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Example of What's Wrong with Some Companies.


KCitons

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

Probably. Could that start a problem between my son and is immediate supervisor? My son, in good faith, informed his supervisor that he has class on Monday evenings. He told him that it was discussed during his hiring process. The supervisor stated that they need him at work. If my son goes to HR, and HR talks to the supervisor, will there be tension moving forward? (snitches get stitches) If the supervisor is removed, then it's not an issue. But, I don't expect or want that to happen. 

This is where I would advise HR personnel to communicate with the rest of their team any specifics discussed during the hiring process. The candidate has done everything right. Yet, it's the new hire that is the person that is at risk for any negative from the situation. 

Yeah, you don't go behind the super's back.  So, he should go in and call a meeting with both the HR person and the super and lay it out.  It's 3 freaking nights - they should be able to help him through that.  He can't be that indispensable yet.

No way should he take the path of letting this person stand in the way of finishing out the degree.  The piece of paper has a lot of long term value.  Way more than an entry level job, particularly in this employment environment.

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3 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

If nothing else, this is a good lesson for KCiton Jr to get things in writing.

I'm not blaming him - I reckon most of us have learned this the hard way at some point (& continue to do so).

 

 

Agreed. But, as some have said, he learned the hard way that this company isn't concerned with him bettering himself. Better to learn early, instead of late.

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Just now, KCitons said:

Agreed. But, as some have said, he learned the hard way that this company isn't concerned with him bettering himself. Better to learn early, instead of late.

Well, the company may, but the pissant supervisor may not.  That's why getting HR (who made the agreement) and the super (who doesn't care) in the same room together to clarify whether this company will stand behind its promises when onboarding your son.

Either way he knows where he stands.  If HR reneges and can't get super to back down then he knows his value and the company philosophy.  If they come to some arrangement then he knows same.

Again, no way should he postpone or delay his degree.  

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15 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Agreed. But, as some have said, he learned the hard way that this company isn't concerned with him bettering himself. Better to learn early, instead of late.

Not sure I would put it all on the company as a whole as much as a hard-### supervisor.  Valmont is a big company and those guys do have to deal with a lot of crazy excuses for employees missing work.  The people with legitimate reasons end up paying for it.

I agree with others that say to not go over the supervisors head.  Would be a tough way to start a career there.

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34 minutes ago, Sand said:

Yeah, you don't go behind the super's back.  So, he should go in and call a meeting with both the HR person and the super and lay it out.  It's 3 freaking nights - they should be able to help him through that.  He can't be that indispensable yet.

No way should he take the path of letting this person stand in the way of finishing out the degree.  The piece of paper has a lot of long term value.  Way more than an entry level job, particularly in this employment environment.

The newest employee in the company, who hasn't even started working yet, isn't going to "call a meeting with both the HR person and the super".

This just seems like a miscommunication from HR. They probably don't even know there's a problem. He just needs to let them know. They'll probably fix it and apologize for the mixup, if they're actually a decent company worth working for.

Edited by VandyMan
(assuming the school can't work it out first)
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5 minutes ago, VandyMan said:

The newest employee in the company, who hasn't even started working yet, isn't going to "call a meeting with both the HR person and the super".

Yeah, maybe just get them in the same room.

Though, if a coop (i.e. newest employee) called a meeting I'd go just for the WTF factor.  

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15 minutes ago, Sand said:

Yeah, maybe just get them in the same room.

Though, if a coop (i.e. newest employee) called a meeting I'd go just for the WTF factor.  

Maybe bring it up at the next shareholders meeting? 

Too much?

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UPDATE:

He emailed his teacher and she is okay with him missing tomorrow's class. But, he has an oral presentation that he will need to give during one of the other two remaining classes. He's going to discuss again with his supervisor to see what they can work out. 

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On 10/31/2019 at 11:24 AM, KCitons said:

Sure. I just had another conversation with my wife to see if he told her anything different. He's working with school to see if he can attend a different class. (perhaps during the day). If not, then I'm going to offer to reach out to my contacts at the company or at least nudge him to go talk to them. 

This would be the worst course of action, IMO. It’s his battle. Give him advice, but let him fight it.

Like you said earlier, he’s gotta learn how the world works, and this is a great opportunity for that.

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So dude's job started. And he has 3 class periods left in English class that conflict with his work schedule. That's what these entire two pages are about? And your options, as you see it, are either 1) take the job and quit school - or - 2) attend the three remaining class meetings and blow off the job..? This is nothing. This isn't a problem. It's three classes :lol: Is there an attendance policy? Surely not in a college English class. Y'all are going to run into a hell of a lot more difficult obstacles that really matter. If this is what's tripping you up you better get ready for way, way more difficult stuff in the future. Go speak to the instructor in person and stop acting like a victim. "What's wrong with some companies..?" Dude. What companies? What does that even mean? :lol:

On 10/30/2019 at 6:26 PM, KCitons said:

I appreciate the help. Just venting. 

I guess I'm just venting as well. Sorry.

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3 hours ago, ChainsawU said:

So dude's job started. And he has 3 class periods left in English class that conflict with his work schedule. That's what these entire two pages are about? And your options, as you see it, are either 1) take the job and quit school - or - 2) attend the three remaining class meetings and blow off the job..? This is nothing. This isn't a problem. It's three classes :lol: Is there an attendance policy? Surely not in a college English class. Y'all are going to run into a hell of a lot more difficult obstacles that really matter. If this is what's tripping you up you better get ready for way, way more difficult stuff in the future. Go speak to the instructor in person and stop acting like a victim. "What's wrong with some companies..?" Dude. What companies? What does that even mean? :lol:

I guess I'm just venting as well. Sorry.

This - I apparently have multiple degrees and don't recall ever attending class...

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11 hours ago, ChainsawU said:

So dude's job started. And he has 3 class periods left in English class that conflict with his work schedule. That's what these entire two pages are about? And your options, as you see it, are either 1) take the job and quit school - or - 2) attend the three remaining class meetings and blow off the job..? This is nothing. This isn't a problem. It's three classes :lol: Is there an attendance policy? Surely not in a college English class. Y'all are going to run into a hell of a lot more difficult obstacles that really matter. If this is what's tripping you up you better get ready for way, way more difficult stuff in the future. Go speak to the instructor in person and stop acting like a victim. "What's wrong with some companies..?" Dude. What companies? What does that even mean? :lol:

I guess I'm just venting as well. Sorry.

I'm glad I started this thread so you have an outlet to vent. Sounds like you've been upset about this issue for some time. 

To answer your question, No. This isn't what these entire two pages are about. It's about a company hiring someone, and agreeing to work around a few remaining days of school, then not honoring that agreement. It's not about 3 class periods. It's about those 3 class periods culminating 2 years of hard work. It's about achieving something that's important to not only my son, but seams important to many companies that require a degree to even be considered for a job. What if he was getting married? Would they tell him that he can't have the time off for the wedding? Maybe a baby is due. "Sorry, can't take time off for the birth of your child. We need you here."  

And yes, there are attendance policies in college classes. This isn't the first one he's taken that ties attendance to grades. I'm guessing you didn't read the entire thread before responding. So, you didn't see that he has been trying to work with the teacher to miss the remaining classes. But, he has an oral presentation that is going to be difficult to work around. 

My point was that some companies, like some people, don't really care about others. Thank you for validating my point. 

 

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48 minutes ago, KCitons said:

I'm glad I started this thread so you have an outlet to vent. Sounds like you've been upset about this issue for some time. 

To answer your question, No. This isn't what these entire two pages are about. It's about a company hiring someone, and agreeing to work around a few remaining days of school, then not honoring that agreement. It's not about 3 class periods. It's about those 3 class periods culminating 2 years of hard work. It's about achieving something that's important to not only my son, but seams important to many companies that require a degree to even be considered for a job. What if he was getting married? Would they tell him that he can't have the time off for the wedding? Maybe a baby is due. "Sorry, can't take time off for the birth of your child. We need you here."  

And yes, there are attendance policies in college classes. This isn't the first one he's taken that ties attendance to grades. I'm guessing you didn't read the entire thread before responding. So, you didn't see that he has been trying to work with the teacher to miss the remaining classes. But, he has an oral presentation that is going to be difficult to work around. 

My point was that some companies, like some people, don't really care about others. Thank you for validating my point. 

 

But it is really only about three class periods.  As was mentioned, typically college classes don't require attendance.  He spent all quarter doing all the work.  How many more assignments were really left?  Did he already have enough completed to still get a passing grade and get his degree without doing anything else?  It seems like there really wouldn't be much left to do and it should be easy to communicate with the instructor to make arrangements to get the last couple of assignments or tests completed.  Granted the company should honor their agreement but it sounds like the supervisor is being a hard ###.  I would think reasoning and getting the supervisor together with the other company rep that made the agreement should also take place.  But I think it would go a lot further if you knew what was really required to finish off the class.  Maybe it's just one of the times to take the final and he can take a long lunch to finish the test or something. 

 

This whole situation has a lot of miscommunication going on...….which is generally the issue with most problems. 

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13 minutes ago, Gally said:

But it is really only about three class periods.  As was mentioned, typically college classes don't require attendance.  He spent all quarter doing all the work.  How many more assignments were really left?  Did he already have enough completed to still get a passing grade and get his degree without doing anything else?  It seems like there really wouldn't be much left to do and it should be easy to communicate with the instructor to make arrangements to get the last couple of assignments or tests completed.  Granted the company should honor their agreement but it sounds like the supervisor is being a hard ###.  I would think reasoning and getting the supervisor together with the other company rep that made the agreement should also take place.  But I think it would go a lot further if you knew what was really required to finish off the class.  Maybe it's just one of the times to take the final and he can take a long lunch to finish the test or something. 

 

This whole situation has a lot of miscommunication going on...….which is generally the issue with most problems. 

 

23 hours ago, KCitons said:

UPDATE:

He emailed his teacher and she is okay with him missing tomorrow's class. But, he has an oral presentation that he will need to give during one of the other two remaining classes. He's going to discuss again with his supervisor to see what they can work out. 

I've tried to communicate what is needed. 

I'm fully aware of both sides of this issue. As a parent, and someone that has funded part of his college education, I see the degree as being the single most important thing he has going on in his life. I don't blame the teacher for expecting him to be at one of the last two classes. It's the exact expectation I have from his new company. My son made an agreement when he signed up for the class. That agreement was to attend the class and complete the assignments as required. Now my son, and the teacher, are being asked to change for the will of the company? 

I think there are a few people here that are making assumptions about college courses and instructors without having any first hand knowledge. This isn't Harvard, or even a state university. It's a community college. The syllabus is set by the instructors. Some classes have been lax and allowed him to test out in half the time. Others required him to attend all the way through. Since it's a welding degree, would it be fair to expect the teacher to just pass him without having him complete the work? How often is a welder going to use what he's learning in an English course? I don't even see that approach as valid. It's part of his degree and I want him to be proud of what he's earned. 

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4 minutes ago, KCitons said:

I think there are a few people here that are making assumptions about college courses and instructors without having any first hand knowledge. This isn't Harvard, or even a state university. It's a community college. The syllabus is set by the instructors. Some classes have been lax and allowed him to test out in half the time. Others required him to attend all the way through. Since it's a welding degree, would it be fair to expect the teacher to just pass him without having him complete the work? How often is a welder going to use what he's learning in an English course? I don't even see that approach as valid. It's part of his degree and I want him to be proud of what he's earned. 

All classes have assignments that make up your grade.  How much is the last presentation worth?  What is his current grade in the class?  If he gets a zero what does that do to his grade and will it prevent him from getting his degree?  The point I am trying to make is that he may have done enough to get credit for the class and get his degree without doing the final presentation.  This maybe a non-issue if the presentation doesn't matter to him passing the class.  If he needs a certain grade on the presentation to pass then how long is the presentation?  Can he miss 1 hr or 2 hr of work to do the presentation?   

 

This is the kind of information that would be helpful to present to his supervisor.  If he has a specific plan in place going to the supervisor with why he has to do this to attain his degree then he has a better chance of it going his way.   If the supervisor still is being an ### about it and not letting him do it then he probably isn't worth working for and you move on to something else. 

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23 hours ago, KCitons said:

UPDATE:

He emailed his teacher and she is okay with him missing tomorrow's class. But, he has an oral presentation that he will need to give during one of the other two remaining classes.

Fine, but his oral presentation has to be on the topic of welding.

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3 minutes ago, Gally said:

All classes have assignments that make up your grade.  How much is the last presentation worth?  What is his current grade in the class?  If he gets a zero what does that do to his grade and will it prevent him from getting his degree?  The point I am trying to make is that he may have done enough to get credit for the class and get his degree without doing the final presentation.  This maybe a non-issue if the presentation doesn't matter to him passing the class.  If he needs a certain grade on the presentation to pass then how long is the presentation?  Can he miss 1 hr or 2 hr of work to do the presentation?   

 

This is the kind of information that would be helpful to present to his supervisor.  If he has a specific plan in place going to the supervisor with why he has to do this to attain his degree then he has a better chance of it going his way.   If the supervisor still is being an ### about it and not letting him do it then he probably isn't worth working for and you move on to something else. 

He's a welder. He's much better at math than he is at English. And this is English II. So, to put it nicely, he's struggled with this class. He has to do well on the final assignment to pass the class. It's entirely his fault that he is in this situation. I suggested that he take his gen ed classes, specifically his English classes, before his last quarter. I knew if he failed, regardless of having a new job, it could delay him earning his degree and would extend his time needed to finish. But, that is completely separate from making an arrangement with the company when he was hired. Which is the point of this thread. Why does the company get to alter that agreement? He's finished his training and, from what he tells me, he's done very well. That's a result of him spending time and money going to school to develop those tools.

He is working with the teacher. He may very well miss a portion of work to do the presentation. Although work and campus couldn't be further apart. Google maps lists it as 30 miles one way, not factoring rush hour traffic. 

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1 minute ago, dickey moe said:

Fine, but his oral presentation has to be on the topic of welding.

His last assignment was a cost analysis presentation to a faux board of directors on upgrading welding equipment site wide to improve company growth, improve efficiency, and lower overall costs. She asked him to pick something else. I think he landed on something to do with video game development. He hasn't asked me to hear his presentation. I expect that's coming this weekend. 

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Trump economy baby!!  I say go to HR but ultimately make the degree a priority. They need him for a reason. They’re busy. He’s in a trade. A high demand trade. They won’t fire him. Plus he’s young. What are the chances he stays at this place long term?  I’m betting zero. 
 

he’s worked hard for the degree. It’s an accomplishment, he should see it through. There will be a time when he’s older where he can tell his kids yes I have a degree. 
 

The older he gets the less likely he will finish it.

congrats!

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Son just got home from working the day shift. He attended a short meeting of his normal swing shift crew before he left. They didn't have enough work, so they were going to send one person home. :lmao:

THIS is what's wrong with some companies. 

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

Son just got home from working the day shift. He attended a short meeting of his normal swing shift crew before he left. They didn't have enough work, so they were going to send one person home. :lmao:

THIS is what's wrong with some companies. 

One of our staff picked up an overtime shift a few weeks ago on a monday.  That friday, which would have given her 48 hours for the week, they called in a PRN worker and cancelled her.

Talk about a giant F you to that employee and staff morale.

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33 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

One of our staff picked up an overtime shift a few weeks ago on a monday.  That friday, which would have given her 48 hours for the week, they called in a PRN worker and cancelled her.

Talk about a giant F you to that employee and staff morale.

If they asked her if she wanted to pick up overtime, they should have honored it. Otherwise, they should have been up front about "switching" her Friday to Monday. Maybe she would have been happy to trade days. 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Final update. Degree arrived in the mail yesterday. And with honors. (didn't know that was possible with a welding degree)

I couldn't post it in the athletic accomplishments thread. 

Check is written to pay him back for the half of tuition that he paid. We are officially done paying for college. 

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13 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Final update. Degree arrived in the mail yesterday. And with honors. (didn't know that was possible with a welding degree)

I couldn't post it in the athletic accomplishments thread. 

Check is written to pay him back for the half of tuition that he paid. We are officially done paying for college. 

Sweet.  What's the pay like as a welder?  Always think it's cool when someone can fabricate a piece they need

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1 minute ago, pantherclub said:

Sweet.  What's the pay like as a welder?  Always think it's cool when someone can fabricate a piece they need

Just under $20 an hour to start. 

He's not doing much fabricating. Basically it's production work making light poles and bases.

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

Just under $20 an hour to start. 

He's not doing much fabricating. Basically it's production work making light poles and bases.

 I got a good friend who is a welder for the city.  He became official maybe 7-8 years ago.  You can definitely make good money.   Like a lot of job though gotta start somewhere.

Still, the "low" rate of just under 20 isnt a bad floor

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10 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

 I got a good friend who is a welder for the city.  He became official maybe 7-8 years ago.  You can definitely make good money.   Like a lot of job though gotta start somewhere.

Still, the "low" rate of just under 20 isnt a bad floor

I'm happy for him. 

And I'm going to be curious to see how things shake out over the next few years. My daughter will be finishing her Biology Masters next spring. Depending on where she ends up, I think they'll be close in salaries. Except she spent nearly 5 years longer to finish school and spent considerably more. (She didn't, but we did). 

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

I'm happy for him. 

And I'm going to be curious to see how things shake out over the next few years. My daughter will be finishing her Biology Masters next spring. Depending on where she ends up, I think they'll be close in salaries. Except she spent nearly 5 years longer to finish school and spent considerably more. (She didn't, but we did). 

He is definitely in an in demand field, but the best money and best opportunities will require moving to where the work is.  Of course he can stay with the place he is in now and make a career if possible, but 100K a year for a welder is not unheard of in the least.

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7 minutes ago, The Big Guy said:

He is definitely in an in demand field, but the best money and best opportunities will require moving to where the work is.  Of course he can stay with the place he is in now and make a career if possible, but 100K a year for a welder is not unheard of in the least.

Certainly. He's going to spend a year or two working at his current company. He's talked about some organization that travels a group of welders around the country working on different projects. He heard about it from someone while he was taking classes. Not sure about the specifics or pay. But, he said they pay for all travel expenses. He was thinking that might be a cool way to see the country and work on different things while gaining more experience. 

Beyond that, he's discussed working on a pipeline. But, his understanding is that he needs to be self employed to do that. (IE own his own truck, welder, etc) 

He has zero debt, is putting 10% + matching money into 401k and adding to a Vanguard Roth that he's already been able to max fund two years while he was working. I'm trying to get him to invest a little in his 2007 Ford Focus. We bought it new and sold it to him 4 years ago for $3500. He's put roughly 30k miles on it (currently approaching 100k)  and hasn't done anything other than oil changes and brakes. A grand or two over the next year would get him another 30k out of that car. And, decent gas mileage with work being 50 miles round trip. He's still living at home without paying anything for rent (at least for a few more months). Just turned 22 last month. I think he's got the skills and the foundation to make a good life for himself. 

The only fly in the ointment, would be a girlfriend. (which he doesn't have)

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14 minutes ago, Sandeman said:

He should learn to dive and become an underwater welder. $$$$$

He's not a big fan of water/swimming. I mentioned this to him when he started his schooling. He said he'll just make as much as he can on dry land. 

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My uncle in South Carolina pretty much taught himself how to weld and now has a shop that he fabricates stuff at.  When we were there 2 weeks ago he should me the railing on his deck that he made.  It was insanely cool.   Man I wish I had the time and skill to learn to do that.

 

Congrats to your son, sounds like a trade that is going to support him and will be incredibly useful.

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30 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

My uncle in South Carolina pretty much taught himself how to weld and now has a shop that he fabricates stuff at.  When we were there 2 weeks ago he should me the railing on his deck that he made.  It was insanely cool.   Man I wish I had the time and skill to learn to do that.

 

Congrats to your son, sounds like a trade that is going to support him and will be incredibly useful.

Whether it's metal or wood, or whatever, someone that knows how to create something out of nothing is pretty cool. And it's becoming a lost art to a degree. 

I've mentioned this before, but he made a bird feeder stand for his sister as a final project for one of his classes. She was taking an ornithology class and was trying to attract birds to the backyard. He made a stand with a dozen different sized adjustable arms. Some are just shepard hooks to hold feeders, others custom fit bowls or trays. She was happy and he got an A. 

I'd love to see him do something more creative. He's always been that way. We still have boxes and boxes of legos that always played with growing up. 

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

Whether it's metal or wood, or whatever, someone that knows how to create something out of nothing is pretty cool. And it's becoming a lost art to a degree. 

I've mentioned this before, but he made a bird feeder stand for his sister as a final project for one of his classes. She was taking an ornithology class and was trying to attract birds to the backyard. He made a stand with a dozen different sized adjustable arms. Some are just shepard hooks to hold feeders, others custom fit bowls or trays. She was happy and he got an A. 

I'd love to see him do something more creative. He's always been that way. We still have boxes and boxes of legos that always played with growing up. 

That's what I am talking about 

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

Whether it's metal or wood, or whatever, someone that knows how to create something out of nothing is pretty cool. And it's becoming a lost art to a degree. 

I've mentioned this before, but he made a bird feeder stand for his sister as a final project for one of his classes. She was taking an ornithology class and was trying to attract birds to the backyard. He made a stand with a dozen different sized adjustable arms. Some are just shepard hooks to hold feeders, others custom fit bowls or trays. She was happy and he got an A. 

I'd love to see him do something more creative. He's always been that way. We still have boxes and boxes of legos that always played with growing up. 

My buddy that has been a welder for a while now loves making stuff.  Spoon tulips, skateboard doggy dishes, keg benches, and even stuff with leather and wood like LED signs, purses, wallets.  He made a day bed out of a clawfoot tub........everyone's favorite are his phone lamps where he takes old rotary phones and turns them into lamps.   He did some nice steel signs for a couple local businesses as well.  Also made some taller lamps out of old surveyor stands our other friend had left over from his city job.

I keep telling him he could easily have a lucrative business with all of it, but he prefers to just make random stuff for people and barely profit anything, if at all. 

Edited by ghostguy123
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On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 2:54 PM, KCitons said:

Certainly. He's going to spend a year or two working at his current company. He's talked about some organization that travels a group of welders around the country working on different projects. He heard about it from someone while he was taking classes. Not sure about the specifics or pay. But, he said they pay for all travel expenses. He was thinking that might be a cool way to see the country and work on different things while gaining more experience. 

Beyond that, he's discussed working on a pipeline. But, his understanding is that he needs to be self employed to do that. (IE own his own truck, welder, etc) 

He has zero debt, is putting 10% + matching money into 401k and adding to a Vanguard Roth that he's already been able to max fund two years while he was working. I'm trying to get him to invest a little in his 2007 Ford Focus. We bought it new and sold it to him 4 years ago for $3500. He's put roughly 30k miles on it (currently approaching 100k)  and hasn't done anything other than oil changes and brakes. A grand or two over the next year would get him another 30k out of that car. And, decent gas mileage with work being 50 miles round trip. He's still living at home without paying anything for rent (at least for a few more months). Just turned 22 last month. I think he's got the skills and the foundation to make a good life for himself. 

The only fly in the ointment, would be a girlfriend. (which he doesn't have)

He needs to start maxing out what he is putting into his 401K.  Don't limit it to 10%.  At this point he won't feel the loss and will get used to it.  He will be much happier on the back end if he does this. 

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