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Mass Shootings Thread (2 Viewers)

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And how many did Rudy hire during his years?  I’ll hang up and listen.
Not counting the 3,500 hired at least in part as part of the "Biden's 1994 Crime Bill",  160.  (supporting link.)

But I'll give you all 3660 since that wasn't really the point.  Heck I'll even assume that consolidating the other 7,000 or so transit and housing officers under one authority was probably a good idea also if they were all doing the same types of jobs. 

 
Was New York better or worse after his 8 years?
My answer is "it depends". 

For me, and privileged white male who has a steady, good paying job and is a tourist?  Likely better. 

For a young black man in Brooklyn getting hassled by the cops every day?  Likely worse.

For a homeless person it might be better, it might be worse.

Furthermore, violating civil rights of historically marginalized groups to provide a better living experience for the privileged class is a very slippery slope.  Rudy and his policies were wrong in area, regardless of outcome.

 
But many people would force me to get a vaccine.
No one is forcing you to get a vaccine.  Not the federal, state, or local government.  Not even private businesses are forcing you to do anything.  Private companies may require you to be vaccinated to engage in business with them.  That's not forcing you to do anything.

Now if public schools require vaccination of children to enroll in the school, that's a government mandate.

 
My answer is "it depends". 

For me, and privileged white male who has a steady, good paying job and is a tourist?  Likely better. 

For a young black man in Brooklyn getting hassled by the cops every day?  Likely worse.

For a homeless person it might be better, it might be worse.

Furthermore, violating civil rights of historically marginalized groups to provide a better living experience for the privileged class is a very slippery slope.  Rudy and his policies were wrong in area, regardless of outcome.
Well then you and your other privileged buddies must be loving NY today.  Just make sure to wear your Kevlar.

 
2018.  And that is a measure of percentage of increase , not actual violent crime rates.  
So?   The question was whether the root causes of a large percentage of crime, particularly violent crime were different in urban areas and rural areas?     That is are the causes in rural areas something different than  poverty, job loss, lack of opportunities, drugs, etc.?   Are they?  

Or, is just that the urban dwellers are more likely to be "animalistic" than those settling in rural areas?   Or that the "culture" makes them violent rather than reflect the violence?  Or whatever?

 
No one is forcing you to get a vaccine.  Not the federal, state, or local government.  Not even private businesses are forcing you to do anything.  Private companies may require you to be vaccinated to engage in business with them.  That's not forcing you to do anything.

Now if public schools require vaccination of children to enroll in the school, that's a government mandate.
right now there is just peer pressure, bullying, name calling and removal of perks and privilege's to force people to get vaccine is real .... then free items are given, lottery tickets etc even money to bribe people to doing things in a way they didn't want to

forcing someone can be holding them down and it can also be immense pressures in other ways - but you know that as do I

 
So?   The question was whether the root causes of a large percentage of crime, particularly violent crime were different in urban areas and rural areas?     That is are the causes in rural areas something different than  poverty, job loss, lack of opportunities, drugs, etc.?   Are they?  

Or, is just that the urban dwellers are more likely to be "animalistic" than those settling in rural areas?   Or that the "culture" makes them violent rather than reflect the violence?  Or whatever?
its a combination of it all

We live in the USA - never forget that. When I was young and poor and literally homeless (though I never really thought of it as such) ..... I made a decision. I could have stayed where I was, with really nothing or I could leave. I left - and I found a job, then another and made a career of it

Anytime someone is unhappy with where they are at - leave. Nothing makes a person stay in a downtrodden community except their own choices. Some might have it harder than others based on life happenings or their own choices/decisions but in the end, we can ALL choose

That's the beautiful part of this country

 
right now there is just peer pressure, bullying, name calling and removal of perks and privilege's to force people to get vaccine is real .... then free items are given, lottery tickets etc even money to bribe people to doing things in a way they didn't want to

forcing someone can be holding them down and it can also be immense pressures in other ways - but you know that as do I
Bullying?  You've gone a bit overboard with this even for you - which is saying something.  

I guess personal choice, responsibility, and consequences don't apply here when the outcome isn't what you want? 

 
its a combination of it all

We live in the USA - never forget that. When I was young and poor and literally homeless (though I never really thought of it as such) ..... I made a decision. I could have stayed where I was, with really nothing or I could leave. I left - and I found a job, then another and made a career of it

Anytime someone is unhappy with where they are at - leave. Nothing makes a person stay in a downtrodden community except their own choices. Some might have it harder than others based on life happenings or their own choices/decisions but in the end, we can ALL choose

That's the beautiful part of this country
Sure, but "they should be more like me" is not really a very good argument on why crime exists.  And a horrible argument in expressing the beauty of this great nation.  You cannot be focused inward on yourself with these issues but need to look outwards.   These end results of poverty and joblessness happen where there is a break down in the "maximizing individual utility" ("if everyone looked out for themselves") philosophy.  

 
Bullying?  You've gone a bit overboard with this even for you - which is saying something.  

I guess personal choice, responsibility, and consequences don't apply here when the outcome isn't what you want? 
it is the very definition of bullying

putting pressures on people to do what you want them to do  = bullying

 
This seems like a bad idea

Beginning Sept. 1, House Bill 1927 will allow anyone 21 years old or older who can legally possess a firearm in Texas to carry a handgun in public without a permit. Current state law allows residents 21 or older to carry a handgun only after completing the required training and criminal background check to obtain a license to carry.
https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/state/2021/06/16/permitless-carry-texas-gov-greg-abbott-sign-bill-allow-handguns/7438186002/

 
Sure, but "they should be more like me" is not really a very good argument on why crime exists.  And a horrible argument in expressing the beauty of this great nation.  You cannot be focused inward on yourself with these issues but need to look outwards.   These end results of poverty and joblessness happen where there is a break down in the "maximizing individual utility" ("if everyone looked out for themselves") philosophy.  
why ?

poverty and joblessness - why would you want people to have jobs and prosper as citizen ?  isn't that being " more like me " ?

of course it is - but we're not talking a religious belief or following a sports team or choosing what sexual choices we identify with, we're talking being productive citizens and is that too much to ask? be productive, don't be violent and mean and a criminal and unproductive? 

I suppose a person can ... however, that inevitably leads to impacting everyone around them as well .... and we can't force people to do many things, but society DOES force people to not behave in certain ways don't they ? 

if we agree that everyone needs to NOT be A, B and C ( like violent, mean and criminal) then they really also have to be X, Y and Z ( like employed, productive, happy) ....... how do we get people to ABC if they don't want to be XYZ ?

 
I doubt it'll make any impact at all 

wild wild west aint going to happen - and while I don't want people to know I have a gun on me, I don't know that it'd matter much and it won't happen most places

ranchers and farmers etc carrying them on their side vs concealed is what I can see the majority being 

 
Because people are different.  They have different

but we're not talking a religious belief or following a sports team or choosing what sexual choices we
but they also have different talents, different risk tolerance, different circumstances, different personalities.   There are lots of things that make us different such that asking someone to be "just like you"  to solve their problems, to be prosperous, to be productive is not a viable option.  And my usage of "viable" is masking the ugliness of the very suggestion.  

 
Because people are different.  They have different
but at the same time we don't live in a caste society ... almost everyone has the ability to greatly succeed. Examples abound, they're everywhere, nationwide

a person chooses their choices - and while everyone has different paths, the choices made still matter

for some reason, inner cities have much higher % of people making bad choices - its not for lack of choices, they simply choose the bad ones. Why? I submit its cultural, its accepted to be poor, on drugs, in gangs and all that comes with "lifestyles" of said culture

they don't want to change and so, they don't

 
for some reason, inner cities have much higher % of people making bad choices - its not for lack of choices, they simply choose the bad ones. Why? I submit its cultural, its accepted to be poor, on drugs, in gangs and all that comes with "lifestyles" of said culture
I submit you are wrong.  People in inner cities largely make the best of the bad choices presented them within their capabilities.  And its societies fault, our fault that their are not enough pathways to better choices.  That the culture is a reflection of this reality and it help create feedback loops but it is not the root cause of this.  And of course this cultural blame game falls apart when these cities are really small rural towns.

 
it is the very definition of bullying

putting pressures on people to do what you want them to do  = bullying
abuse and mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger, more powerful, etc. 

prone to or characterized by overbearing mistreatment and domination of others

A store or company giving something for free to people who are vaccinated fit these definitions for you?   I hope you get your panties in a wad if similar happens for people who voted or other such harmful activities a business chooses to do.  Don't get me started on those veteran and teacher discounts! 

 
I doubt it'll make any impact at all 

wild wild west aint going to happen - and while I don't want people to know I have a gun on me, I don't know that it'd matter much and it won't happen most places

ranchers and farmers etc carrying them on their side vs concealed is what I can see the majority being 
I hope & pray you are correct

 
I submit you are wrong.  People in inner cities largely make the best of the bad choices presented them within their capabilities.  And its societies fault, our fault that their are not enough pathways to better choices.  That the culture is a reflection of this reality and it help create feedback loops but it is not the root cause of this.  And of course this cultural blame game falls apart when these cities are really small rural towns.
Rubbish.  People like you aren’t doing these people any favors by perpetuating this victim mentality.  Culture matters.  It matters more than anything.  That’s why in the same city you’ll see Asian immigrants working their tails off and in one generation their kids are going to an Ivy League School.

 
Rubbish.  People like you aren’t doing these people any favors by perpetuating this victim mentality.  Culture matters.  It matters more than anything.  That’s why in the same city you’ll see Asian immigrants working their tails off and in one generation their kids are going to an Ivy League School.
Now it's culture?  I thought it was liberal leadership?

 
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What is it in Miami?
I don't know Miami, I know Chicago since I've lived closeby all my life.  I guarantee there will be 50+ shootings in the city this weekend - but the left will blame everyone BUT the shooters.

 
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I don't know Miami, I know Chicago since I've lived closeby all my life.  I guarantee there will be 50+ shootings in the city this weekend - but the left will blame everyone BUT the shooters.
I think most people on the left would blame the shooters and would want them to be arrested and prosecuted. 

 
Lol look at the response I get about Chicago murders.  fish and others blame everyone but them.
There's only so many times that people have to post they would address the problem from multiple angles.   I don't think that should be required of every post, but evidently it is for some of you if you still think people are only saying to address the problem by looking at guns.  

 
I submit you are wrong.  People in inner cities largely make the best of the bad choices presented them within their capabilities.  And its societies fault, our fault that their are not enough pathways to better choices.  That the culture is a reflection of this reality and it help create feedback loops but it is not the root cause of this.  And of course this cultural blame game falls apart when these cities are really small rural towns.
then how do people escape inner cities ?

many do - they choose to

BTW that link is an opinion article - the fact remains inner cities/urban ARE more violent

 
abuse and mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger, more powerful, etc. 

prone to or characterized by overbearing mistreatment and domination of others

A store or company giving something for free to people who are vaccinated fit these definitions for you?   I hope you get your panties in a wad if similar happens for people who voted or other such harmful activities a business chooses to do.  Don't get me started on those veteran and teacher discounts! 


if we gave prizes to people, and had them wear certain identifiers (like masks) and took away privileges and perks etc to be straight vs gay ... that wouldn't be bullying would it ? 

its like that 

 
I don't know Miami, I know Chicago since I've lived closeby all my life.  I guarantee there will be 50+ shootings in the city this weekend - but the left will blame everyone BUT the shooters.
this conversation started with the claim that gun violence in cities was the result of liberal leadership.  sorry if you can't follow along.  

 
this conversation started with the claim that gun violence in cities was the result of liberal leadership.  sorry if you can't follow along.  
You're going to need more than one example.  And the example you gave is a loose one at best.

Please don't report me for responding to you.

 
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Fix the single motherhood rate, and you've mostly fixed the inner cities.

It's a simple equation. 
we agree that's a huge problem 

but that's a culture thing, sugar momma's and getting Govt money to have kids when unmarried ... my buddy's daughter intentionally stayed single through her pregnancy so the State would pay for it ....... then, afterwards, she got married

millions do it, millions stay unmarried because of the Govt $$$ being sent

its a culture 

 
if we gave prizes to people, and had them wear certain identifiers (like masks) and took away privileges and perks etc to be straight vs gay ... that wouldn't be bullying would it ? 

its like that 
I see, so you are claiming that anti-vac people are a protected class like homosexuals are?  come on, man.  

 
this conversation started with the claim that gun violence in cities was the result of liberal leadership.  sorry if you can't follow along.  
I gave you links to support that the worst cities have been Democratic led for decades

If Democrats were going to fix violence in cities, they'd have done it. 

 
X2

I posted a link with top violent cities and you look up how many decades Democrats have ran those cities
Yep, I a saw that.  That's why I said he's going to need to provide more than one example.  1 does not make it equal.

Not sure why he responded the way he did.  :shrug:

 
I think most people on the left would blame the shooters and would want them to be arrested and prosecuted. 
then why isn't it called violence instead of "gun" violence ?

why doesn't the Fed Govt ever prosecute people lying on background check forms? why do we have multiple example of the FBI knowing about shooters before hand and doing nothing ?

 
this conversation started with the claim that gun violence in cities was the result of liberal leadership.  sorry if you can't follow along.  
Let me help you out - both can be true.  Failed Liberal “leadership” over many years contributes to the culture of violence, dependence and victimhood.  And deep down you know it’s true.

 
then how do people escape inner cities ?

many do - they choose to

BTW that link is an opinion article - the fact remains inner cities/urban ARE more violent
Statement like these are just opinions?

In Iowa, the overall violent crime rate rose by 3 percent between 2006 and 2016, but shot up by 50 percent in communities with fewer than 10,000 residents. Violent crime rates have doubled in rural counties in West Virginia over the past couple of decades, while tripling in New Hampshire.
Seems to me they are either statements of fact or lies.   Sure some opinions can be formed around them, but they are not true for those that believe and false for those that believe otherwise.

Now why should people need to escape inner cities at all?    

 
Let me help you out - both can be true.  Failed Liberal “leadership” over many years contributes to the culture of violence, dependence and victimhood.  And deep down you know it’s true.
Well, on top of that we keep getting the :bs:  that the "gun laws aren't working!  We need more gun laws!".

Y'know, you can technically claim that the "gun laws don't work" when they're not being enforced and that seems to be what they're banking on to fool the rubes.  How about we start enforcing the ones we have and see how that pans out first?

 
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