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Franchise's All-Time Lineups: Currently: Fictional All-Star Lineup


Don Quixote

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8 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

I went back and forth between Blair and Jones. Blair has him in career WAR, with a boost in defensive WAR. Jones has better offensive WAR numbers.

Machado would have needed some more years in BAL to overtake Brooks at 3B for me.

Flanagan would been next at SP, but Urban Shocker has some pretty insane numbers for the Browns in the 1920s. 

For Os fans of a certain age, Blair is the great "what if?" question. He was just entering his prime when he got hit by that pitch and was never the same afterwards, though he played several more years (including as an IF with the stinking Yankess 🤢 ). He was the best defensive CF I've ever seen.

Much is made of Buck Showalter's presence as leading to the brief Orioles resurgence earlier this decade, but Adam Jones should get equal credit. He was just a kid when he got to Baltimore, yet immediately became the leader and held every player (including himself) accountable. The Orioles hadn't had anyone like him since Frank Robinson as an on-field leader. As a player, he was good but not a natural. His defense was below average and he had Texas-sized holes as a hitter. But he played hard all the time and was the voice of a good team. He'll get a well-deserved place in the team HOF.

 

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2 hours ago, Don Quixote said:

 

Machado would have needed some more years in BAL to overtake Brooks at 3B for me

Meant to add:

I hear ya, and Brooks is Mr Oriole. But Manny played more seasons in Baltimore than Frank Robinson did. I wish he had many more. I'm glad he got paid, though.

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12 hours ago, Don Quixote said:

I would make those changes too. Berkman does not look like he qualified at DH based on my rules of going by BREF (Astros have a pretty limited set of options since they have only been in the AL for about 7 years).  Berkman certainly deserves a spot, but I think I’d go Evan Gattis based on actual positional starter at DH.

 

Yeah...I’m definitely taking a half year of Yordan Alvarez or Beltran over Gattis under your rules. Gattis could hit for power a little bit but that was about it. 

Berkman was used at DH for 8 years that he played according to baseball reference and even if he didn’t, why not just let anyone be DH on an all time team? But you’re making the rules here!

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Atlanta Braves/Milwaukee Braves/Boston Braves/Boston Bees

C Joe Torre - Runners-up are a couple of recent ones in Javy Lopez and Brian McCann.  Tempted for Lopez because of his work with that pitching staff, but I’ll give edge to Torre based on offense.

1B Freddie Freeman - I’d love to go to the past here, but he’s had a pretty good run.

2B Glenn Hubbard - I said that I might sometimes pick a player because of respect for the ‘stache. Hubbard fits there (as well as his beard).  But Braves aren’t really deep at 2B.

3B Eddie Matthews - Close between him and Chipper, but see below.

SS Rabbit Maranville - Great name for a great player.

LF Chipper Jones - Qualifies here based on 2002 and 2003, so I can get both Matthews and Chipper in the lineup.  

CF Dale Murphy - Two MVPs count for something.  Andruw Jones pretty close.

RF Hank Aaron - Easy pick.

 

SP Greg Maddux

SP Tom Glavine

SP Warren Spahn

SP Johnny Sain

SP Phil Niekro

RP John Smoltz

All of these starters jumped out pretty clearly to me here, although I was tempted to put in Old Hoss Radbourn for the laughs (his best years were with the Providence Grays, though).  Could have put Smoltz in place of Sain or Niekro (and then Kimbrel for RP). But Spahn and Sain go together like off-days followed by rain.

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The Braves are really weak at middle infield for a team that's been around for almost 150 years.  Maranville was an accumulator who didn't hit for average or power.  On the plus side he was a renowned as a solid defender, had a very long career and was famous as a colorful character of the game.  He finished second in MVP voting behind teammate Johnny Evers in 1914, when the Miracle Braves won the World Series.  Not coincidentally, voting took place after the series.  For some reason, Rabbit was still getting MVP votes in his age 40 and 41 seasons when he put up OPS+ of 60.

But at least Maranville is a Hall of Famer at shortstop.  All-time pickings at second base are mighty slim.  Glenn Hubbard had 16.9 rWAR as a Brave but didn't even make the HoF ballot when eligible.  Evers, Red Schoendienst and Davey Johnson had some good years in Boston, Milwaukee and Atlanta respectively but are more associated with other clubs.  The only other challengers to Hubbard are Tony Cuccinello who had some fine seasons for the Bees in the late 30s and Felix Millan who made three All-Star teams in the late 60s.

 

ETA:  @Bogart

Edited by Eephus
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21 minutes ago, Eephus said:

The Braves are really weak at middle infield for a team that's been around for almost 150 years.  Maranville was an accumulator who didn't hit for average or power.  On the plus side he was a renowned as a solid defender, had a very long career and was famous as a colorful character of the game.  He finished second in MVP voting behind teammate Johnny Evers in 1914, when the Miracle Braves won the World Series.  Not coincidentally, voting took place after the series.  For some reason, Rabbit was still getting MVP votes in his age 40 and 41 seasons when he put up OPS+ of 60.

But at least Maranville is a Hall of Famer at shortstop.  All-time pickings at second base are mighty slim.  Glenn Hubbard had 16.9 rWAR as a Brave but didn't even make the HoF ballot when eligible.  Evers, Red Schoendienst and Davey Johnson had some good years in Boston, Milwaukee and Atlanta respectively but are more associated with other clubs.  The only other challengers to Hubbard are Tony Cuccinello who had some fine seasons for the Bees in the late 30s and Felix Millan who made three All-Star teams in the late 60s.

Agree on both. Felix Milan was the other main one that I was thinking of for 2B. Not a lot of great options there.

A case for Rafael Furcal at SS, but Rabbit at least has the HOF plaque.

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1 hour ago, Eephus said:

The Braves are really weak at middle infield for a team that's been around for almost 150 years.  Maranville was an accumulator who didn't hit for average or power.  On the plus side he was a renowned as a solid defender, had a very long career and was famous as a colorful character of the game.  He finished second in MVP voting behind teammate Johnny Evers in 1914, when the Miracle Braves won the World Series.  Not coincidentally, voting took place after the series.  For some reason, Rabbit was still getting MVP votes in his age 40 and 41 seasons when he put up OPS+ of 60.

But at least Maranville is a Hall of Famer at shortstop.  All-time pickings at second base are mighty slim.  Glenn Hubbard had 16.9 rWAR as a Brave but didn't even make the HoF ballot when eligible.  Evers, Red Schoendienst and Davey Johnson had some good years in Boston, Milwaukee and Atlanta respectively but are more associated with other clubs.  The only other challengers to Hubbard are Tony Cuccinello who had some fine seasons for the Bees in the late 30s and Felix Millan who made three All-Star teams in the late 60s.

 

ETA:  @Bogart

:hifive: Rabbit is definitely a FBG WIS HOFer

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9 minutes ago, Kraft... said:

Hubbard was the ultimate 80's common baseball card. He had some pretty cool cards throughout the years though, including the infamous snake card :lmao: 

I must have had a dozen of his cards, as well as Ron Oester and Jack Perconte, but maybe once a year I would get  Frank White or Bobby Grich. 

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Alright, @falguy and @Northern Voice.  I think generally in line with where you guys were going...

Toronto Blue Jays

C Ernie Whitt - A career sub .250 hitter is not great, but I think he seems to fit the bill the most here.
1B Carlos Delgado  - As mentioned, a lot of ways that could go here (Olerud, EE, McGriff).  
2B Roberto Alomar - Easy pick here.
3B Josh Donaldson - Kelly Gruber had some solid years for a runner-up, but going with Donaldson’s elite stint.
SS Tony Fernandez - Another easy pick.
LF George Bell
CF Vernon Wells
RF Jose Bautista
DH Joe Carter

A few different directions that could go in the OF.  Barfield only qualifies at RF under my arbitrary rules, but I have to give the edge to Bautista.  I think good cases can be made for Lloyd Moseby and Devon White in CF.  George Bell had enough elite years to make clear LF.  I don’t think Joe Carter’s overall numbers merit DH over Olerud, Molitor, or EE, but he’s got that signature moment that counts  (if I threw out my arbitrary rule that he had to principally DH for at least one year, I'd slot Barfield there).

SP Dave Stieb
SP Jimmy Key
SP Roy Halladay
SP Roger Clemens
SP Pat Hentgen
RP Tom Henke

Only two years for Clemens, but two Cy’s give him a spot.  I think Dave Stieb deserved a bit more of a HOF look than he got -- he’s probably just Hall of Very Good, but definitely better than a “one year and out” guy.
 

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20 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

Alright, @falguy and @Northern Voice.  I think generally in line with where you guys were going...

Toronto Blue Jays

C Ernie Whitt - A career sub .250 hitter is not great, but I think he seems to fit the bill the most here.
1B Carlos Delgado  - As mentioned, a lot of ways that could go here (Olerud, EE, McGriff).  
2B Roberto Alomar - Easy pick here.
3B Josh Donaldson - Kelly Gruber had some solid years for a runner-up, but going with Donaldson’s elite stint.
SS Tony Fernandez - Another easy pick.
LF George Bell
CF Vernon Wells
RF Jose Bautista
DH Joe Carter

A few different directions that could go in the OF.  Barfield only qualifies at RF under my arbitrary rules, but I have to give the edge to Bautista.  I think good cases can be made for Lloyd Moseby and Devon White in CF.  George Bell had enough elite years to make clear LF.  I don’t think Joe Carter’s overall numbers merit DH over Olerud, Molitor, or EE, but he’s got that signature moment that counts  (if I threw out my arbitrary rule that he had to principally DH for at least one year, I'd slot Barfield there).

SP Dave Stieb
SP Jimmy Key
SP Roy Halladay
SP Roger Clemens
SP Pat Hentgen
RP Tom Henke

Only two years for Clemens, but two Cy’s give him a spot.  I think Dave Stieb deserved a bit more of a HOF look than he got -- he’s probably just Hall of Very Good, but definitely better than a “one year and out” guy.
 

Yeah not much to quibble with here, Barfield is likely a top 3 BJs all time OF but Bautista is #1 so if they're sharing a position that's obvious. I don't know if you've been listing the SPs in order but Halladay is the staff ace based on length and peak.

I'd like to fill out the bullpen with personal favourites Todd Stottlemyre (swingman), Paul Quantill (MRP), Casey Janssen (MRP), Scott Downs (LHRP), Brett Cecil (LHRP) and Duane Ward (Setup man)

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Pretty nice pitching staff. :thumbup:

Given Donaldson's short stint as a Jay maybe put Jose at third and Barfield in right but that's just me.  Maybe he doesn't qualify either, he played 48 games at 3B in 2010.

Pretty sad batch of Catcher's over the years.

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3 hours ago, falguy said:

Pretty nice pitching staff. :thumbup:

Given Donaldson's short stint as a Jay maybe put Jose at third and Barfield in right but that's just me.  Maybe he doesn't qualify either, he played 48 games at 3B in 2010.

Pretty sad batch of Catcher's over the years.

Yeah, Bautista did not play enough to qualify at 3B based on my arbitrary guidelines.

Catcher is pretty sad.  Pretty limited options to pick from. Backup catcher would probably be Pat Borders, Darrin Fletcher, or Russell Martin.

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12 hours ago, Don Quixote said:
On 12/3/2019 at 9:43 PM, Eephus said:

The Cubs are the only challengers

Hornsby, Sandberg, Johnny Evers, Billy Herman

Cards are probably a step behind, but not far off.  Hornsby (again), Frankie Frisch, and Red Schoendienst.  Tom Herr had some good years too.  

The Astros claim on Nellie Fox's career is kind of weak.  He spent his age 36 and 37 seasons playing for the Colt 45s and the Astros.  He was replaced by a 21 year old Joe Morgan in the second season.

But Bill Doran had a much better career than I remembered.  He accumulated 32.9 rWAR which is nearly ten more than Tom Herr.

If we're talking top three franchise second basemen instead of two, the Tigers enter the leaderboard with Charlie Gehringer, Lou Whitaker and Dick McAuliffe.  McAuliffe was unfortunate that his prime years fell in the mid-to-late 60s when offense was depressed.

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Boston Red Sox

C Carlton Fisk - Jason Varitek has him in years, but that’s about it.
1B Jimmie Foxx - Might make the A’s list too. Similar to Varitek, Mo Vaughn has Foxx beat in number of years, but Foxx was consistently better.
2B Bobby Doerr - Close between him and Dustin Pedroia, but I'll give edge to Doerr. 
3B Wade Boggs - Seems an easy pick.
SS Joe Cronin - Serving as player/manager. Nomar with an honorable mention.
LF Ted Williams - Clear pick, despite Sox being loaded in LF.
CF Carl Yastrzemski - Played CF in 1964, so I can get both Williams and Yaz in the lineup. Sad to leave out Tris Speaker, but Sox are loaded.
RF Dwight Evans - Probably Mookie Betts in a few years, but I’ll still give the edge to Evans. Harry Hooper an honorable mention.
DH David Ortiz - I thought about Jim Rice because he was shut out in LF, but Big Papi is the Sox DH.

SP Roger Clemens
SP Cy Young
SP Luis Tiant
SP Pedro Martinez
SP Lefty Grove
RP Jonathan Papelbon

I may be missing someone, but starters all stand out.  I'd like to go elsewhere on RP, but Pap seems to fit the bit more than anyone that I can think of.
 

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Minnesota Twins (not going to include any Senators  - would love to have the Big Train,  just doesn't seem right)

C Joe Mauer

1B Kent Hrbek (probably a nostalgia pick over Morneau)

2B Rod Carew (Could put Knoblauch here and move Carew to 1B, but I don't want to)

3B Gary Gaetti (Underrated career - hit 360 HR with gold glove D)

SS Roy Smalley (toughest spot, could argue for Gagne or Zoilo)

LF Harmon Killebrew (only putting a glove on Harmon to get Morneau at DH)

CF Kirby Puckett

RF Tony Oliva

DH Justin Morneau (could put Allison in LF and Harmon at DH)

SP Bert Blyleven

SP Johan Santana

SP Frank Viola

SP Jim Kaat

SP Brad Radke

RP Joe Nathan

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1 hour ago, Hov34 said:

Minnesota Twins (not going to include any Senators  - would love to have the Big Train,  just doesn't seem right)

C Joe Mauer

1B Kent Hrbek (probably a nostalgia pick over Morneau)

2B Rod Carew (Could put Knoblauch here and move Carew to 1B, but I don't want to)

3B Gary Gaetti (Underrated career - hit 360 HR with gold glove D)

SS Roy Smalley (toughest spot, could argue for Gagne or Zoilo)

LF Harmon Killebrew (only putting a glove on Harmon to get Morneau at DH)

CF Kirby Puckett

RF Tony Oliva

DH Justin Morneau (could put Allison in LF and Harmon at DH)

SP Bert Blyleven

SP Johan Santana

SP Frank Viola

SP Jim Kaat

SP Brad Radke

RP Joe Nathan

Great list!  I have a Twins/Senators list that I started on.  Definitely a lot of overlap and pretty much in line with yours, but I just had some Senators sprinkled in.  I'll compare in a little bit, and see where I had different.

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23 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

Great list!  I have a Twins/Senators list that I started on.  Definitely a lot of overlap and pretty much in line with yours, but I just had some Senators sprinkled in.  I'll compare in a little bit, and see where I had different.

Walter Johnson belongs in this thread

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2 hours ago, Hov34 said:

Minnesota Twins (not going to include any Senators  - would love to have the Big Train,  just doesn't seem right)

C Joe Mauer

1B Kent Hrbek (probably a nostalgia pick over Morneau)

2B Rod Carew (Could put Knoblauch here and move Carew to 1B, but I don't want to)

3B Gary Gaetti (Underrated career - hit 360 HR with gold glove D)

SS Roy Smalley (toughest spot, could argue for Gagne or Zoilo)

LF Harmon Killebrew (only putting a glove on Harmon to get Morneau at DH)

CF Kirby Puckett

RF Tony Oliva

DH Justin Morneau (could put Allison in LF and Harmon at DH)

SP Bert Blyleven

SP Johan Santana

SP Frank Viola

SP Jim Kaat

SP Brad Radke

RP Joe Nathan

Here's what I had in my unpolished draft.  From Sens, I added Joe Cronin, Goose Goslin, and Sam Rice to the bats, and Big Train to SP.  Went Aguilera over Nathan at RP (maybe b/c, as I mentioned earlier, I watched a lot of Mets in the 1980s, so some residual feelings for him (and Viola)).  Gaetti and Killebrew is a close combo to my Killebrew and Goslin, but I gave the nod to Goslin as a HOFer over Gaetti.

C Joe Mauer

1B Kent Hrbek - Mickey Vernon and Joe Judge had some good runs in the Senators’ days, but Herbie was one of my favorites.

2B Rod Carew - Clear pick, but Knoblauch worth an honorable mention.

3B Harmon Killebrew - Qualifies at 1B, 3B, and LF. I’ll put him here.

SS Joe Cronin - Senators great from the 20s-30s.

LF Goose Goslin - Back to the Senators again.  They have not had a lot in LF in my lifetime.

CF Kirby Puckett - Easy pick.

RF Sam Rice - Another HOFer for the Senators from the 1920s.  I’d have gone with Oliva if he did not qualify at DH and allowing both in lineup.

DH Tony Oliva - Some other decent options like Molitor and Winfield at the back-end of their careers, and Ortiz at the front-end of his, but I’ll slot Oliva in here.

 

SP Walter Johnson

SP Jim Kaat

SP Johan Santana

SP Bert Blyleven

SP Frank Viola

RP Rick Aguilera

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Alright, @Eephus, I have a couple of Bay Area up next.  I’ll start with my A’s team and then post Giants....

Oakland A’s/Philadelphia A’s/Kansas City A’s

C Mickey Cochrane - Best modern player that I think could go here is Terry Steinbach.

1B Jimmie Foxx - McGwire and Giambi a couple of modern alternatives, but I’ll go juice-free.  Makes my list both as a Red Sox and an A.

2B Eddie Collins - Dominant run with the A’s.

3B Home Run Baker - Not trying to purposely go old school, but A’s are not making it easy up to this point (and they had lots of early stars of the game). Modern options could be Sal Bando, Carney Lansford, or Eric Chavez.

SS Bert Campaneris - Miguel Tejada is close, but I’ll give to edge to Campaneris based on defense and speed on the paths.

LF Rickey Henderson

CF Al Simmons

RF Reggie Jackson

DH Jose Canseco

Simmons mostly played LF, but had a couple of years in CF to qualify here.  Pretty strong OF. A’s don’t have a whole of great options at DH, but Canseco qualified there a year; so, I guess I’m not juice-free after all.

 

SP Lefty Grove

SP Dave Stewart

SP Catfish Hunter

SP Eddie Plank

SP Vida Blue

RP Dennis Eckersley

Some others worth an honorable mention (like Bob Welch), but these pitchers seemed pretty easy to pick out.

Edited by Don Quixote
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Alright, here's my Giants team.

San Francisco Giants/New York Giants

C Buster Posey

1B Willie McCovey - He seems an easy pick, but would have been more difficult if Johnny Mize did not lose a couple of years during WWII. Bill Terry out here too.

2B Frankie Frisch - Larry Doyle and Jeff Kent deserve a mention here too.  Frisch had some great years before going to the Cardinals.

3B Matt Williams - I may be missing someone, but Williams seems like the pick to me.  Maybe Freddie Lindstrom? Jim Ray Hart and Hank Thompson seem a step below.   

SS Travis Jackson - HOFer who spent his entire career with the Giants

LF Barry Bonds

CF Willie Mays

RF Mel Ott

OF does not get much easier than that.  Monte Irvin a “could have been” if he did not lose years due to segregation.  Ott also qualifies at 3B. I could have moved them there, and made room in RF for Bobby Bonds or Felipe Alou.

 

SP Christy Mathewson

SP Carl Hubbell

SP Juan Marichal

SP Madison Bumgarner

SP Gaylord Perry

RP Hoyt Wilhelm

These all stood out, but a lot of great history.  Most of the other franchise pitching WAR leaders are from the 1800s-1910s.

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2 hours ago, Don Quixote said:

SS Travis Jackson - HOFer who spent his entire career with the Giants

Jackson was an accumulator.  I'm probably the only one here old enough to have seen George Davis play back in the nineties.  He played ten superior seasons with the Giants spanning the period between the 60'6" mound and the NL/AL wars.  He was the best SS in the history of the game until Honus Wagner came along.

 

2 hours ago, Don Quixote said:

RP Hoyt Wilhelm

Wilhelm was part of the same bullpen with another right hander Marv Grissom who is also worthy of all-time Giant consideration.  RP career stats are flawed when comparing relievers across eras.  WAR is heavily IP dependent and SVs are a modern phenomenon.

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If you take San Francisco Giants only to square things up a little with the expansion teams, Posey, McCovey, Williams, Bonds and Mays stay in the lineup.  Kent and Bobby Bonds are the easy selections at 2B and RF.  SS comes down to Chris Speier or Brandon Crawford.  They're a natural platoon but I'd have to give the nod to Crawford.

We need two SP and a RP to complete the staff.  Robb Nen had a nice five year run before giving his arm to the club.  The starters are two of Jason Schmidt, Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum.  I'll take the too short peaks of Schmidt and Lincecum over the steadier Cain.  The ballpark was always electric when Timmy got the ball.

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11 hours ago, Eephus said:

Jackson was an accumulator.  I'm probably the only one here old enough to have seen George Davis play back in the nineties.  He played ten superior seasons with the Giants spanning the period between the 60'6" mound and the NL/AL wars.  He was the best SS in the history of the game until Honus Wagner came along.

 

Wilhelm was part of the same bullpen with another right hander Marv Grissom who is also worthy of all-time Giant consideration.  RP career stats are flawed when comparing relievers across eras.  WAR is heavily IP dependent and SVs are a modern phenomenon.

Davis is a pretty good call at SS -- the more that I read about him, the more that I think he should have been my call over Jackson.

I was just looking up Grissom.  Pretty interesting career.  Rare for a pitcher to not really find success before they turn 35, and then become one of the best relievers in the game.

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Los Angeles/Brooklyn Dodgers

C Roy Campanella - If Piazza stuck around, it may be close, but Roy gets the nod easily here.

1B Gil Hodges - Steve Garvey deserves a mention, but going with Gil Hodges here.

2B Jackie Robinson - Easy pick.

3B Ron Cey - First non-Boys of Summer. Could have put Garvey here, but I’ll go with Cey.

SS Pee Wee Reese - Maury Wills and Bill Russell (not that one) would be solid options too.

LF Zach Wheat - HOFer who played 18 years for the Dodgers in the 1910s/20s.  Maybe more of a compiler, but leads the Dodgers in so many categories (games, hits, singles, doubles, triples), hard to leave him off here. Dusty Baker probably would go here in players of a more recent vintage.

CF Duke Snider - Some good options in CF, including Willie Davis and Matt Kemp, but Snider towers over the others.

RF Carl Furillo - Underrated piece of the 50s teams.  Dixie Walker put up some good numbers, but that was during the talent-depleted World War II years and he was a racist; so, screw that guy.

 

SP Sandy Koufax

SP Don Drysdale

SP Don Sutton

SP Dazzy Vance

SP Clayton Kershaw

RP Kenley Jansen

Really tough rotation here.  I wanted to include Fernando Valenzuela, Orel Hershiser, Bob Welch, or Don Newcombe, but no room for them here.  Tough to compare relievers across eras -- Clem Labine was the ace reliever from the 50s teams, and would probably be my #2.  Jim Brewer and Ron Perranoski a couple of players who put up some strong numbers in the 60s. 

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7 hours ago, Don Quixote said:

3B Ron Cey - First non-Boys of Summer. Could have put Garvey here, but I’ll go with Cey.

Cey was a fine two-way contributor for many years.  He averaged over 600 PA/YR over his ten seasons as a Dodgers regular.  The infield of Garvey, Lopes, Cey and Russell was remarkable for its longevity and consistency.

Adrian Beltre had his career year for LA but it was in his walk year.  He signed for 5/$64M as a 26 year old free agent which is interesting more for the deal's duration than its AAV.

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9 hours ago, Don Quixote said:

LF Zach Wheat - HOFer who played 18 years for the Dodgers in the 1910s/20s.  Maybe more of a compiler, but leads the Dodgers in so many categories (games, hits, singles, doubles, triples), hard to leave him off here. Dusty Baker probably would go here in players of a more recent vintage.

CF Duke Snider - Some good options in CF, including Willie Davis and Matt Kemp, but Snider towers over the others.

RF Carl Furillo - Underrated piece of the 50s teams.  Dixie Walker put up some good numbers, but that was during the talent-depleted World War II years and he was a racist; so, screw that guy.

Cody Bellinger is one of a handful of current position players with a legitimate chance to eventually make the all-time team of a three century ballclub.  Some guys already have the credentials (Pujols, Freeman, possibly Cabrera as a 3B) while Betts and Lindor seem destined for the Manny Machado route.  Lindor also has Lou Boudreau in his path which isn't as tough as Aaron Judge having to topple the Bambino.

Bellinger and Ronald Acuna have a long trail ahead of them but have good starts.  Bryce Harper just rebooted with the Phillies and will need a late career surge.  I hope but doubt the Oaklands can hold onto Matt Chapman.  If you disregard pre-1893 baseball, you lose Cap Anson and give Anthony Rizzo's a good chance as well.

I'm probably missing somebody.

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2 hours ago, Eephus said:

Cody Bellinger is one of a handful of current position players with a legitimate chance to eventually make the all-time team of a three century ballclub.  Some guys already have the credentials (Pujols, Freeman, possibly Cabrera as a 3B) while Betts and Lindor seem destined for the Manny Machado route.  Lindor also has Lou Boudreau in his path which isn't as tough as Aaron Judge having to topple the Bambino.

Bellinger and Ronald Acuna have a long trail ahead of them but have good starts.  Bryce Harper just rebooted with the Phillies and will need a late career surge.  I hope but doubt the Oaklands can hold onto Matt Chapman.  If you disregard pre-1893 baseball, you lose Cap Anson and give Anthony Rizzo's a good chance as well.

I'm probably missing somebody.

Yeah, there are not a whole lot for teams with that much history.  I had Posey on the Giants for another one.  And Votto probably makes the Reds, as I can probably do Votto at 1B and Perez at 3B.

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55 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

Yeah, there are not a whole lot for teams with that much history.  I had Posey on the Giants for another one.  And Votto probably makes the Reds, as I can probably do Votto at 1B and Perez at 3B.

Can't believe I missed Buster. :bag:

The Reds lineup depends on where you play Pete Rose.

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Los Angeles Angels

I’m going to post this one to get the taste of creating it out of my mouth, and will try to move on quickly as possible.  

C Bob Boone - They got him at tail end of his career, but a lot of mediocrity.

1B Rod Carew - Another one they got on the tail end of career, but not really many other options here — but I suppose I’d take him over Pujols in a similar situation. Wally Joyner with an honorable mention.

2B Bobby Grich - Made my O’s list too.

3B Doug DeCinces - Another one with not a lot. Maybe Troy Glaus as an alternative.  It should not take long for Rendon to be the pick here.

SS Jim Fregosi - I guess he’s mostly known now for going to the Mets for Nolan Ryan (and his ability to keep turning up as a manager, despite a proven ability to get fired 3-4 years into every job), but he was pretty good before then.

LF Darin Erstad - Solid, but a lot of “meh” here.

CF Mike Trout - Already the franchise career WAR leader by a significant margin. Jim Edmonds a pretty good backup for the roster.

RF Vladimir Guerrero - Tim Salmon probably the 2nd option here.  A case could be made for Salmon over Vlad based on Angels' career.

DH Reggie Jackson - Yet another one that the Angels got on the tail-end of their career. Although the only time that I really associate him with the Angels is when I watch Naked Gun.

 

SP Nolan Ryan

SP Chuck Finley

SP Frank Tanana

SP Jered Weaver

SP Mike Witt

RP Troy Percival

Much like the rest of the roster, not finding a whole lot of depth to pick from.

Edited by Don Quixote
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On 12/14/2019 at 6:17 AM, Don Quixote said:

Alright, @Eephus, I have a couple of Bay Area up next.  I’ll start with my A’s team and then post Giants....

Oakland A’s/Philadelphia A’s/Kansas City A’s

C Mickey Cochrane - Best modern player that I think could go here is Terry Steinbach.

1B Jimmie Foxx - McGwire and Giambi a couple of modern alternatives, but I’ll go juice-free.  Makes my list both as a Red Sox and an A.

2B Eddie Collins - Dominant run with the A’s.

3B Home Run Baker - Not trying to purposely go old school, but A’s are not making it easy up to this point (and they had lots of early stars of the game). Modern options could be Sal Bando, Carney Lansford, or Eric Chavez.

SS Bert Campaneris - Miguel Tejada is close, but I’ll give to edge to Campaneris based on defense and speed on the paths.

LF Rickey Henderson

CF Al Simmons

RF Reggie Jackson

DH Jose Canseco

Simmons mostly played LF, but had a couple of years in CF to qualify here.  Pretty strong OF. A’s don’t have a whole of great options at DH, but Canseco qualified there a year; so, I guess I’m not juice-free after all.

 

SP Lefty Grove

SP Dave Stewart

SP Catfish Hunter

SP Eddie Plank

SP Vida Blue

RP Dennis Eckersley

Some others worth an honorable mention (like Bob Welch), but these pitchers seemed pretty easy to pick out.

Mr. Quixote - you are very good at this :thumbup:

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1 hour ago, Long Ball Larry said:

i think i would make garret anderson the angels' DH for the longevity with the franchise.

Like most teams, the Anaheims have shuffled a ton of guys through the DH slot over the years.  If you look at their franchise page, there's less year-to-year longevity at principal DH than at any other position.  Brian Downing and Chili Davis held down the position for several years.  Don Baylor looks like he missed some time due to injury or he would have had a long run as well.  But more recently, it's just a list of old slow guys playing out their contract.

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On 12/10/2019 at 4:05 PM, Don Quixote said:

DH Tony Oliva - Some other decent options like Molitor and Winfield at the back-end of their careers, and Ortiz at the front-end of his, but I’ll slot Oliva in here.

The trade precipitated by the Larry Plateau(tm)

 

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Holidays delayed me from posting, but here’s my Cubs squad...

Chicago Cubs

C Gabby Hartnett - HOFer and MVP from the 20s/30s, who also started at C longer than anybody for the Cubs.  Hard to go with someone else.

1B Cap Anson - Tough one. Frank Chance another HOFer, and Mark Grace and Anthony Rizzo from recent history. I can’t leave out Anson though.  

2B Ryne Sandberg - I feel like I need to go away from pre-WW2.  Billy Herman and Johnny Evers both worthy here too.

3B Ron Santo - Runner-up would probably be Stan Hack, who had some good years in the 30s/40s.

SS Ernie Banks - Played some 1B too, but his best years were at SS.  Joe Tinker worth a mention (as is Bill Dahlen) — wanted to get in at least one of Tinker, Evers, or Chance, but Cubs have a lot of great infielders.

LF Billy Williams - Seems like an easy pick.

CF Hack Wilson - Not many years in Chicago, but they were great and CF in Chicago is a bit of a wasteland otherwise.

RF Sammy Sosa - Don’t want to go with a juicer, but it really seems like him or post-peak Dawson, or King Kelly from the 1880s.

 

SP Fergie Jenkins

SP Mordecai ‘Three Finger’ Brown

SP Rick Reuschel

SP Greg Maddux

SP Pete Alexander

RP Lee Smith - Smith/Sutter is pretty close.

Fifth starter for the Cubs is a bit tougher than I thought it would be, but maybe that is why they went so long without a World Series.  I put Alexander on my Phillies’ roster, but just as great with the Cubs, although not there as long. But I otherwise found myself thinking about Rick Sutcliffe, and some players from the 1800s in Clark Griffith and John Clarkson (Hippo Vaughn might be worth too over Alexander or Reuschel).  

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7 hours ago, Don Quixote said:

CF Hack Wilson - Not many years in Chicago, but they were great and CF in Chicago is a bit of a wasteland otherwise.

Wilson's single season mark of 191 RBIs is one of those records that seems breakable but has stood for 89 years.  No hitter this decade got within 50 of Wilson.  Runs per game were plentiful in the early 30s; even the steroid-era offenses were scoring a half a run per game less than in the year of Wilson's record. 

I think the balance of modern offenses also has something to do with it.  The 1930 Cubs only had two players with more than 15 HRs.  Their offense was built around getting guys on base for Wilson, Hartnett and Kiki Cuyler to knock in.  RBI opportunities tend to be more evenly distributed these days.

 

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