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Back of the line, Doug, back of tbe effin line

@RapSheet: After speaking with two people close to former #Eagles coach Doug Pederson, it sounds like this is what it boiled down: Pederson was sick of people telling him what to do.

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1 minute ago, The Noid said:

Betting this was more mutual than it appears. Lurie wanted big changes to the staff. Doug wanted to stay loyal to his guys and have more independence. Doug saw there are a bunch of head coaching opportunities where his SB resume will likely afford him that opportunity elsewhere if Lurie wouldn't, so he stood his ground.  

I don’t know. Doug seems very genuine and seems like he cares too much at times. I just think overly loyal is him and when he refused to budge after a week he was fired. 

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Just now, JaxBill said:

Back of the line, Doug, back of tbe effin line

@RapSheet: After speaking with two people close to former #Eagles coach Doug Pederson, it sounds like this is what it boiled down: Pederson was sick of people telling him what to do.

If any coach needed to be saved from his loyalties it was Doug. 

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2 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Im sure after the first meeting they anticipated being at this point. I’d like to change gears and get a defensive guy like Saleh if possible but won’t complain if it’s a Brady type as well. We just needed a change and a heavy emphasis on coaching up these players. 

I can’t believe Doug actually was going to just promote everyone on this staff though after what’s been happening here. It’s unbelievable 
 

 

The second Wentz said what he said though people this was the only option. You have a star QB who knows he’s surrounded by morons to the point he wanted out. That’s a toxic environment and you gotta act quickly. 

Yep the bolded must have just been him giving the bird and saying see you later. Promoting that @&&! show from this season would be stupid. 

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1 minute ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I don’t know. Doug seems very genuine and seems like he cares too much at times. I just think overly loyal is him and when he refused to budge after a week he was fired. 

Agreed, but I think he knew that was the potential outcome and was expecting/wanting it if that was going to be the case (re: if I can't be loyal to my guys, I don't want to be here.)

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A coach should be able to pick his own coaches. It really started off on the wrong foot in 2016 when Schwartz was hired before Doug. Then every year he lost guys from his staff either through them moving on or the front office telling him to fire a guy. The coaches that were fired deserved to be to be fair but I understand where Doug is coming from.

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3 minutes ago, JaxBill said:

Back of the line, Doug, back of tbe effin line

@RapSheet: After speaking with two people close to former #Eagles coach Doug Pederson, it sounds like this is what it boiled down: Pederson was sick of people telling him what to do.

I could see this I guess. He brought us our first Super Bowl and will forever be a Philly legend but it seems the celebration has carried over into the following seasons and the urgency just not there top to bottom. 

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2 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Yep the bolded must have just been him giving the bird and saying see you later. Promoting that @&&! show from this season would be stupid. 

Yep. Self evaluation isn’t a skill everyone has. He won a SB and seemed to take the “f-it, it’s my way or I’m out” approach. Being loyal is all well and good but he was chasing rainbows in his actions and words toward the end. “Past years success are building blocks for the future” etc. His was of running things is just not the smart way to go. 

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6 minutes ago, The Noid said:

Betting this was more mutual than it appears. Lurie wanted big changes to the staff. Doug wanted to stay loyal to his guys and have more independence. Doug saw there are a bunch of head coaching opportunities where his SB resume will likely afford him that opportunity elsewhere if Lurie wouldn't, so he stood his ground.  

He didn't exactly pull a George Costanza and drag the Lombardi around the parking lot of Nova Care, but he definitely wasn't trying NOT to get fired.

If Kotite, Rhodes and Kelly immediately got head coaching jobs, Doug should have no problem getting hired. 

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7 minutes ago, The Noid said:

Betting this was more mutual than it appears. Lurie wanted big changes to the staff. Doug wanted to stay loyal to his guys and have more independence. Doug saw there are a bunch of head coaching opportunities where his SB resume will likely afford him that opportunity elsewhere if Lurie wouldn't, so he stood his ground.  

He didn't exactly pull a George Costanza and drag the Lombardi around the parking lot of Nova Care, but he definitely wasn't trying NOT to get fired.

HAHAHAHHAHAHA.  Epic.

But I think you're right here... there were lots of reports about him not wanting to be here.  I think to ANY coach (besides maybe Bill), all this drama and chaos has worn on him.  The guy pulls his struggling qb in a meaningless week 17 game and gets trashed by people.  I think that whole situation probably put him over the edge where he was perfectly fine with a fresh start elsewhere with a media that won't roast him like ours does.

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2 minutes ago, Insein said:

A coach should be able to pick his own coaches. It really started off on the wrong foot in 2016 when Schwartz was hired before Doug. Then every year he lost guys from his staff either through them moving on or the front office telling him to fire a guy. The coaches that were fired deserved to be to be fair but I understand where Doug is coming from.

I do and don’t. See the above regarding self evaluation. At some point you have to look in the mirror and own your mistakes and adjust. He wanted to go back to the same well over and over and over. 

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1 minute ago, Insein said:
3 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Brian Daboll has done a great job with Josh Allen....just saying. 

Would be my first pick. 

And now we (and Jeff Lurie) get to confront the harsh reality that our "top picks" for head coach are going to look at our organization, roster, cap situation, media environment, etc. compared to the other jobs out there and say, "Nah, I'm good."

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1 minute ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I do and don’t. See the above regarding self evaluation. At some point you have to look in the mirror and own your mistakes and adjust. He wanted to go back to the same well over and over and over. 

Of course. Doug has to be able to come to these conclusions himself and make the changes himself. The reason Lurie and Howie had to step in was to save him from himself. They didn't do that to Andy or even Chip. They did their own hiring and firing.

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14 minutes ago, The Noid said:

Betting this was more mutual than it appears. Lurie wanted big changes to the staff. Doug wanted to stay loyal to his guys and have more independence. Doug saw there are a bunch of head coaching opportunities where his SB resume will likely afford him that opportunity elsewhere if Lurie wouldn't, so he stood his ground.  

He didn't exactly pull a George Costanza and drag the Lombardi around the parking lot of Nova Care, but he definitely wasn't trying NOT to get fired.

Doug certainly has his flaws, but does some things really well.  I’m very curious to see how much interest he gets for HC vacancies coming up.

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4 minutes ago, Tom Hagen said:

If Kotite, Rhodes and Kelly immediately got head coaching jobs, Doug should have no problem getting hired. 


And there’s good openings now. I can see the Jets naming a run and giving him the freedom he wants. I can also see the talent in LA or Houston being appealing as well

 

4 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Brian Daboll has done a great job with Josh Allen....just saying. 

 

2 minutes ago, Insein said:

Would be my first pick. 

Yeah he has to be high on the list but he’s bounced around a LOT too. I’d have to read more up on him. 

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1 minute ago, The Noid said:

And now we (and Jeff Lurie) get to confront the harsh reality that our "top picks" for head coach are going to look at our organization, roster, cap situation, media environment, etc. compared to the other jobs out there and say, "Nah, I'm good."

To which Jeffrey then says "How's 5 years $50m sound?"

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11 minutes ago, JaxBill said:

Back of the line, Doug, back of tbe effin line

@RapSheet: After speaking with two people close to former #Eagles coach Doug Pederson, it sounds like this is what it boiled down: Pederson was sick of people telling him what to do.

Could definitely see this.  This has always seemed like Doug was just a pawn for Lurie and Howie. Doug always told the media "This was MY decision", when I think in fact it wasn't.  Part of him being a professional and taking the blame on himself, and part of him probably wanting people to know that this was HIS team (probably over compensating since this was never his team).

End of the day, Lurie/Howie don't trust Doug and I am sure they are interfering with his decisions.  Whether they should or not is a whole other issue.

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1 minute ago, The Noid said:

And now we (and Jeff Lurie) get to confront the harsh reality that our "top picks" for head coach are going to look at our organization, roster, cap situation, media environment, etc. compared to the other jobs out there and say, "Nah, I'm good."

Yeah this will be interesting. I’m very curious now on what the word is around the league with Howie. 4 coaches now under him and I can’t imagine they have good things to say about him lol

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2 minutes ago, The Noid said:

And now we (and Jeff Lurie) get to confront the harsh reality that our "top picks" for head coach are going to look at our organization, roster, cap situation, media environment, etc. compared to the other jobs out there and say, "Nah, I'm good."

Possibly, use our #1 pick on Smith to give Wentz a weapon and I think we are right in it again in a weak division. Lurie isn’t afraid to pay coaches either. 

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10 minutes ago, Insein said:

A coach should be able to pick his own coaches. It really started off on the wrong foot in 2016 when Schwartz was hired before Doug. Then every year he lost guys from his staff either through them moving on or the front office telling him to fire a guy. The coaches that were fired deserved to be to be fair but I understand where Doug is coming from.

I expect this dynamic to give pause to anyone considering this job.  Would love to know how some of those discussions go with somebody who has plenty of options.

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Chargers are certainly attractive with its roster, but outside of them Atlanta looks good on paper but have potentially the same or worse cap issues as philly. probably not hard to get someone in with a long leash for this coming season. we have good pieces to build around imo.

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We need a more unified culture where our owner and GM don't have to over-step and tell the coach what to do. 

It seems Howie likes having a pushover coach though.... Chip wasn't and they faught.  Doug was for a while and it worked for Howie/Lurie.... now that he's sticking up for himself, he's out the door.

Will Lurie/Howie give any coach freedom?  Any potential candidate is likely going to call Doug and ask him what it was like working for them, and that probably won't go so well.

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5 minutes ago, The Noid said:

And now we (and Jeff Lurie) get to confront the harsh reality that our "top picks" for head coach are going to look at our organization, roster, cap situation, media environment, etc. compared to the other jobs out there and say, "Nah, I'm good."

While I have mixed feelings about this, I don’t think it’s a mistake.  There is no world however, where Doug deserves to lose his job, but Howie deserves to keep his.

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2 minutes ago, Ash said:

I expect this dynamic to give pause to anyone considering this job.  Would love to know how some of those discussions go with somebody who has plenty of options.

 

3 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Yeah this will be interesting. I’m very curious now on what the word is around the league with Howie. 4 coaches now under him and I can’t imagine they have good things to say about him lol

Yep.  Doug will be getting the first phone call from any candidates, and will be asked "How is working for Lurie/Howie"?

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5 minutes ago, Ash said:

Doug certainly has his flaws, but does some things really well.  I’m very curious to see how much interest he gets for HC vacancies coming up.

he would seem to be a top 3 candidate for a team with a young/rookie QB. can't argue he does a good job working with his players and the locker room. 

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Just now, Deamon said:

We need a more unified culture where our owner and GM don't have to over-step and tell the coach what to do. 

It seems Howie likes having a pushover coach though.... Chip wasn't and they faught.  Doug was for a while and it worked for Howie/Lurie.... now that he's sticking up for himself, he's out the door.

Will Lurie/Howie give any coach freedom?  Any potential candidate is likely going to call Doug and ask him what it was like working for them, and that probably won't go so well.

It’s arguable that ever coach under Howie tried to fire themselves. I’m sure Andy did when he moved Juan to DC, I KNOW Chip did and this all reads like Doug did as well. 

The only way Howie can still be around is if they agree to take a different approach with the next HC. 

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5 minutes ago, Insein said:

To which Jeffrey then says "How's 5 years $50m sound?"

Yep, this is why getting / keeping a top QB is more important.  You can always give a coach $$ or control to get them on board.  It’s hard to get a top tier QB outside the first 10 or so picks though.

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1 minute ago, Deamon said:

 

Yep.  Doug will be getting the first phone call from any candidates, and will be asked "How is working for Lurie/Howie"?

Things like this are common knowledge. All these guys talk as do agents and other coaches. I just wish I knew exactly what they said lol. 

It’s going to come down to the interview basically and what kind of assurances the candidate is given. I’m sure Howie involvement will be discussed at length 

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i really hope this doesn't mean Carson is def back. And really hope they don't go into camp next year with Carson as auto QB1 and Hurts QB2. will be a disaster. 

Maybe Carson can get some of his play back, but i don't know if he ill be able to. Salary cap is a mess, i don't think they will be able to fix their OL, and could make Carson look even worse. 

Wish i didn't care about this team and could root for some other NFL team every Sunday, team feels like it is due for some ugly years

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21 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

The second Wentz said what he said though people this was the only option. You have a star QB who knows he’s surrounded by morons to the point he wanted out. That’s a toxic environment and you gotta act quickly. 

Wentz isn’t a star. Maybe he gets back to average. I always had my doubts because their o line was insanely good during his good half year. Like 4 of the top 10 linemen on pff were eagles. That’s hides a lot if faults. 

I can understand the change but they fired a coach that won a super bowl with Foles and they ran Reid out of town. I’m expecting a long rebuild, looks like a mess and will be tough to hire a good coach with the Wentz mess going on. Good luck.

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2 minutes ago, modogg said:

i really hope this doesn't mean Carson is def back. And really hope they don't go into camp next year with Carson as auto QB1 and Hurts QB2. will be a disaster. 

Maybe Carson can get some of his play back, but i don't know if he ill be able to. Salary cap is a mess, i don't think they will be able to fix their OL, and could make Carson look even worse. 

Wish i didn't care about this team and could root for some other NFL team every Sunday, team feels like it is due for some ugly years

New coach won’t be married to any of them. There will be a completion, Hurts will lose and be dealt. 

Fixing Wentz is the only way we get back to winning. 

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3 minutes ago, modogg said:

i really hope this doesn't mean Carson is def back. And really hope they don't go into camp next year with Carson as auto QB1 and Hurts QB2. will be a disaster. 

Maybe Carson can get some of his play back, but i don't know if he ill be able to. Salary cap is a mess, i don't think they will be able to fix their OL, and could make Carson look even worse. 

Wish i didn't care about this team and could root for some other NFL team every Sunday, team feels like it is due for some ugly years

To me, this is one of the biggest reasons to let Doug go.  I think Wentz is worth another season with different and (hopefully) better coaching before you write him off.

Since I don’t believe Hurts is more than a backup, this team is i a big hole if they can’t turn Wentz around.

Even at #6 you’re looking at QB #3 or worse if someone trades up between pick 3 and 5, or if Atlanta picks a QB.  The draft might not necessarily give us a replacement even picking at 6.  

Trading up (again) would cost picks and compound the problem with lack of young talent on this team.

Getting Wentz back to performing at a Top 10 level is the best option the team has, IMO.

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1 minute ago, voiceofunreason said:

Wentz isn’t a star. Maybe he gets back to average. I always had my doubts because their o line was insanely good during his good half year. Like 4 of the top 10 linemen on pff were eagles. That’s hides a lot if faults. 

I can understand the change but they fired a coach that won a super bowl with Foles and they ran Reid out of town. I’m expecting a long rebuild, looks like a mess and will be tough to hire a good coach with the Wentz mess going on. Good luck.

He’s played at an above average level and football is a team game. You don’t see any star QB’s on crap teams for that reason alone. QB’s need OL and weapons. We need that as well and it’s not a shock that when the team deteriorated around Wentz he also looked worse and worse. They go hand in hand. 

These same takes were hot for Allen, Herbert, etc etc. good coaches bring the best out their players with an adequate scheme. Wentz has done a LOT of good and is young enough to work with. 

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6 minutes ago, Insein said:

So do we think Lurie goes Carlo  on Howie. Make him think he's comfortable and then choke him out on the way to the airport. 

I will donate to this gofundme. 

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Just now, Bigboy10182000 said:

New coach won’t be married to any of them. There will be a completion, Hurts will lose and be dealt. 

Fixing Wentz is the only way we get back to winning. 

what would you say the chance is for Carson to be fixed, let's say at '18 level. '17 is almost out, but looking at games throughout this season, I am feeling like it is less than 50% we get much from Carson. So many balls sailed high, and he was ranked 32nd for QBs throwing 5 yards and less. I am not sure how that is even possible. 

Also would love to know what coach would actually want to come here. Situation isn't as enticing as it was a few year's ago, and i know they brought on Doug as like option #3 when McAdoo and somebody else i can't remember didn't want to take the job. 

Not sure i am confident in Howie if he is part of this decision picking a quality coach

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1 minute ago, Ash said:

To me, this is one of the biggest reasons to let Doug go.  I think Wentz is worth another season with different and (hopefully) better coaching before you write him off.

Since I don’t believe Hurts is more than a backup, this team is i a big hole if they can’t turn Wentz around.

Even at #6 you’re looking at QB #3 or worse if someone trades up between pick 3 and 5, or if Atlanta picks a QB.  The draft might not necessarily give us a replacement even picking at 6.  

Trading up (again) would cost picks and compound the problem with lack of young talent on this team.

Getting Wentz back to performing at a Top 10 level is the best option the team has, IMO.

and if i had to guess, i would put odds at 33% Carson can return to top form. Who knows, but seeing all of the asst. coaches leaving i don't think Carson is easy to work with. Who knows what to believe with the rumor mill, but a lot of buzz has been that Carson is somewhat "uncoachable" and is not open to feedback. Could be totally wrong, but if there is a hint that it is the case, they will need a coach who can take the right approach to reach him

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8 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

Wentz isn’t a star. Maybe he gets back to average. I always had my doubts because their o line was insanely good during his good half year. Like 4 of the top 10 linemen on pff were eagles. That’s hides a lot if faults. 

...

Wentz has played like a star though, and consistently been above average, even if you’re a hard judge.  If you look at good/great QB around the league, I’d argue that almost all of them have both good protection and good weapons.  Watson is the only one who has done well without either.  I don’t think that’s sustainable though.

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1 minute ago, modogg said:

what would you say the chance is for Carson to be fixed, let's say at '18 level. '17 is almost out, but looking at games throughout this season, I am feeling like it is less than 50% we get much from Carson. So many balls sailed high, and he was ranked 32nd for QBs throwing 5 yards and less. I am not sure how that is even possible. 

Also would love to know what coach would actually want to come here. Situation isn't as enticing as it was a few year's ago, and i know they brought on Doug as like option #3 when McAdoo and somebody else i can't remember didn't want to take the job. 

Not sure i am confident in Howie if he is part of this decision picking a quality coach

With a competent staff, with actual experiance, I can see him playing at 2018 level easily. 

Mailata, Seamolu, Kelce, Brooks/Herbig and Lane is a great start if healthy. 

Sanders is elite IMO but used in one of the stupidest systems ever

Biggest key is growth and scheme for the WR’s. Can Reagor, Fulgham, Hightower and Watkins improve? Who do we get at 6?

TE should be Goedert and that solid. 

SOOOO MANY things were broken last year. 

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2 minutes ago, modogg said:

and if i had to guess, i would put odds at 33% Carson can return to top form. Who knows, but seeing all of the asst. coaches leaving i don't think Carson is easy to work with. Who knows what to believe with the rumor mill, but a lot of buzz has been that Carson is somewhat "uncoachable" and is not open to feedback. Could be totally wrong, but if there is a hint that it is the case, they will need a coach who can take the right approach to reach him

I agree that this is probably the biggest question.  Maybe everyone (including his buddy Press Taylor) getting fired will be a wake up call.

The new coach should have the right to pull the pin on Wentz after 2021 though, if he’s not getting what he wants from him.

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18 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:
21 minutes ago, Insein said:

To which Jeffrey then says "How's 5 years $50m sound?"

I would see that.  An aspiring HC could see Wentz as a top QB along with Sanders, a decent OL and a high pick and think they can work with that. 

There's a big difference between an aspiring head coach and a top-level candidate. We'll see how it bears out, but I seriously doubt we get any looks from the top-level candidates (Daboll, Smith, and maybe even Bieniemy and Brady) other than to help them drive up the offer they get from where they really want to go. 

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16 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

Wentz isn’t a star. Maybe he gets back to average. I always had my doubts because their o line was insanely good during his good half year. Like 4 of the top 10 linemen on pff were eagles. That’s hides a lot if faults. 

I can understand the change but they fired a coach that won a super bowl with Foles and they ran Reid out of town. I’m expecting a long rebuild, looks like a mess and will be tough to hire a good coach with the Wentz mess going on. Good luck.

I don't really agree with a single thing in here. 

Yes they fired a coach that won a super bowl with Foles, but he needed to be fired... have you been following any of this mess?  Doug was a bad OC.

Andy was in no  way "ran out of town".  Anyone with knowledge on the situation knows it was just time.  Awful year, Andy was stale, we needed a change, Andy needed a change.  No chance we win a SB under Andy.... it was probably the best mutual split of a coach/team in NFL history.

Long rebuilds don't happen in the NFL usually.  I agree it will be a 'long rebuild' but that is relative and usually means like 2-3 years in today's NFL.  If Carson gets back to form, we can be okay.

Your avatar unfortunately doesn't seem accurate.

 

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1 minute ago, The Noid said:

There's a big difference between an aspiring head coach and a top-level candidate. We'll see how it bears out, but I seriously doubt we get any looks from the top-level candidates (Daboll, Smith, and maybe even Bieniemy and Brady) other than to help them drive up the offer they get from where they really want to go. 

With that logic a team like the Jets and Jags have zero chance at getting a HC with any kind of name but that won't be the case. We won a SB 3 years ago and that will definitely be in people's minds.  Generations of losing by those other teams (you can include LA in that) will also stick.  I think that all is like 10%.  The majority will look at location, money and environment as it relates to the game. If you can live close to home, getting a great check coaching in a place that loves the game that's huge.

And I don't want ANYONE from KC.  

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wont miss him at all.  thanks for the title though

very happy with this move as a serious shake up was required.  and we got it.  

lurie is a great owner

 

Edited by need2know
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2 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I think anyone from KC right now is fool's gold.  Mahomes and Andy are the ones you want there

Ya he seems like he may be Doug 2.0. But I'm not sure much about him tbh. 

Either way I want young blood in here. Bills oc would be perfect. Or a defensive hc with a great oc like the USC oc. 

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  • The Noid changed the title to 2021 Philadelphia Eagles - Dallas week! Dear Michael Irvin, the Vet's turfcrete sends its regards.
  • The Noid changed the title to 2021 Philadelphia Eagles - Coaches and players thoroughly overmatched and embarrassed in ugly loss.

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