well, but either of those activities are likely to be one offs, so I will rent tackle for that.

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4 hours ago, -fish- said:

I own probably 30 fishing reels and 25 rods.   That would make me a fishing nut.   I don't dispute that nobody really needs that many rods and reels.   But then again, owning a fishing reel doesn't have a direct correlation to the likelihood of myself of a member of my household being injured or killed by a gun.

Weirdo

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19 hours ago, KCitons said:

We already discussed owning more than 30 of something makes people idiots. Now 10 makes you a gun nut.

I'd apply the same logic to golf clubs. You only need one. 

Wait, what?

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12 hours ago, Dedfin said:

my memory is hazy, but I own: browning .308, marlin lever action, a .270, savage .243, .223, 2 shotguns 12g, 28g, 1 savage? muzzle loader, 1 or 2 other old rifles gifted to me, an HK and a glock.

 

I remember a while ago stating that for the Ds to win, they would be wise to let the gun control issue go.  Well, obviously I was wrong, considering how strong this movement is now.  I didn't say that because I'm a gun nut (I don't think this is a pejorative), but because I think I'm more or less familiar with southern/midwestern families who hunt.  I bought 3 of these guns: the 2 pistols and the browning.  Most of those guns I don't use and have no intention of using (hell, I haven't hunted since I left AR anyway).  The others were gifted to me as I grew up while my grandparents and uncles were giving away their firearms.  I keep them perhaps for the same reason some people keep other family artifacts.  I think you'll see that this is not a unique story in the south and midwest.  It's possible that when people that want to regulate firearms, people with histories like myself may see that as taking away not only their rights, but a little piece of their family history as well.  I'm obviously not concerned, because I support the movement.  I cannot really speak to the people that want to own 10+ assault style rifles, or have a large collection of other handguns.  Please forgive the thought salad.  I don't even know if there is a point in there, but I wanted to share a less common point of view from the dirty progressive crowd.

Neither can I. I also can't speak to the people that own more than 10 salt and pepper shakers, 20 golf clubs, or 30 hats. What I can speak to is the fact that a vast majority of gun owners never use their guns to commit crimes and a majority of guns are never used to kill anything. They are used for target shooting which is a sport. The same way golf clubs are used for a sport. I'm sure a golf club could be used to kill someone, but that doesn't mean that's it's only purpose. 

So what we are left with is the decision that someone can have the freedom to own as many golf clubs, baseball bats, or knives as they want. But, we need to regulate the number of guns a person owns. 

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17 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Neither can I. I also can't speak to the people that own more than 10 salt and pepper shakers, 20 golf clubs, or 30 hats. What I can speak to is the fact that a vast majority of gun owners never use their guns to commit crimes and a majority of guns are never used to kill anything. They are used for target shooting which is a sport. The same way golf clubs are used for a sport. I'm sure a golf club could be used to kill someone, but that doesn't mean that's it's only purpose. 

So what we are left with is the decision that someone can have the freedom to own as many golf clubs, baseball bats, or knives as they want. But, we need to regulate the number of guns a person owns. 

Where everyone disagrees with you is that we all KNOW that the majority of guns are created to kill.  That was there purpose since their beginning.  They may be used for sport and target shooting now but that's not why they were created nor what it the reason for the 2nd Amendment.

The rest of your comparisons are extremely weak as they were never created to kill anything and were specifically meant for sport, hobby or collecting.  There's a huge difference.

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23 hours ago, Dedfin said:

my memory is hazy, but I own: browning .308, marlin lever action, a .270, savage .243, .223, 2 shotguns 12g, 28g, 1 savage? muzzle loader, 1 or 2 other old rifles gifted to me, an HK and a glock.

 

I remember a while ago stating that for the Ds to win, they would be wise to let the gun control issue go.  Well, obviously I was wrong, considering how strong this movement is now.  I didn't say that because I'm a gun nut (I don't think this is a pejorative), but because I think I'm more or less familiar with southern/midwestern families who hunt.  I bought 3 of these guns: the 2 pistols and the browning.  Most of those guns I don't use and have no intention of using (hell, I haven't hunted since I left AR anyway).  The others were gifted to me as I grew up while my grandparents and uncles were giving away their firearms.  I keep them perhaps for the same reason some people keep other family artifacts.  I think you'll see that this is not a unique story in the south and midwest.  It's possible that when people that want to regulate firearms, people with histories like myself may see that as taking away not only their rights, but a little piece of their family history as well.  I'm obviously not concerned, because I support the movement.  I cannot really speak to the people that want to own 10+ assault style rifles, or have a large collection of other handguns.  Please forgive the thought salad.  I don't even know if there is a point in there, but I wanted to share a less common point of view from the dirty progressive crowd.

Your story is quite similar to my own.  During my professional life I have been assigned guns, though not currently.  I grew up in a hunting and fishing culture.  A very large percentage of our protein came from such activities, the rest from the farm, as did much of the rest of our food.  Hunting I had a 20 and a 12 gauge, a .22, and a .30.06.  As my family aged I took in, inherited, the guns of family members.  I have also been gifted guns as presents and as momentos from work assignments.  Having moved from Wisconsin to Colorado, with stops elsewhere, my hunting has changed with the environment.  Though my .30.06 would work for elk, moose, and antelope I prefer something a bit more substantial for moose and elk, and a bit quicker, and therefore flatter, for antelope.  Many of my guns have not been shot in a dozen years or more, and likely will not be again by me, though I keep them cleaned and oiled.  I do try to stay proficient with my glocks as I still teach even though my base assignments have moved on.  If invited I will break out a shotgun, but this is infrequent, still pheasant and turkey are mighty tasty, geese too, occasionally, if someone else has a dog.  I do stay proficient with three of my rifles.

I am still a member of Ducks Unlimited, though without a dog I have not gone duck hunting in years.  Still, they do good habitat work.  

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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4 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Where everyone disagrees with you is that we all KNOW that the majority of guns are created to kill.  That was there purpose since their beginning.  They may be used for sport and target shooting now but that's not why they were created nor what it the reason for the 2nd Amendment.

The rest of your comparisons are extremely weak as they were never created to kill anything and were specifically meant for sport, hobby or collecting.  There's a huge difference.

Gasoline was never invented for the purpose of fueling cars. It was a by-product of producing kerosene. Prior to the invention of the automobile, gasoline was burned or discarded as waste. 

Odd how posters want to use the evolution of today's society to spin the 2nd Amendment in a way that works for their agenda. But, when the same evolution is used to show that guns have evolved and are not just used for killing, that's a huge difference and a ridiculous argument. 

The only difference is one is protected by the Constitution. The other can be refuted with facts. Eliminate the creation element, (after all Tide Pods were created to go in washing machines) and look at how guns are used. If all guns are used to kill people, then 300 million people should be dying every day. After all, isn't this how we view cars? Not all are used by people to get home from the bar when they are wasted, so there is no reason to ban cars?

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2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Yikes.  Brought up comparisons to Tide Pods, gasoline and once again cars.  I'm surprised you didn't bring up the golf reference again.

If you were to use a golf club to chip enough tide pods into a car's gasoline tank, you would create something like napalm.  Actually true.

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7 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Your story is quite similar to my own.  During my professional life I have been assigned guns, though not currently.  I grew up in a hunting and fishing culture.  A very large percentage of our protein came from such activities, the rest from the farm, as did much of the rest of our food.  Hunting I had a 20 and a 12 gauge, a .22, and a .306.  As my family aged I took in, inherited, the guns of family members.  I have also been gifted guns as presents and as momentos from work assignments.  Having moved from Wisconsin to Colorado, with stops elsewhere, my hunting has changed with the environment.  Though my .306 would work for elk, moose, and antelope I prefer something a bit more substantial for moose and elk, and a bit quicker, and therefore flatter, for antelope.  Many of my guns have not been shot in a dozen years or more, and likely will not be again by me, though I keep them cleaned and oiled.  I do try to stay proficient with my glocks as I still teach even though my base assignments have moved on.  If invited I will break out a shotgun, but this is infrequent, still pheasant and turkey are mighty tasty, geese too, occasionally, if someone else has a dog.  I do stay proficient with three of my rifles.

I am still a member of Ducks Unlimited, though without a dog I have not gone duck hunting in years.  Still, they do good habitat work.  

DU is great, and I still buy a raffle ticket from them every year.  I never win, but I think they are a great org.

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4 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Yikes.  Brought up comparisons to Tide Pods, gasoline and once again cars.  I'm surprised you didn't bring up the golf reference again.

I think it was you that brought up original purpose for items. I just extrapolated on your opinion. 

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13 hours ago, KCitons said:

I think it was you that brought up original purpose for items. I just extrapolated on your opinion. 

Guns are still meant to kill, just because people use them for other things doesn't change that.  Everything else you use to compare just sucks because they're not created to kill.  Something like gasoline may have been created for something different originally but it's has changed for the greater good.  Can you say that for guns?

Look, I'm a gun owner too and I don't want to ban guns but I'd be stupid to ignore the actual truth.  There's a problem and we need to work on fixing it and even though I will admit that I still don't want to ban all guns.  I use guns to target shoot and hunt but I still know what my guns were meant for, to kill.  Why try to change that fact?

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On 4/3/2018 at 6:31 PM, -fish- said:

I own probably 30 fishing reels and 25 rods.   That would make me a fishing nut.   I don't dispute that nobody really needs that many rods and reels.   But then again, owning a fishing reel doesn't have a direct correlation to the likelihood of myself of a member of my household being injured or killed by a gun.

Are they all the same type of rod and reel?

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On 4/3/2018 at 4:34 AM, KCitons said:

We already discussed owning more than 30 of something makes people idiots. Now 10 makes you a gun nut.

I'd apply the same logic to golf clubs. You only need one. 

30 of the same.  So 30 “big Bertha” drivers.  Yes, that would be idiotic.  

My statement was 30 AR15s I believe. 

Edited by Henry Ford
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13 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

I have shot golf balls flipped up in the air with a sand wedge before when I was younger

Not sure how to involve gasoline though

If you could work that out, and include a scoring system that allows for "beer fames", I believe you would have the perfect pastime.  I would like to invest in your idea.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

30 of the same.  So 30 “big Bertha” drivers.  Yes, that would be idiotic.  

My statement was 30 AR15s I believe. 

 

1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

Pretty awesome that you’re bringing up me and a statement I made weeks ago, misrepresenting it, and not tagging me in multiple threads.  You’re like our very own Kellyanne Conway. 

Because you never saw the thread I created about owning 30 or more of something? 

Why do you feel comfortable calling someone that owns 30 guns an idiot, but withheld calling any of those other posters that? Are they not idiots in your opinion? Do you only save your harsh opinions for gun owners?

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1 minute ago, KCitons said:

 

Because you never saw the thread I created about owning 30 or more of something? 

Why do you feel comfortable calling someone that owns 30 guns an idiot, but withheld calling any of those other posters that? Are they not idiots in your opinion? Do you only save your harsh opinions for gun owners?

I don't.  I feel comfortable calling someone who owns 30 AR15s an idiot.  Or, I believe, I also stated that someone who owns 30 Honda Civics with spinners displayed in a showroom an idiot.

I'm a gun owner.  I don't understand why you don't get that.

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

I don't.  I feel comfortable calling someone who owns 30 AR15s an idiot.  Or, I believe, I also stated that someone who owns 30 Honda Civics with spinners displayed in a showroom an idiot.

I'm a gun owner.  I don't understand why you don't get that.

Because I'm an idiot.

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

You own 30 AR15s?  Or 30 Honda Civics?

I don't have time right now to find the post, but it was not just those 2 things. It was anyone that owns more than 30 of something that has no purpose. The problem was, you get to decide what has purpose and what does not.

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

I don't have time right now to find the post, but it was not just those 2 things. It was anyone that owns more than 30 of something that has no purpose. The problem was, you get to decide what has purpose and what does not.

If it helps, here's the entire exchange you're mischaracterizing over and over and over again.

 
On 2/24/2018 at 2:42 PM, Henry Ford said:
On 2/24/2018 at 2:40 PM, Henry Ford said:
On 2/24/2018 at 2:38 PM, KCitons said:
On 2/24/2018 at 2:36 PM, Henry Ford said:
On 2/24/2018 at 2:35 PM, KCitons said:
On 2/24/2018 at 2:31 PM, Henry Ford said:
On 2/24/2018 at 2:28 PM, KCitons said:
On 2/24/2018 at 2:26 PM, Henry Ford said:
On 2/24/2018 at 2:08 PM, KCitons said:
On 2/24/2018 at 0:37 PM, Henry Ford said:

All this “it’s got a pistol grip” nonsense is just window dressing for trying to make some kind of dent.  Until we put a full actual category of weapons capable of vaporizing an organ with one shot on the table it’s virtually meaningless. 

And I’m not saying they need to be banned from ownership, but they should be licensed, tracked by serial number and owner to avoid straw purchases and other ridiculousness, and when some idiot buys 30 of them that guy needs to either be a dealer or be questioned.

I think its subconscious. But, the other words of your post get lost with comments like the bolded. 

One thing I notice is there is a small uptick of pro gun posters now chiming in on this issue. Probably because the anti gun posters have been fueled by emotion the past couple of weeks. Once things calm down and your able to have a conversation, maybe something can be fixed.

For the record, this is the way it is in society as well. You may think that the swelling of support is going to make this simple thing to fix. It's only because the pro gun crowd knows their is no way to have a conversation with someone that is screaming at them. 

It’s not subconscious.  I’m pro gun. I own guns.  If you buy 30 AR 15s and aren’t a dealer it’s like having a collector’s garage with 30 2015 Honda Civics with spinners on them.  You (the person collecting the Honda Civics or AR15s) are an idiot. 

Or 41,600+ posts on a fake football message board?

Is that what this is? I thought it was a community of people who talk about things.  And I’m not really sure I see the correlation between talking to people online and collecting non-rare non-special things. 

I respect Henry. So, no need for the Cavalry to come to his defense.

Your comment lumps anyone that has a hobby where they own a number (an arbitrary number that you decide) of one item, any item, as being an idiot. 

Defend it all you want, it's not an great look for you. 

Not any item. AR15s. Or Honda Civics.  

Just those two?

So if someone bought 30 SKS's you would be ok with that?

I’m okay with the AR15s, I just think it makes someone an idiot. 

I get it.  You have broad respect for people’s hobbies.  That’s cool. 

When some weirdo tells me he bought 30 identical customizable brand new weapons and wants me to come over and see them, I’m going to tell him he’s an idiot. I’m sorry for offending you. 

 

 

I think lots of people are idiots.  People who can afford an attorney but want to represent themselves in court.  Tourists caught stealing in China or North Korea.  People who don't vaccinate their kids when those kids are not medically excluded from vaccination.  It's not exclusively a "gun owner" thing at all. 

Edited by Henry Ford
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38 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

 

If it helps, here's the entire exchange you're mischaracterizing over and over and over again.

 

 

I think lots of people are idiots.  People who can afford an attorney but want to represent themselves in court.  Tourists caught stealing in China or North Korea.  People who don't vaccinate their kids when those kids are not medically excluded from vaccination.  It's not exclusively a "gun owner" thing at all. 

Wow. That's special on mobile 

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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

 

If it helps, here's the entire exchange you're mischaracterizing over and over and over again.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

I think lots of people are idiots.  People who can afford an attorney but want to represent themselves in court.  Tourists caught stealing in China or North Korea.  People who don't vaccinate their kids when those kids are not medically excluded from vaccination.  It's not exclusively a "gun owner" thing at all. 

 

:lmao:

 

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2 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

 

If it helps, here's the entire exchange you're mischaracterizing over and over and over again.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I think lots of people are idiots.  People who can afford an attorney but want to represent themselves in court.  Tourists caught stealing in China or North Korea.  People who don't vaccinate their kids when those kids are not medically excluded from vaccination.  It's not exclusively a "gun owner" thing at all. 

 

Wow

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1 hour ago, Slapdash said:

Wow

There are a small handful, very small actually, of folks here with whom I would not care to match wits, and Henry Ford is prominent on that list.  Widely read, well-informed, wicked smart, and not afraid to do his homework.  Why take him on?  Seems to me one is only inviting excoriation by his sardonic and acerbic wit.  One would have better odds in a shark tank wearing bloody seal cologne. 

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8 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

There are a small handful, very small actually, of folks here with whom I would not care to match wits, and Henry Ford is prominent on that list.  Widely read, well-informed, wicked smart, and not afraid to do his homework.  Why take him on?  Seems to me one is only inviting excoriation by his sardonic and acerbic wit.  One would have better odds in a shark tank wearing bloody seal cologne. 

You're far too kind.

One of my mentors once said to me

"Henry, there will always be someone smarter than you.  Always someone more knowledgeable than you.  Always someone more charismatic than you, and better looking, and more athletic, and there will always be someone more interesting than you.  

Good talk, I'd better get back to work."

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7 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

You're far too kind.

One of my mentors once said to me

"Henry, there will always be someone smarter than you.  Always someone more knowledgeable than you.  Always someone more charismatic than you, and better looking, and more athletic, and there will always be someone more interesting than you.  

Good talk, I'd better get back to work."

Effusive praise indeed.  I bet you were walking tall after that pep talk.

 

Me, I never had a mentor but I did once have a secretary who would give me Mentos and who would unbutton one too many buttons on her blouse when only we were in the office.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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5 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Are they all the same type of rod and reel?

 Some.   Two trolling rods with the same reels.  Two salmon rods that are close to identical, also with the same reels.  Other than that, all for different types of fishing.

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